Grades v. Lakers 12/26/09

[drboiffard]

What a pain to lose this game...

It's true Sergio didn't had one of his best nights, but coming off the bench at the end is useless for him, he isn't hot, he isn't concentrated. He has to get flow in the game and run the team, and yesterday at TO wasn't this kind of moment. I think the point that yesterday wasn't almost in the game should not be very important in the debate that Tyreke playing at PG is still very questionable (yesterday only 2 assist and 5 turnovers...)

BTW Brockman should play more. He deserves it only for his mentallity. Is like a spartan warrior, he never gives back.... And Beno was incredible yesterday.

 

[Prince_XY]

I hope everyone listened to Westphals postgame comments. He was clear that the final play was a 1-4 split, which was obvious to anyone that knows basketball. It was an iso for Tyreke. Tyreke was not hogging the ball. Kobe won that time. It happens. What I love is Westphal said he has done it before with Tyreke(1-4 split), and will do it again, many times, throughout his career. He went on to say that all the greats, referring to Kobe in peticular, have gone through those same situations, and they all failed numerous times when they were young. But thats how you learn. Those are situations Kobe has failed in. Same as Lebron. Same as Wade. Same as Jordan. And I'm referring to their first couple years in the league.

Also, I don't see why everyone is on Westphal for bringing Tyreke back in the game in ovetime. He's our best player, hands down. The result obviously wasn't what we wanted, but Westphal isn't a psychic. After all of Tyreke's late game heroics, why the hell would you leave him on the bench. He has confidence in his players, which is more than a fair amount of the fans on this forum. How the hell was Westphal suppose to know that we would give away a 7 point lead in overtime? Looking back, its always easy to criticize. But if we blew the lead with Tyreke on the bench, everyone would be calling for Westphal's head for leaving him on the bench.

Tyreke is a work in progess, far from perfect. But in the future, he will win games like these for us. And we will love him for it. I just hope at that point some on this board look back and remember how asinine some of their comments were after blaming a 20 yr old rookie for costing us a game aginst the defending world champs. Anyone remember Kobe's 3 airballs in overtime vs Utah as a rookie? Anyone remember all the game winning attempts Lebron missed his first 2 years? Neither Stockton nor Nash were considered clutch until their mid 20's. Growth and maturity takes time people.

This post wins the thread.

 

[Prince_XY]

Oh, BTW I want to congratulate the Kings for almost winning this game against the best team in the league. Our young kids were awesome against the defending champions Lakers.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

I hope everyone listened to Westphals postgame comments. He was clear that the final play was a 1-4 split, which was obvious to anyone that knows basketball. It was an iso for Tyreke. Tyreke was not hogging the ball. Kobe won that time. It happens. What I love is Westphal said he has done it before with Tyreke(1-4 split), and will do it again, many times, throughout his career. He went on to say that all the greats, referring to Kobe in peticular, have gone through those same situations, and they all failed numerous times when they were young. But thats how you learn. Those are situations Kobe has failed in. Same as Lebron. Same as Wade. Same as Jordan. And I'm referring to their first couple years in the league.

Also, I don't see why everyone is on Westphal for bringing Tyreke back in the game in ovetime. He's our best player, hands down. The result obviously wasn't what we wanted, but Westphal isn't a psychic. After all of Tyreke's late game heroics, why the hell would you leave him on the bench. He has confidence in his players, which is more than a fair amount of the fans on this forum. How the hell was Westphal suppose to know that we would give away a 7 point lead in overtime? Looking back, its always easy to criticize. But if we blew the lead with Tyreke on the bench, everyone would be calling for Westphal's head for leaving him on the bench.

Tyreke is a work in progess, far from perfect. But in the future, he will win games like these for us. And we will love him for it. I just hope at that point some on this board look back and remember how asinine some of their comments were after blaming a 20 yr old rookie for costing us a game aginst the defending world champs. Anyone remember Kobe's 3 airballs in overtime vs Utah as a rookie? Anyone remember all the game winning attempts Lebron missed his first 2 years? Neither Stockton nor Nash were considered clutch until their mid 20's. Growth and maturity takes time people.

couldn't say it better myself.

