I admit, I didn't expect him to look this dreadful but that doesn't mean that the tools and skillset aren't there for him to be a serviceable NBA player. Right now, he is overwhelmed, the strength and the speed is not the same as it was in the Summer League and Preseason and this is a humbling moment for Harry. The worst thing he can do right now is let that plunge his confidence because if that is gone, then getting that back is a difficult process. I believe in Harry to put in the work necessary to contribute to the Kings and he will need to get in the weight room to take the burden of punishment the NBA bigs bestow upon the Kings on a nightly basis, just because the NBA is playing fast and chucking three's at a historic rate does not mean that he can't have value on the Kings.
Harry Giles thread back on track ;)
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I’m not sure Joerger/Vlade aren’t worried about putting some wins together for job security, and I think as long as the team is reasonably in playoff contention you can’t throw a player out there who is performing that badly. It’s bad, he can’t be inserted into a game without sabotaging it for lack of a better word, his advanced stats must have him as the worst player in the league I would think
Put me down for G league. I think it will raise his confidence playing alongside that level of competition. Throwing him into the fire when absolutely not ready can damage it more long term
Put me down for G league. I think it will raise his confidence playing alongside that level of competition. Throwing him into the fire when absolutely not ready can damage it more long term
Jokic isn't a bad comparison. A taller, poor-man's Draymond is another. Harry's handle and lateral quickness (even post injury) and outside shot (well, form anyway) might be better than both of those guys.
But right now he is really pressing. He didn't really get meaningful minutes at Duke so he's not far off from being a guy jumping straight from HS to the NBA with a lot of time off in between. I think the G-League would be a good chance for him to rebuild his confidence and let things start to slow down for him. I wouldn't anticipate it being an up and down to Stockton thing assuming that he shows well for the Stockton Kings. More of a one time trip to build him back up before rejoining the big club.
And it would open up those minutes for Skal since he really needs to show something this season to stay in Sacramento.
I thought there was a chance that Labissiere would show himself to be the better option over Giles but I didn't think it would be by default. I thought maybe Skal would show some real life as an outside shooter, that his added muscle would make him more effective in the block and hold position better as a rebounder. Instead, it's really looking like he's the young big that might hurt the team less right now.
And rather than play Harry and Marvin together as part of the second unit, I'd like to see Bagley subbing in for WCS at the 5 spot, Bjelica play more minutes at PF and Skal back him up there. Or possibly slide Jackson to the PF if he's shooting it well and giving the kind of effort defensively and on the glass that we saw last night against Memphis.
But right now he is really pressing. He didn't really get meaningful minutes at Duke so he's not far off from being a guy jumping straight from HS to the NBA with a lot of time off in between. I think the G-League would be a good chance for him to rebuild his confidence and let things start to slow down for him. I wouldn't anticipate it being an up and down to Stockton thing assuming that he shows well for the Stockton Kings. More of a one time trip to build him back up before rejoining the big club.
And it would open up those minutes for Skal since he really needs to show something this season to stay in Sacramento.
I thought there was a chance that Labissiere would show himself to be the better option over Giles but I didn't think it would be by default. I thought maybe Skal would show some real life as an outside shooter, that his added muscle would make him more effective in the block and hold position better as a rebounder. Instead, it's really looking like he's the young big that might hurt the team less right now.
And rather than play Harry and Marvin together as part of the second unit, I'd like to see Bagley subbing in for WCS at the 5 spot, Bjelica play more minutes at PF and Skal back him up there. Or possibly slide Jackson to the PF if he's shooting it well and giving the kind of effort defensively and on the glass that we saw last night against Memphis.
I just want him to play more defense and rebound. The rest will take care of itself over time. I don't think he should be "given" minutes; he's got to earn them like everyone else. Therefore, when Koufos comes back I want many of Giles' minutes to go to Koufos because Koufos is obviously a better player right now. Until Koufos comes back, I'd think about having Skal take some of Giles' minutes and let Giles watch some from the bench. Sometimes it helps players after a several games of poor performance to watch from the bench for a period of time, look at the film, and change the way they mentally approach the game. I'm not giving up on Giles. I'm just not awarding him the minutes that should go to a better player.
