Harry Giles thread back on track ;)

Harry's NBA Ceiling


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  • Poll closed .
Never ever, ever, say never... Wait a minute, I just did, twice.:eek:
Post above yours summed it up perfectly, why would you want to play Bagley at the 3? If he's going to be an all-star in the league it's going to be because of his inside scoring, rebounding, and interior defense.
 
In terms of development, it would take a miracle for Bagley to ever be able to play the 3. Durant had guard skills out of college and I believe he started as a SG, didn't he? Bagley plays like a big man through and through. I don't see a complete reinvention of his game to where he becomes a wing
 
Correct on all accounts.

The NBA is going smaller and quicker with more outside shooting. Bagley is very quick for his size but let's face it he doesn't have the ball handling skills, outside shooting, and lateral quickness to guard all the quick/outside guys that are playing the 3 (many of whom are 2's playing the 3). Plus you want guys like Bagley closer to the basket anyways for rebounding and shot blocking. Giles does have more SF like skills on the offensive end but defensively he can't guard most SF's.

A future lineup (next year) of Fox, Buddy, Bogi, Giles, Bagley is perfect for today's NBA. It's not too big or too small and has just the right amount of shooting with a lot of speed and both bigs are fairly skilled with Giles also being a playmaker that can create too.

Bagley is never going to play the 3 in today's NBA just not going to happen.
I agree with your future starting line up prediction. With that said, do we just let Willie walk? Pay him big money to come off the bench? Trade him? Just curious where everyone's head is at on this subject.
 
I agree with your future starting line up prediction. With that said, do we just let Willie walk? Pay him big money to come off the bench? Trade him? Just curious where everyone's head is at on this subject.
Gotta trade him and try to get back a mid first round pick or a starting caliber SF. If you could ever get any consistency from him he'd be worth keeping but he's just not consistent and most likely never will be. Also as a GM I'd be terrified of locking Willie into a big long term contract. Based on how he has played the last few years and his aloof personality........he is a prime candidate to get paid and then go in the tank.

A guy like Buddy Hield on the other hand, I think you give him a big contract extension and he'll bust his ass trying to justify it.
 
I agree with your future starting line up prediction. With that said, do we just let Willie walk? Pay him big money to come off the bench? Trade him? Just curious where everyone's head is at on this subject.
The more Bagley shows the more I'm willing to trade him, but not just yet. However I would not be comfortable doling out a 15M/yr contract to him. I suspect, though, that Willie is going to get motivated to be WORTH that 15m/yr contract, however it might not fit with our team, given Giles showing so far. We'll know more by the end of the year, and I expect Giles and Bagley to get plenty of run so we can have a better feel for how they all might fit. They'll all be starting bigs in the NBA though, and if I have to choose two, regardless of cost, I'm picking Bagley and Giles.

Was just really hoping Willie would show more on defense and rebounding so far.
 
In terms of development, it would take a miracle for Bagley to ever be able to play the 3. Durant had guard skills out of college and I believe he started as a SG, didn't he? Bagley plays like a big man through and through. I don't see a complete reinvention of his game to where he becomes a wing
His development proxy is Giannis. Started as a 4/5 and has transitioned into point forward.

Bags handle on the left hand is tight and dynamic for a player of his size.
 
Matter fact Blake griffin who is revive the athlete of Bagley/Giles and actually played pg in high school plays PF/C. Blake actually has perimeter skills too
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
I have no memory of JT ever playing the SF position. If he did, it was a very bad idea. JT played center in college, and never truly developed the skills to even be a good solid PF. Tyreke's problem was his jumpshot. I never saw him as a SF but I did see him as a SG if he could become a consistent outside shooter. He finally has, and now is a legit SG in the league. Only took him about 6 or so years to get there though.

If we truly want to play this game, I can point out many players that changed positions in the NBA successfully, and I can point out many who couldn't. It's apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned because it comes down to the individual. What one player does has nothing to do with a different player. Klay Thompson played SF in college but plays SG in the NBA. Originally they tried to make Durant into a SG, but once switched to SF, he became the player he is today.

I learned my lesson a long time ago to never say a player can or can't play or do a certain thing. Because you don't know. All you can do is look at the players resources, and make a guess. There are people on this forum that predicted, after watching Buddy Hield in college, that he wouldn't be able to create his own shot in the NBA. Guess what, they were wrong!!!
you don't remember the Kenny Natt era or maybe it was Keith Smart when one of them tried to play him at the 3? I recall that very well. It may of not been for a long period of time but the fact that they tried it is head scratching.

Durant played SG coming out of Texas because he has 175 and a stick figure and he didn't stop growing either so then he was better suited to play the SF position. It's about circumstances and what the team asks of the player and how he develops. You're right, we can't say for certain that a player can't ever play another position but when you look at the player itself and the possibilities, you outweigh the pros and cons.
 
His development proxy is Giannis. Started as a 4/5 and has transitioned into point forward.

Bags handle on the left hand is tight and dynamic for a player of his size.
They aren't even close as players, even in Giannis' rookie year. His fluidity is completely different from Bagley's. Bagley is pretty fluid for a big man but not fluid enough to be a 3. Giannis had it all from the moment he stepped on the floor. He just didn't know how to use it yet. They are very different players.
 
you don't remember the Kenny Natt era or maybe it was Keith Smart when one of them tried to play him at the 3? I recall that very well. It may of not been for a long period of time but the fact that they tried it is head scratching.