 

[sono]

Nearly half the people there were Lakers fans, I was surrounded on three sides by them. Sacramento citizens don't even support their own team, pathetic.

that's why the seats were sold out or should we say thank you laker fans for supporting the Kings as well

 

[pshn80]

"I'm cool with it - we're still learning".

Taking perhaps the two best teams in the NBA to overtime is so far advanced from where we were last year, and where most poeple had us going into this year.. it is ridiculous.

I sure hate seeing the finger pointing - we don't need to throw Tyreke, Coach, or anybody else under the bus.

The Kings are going to have a V shaped recovery it is going to be just fine. I'm actually so excited I did not have any idea we would be this good this year.

I agree. All the comments about our team and player and coach deficiencies have some merit. In that sense isn't it amazing that we are playing so well.

For those commenting on all the Laker fans present - where have you been all these years. There presence makes Kings wins all the more enjoyable.

I couldn't believe how good the Kings were in this game. What a year so far.

 

[Andre87]

The last option. Still very depressed from the game, such tough losses don't happen very often.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

that's why the seats were sold out or should we say thank you laker fans for supporting the Kings as well

Not sure how many laker fans were there, but on TV it looked like it was a lot less than last yr. And you don't here the cheers from laker fans on TV that much as oppose to last yr.

 

[kupman]

I am pretty surprised by all the negativity here. Laker's are a veteran team and defending world champs. We are coming off a 17 win season and all but 2 of the players that played last night are 23 years old or less.

I am happy that 'reke is being given control when we need the game winning shot. It's a great experience for him. Lebron and Kobe in less than 1 week. Think how much he learned this week. Think about how much he will know before he is 21.

Our future is very bright.

 

[bajaden]

If we treat someone like a second coming, then we should receive like from second coming.

Perhaps an illustration might help. Michael Jordan. The NBA finals. Last game, final seconds. Paxton makes the winning shot. The people cheer! Where's instant replay? Let's see this winning shot again! Wait a minute. In slow motion, as the ball heads toward Paxtons waiting hands, we see somthing else in the distance, in the corner of the screen. It's Michael Jordan. He is falling to the ground! As Paxton releases the ball, Jordan is on the floor, his hands and legs flailing wildely. He is rejoicing! He is crazy with joy! We glance back. The ball is still in the air heading toward the net.

Michael knew!

I can repeat the story with Steve Kerr in the role of Paxton. Can you see the pattern?

And Jordan wasn't lesser player because he allowed somebody else to shine in some particular situation. No, that made him even bigger. This kind of situations show you his remarkable bball IQ. And that makes him different from Bryants, Wades, Carters and other great players.
And I would like to see Evans to follow Jordan, not Kobe.
So I'll be hard on his *** as hell!

Then be hard on Westphal's a##, because he was running the play that was called. Westphal admited that after the game. Westphal called for a one four flat. Which is a play that isolates one player at that top and clears the floor for him to go one on one. Now if the coach calls that play, you damm well run that play.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Right now... Tyreke doesn't have a go to move late in the game to get buckets in the perimeter.

I'm talking about Paul Pierce's drive/step back fade, that kind of shot for late in games. Partially its because his jumper is still developing. But the other part is he has to get experience in these situations to feel comfortable. The crunch time part of the game will slow down for him and he'll be able to pick the D apart just like he adjusted to playing against bigger and stronger guys in the opening weeks.

The kid made a few bad plays in crunch time for once. But that happens every game. Kobe had a turnover and got the ball stolen just like Reke down the stretch. Kobe also had his shot blocked clean the next play. That happens to a 14yr vet. I live in LA and I watch clips and laker games for entertainment and bball fix. Trust me, kobe misses down the stretch a lot more than Sportscenter likes to show you.

The loss feels bad, but I'm glad Reke got these experiences. For a while he was actually getting too much praise and I think it really got to his head a bit. He is a 20 yr old kid after all. The cavs and lakers experience will bring him down to earth and he'll work hard to get to the next level

 

[VF21]

Was at game, told my GF "hey the kids played their hearts out, we won only 17 games last year and just took Champs to double ot" yeah its a bummer but also one of best games Ive seen all year

As to comments on Laker crowd, in 16 years Ive seen an arco Laker game every year in person, Laker fans always show up in force, not unusual
I feel arco fans still showed up big time, Several times lakers started "Lets go LA" and "MVP" chants and Kings fans were able to drown them out with "Beat LA" chants. Kings fans did not let team down-period!

