Grades v. Grizzlies 11/02/09

[bajaden]

Omri was the man last night. His focus, gritt, shooting and defending were a vet not a rookie. Every game he improves. Every game! His minutes tell the tale of this game. I'd give him a B or B+ for this early in the season.

Now, the other side of this coin. If he starts, who comes off the bench at the 3 spot? Noce? Probably as Noce can play the 3 and 4 depending on matchups and we need someone to backup JT as well when he gets his two quick fouls.

Noce is showing his mettle in the Griz game both with 3's and rebounding. I'd give him a B+

Tyreke was hobbled with a bad stick and Beno showed his mettle as well off the bench. His grade (from me at least) would be an INC.

Westphal seems to be making the right subs for the situations so his grade would be at least a B+

Ahhhh, finally a positive post. I thought for a moment after reading some of these posts that we had lost the game. For those that just don't get it, let me clarify. Martin is not Jordan! Nor is he LeBron or Wade or Kobe. If he were, he would be making another 10 mil more a year. OK! He is not now, and never will be a great defensive player. Last night he tried. I have to give him props for that. He still got beat, but he tried, and thats all I can ask from a player. You know what? Beno tried too. And he did a pretty good job until it came to defending the pick and roll.

But both Martin and Beno did what they do well last night. They might have even done it better than well. So give them their props for that and for the win, and quit whining about something neither of them will ever do well. If you'll excuse me I have to go light a candle at the altar of Casspi.

 

[piksi]

Isn't it obvious yet that optimism is not very welcome at this sight?

Most people on this site know way too much basketball to ignore the obvious and lose credibility.


Most people on this site are very optimistic.

 

[Heuge]

40% from the field for a season is efficient ?

What is not efficient then ?

A career 17 ppg on 11 shots is efficient.

Finding statistical aberrations to make a point, sounds like player hate to me.

 

[AriesMar27]

Ahhhh, finally a positive post. I thought for a moment after reading some of these posts that we had lost the game. For those that just don't get it, let me clarify. Martin is not Jordan! Nor is he LeBron or Wade or Kobe. If he were, he would be making another 10 mil more a year. OK! He is not now, and never will be a great defensive player. Last night he tried. I have to give him props for that. He still got beat, but he tried, and thats all I can ask from a player. You know what? Beno tried too. And he did a pretty good job until it came to defending the pick and roll.

But both Martin and Beno did what they do well last night. They might have even done it better than well. So give them their props for that and for the win, and quit whining about something neither of them will ever do well. If you'll excuse me I have to go light a candle at the altar of Casspi.

martin played his *** off.... to play 52 minutes and score 48 points takes a lot out of a person. we probably wont be seeing that any time soon.

 

[piksi]

A career 17 ppg on 11 shots is efficient.

Finding statistical aberrations to make a point, sounds like player hate to me.

same to you

 

[Kingsgurl]

How can you grade player an "A' and proceed to criticize him repeatedly and deliver backhand compliments throughout your analysis?

You have to cut Brickie some slack. He's never fogiven Kev for having the unmitigated audacity to actually turn out to be a damn fine player, certainly not a 'scrub'. A's are always well earned when he can get them

The one thing I can say is, sitting in ARCO, it is nice to see the effort and intensity on defense. Guys are really working out there (yes, even Kevin) They might still get beat, but it isn't because they aren't trying. I'm going to give the coaching staff a huge prop for that, as guys actually seem to have a concept of what they are trying to do now, both offensively and defensively.

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

same to you

lol he was referring to the entire sum of his career statistics.. not enough of a sample for you?

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

Works for me. I'm pretty sure playing defense was in the job description when he took the gig. When you have a player score 48 points and his team just barely pulls off a win, or has a 12 win season, something is wrong. In my mind, Kevin Martin has come to represent the lack of commitment by the Kings to DEFENSE. As far as I'm concerned, any player not committed to playing said defense should earn a place on the bench, 48 points or not. 13 jabs is going easy on him in my opinion.

Well when you're surrounded with what is arguably the worst roster in the nba scoring 48 doesnt guarantee a win or a large win season.. My point is people expect him to be what he is not.. If Evans had put up this game there would not be one finger pointed to a negative. Now I'm not proposing that we dont critique Kevin's game but come on.. that is an amazing game he played last night, appreciate it.

 

[piksi]

lol he was referring to the entire sum of his career statistics.. not enough of a sample for you?

he intentionally skipped FTA

 

[gunks]

Love all the talk of hussle.

The Kings turned into such a bunch of lackadasical punks for a couple seasons...But we traded all those scrubs and now we got scrappers.

Great new identity to establish for a young team.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Isn't it obvious yet that optimism is not very welcome at this sight?

You misspelled hyperbole.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Well when you're surrounded with what is arguably the worst roster in the nba scoring 48 doesnt guarantee a win or a large win season.. My point is people expect him to be what he is not.. If Evans had put up this game there would not be one finger pointed to a negative. Now I'm not proposing that we dont critique Kevin's game but come on.. that is an amazing game he played last night, appreciate it.

There would be 2. One would belong to Gary. The other would belong to the Laker fan, err, I mean AM27, the Kings fan!

Kevin had a great game, kudos to him. He still gets lost on defense but not as much as he used to. Dude can fill it up though. Some of those threes he hit were a few feet behind the line. He doesn't even look to find the line anymore, he just thinks to himself "Hell, I'm in range. Why not?"