Durant played SG coming out of Texas because he has 175 and a stick figure and he didn't stop growing either so then he was better suited to play the SF position. It's about circumstances and what the team asks of the player and how he develops. You're right, we can't say for certain that a player can't ever play another position but when you look at the player itself and the possibilities, you outweigh the pros and cons.
Don't think it was Coach Smart but he did play James Johnson and Tyreke together to provide excellent floor spacing ;)
 
Gotta trade him and try to get back a mid first round pick or a starting caliber SF. If you could ever get any consistency from him he'd be worth keeping but he's just not consistent and most likely never will be. Also as a GM I'd be terrified of locking Willie into a big long term contract. Based on how he has played the last few years and his aloof personality........he is a prime candidate to get paid and then go in the tank.

A guy like Buddy Hield on the other hand, I think you give him a big contract extension and he'll bust his ass trying to justify it.
Paying Willie is a risk, but not paying him is a bigger risk. We can't lose talent for nothing.

The possible issue of course if the mismatch that might occur between what he thinks he is worth, and what Vlade/Vivek are ready to pay him. There might be some other team that makes him an offer we might be reluctant to match.

One option might be to front load his contract. We have lot of space for now, and will be couple of years before we need to pay Fox, Bogi, Giles. Front loading the contract is relatively safe for us, since it gives us added space down the line, and his value will be closer to his salary when we need to pay the rest of the kids.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
If you believe in Harry and Marvin, you trade Willie at the deadline. Try to get that full sized wing player in the deal and move on. The team won't be able to pay WCS, Fox, Marvin and Buddy. Something has to give. Be proactive.
I don't know. We found a way to pay Webber, Vlade, Peja, Bibby, Miller and Christie at once.
 
I don't know. We found a way to pay Webber, Vlade, Peja, Bibby, Miller and Christie at once.
GMs hand out money like hot cake now a days. We can literally put down the max for Fox/Buddy and if Bagley plays at the same level some GM will max him out on potential alone and Giles will be paid in full as well
 
There are a few big guys playing the 3 in the NBA but most them are freaks and about 6 standard deviations out on the Bell curve.
durant is a good example. There is no other player quite like him in the league. You cannot shoe horn people into roles that they will never have the skills for. Some people seem to like going giant. Playing the biggest players at all positions is risky. There is a reason why the league keeps going smaller.
 
GMs hand out money like hot cake now a days. We can literally put down the max for Fox/Buddy and if Bagley plays at the same level some GM will max him out on potential alone and Giles will be paid in full as well
Indeed. Much of the challenge of putting together a winning/championship team isn't finding the talent, it's figuring out how to keep and pay them.
 
Which is why it is better to trade him before the deadline.
That also is risky :)

I don't think we get a lot for Willie at this stage. He has value, but teams realize that he will want to get paid at the end of the year, and will try to offload salary to make space for him. I do believe that Wizards will trade Porter for him, but I don't see that moving helping us in the short term (unless KK/Bagley/Skal?? can play center reasonably efficiently). I think our best bet is keeping him, but hopefully, we can get him to sign for something reasonable (and no other team forces our hand).
 
As the Wizards have shown (dumbly) it is possible to have a lot of max contracts on the same team.
There are max contracts, and there are max contracts. Both Wall and KD are max, but while one is an excellent player, the other is a perennial MVP candidate.

How our kids develop will be our luck. Some of them will not be max level in the sense the max is supposed to be, but we might need to pay them that money anyway.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
There are max contracts, and there are max contracts. Both Wall and KD are max, but while one is an excellent player, the other is a perennial MVP candidate.

How our kids develop will be our luck. Some of them will not be max level in the sense the max is supposed to be, but we might need to pay them that money anyway.
And the Wizards are showing that that's possible. Wall, Beal, Porter all got signed to varying degrees of max contracts and while it's put the Wizards in cap hell, they were able to keep all their "homegrown talent".
 
New here,
I didn't vote. I believe I personally will have to wait and see. If you can't find that Harry can't be a Super Star, than the answer should always be super star. I have not found him to not be capable of doing so, but I have not found that he is not a bust either... although @ pick 20, what is a bust anyway?

This is what I have seen.
Bad:
Defense:
He seems like a guy who doesn't understand his position on defense. He often fouls by being a slight bit out of position and if he doesn't foul he'll give up the rebound that should be his, by trying to avoid a foul. He has to clean up his defense for him to have a chance at anything more than a bench player. And he is a little stiff
Good:
Offense
He has such great vision for passing. He can shoot from just about anywhere. He can get up really high on any kind of jump that he makes, for put backs or jumpers in the lane. His handle is a plus as well.

All in all as a Kings fan, we all need to hope he can reach his potential, because if he does he could turn around our franchise by himself.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
MOD NOTE: I just noticed that creator of the poll allowed for the changing of votes. Since this poll started on Oct. 8 and we have no way of knowing (that I've been able to detect) how many votes were - in fact - changed, I have set the poll to close. The problem with a long-running poll like this is that there can be major shifts in nearly 2 months.
 
I like a WCs for Porter trade more and more. If need be take on mahinmi
No way!

I can understand WCS for Porter (though not entirely in its favor). Porter is way overpaid for his current production, and Willie will not get close to what we'll be paying Porter if we trade for him. Plus, we create a hole at center.

I can still accept it, since we need to potentially pay a large salary to Willie next year anyway, and some kids might be able to replace some of his production. We fill a position of need in the process.

However, this move saves Wiz a ton of money, and gives them an excellent player for someone they are grossly overpaying. We don't need to take anything else.