I heard from several people, including a couple of Laker fans, who were also at the game and their comments pretty much echoed yours. And these aren't "in your face" Laker fans. They're people who love the game and they truly enjoyed last night because it was competitive and fun, not because the Lakers won. One of them actually told me they see a time in the not-too-distant future when the Kings will be able to finish these games, when the teams that come into Arco better bring their A games or be prepared to lose.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

And how is giving 'Reke the ball so he learns how to run those last second situations not guidance?

Amen. Aerosmith sang it best "you gotta lose to know how to win."

There will be more painful losses than this. No doubt we will lose at least one playoff series with Reke tightening up, Casspi getting wild, Greene/Hawes showing flashes and dissapearing for stretches, etc.

Jordan went through it. Kobe went through it. Hakeem went through it. Isiah went through it. Bird. Etc. Unless you are lucky enough to land on a championship caliber team with battle tested vets (e.g. Magic and Duncan), you don't come out winning immeditely regardless of age. You need to experience losing and learn.

Reke and Co. have learned from two of the best teams in the league the last two games. The good news is despite our age and lack of experience we were close. However, we also got a good lesson that even at Arco, we are not quite there yet. Over the next couple of season this team will have more opportunities to get these important late game reps against good and bad teams and to learn and apply that new knowledge. We are building a contender here, but it takes time.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I didn't break out that quote. Some other poster did. I responded to that quote and used it to prove my point.
Again, I don't compare Evans to Jordan or Kobe or anyone else. I maby compare their potential. And I see a great potential. An enormous potential that can take Tyreke places.
But also I see some signs that I don't like. That's it.

One can learn from his own mistakes, but smart people learn from the other peoples mistakes.

True. But some mistakes you just have to make on your own. Not getting hurt by an insurance scam is something you learn by watching other people's mistakes. How to handle the ball and mix in being just selfish enough to score like a superstar, while still being selfless and getting your teammates involved like you do in the first 40 minutes of the game takes time and repetitions.

I'd be far more concerned if 2 years from now, Reke doesn't look like he is improving there or is getting worse in the first 40 minutes. What we are witnessing is a normal learning curve, except one our budding superstar is getting at an age when most current superstars were still in college or playing 10-15 minutes a game.

 

[Uncia03]

It was interesting watching the last play in regulation. A timeout wasn't called and it was perfectly clear that the gameplan was to have the team clear out to the edges to give Tyreke the opportunity to isolate and get to the rim.
Considering this was exactly what was supposed to happen against the Cavs, I was hoping to see the team execute it better and was also hoping for a better result.

Well, the team did execute it properly, and we had Tyreke isolated against Kobe.
Now if you were watching the game you'd have seen that Tyreke actually had good success getting to the rim against Kobe. The problem had been with Gasol/Odem/Bynum already being set in the paint and contesting Tyreke's shots.

So when this play was developing, I have to admit that I was perfectly fine with it. Either it works and we win the game, or it doesn't work and we go into Overtime.

Next, I have to point out the fact that Tyreke had to wait till the last second or two before starting his move. He was looking to make a 2-point shot. If he makes his move with 6-7 seconds left and gets past Kobe with the 2 point shot he runs the risk of letting the Lakers have 2+ seconds to set up a 3-point shot to win the game.

Anyway, it was clear to me what the gameplan was, and I was perfectly fine with it. Isolate a player who's been able to get to the rim, clear out the area so it won't be contested by the bigs, wait until the final seconds so that if you do get the bucket you don't give the defending world champions the time to set up a play to beat you.

It didn't work tonight, but it was good experience for Tyreke, and I won't have any problems seeing it run again in the future. If it works 50% of the time I'll be quite pleased, because I've seen Kobe take those last second turn-around fade-aways and on-the-move 3-pt shots, and miss more than he makes. So I'll take an iso play with a clear-out over a jumpshot anyday, especially as an iso play also gives you a far higher percentage of picking up a foul by the defender.

I'm really disappointed that we didn't get the win. But I'm thrilled that we took both the Lakers and the Cavs to overtime. If we play with that same sort of consistency we are a playoff team this year, and if we get a defensive big man to anchor the post, we'll be really dangerous.