I am going to do a bit of amateur shrink work here and suggest that there could be negative psychological impact on Giles if he was separated from the team and sent to Stockton. It would be a further hit to his confidence in the immediate term, but moreover it might affect his sense of belonging. he has a very "Kings vs the World" kind of attitude and delegating him to Stockton that quickly might make him feel more a part of the world then the Kings. I say keep him with the main group, adjust his playing time, and try to put him in situations that are currently managable for him (ie, no guarding AD). show him you beleive in him and build him up slowly.
I don't think he needs to go to the G league. He has to understand that the team doesn't need his scoring to win. They don't need him to be ROY. Play within the scheme and the stats will come.
He wants to be great today instead of taking his time to grow. Unfortunately he may have fed into his own hype and is scared of failing those expectations.
He wants to be great today instead of taking his time to grow. Unfortunately he may have fed into his own hype and is scared of failing those expectations.
I wouldn't have said this prior to the start of the season, but I agree that a stint in the G-League might be what the doctor ordered. He needs to regain his confidence and shake off the rust. I think in his mind he thinks he should be dominate, and it's not working that way in reality. The last time he dominated was in highschool. Point being, his brain is telling his body to do something, but the body has lost some of its muscle memory and timing.
He needs to get on the court and play some serious minutes, and the King's can't afford to give him that, and still have a chance of winning. Offensively he's struggling with just about every aspect of his game. Defensively he's late to rotate, and on top of that, he's become a bit of a turnover machine. Bagley almost makes Giles look like he's in slow motion by comparison. Giles is a talented player that needs minutes, so the best place for him right now is in Stockton.
He needs to get on the court and play some serious minutes, and the King's can't afford to give him that, and still have a chance of winning. Offensively he's struggling with just about every aspect of his game. Defensively he's late to rotate, and on top of that, he's become a bit of a turnover machine. Bagley almost makes Giles look like he's in slow motion by comparison. Giles is a talented player that needs minutes, so the best place for him right now is in Stockton.
I think it is useful to look at how little HG has played since high school. I am not saying give him time and it will all work out, but what I am saying is that the ONLY way he has a chance to "get it" is to play. He has watched so much ball that bench time has very little value left in his case. If ever there was a candidate for starting in the G league and shuttling up Highway 5 to play off the bench at home it's Harry.
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Besides Buddy and Bogi, we also have to play Shump. He is playing well (for now at least), and might have some value as an ending vet playing well. There won't be too many minutes for JJ at the 2-3 position. I think players like Giles, Skal, and him, will benefit from consistent minutes, instead of riding the bench for long duration in search of sporadic minutes.
The numbers you posted in the Personnel forum bear that out (small sample size, to be sure). But I think the eye test is pretty useful here as well. Giles has just been straight up out-gunned as a C over the first 5 games. We may need to rethink using him as a C under any circumstances where the opponent hasn't gone small. Skal might be the better play as our first C off the bench right now, but I'd guess that once Koufos is healthy he'll be getting the call there.
He's too handsy defensively, he's not moving with the offensive player and pushing his upper body into them and using his hands. That just wont work. On the offensive end he's rushing a tick. He's trying to make passes that work against players who are a step down and is a bit tentative on his shot, which is why he ends up rushing it at the end.
Super fixable stuff.
Super fixable stuff.
What I want to know, is where is the vaunted
"lateral quickness equal to an elite SF?"
If indeed he does possese this, then why is he being put in the C role? he is straight getting man handled everytime im watching him. And i'm not seeing this quickness advantage being utilized on the other end of the court. From earlier sample size he was hitting the 3 ball. This all points to him being a 4 and not a C.
If he is going to be played as a center, plays need to be run for him to get some clean outside looks from deep. Force these big guys to have to gaurd him at the 3 line where Harry has some advantage to offset all he is giving up on the otherside. That 3 ball is the key if he is going to keep coming in as a 5.
"lateral quickness equal to an elite SF?"
If indeed he does possese this, then why is he being put in the C role? he is straight getting man handled everytime im watching him. And i'm not seeing this quickness advantage being utilized on the other end of the court. From earlier sample size he was hitting the 3 ball. This all points to him being a 4 and not a C.
