Grades v. Thunder 03/07/10
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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Carl is a solid, solid player who's one weakness happens to be rebounding. If we did wind up getting Bosh however, imagine our bench. Having Cisco/ Landry/Donte/(Hawes/JT) along with our first round pick coming off the bench (hopefully without the random assortment of journeymen swingmen) would make us among the better benches in the league in terms of sheer firepower.
Of course you have the potential scenario of
(Insert desired big from this years draft here i.e. Cousins)/Hawes/JT/Dorsey
Bosh/Landry/JT/Brockman
Casspi/Donte/Nocioni
Beno/Cisco/(Udoka or McGuire or even Garret Temple)
Reke/Cisco/Some random dude we pick up off the streets to play backup PG
which is a seriously loaded team that would almost certainly be in the playoff hunt for a long, long time.
Of course you have the potential scenario of
(Insert desired big from this years draft here i.e. Cousins)/Hawes/JT/Dorsey
Bosh/Landry/JT/Brockman
Casspi/Donte/Nocioni
Beno/Cisco/(Udoka or McGuire or even Garret Temple)
Reke/Cisco/Some random dude we pick up off the streets to play backup PG
which is a seriously loaded team that would almost certainly be in the playoff hunt for a long, long time.
All I want is a defensive anchor, preferably one that can also rebound and finish. Someone like Tyson Chandler, just without those injuries and that contract. The Kings have a lot of offensive talent and, by now, even quite a lot of hustle players and rebounders, all that is still (still!!!) lacking is the defense. If there were an opportunity to get Oden or Thabeet that would be ideal, imho.
I agree with you and I will go as far as exchanging soggy waffles straight up for Oden or even Thabeet. It would be a big gamble knowing Oden is injury prone and Thabeet might be a long term project. But, it would be the same thing we are doing with Hawes. We are gambling the future of our team with insisting that Hawes has IT. Hawes had already shown many times that at 7-ft tall, even when he is full of self-esteem and trying hard, he just isn't quick and strong enough to be the future center of a great team.
Imagine yourself as the tallest in the team at 7-ft tall and getting only 2 rebounds against another team with almost the same age as yours.
At 7-ft tall and the tallest in your team, it is a given that you have to perform more at rebounding and blocking shots. And Hawes had almost always failed us especially on those games when the whole team was counting on him.
IMO, Hawes is nothing more than a long-term project just like Thabeet. Actually, Thabeet is more palatable and has more upside in terms of blocking shots and rebounding skills. Nevermind that Hawes has more passing skills than Thabeet. We should have learned our lesson before. We weren't even good enough to win the Western Conference Finals even with the best passing bigs ( Divac and Miller ) in this league. So, why insists on having a future center for this team in their mold?
We need a defensive minded BIG at the 5 and not just a soggy waffle with good passing skill if we are to be a contender in this league.
Imagine yourself as the tallest in the team at 7-ft tall and getting only 2 rebounds against another team with almost the same age as yours.
At 7-ft tall and the tallest in your team, it is a given that you have to perform more at rebounding and blocking shots. And Hawes had almost always failed us especially on those games when the whole team was counting on him.
IMO, Hawes is nothing more than a long-term project just like Thabeet. Actually, Thabeet is more palatable and has more upside in terms of blocking shots and rebounding skills. Nevermind that Hawes has more passing skills than Thabeet. We should have learned our lesson before. We weren't even good enough to win the Western Conference Finals even with the best passing bigs ( Divac and Miller ) in this league. So, why insists on having a future center for this team in their mold?
We need a defensive minded BIG at the 5 and not just a soggy waffle with good passing skill if we are to be a contender in this league.
All the votes should go toward PF and C; anyone voting for any other position should get a one week ban.
I think in Landry we may have found a solid PF and JT can come off the bench.
I like Spencer when he actually decides to play. I just wish he'd decide to play in games where he's actually on the court.
We need a center. This is not a knock on Hawes and I certainly hope that he is part of our future. However, he should not be getting 30+ minutes for another few years. If he plays 15-20 minutes per game coming off the bench for the next 3 years I think it would be best for him and us.
Hawes exemplifies a problem in the NBA - players are drafted too young. It is a really big problem when it comes to PG and C. This is a man's game and the vast majority of players will not be ready to play until they are 24 years old. Again, this is espcially true for PG and C. However, all GMs are scared to death that they are going to miss the next Lebron or D. Howard, so their hands are forced to roll the dice on adolescents.
Hawes exemplifies a problem in the NBA - players are drafted too young. It is a really big problem when it comes to PG and C. This is a man's game and the vast majority of players will not be ready to play until they are 24 years old. Again, this is espcially true for PG and C. However, all GMs are scared to death that they are going to miss the next Lebron or D. Howard, so their hands are forced to roll the dice on adolescents.
A little hustle would have done it.