Finally, huge props to Donte. He played an absolutely fantastic game, and his defense against Kobe was spectacular. I'm not sure how you can walk away from this game not feeling anything other than supreme optimism. If Donte and Tyreke can both keep this up we'll have two players who can play lock-down defense against 1s, 2s, and 3s while being outstanding athletes and very good offensive players. We just need to get a player who can lock-down 4s and 5s and we'll be set.


Go Kings!

 

[ZZ-TOP]

True. But some mistakes you just have to make on your own. Not getting hurt by an insurance scam is something you learn by watching other people's mistakes. How to handle the ball and mix in being just selfish enough to score like a superstar, while still being selfless and getting your teammates involved like you do in the first 40 minutes of the game takes time and repetitions.

I'd be far more concerned if 2 years from now, Reke doesn't look like he is improving there or is getting worse in the first 40 minutes. What we are witnessing is a normal learning curve, except one our budding superstar is getting at an age when most current superstars were still in college or playing 10-15 minutes a game.

Let's do that!
I just hope PW is ready to yell in Tyreke ear often enough
and that Tyrekes ear is ready to listen.

 

[Kingster]

Hilarious Tyreke hate. Just hilarious. So you really think the Kings should win against the Lakers? The WORLD CHAMPION Lakers? Yeah, maybe they win in Sacramento one out seven games. Maybe one out of ten. This is a team of youngins and you really think they should win against the World Champions? And Tyreke is the culprit? He's the guy who cost a win? Please.................

 

[Kingster]

Greene

He continues to show he's going to be an outstanding player in years to come. Played fantastic D on Kobe. Made a major positive impact in this game against elite competition.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

So when this play was developing, I have to admit that I was perfectly fine with it. Either it works and we win the game, or it doesn't work and we go into Overtime.

Next, I have to point out the fact that Tyreke had to wait till the last second or two before starting his move. He was looking to make a 2-point shot. If he makes his move with 6-7 seconds left and gets past Kobe with the 2 point shot he runs the risk of letting the Lakers have 2+ seconds to set up a 3-point shot to win the game.


Go Kings!

I noticed a lot of the same with that last play. Although, I think Reke made a huge mistake waiting as long as he did. I think he spin for a jumper was very predictable once the clock ran that low. He should have gone 3-4 seconds earlier and it would have left him time for a step back, drive to the hoop, kick out to a team mate, etc. Kobe is a good defender and becomes 100X better when a move is that predictable. We attacked way too late. Other than that, I was also fine with the ISO. Reke will learn.

 

[VF21]

Hilarious Tyreke hate. Just hilarious. So you really think the Kings should win against the Lakers? The WORLD CHAMPION Lakers? Yeah, maybe they win in Sacramento one out seven games. Maybe one out of ten. This is a team of youngins and you really think they should win against the World Champions? And Tyreke is the culprit? He's the guy who cost a win? Please.................

I don't think it is/was "hate"... In fact, I think that word is bandied around way too much.

What it was for me, and I think a number of others, was frustration because we could see the light at the end of the tunnel, and for once it wasn't an oncoming freight train.

Making a comment about "hate" at this point, after everything that's been said in this and the game thread, is IMHO totally without merit...

 

[dbfish]

I have to blame Westphal for allowing Tyreke to have carte blanche to have tunnell

vision at the end of these games. Everybody knows he is looking for a seem

to drive to the basket. So now they are packing it in and taking their chances

that he is going to clank a jumper. They know he's not going to pass the ball.

Once he learns to see the open man in these situations and improves his outside

shot we will start winning some of these games. The shot will come in due time.

But if he refuses to let anybody else play with "his" ball in crunch time, maybe

it would be better to sit him once or twice and let him think about it until he

figures out that he isn't the only guy on the court.

 

[mr. moustache]

I say we keep folding his laundry and keep putting him into situations where he can win the game. The last two were miserable attempts, but I'm not sure I want to treat this guy the same as everyone else. He's the straw that stirs the drink. Developing his game in these situations is much more important than winning any game this year.

I could change my tune if this happens another 2-3 times in a row, but I won't be statement benching this guy anytime soon.