If he is going to be played as a center, plays need to be run for him to get some clean outside looks from deep. Force these big guys to have to gaurd him at the 3 line where Harry has some advantage to offset all he is giving up on the otherside. That 3 ball is the key if he is going to keep coming in as a 5.
If he's still playing like this in a week, the G League will be necessary for him to regain his confidence. His confidence has already obviously taken a hit by having absolutely nothing going for him so far this season so it might be just what the doctor ordered to get him down there and let him see the ball go in the basket again on a regular basis.
I thought Skal looked better after his short G League stint last year. He put up 28pts, 15.5reb and 5blks in 2 games down there and when he came back up he looked better than he had before he went to Reno.
I thought Skal looked better after his short G League stint last year. He put up 28pts, 15.5reb and 5blks in 2 games down there and when he came back up he looked better than he had before he went to Reno.
When the player is shooting 30% from the floor and taking a LOT of shots per minute for a rooking trying to prove he can be effective in the NBA, I don't think plays need to be run for him. I think he needs to find ways to be effective based upon his skill set.
If anybody is disappointed, that's on the Kings and KHTK staff. He's got upside. But, he's not an elite prospect or a contender for the rookie of the year. Because the Kings and KHTK want to sell hope and there is no 2019 pick and they were excited about Giles prospects, they over hyped Giles this summer and in the presason I think Giles will be a nice player. But, he's been wildly over hyped in some circles.
If anybody is disappointed, that's on the Kings and KHTK staff. He's got upside. But, he's not an elite prospect or a contender for the rookie of the year. Because the Kings and KHTK want to sell hope and there is no 2019 pick and they were excited about Giles prospects, they over hyped Giles this summer and in the presason I think Giles will be a nice player. But, he's been wildly over hyped in some circles.
Agree on most points, except that he still might be an elite prospect. I still think he will be great, but the confidence level has certainly gone down. Moreover, if he is more of a 4, then we have to seriously think about the long term fit of him and Bagley.
I also agree on the hype generated by the team. In retrospect, the FO must have been feeling a lot of heat at that time about their picks. Fox was not having a great season, nor was JJ. Giles was red-shirted. Two of the previous years picks (Papa and MR) were let go (I think around the same time the hype machine went into overdrive). By contrast, many of the players they passed (Donovan, OG, Kuzma, Josh Hart, etc.) were playing well. Sure Bogdan was looking good, but that's a lot of potentially bad decisions. Perhaps the hype was to mute some of the criticism.
To clarify, I'm not saying the decisions themselves were bad. There will always be some hits and misses in the draft, and other than Papa, who was a reach, most of the picks were in line with their projected position. Picking Giles, a potential top rated candidate with the 20th pick is exactly the kind of risk an organization like ours should take. Plus, rookies struggling compared to their peers doesn't mean that they will have worse careers. So, I'm fine, even happy, with many of the decisions. Just that in hindsight, I think that the hype machine going into overdrive might have been related to the underwhelming performance of the kids at that time.
Or maybe I am being unnecessarily irritating, and need to find something better to do with my time
I also agree on the hype generated by the team. In retrospect, the FO must have been feeling a lot of heat at that time about their picks. Fox was not having a great season, nor was JJ. Giles was red-shirted. Two of the previous years picks (Papa and MR) were let go (I think around the same time the hype machine went into overdrive). By contrast, many of the players they passed (Donovan, OG, Kuzma, Josh Hart, etc.) were playing well. Sure Bogdan was looking good, but that's a lot of potentially bad decisions. Perhaps the hype was to mute some of the criticism.
To clarify, I'm not saying the decisions themselves were bad. There will always be some hits and misses in the draft, and other than Papa, who was a reach, most of the picks were in line with their projected position. Picking Giles, a potential top rated candidate with the 20th pick is exactly the kind of risk an organization like ours should take. Plus, rookies struggling compared to their peers doesn't mean that they will have worse careers. So, I'm fine, even happy, with many of the decisions. Just that in hindsight, I think that the hype machine going into overdrive might have been related to the underwhelming performance of the kids at that time.
Or maybe I am being unnecessarily irritating, and need to find something better to do with my time
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