Section 101
All-Star
Napkin Nights Tissue.
Harry Giles thread back on track ;)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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These guys are big men. They are both around 6'10". I cannot see them guarding quick small forwards at all.
The minute either play SF will be the day there growth is stunted and crap goes the Tyreke Evans way
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
There is something to be said for the Bucks-style "Okay Giannis, you're playing point guard now" style of player development where a team will give a player more than he could possibly handle in order to boost his development but I agree that the two rooks on the Kings probably aren't the right players to do that for.
It legit looked like he was on some PED's (in a good way not saying he's using roids) with how explosive he was, watching him during SL up to that game he was struggling to dunk around the rim lacked any explosion and I didn't think he could be a role man to the rim but if he keeps showing what he did last night he's going to be a force with the skills hes got.
Bagley and Giles at there best aren’t even on the same level athletically as Giannis. It’s plain foolish to try them at SF
kingsfan101
Starter
Agree, but if both play the 4, how do you play them both heavy minutes?
Bagley plays as a athletic undersized 5
The Hammer
All-Star
That he does. His defensive rebounding is fantastic as well, especially for a rookie. He can get up for blocks, and is coming along defensively as well. No reason Bagley can't play the "5" when Giles is on the floor. Bagley can also swing over to the 4 and play easily with WCS or Koufos. When you have have that much raw talent, it's easy to make it work.
The Hammer
All-Star
I'd love to see a starting line up of:
Bagley
Giles
Bogi
Buddy
Fox
And honestly I think that's what it's going to be going forward. There will be an odd man out, because when I look at Giles I simply do not see an NBA bench player. I can squint and see that with Willie, but he's got bigger goals, so we'll just have to see how it plays out.
That lineup right there, the way it's looking right now, has absolutely astronomical potential. And let's list ages: 20, 20, 24, 24, 20. We're talking ten plus solid years if this team gels right.
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Unfortunately it won’t be 10 plus years in 3-4 years Fox/Buddy will be on max deals Bogie will get his fair amount. Giles will be maxed out if he’s we’re i think he’ll be in 2-3 years (like 15-8-4). And Bagley will get near max on potential alone we ain’t paying everyone but this will be a good problem to have
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
because the NBA's gotten smaller, you could get away with playing Bagley and (give or take a couple of years) Giles at the 5 now with minimal problems save for the games against the Gasols and Goberts of the world.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I agree it's a dumb idea, though I do think Bagley is enough of an athletic freak (seriously people, his second jump is absolutely incredible) that he could eventually defend the SF position.
In the modern NBA, having the numbered players is kind of going out the window. With the new emphasis on the 3 and the Kings ' running style they are going to end up playing 2 bigs and 3 smalls a lot of the time. Fox, Buddy and Bogdan plus 2 big guys. Giles and Bagley are probably the two big guys of the future. Call them both 4/5s. There could be times with 3 guards, a SF and one big guy.
If our center is soft in side and gets 4 rebounds, we are better off playing someone else.
If our center is soft in side and gets 4 rebounds, we are better off playing someone else.
King Baller
All-Star
IMO its unfair to not include the fact that trading the Big Fella allowed the Kings to retain their own pick that season. If it had dropped out of the top ten it would have been sent to Chicago. It is not too big of a stretch to state that with Cousins the Kings would have been just good enough to not be in the top ten but still in the lottery and that pick would belong to the Bulls. As it was Vlade got lucky in the draft lottery and then chose Fox
King Baller
All-Star
I agree Bagley is not a 3. Have some forgotten how Giannis looked as a Rookie? I suggest that as a Veteran in his SIXTH season it is easy to forget he averaged less than 7 points a game on slightly less than 25 minutes a game--> https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html
What Bagley will become is not evident now is all I am saying
TaxMan
Starter
I think we sometimes get too caught up in worrying about how pieces will fit in 5 years. Let’s just keep loading up on talent and things will sort itself out over the long haul. Of course you don’t want a roster full of lumbering centers, but these guys are both above average athletes with high skill levels and desire.