I have to blame Westphal for allowing Tyreke to have carte blanche to have tunnell

vision at the end of these games. Everybody knows he is looking for a seem

to drive to the basket. So now they are packing it in and taking their chances

that he is going to clank a jumper. They know he's not going to pass the ball.

Once he learns to see the open man in these situations and improves his outside

shot we will start winning some of these games. The shot will come in due time.

But if he refuses to let anybody else play with "his" ball in crunch time, maybe

it would be better to sit him once or twice and let him think about it until he

figures out that he isn't the only guy on the court.

 

[Kingster]

I don't think it is/was "hate"... In fact, I think that word is bandied around way too much.

What it was for me, and I think a number of others, was frustration because we could see the light at the end of the tunnel, and for once it wasn't an oncoming freight train.

Making a comment about "hate" at this point, after everything that's been said in this and the game thread, is IMHO totally without merit...

If "hate" is too much for your senstive sensibilities, then just substitute "ridiculous criticism born of absurd expectations". That should do it.

 

[M_Barragan]

I just remember the behind the back dribble that left Kobe frozen then took it to pau and bynum to score.... that was ****ing awesome! Kobe's face was priceless after that haha.

That made my night period. Kid has potential serious potential... Can't wait to see what he can do when he's my age now. Gonna have to wait 5 years for that... damn I feel old.

 

[kupman]

I think that Hawes grade of B- is a bit low. His minutes were limited due to Brockman's effectiveness in the paint. If Hawes had about 10 more minutes he could have very well had a triple double.

His interior play needs work, but is showing that he can already do things that other bigs will never do.

 

[Emma]

Edit: and as author of the RA&1 award, I give it unanimously to one Tyrele Evans...YOU my friend took the game to the playground and put a wrench in our offense when if mattered most...thanks a heap! Ok, back to practice now, por favor!

Whoops, I didn't read this thread before I gave it to Sergio.

Gotta admit, Sergio was out of control out there.

 

[Tetsujin]

Whoops, I didn't read this thread before I gave it to Sergio.

Gotta admit, Sergio was out of control out there.

This was the first in a while that made me see why Portland, a PG hungry team, was willing to give him away for a box of crackerjacks. He made more poor choices than a hot blonde sorority girl out there last night.

 

[Arco Thunder]

This was the first in a while that made me see why Portland, a PG hungry team, was willing to give him away for a box of crackerjacks. He made more poor choices than a hot blonde sorority girl out there last night.

Or a hot blonde guy making poor choices?

 

[FaStRmAn]

This was a GREAT Growth game for the Kings in DECEMBER The season is early and we will see the Fakers 3 more times at least. I think the young Kings will learn and grow from this encounter. The atmosphere at ARCO was electric! The players were feeding off of the energy and traded blow for blow against the heavyweight champion. We took the Lakers into a Double OT game that was up for grabs until Mr Bryant drained those 2 WIDE OPEN TOP THE KEY NEVER MISS shots that Donte Greene gave him.

Kobe rarely if ever misses that shot and is highly unlikely to miss that shot with the game on the line. He lives for that shot. That wide open top of the Key straight on shot is like a LAYUP for Kobe. Someone needs to point that out to Greene in the film room. You can leave anyone else even Fisher, but leaving Kobe open at any time near the end of a game in OT At the TOP OF THE KEY is the same as giving the game to the Fakers gift wrapped. Kobe shoots and makes at least 1000 of those shots a day in practice. It is automatic for him. It is every long ball shooter's dream to line one up from the top of the key straight on to win the game. It is money.

Lesson learned by Greene. But what is far more important in this game and the game against the Cavs is that we took both of these teams to overtime (2OT for the Fakers). The two teams we just played are NBA Championship quality teams. They are teams that have ALL the pieces and are prepping for the eventual playoff run and the push for the finals. These games in December will not mean anything to the Cavs or the Fakers, but it does mean something to the young Kings. They now have a taste of the intensity it takes to compete against the best in the league. The intensity it will take for 4 quarters and even into overtime if necessary to win these types of games.