I didn't get the impression that the Zombie Sonics are a better rebounding team than the Kings are. I got the distinct impression that they were working harder, chasing down balls, crashing boards, etc., especially on their offensive end, because they wanted to win the game more. They shot 48%, but they got 16 second chances (only 16, really?) That number could have easily been sub-40% had we not given them all those second chances. Meanwhile, we shot 51%, and really moved the ball better and got better shots from our offense, but couldn't overcome all the missed opportunities to end possessions. It was all about effort, and they had much more of it where it counted.
I didn't get the impression that the Zombie Sonics are a better rebounding team than the Kings are. I got the distinct impression that they were working harder, chasing down balls, crashing boards, etc., especially on their offensive end, because they wanted to win the game more. They shot 48%, but they got 16 second chances (only 16, really?) That number could have easily been sub-40% had we not given them all those second chances. Meanwhile, we shot 51%, and really moved the ball better and got better shots from our offense, but couldn't overcome all the missed opportunities to end possessions. It was all about effort, and they had much more of it where it counted.
They're #4 in the league in rebounding -- they're pretty good. But really it is mostly about hustle for them, as well as having freaks at the PG and SF spots. Their frontline guys, other than Collison, are not strong board guys, but everybody hustles and they dominate the glass from the other positions.
I stole some interesting stats from another site that will remain nameless. I won't go into all the details, but it has to do with defensive rebounding percentage. The league average is 73%.
A combination of Hawes and Landry = 56% defensive rebounding.
A combination of Hawes and Thompson = 20% defensive rebounding
A combination of Thompson and Landry = 72% defensive rebounding.
A combination of Thompson, Landry, Udoka, Evans, and Udrih was the best combination on the Kings. Somehow they came up with a 100% defensive rebounding result. Not sure how they arrived at that figure, because it seems almost impossible to me. But non the less thats the best rebounding combination the Kings have.
I'm not sure these results are for several games or just last nights game. But the question that looms is why is Thompson a good rebounder with just about anyone else on the team but Hawes. I'm sure there's an answer in this mess, but I don't know what it is.
I do know this though. Both Thompson and Landry are very good at blocking out, and both are good at tipping the ball and keeping it alive. Both are very aggressive at going after the ball. I keyed in on Hawes last night. He doesn't block out at all at times. When he's under the basket with Thompson, he tends to become a spectator instead of going after the ball. Perhaps that explains the poor percentage between them. When he was on the floor with Landry he became a little more aggessive. I saw several times where Landry or Thompson tipped the ball to a teammate. Not so with Hawes.
All in all Hawes is very frustrating to watch at times. On at least four occasions he had position and instead of going up after the ball he waited for the ball to come to him. In everyone of those occasions Krstic jumped and reached over him for the rebound. I have no explaination for what goes on in Hawes mind. But if he has an aggression button, he needs to push it before every game..
A combination of Hawes and Landry = 56% defensive rebounding.
A combination of Hawes and Thompson = 20% defensive rebounding
A combination of Thompson and Landry = 72% defensive rebounding.
A combination of Thompson, Landry, Udoka, Evans, and Udrih was the best combination on the Kings. Somehow they came up with a 100% defensive rebounding result. Not sure how they arrived at that figure, because it seems almost impossible to me. But non the less thats the best rebounding combination the Kings have.
I'm not sure these results are for several games or just last nights game. But the question that looms is why is Thompson a good rebounder with just about anyone else on the team but Hawes. I'm sure there's an answer in this mess, but I don't know what it is.
I do know this though. Both Thompson and Landry are very good at blocking out, and both are good at tipping the ball and keeping it alive. Both are very aggressive at going after the ball. I keyed in on Hawes last night. He doesn't block out at all at times. When he's under the basket with Thompson, he tends to become a spectator instead of going after the ball. Perhaps that explains the poor percentage between them. When he was on the floor with Landry he became a little more aggessive. I saw several times where Landry or Thompson tipped the ball to a teammate. Not so with Hawes.
All in all Hawes is very frustrating to watch at times. On at least four occasions he had position and instead of going up after the ball he waited for the ball to come to him. In everyone of those occasions Krstic jumped and reached over him for the rebound. I have no explaination for what goes on in Hawes mind. But if he has an aggression button, he needs to push it before every game..
I think it comes down to the fact that, for the short period of time that those five were on the floor together (which wasn't long, I don't think), they didn't give up any offensive rebounds. It's still not quite a reliable stat. It could be that the Thunder only missed one shot, and we got the rebound. It could be that it went out of bounds. It could have been an end of half substitution that had those five on the floor, and they only played 30 seconds together.
I've only seen them play a few times this year, but if they're the #4 rebounding team, then it's not because they are just incredible rebounders. Westbrook and Durant are both obviously above average rebounders for their positions, but does that make up for Krstic and Collison, who barely average ten rebounds a game between the two of them? I guess so. But the only reason they beat us on the glass last night is that they hustled more, plain and simple. I didn't come away from that game thinking "we've got to get better rebounders." I was thinking "we've got to work harder."
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