IMO its unfair to not include the fact that trading the Big Fella allowed the Kings to retain their own pick that season. If it had dropped out of the top ten it would have been sent to Chicago. It is not too big of a stretch to state that with Cousins the Kings would have been just good enough to not be in the top ten but still in the lottery and that pick would belong to the Bulls. As it was Vlade got lucky in the draft lottery and then chose Fox
I understand the argument here, but it's kind of iffy. Without taking into account strength of schedule before/after the trade, at the time of the trade we were on pace to win 34.5 games. We went on to win 32 games, so we really only lost an additional 2-3 games from what we would have expected. The 11 seed that year was Charlotte at 36 wins, and the 12 seed was Detroit at 37 wins, so we would have had to actually put on a bit of a streak relative to our current record to fall out of the top ten and lose the pick. And, for the record, we did lose to Charlotte in that stretch (didn't play Detroit) so had we won that game it would have been a double-whammy. But even without the trade, it sure looks like the odds were our pick would have landed somewhere in the 8-10 range and knowing that we were also high on Mitchell, we likely would have had him had we not jumped up into Fox range.
regularkingsfan
G-League
This lineup would have a lot of trouble defending the pick and roll. Besides Fox, every other position does not have enough length to make it difficult for lob passes or needle thread passes.
On paper, this is an offensive lineup. Ideally, you would play this lineup when you need to generate points in short amount of time. Otherwise it is defensively challenged to be a starting lineup.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I really don't think we know what Bagley or Giles are in terms of their position. Give it at least a couple of years and then maybe we'll find out. The only thing I'm fairly certain of is that Giles just isn't a 5 in the long term. He's probably never going to be in the top 10 of rebounding centers, nor will he be able to guard physical big centers. And, even though he has good defensive instincts, he's never going to scare people as a shot blocker. Even now I cringe a little when he's asked to guard big 5s because of his injury history and his relative lack of strength. If you look at his build he's just never going to have the girth or strength necessary for the center position, imo. He's a 4, or in the long term, a 3.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
reminds me of the time when the Kings wanted to try Tyreke at the 3 or how about Jason Thompson at the 3? worked out great, no?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Just because a player is tall doesn't mean he's incapable of playing SF. Kevin Durant is a SF and he's 6'11". Gallinari is 6'10" and plays SF. It's a matter of skills. If your athletic enough to guard SF's, and you can handle the ball and shoot the three, there's no reason you can't play that position. I mean if a 6'5"player can play there, why can't a 6'11"player play there?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Were not talking about Skal are we????? No one suggested that Skal could play SF. And I'm not saying that either Bagley or Giles will ever play the position, but I'am suggesting that Bagley, because of his lateral quickness and athleticism, might one day be skilled enough to play the SF position.
Correct on all accounts.
The NBA is going smaller and quicker with more outside shooting. Bagley is very quick for his size but let's face it he doesn't have the ball handling skills, outside shooting, and lateral quickness to guard all the quick/outside guys that are playing the 3 (many of whom are 2's playing the 3). Plus you want guys like Bagley closer to the basket anyways for rebounding and shot blocking. Giles does have more SF like skills on the offensive end but defensively he can't guard most SF's.
A future lineup (next year) of Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Giles, Bagley is perfect for today's NBA. It's not too big or too small and has just the right amount of shooting with a lot of speed and both bigs are fairly skilled with Giles also being a playmaker that can create too.
Bagley is never going to play the 3 in today's NBA just not going to happen.
Section 101
All-Star
Uh tyreke has been playing the 3 since he was traded.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have no memory of JT ever playing the SF position. If he did, it was a very bad idea. JT played center in college, and never truly developed the skills to even be a good solid PF. Tyreke's problem was his jumpshot. I never saw him as a SF but I did see him as a SG if he could become a consistent outside shooter. He finally has, and now is a legit SG in the league. Only took him about 6 or so years to get there though.
If we truly want to play this game, I can point out many players that changed positions in the NBA successfully, and I can point out many who couldn't. It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned because it comes down to the individual. What one player does has nothing to do with a different player. Klay Thompson played SF in college but plays SG in the NBA. Originally they tried to make Durant into a SG, but once switched to SF, he became the player he is today.
I learned my lesson a long time ago to never say a player can or can't play or do a certain thing. Because you don't know. All you can do is look at the players resources, and make a guess. There are people on this forum that predicted, after watching Buddy Hield in college, that he wouldn't be able to create his own shot in the NBA. Guess what, they were wrong!!!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well, he does play the 2 at times as well... But your right, he's playing like a point forward.
jcassio
Starter
I agree with your future lineup. In time, that's a lineup filled with strong defenders, solid playmakers (except maybe Bags), and all five can shoot the three (in time). Very exciting. And you know what? I like Kosta coming off that bench when we need to match up with a bigger/stronger center.
I disagree, however, about Bagley never being able to play the three. I think he could play there. But my question is, why would we want to play him there? He's an all-star at the 4/5.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
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