I am very interested to see how these last two games effect how the Kings play the Nuggets tomorrow. I like the way the Kings match up against the Nuggets. Billips against Tyreke is going to be a great match up. And JT against Nene will be a match up worth paying for! The Kings will be somewhat rested and will have had time to digest what has transpired the last 2 games and what it means to them if they want to compete. I like the way the rest of the Kings players are playing and how our bench has been solid and effective. Casspi and Beno are playing great ball right now and the rest of the bench has contributed when needed to compete. Brockman is a BEAST and the way he throws his body around without any regard to his health worries me, but it is just the kind of all out hustle this team needs from a big man. This one "Should be a DANDY!" as our friend Grant loves to say.

I hope the reports that Tyreke's ankle is worse than reported are not true. We need a healthy Evans to make a game of it against the Nuggets. It would seem that the Kings are relying more and more on this young phenom, and he has been up to the challenge so far. I just cant WAIT till Martin comes back and can take some of the load off Evans and open up entirely new ways to attack defenses that Westphal must be just itching to implement.

I truly believe the Kings can go into Denver and take one from them. Nuggets play in Dallas tonight and then have to take a late flight to SAC to face the Kings on the short turn around. Now physically that shouldn't matter this early in the season but physiologically it might give the Kings the little edge they need to steal a much needed win against a quality opponent. The Kings need this game more than the Nuggets do. The Kings are looking for respectability, and a win against a hot Nuggets team at home will go a long way in building the confidence this young team needs to keep rolling through a tough January schedule. GO KINGS !! EVANS 4 R.O.Y. !!!

 

[VF21]

This was a GREAT Growth game for the Kings in DECEMBER The season is early and we will see the Fakers 3 more times at least. I think the young Kings will learn and grow from this encounter. The atmosphere at ARCO was electric! The players were feeding off of the energy and traded blow for blow against the heavyweight champion. We took the Lakers into a Double OT game that was up for grabs until Mr Bryant drained those 2 WIDE OPEN TOP THE KEY NEVER MISS shots that Donte Greene gave him.

Kobe rarely if ever misses that shot and is highly unlikely to miss that shot with the game on the line. He lives for that shot. That wide open top of the Key straight on shot is like a LAYUP for Kobe. Someone needs to point that out to Greene in the film room. You can leave anyone else even Fisher, but leaving Kobe open at any time near the end of a game in OT At the TOP OF THE KEY is the same as giving the game to the Fakers gift wrapped. Kobe shoots and makes at least 1000 of those shots a day in practice. It is automatic for him. It is every long ball shooter's dream to line one up from the top of the key straight on to win the game. It is money.

Lesson learned by Greene. But what is far more important in this game and the game against the Cavs is that we took both of these teams to overtime (2OT for the Fakers). The two teams we just played are NBA Championship quality teams. They are teams that have ALL the pieces and are prepping for the eventual playoff run and the push for the finals. These games in December will not mean anything to the Cavs or the Fakers, but it does mean something to the young Kings. They now have a taste of the intensity it takes to compete against the best in the league. The intensity it will take for 4 quarters and even into overtime if necessary to win these types of games.

I am very interested to see how these last two games effect how the Kings play the Nuggets tomorrow. I like the way the Kings match up against the Nuggets. Billips against Tyreke is going to be a great match up. And JT against Nene will be a match up worth paying for! The Kings will be somewhat rested and will have had time to digest what has transpired the last 2 games and what it means to them if they want to compete. I like the way the rest of the Kings players are playing and how our bench has been solid and effective. Casspi and Beno are playing great ball right now and the rest of the bench has contributed when needed to compete. This one "Should be a DANDY!" as our friend Grant loves to say.

I hope the reports that Tyreke's ankle are worse than reported are not true. We need a healthy Evans to make a game of it against the Nuggets. It would seem that the Kings are relying more and more on this young phenom, and he has been up to the challenge so far. I just cant WAIT till Martin comes back and can take some of the load off Evans and open up entirely new ways to attack defenses that Westphal must be just itching to implement.

I truly believe the Kings can go into Denver and take one from them. Nuggets play in Dallas tonight and then have to take a late flight to SAC to face the Kings on the short turn around. Now physically that shouldn't matter this early in the season but physcologically it might give the Kings the little edge they need to steal a much needed win against a quality opponent. GO KINGS !! EVANS 4 R.O.Y. !!!

Are you talking official reports from Kings.com or FullCourtPress or blog entries on other message boards?