 

[fnordius]

lol he was referring to the entire sum of his career statistics.. not enough of a sample for you?

The topic was one game. The grades are for one game. Career stats don't play a major role in the discussion of one game, unless one is talking about a TDM award.

 

[Bricklayer]

Dear Mr. Bricklayer:

How can you grade player an "A' and proceed to criticize him repeatedly and deliver backhand compliments throughout your analysis? You suppose OJ Mayo let K-Mart score, as if he wasn't trying or too inept. Perhaps, and more likely, K-Mart is too tall and too quick for OJ Mayo? Let's add up the number of wonderful appraisals you hand out to K-Mart on his way to 48 points:




I count 13 little jabs delivered K-Marts way, all bolded.

I have no problem with an objective criticism. But this is not that. It is absurd that the end of your little sypnosis you find fault with a guy scoring 48 points because it took all of regulation and overtime, as if he should have tallied that total halfway through the 4th quarter to meet with your standards.

K-Mart is such an incredible and efficient scorer, I think observers tend to take it for granted. I will refer to you as an observer, because you certainly don't sound like much of a fan.

It comes from having watched the game for a while and being able to distingush things that fanboys generally choose not to. In Memphis's previous game, Carmelo Anthony scored 42 points on them...in 36 minutes. That's better than a point a minute and truly torrid. At Kevin's pace last night if he had played 36 minutes he would have scored about 32 points or so. Which is still a strong night, but not quite the gushworthy accomplishment needed to warm your little fan's heart, nor to earn the automatic "+" here without more (also an indication of the type of defense Memphis has played thus far this season -- allowing 116pts a game and guys in 3 of the worst 4 games to have monster games against them -- Bosh 37pts in 38 min, Melo 42 in 36, and Kevin 48 in 53). It may surprise you to know that I would generally be more impressed by somebody scoring 25pts in 20 minutes than somebody scoring 25pts in 36 minutes. Call me wacky.

I do however apologize for actually pointing out Kevin's mistakes in a game I was attempting to grade and that Mayo repeatedly left Kevin standing all alone out on the 3pt line -- I mean those things have no place in a post game analysis who's primary purpose is to laud and cheerlead blindly while hugging myslef over how wonderful our heroes are. I'll try to do better.

P.S. Thank you for excluding me from your particular brand of fandom. It is sincerely appreciated.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

40% from the field for a season is efficient ?

What is not efficient then ?

That's a four-game sample. Martin's career TS% (which takes into account threes and free throws) is .605. Compare that to known great shooters/scorers like Ray Allen (.575), Michael Jordan (.569) and Reggie Miller (.614) and it stacks up pretty well.

And now I realize I can sort by career TS%. Kevin Martin is tied for 13th all-time in the NBA. I would call that efficient.

 

[Heuge]

same to you

lol 17ppg on 11 shots is great. Youre full of it.

As Factorial said it ranks up there as the best of all time. Care to retract your statement and admit that Martin may be efficient.

 

[piksi]

what is the winning % of teams that he is playing for - or does than not count into efficiency.

he will always ramain only half of basketball player until he starts defending

 

[Merdiesel]

Hahahaha

What shoes does Martin have on?

 

[Rookie]

what is the winning % of teams that he is playing for - or does than not count into efficiency.

he will always ramain only half of basketball player until he starts defending

You asking for Kobe, offensively dangerous but capable of playing good defense. We don't have Kobe, we got KMart. KMart is good at what he does and he does it well. His performance last night was outstanding by any professional standard. Take the game and enjoy it.

Half of a bb player?? That's just silly. This isn't math where 1/2 + 1/2 = 1.

 

[Kingsguy881]

What shoes does Martin have on?

Probly Jordans. He is a member of team Jordan.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

man you can feel the love in the cyberspace tonight!

we got a win. lets jus tbe happy and enjoy the feeling. untill we have to play the much more dangerous Hawks.

 

[piksi]

You asking for Kobe, offensively dangerous but capable of playing good defense. We don't have Kobe, we got KMart. KMart is good at what he does and he does it well. His performance last night was outstanding by any professional standard. Take the game and enjoy it.

Half of a bb player?? That's just silly. This isn't math where 1/2 + 1/2 = 1.

any defense not good defense

 

[NoBonus]

When I watched this game, I saw two different teams... one that showed a ton of heart, hustle, and toughness (Hawes, Martin, Omri, Beno, Nocioni, K9, and JT) and a team that lacked those things (May, Mason, Evans?) Clearly, Evans was injured and should have sat down; normally (if the previous 3 games = normal) Evans would be in the heart and hustle team, too. May and Mason did seem to play with any sense of urgency or heart right after tip off.... but once they sat down, the REAL Sacramento Kings showed up and beat a better team. Hopefully, May and Mason will see the writing on the wall and get energized like the other guys...

Secondly, I felt Coach Westphal did a real nice job on the game.

also, as fans, we should work to sellout every game if that is what it takes for the Kings to get motivated.

Go Kings!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

any defense not good defense

Kmart is not a good defender ill agree.. actually hes pretty terrible, considering his quickness and natural instincts he has. but he has so much of an offensive load to carry on this team(and he does it VERY well) that you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. hes not superman.

He is trying alot harder on defense this year..hes going for steals more and his entensity is up. its just when you are constantly getting knocked to the ground and running around like a deer on speed on the offensive end you get tired on defense. I think when Tyreke and Omri really start to come along and help chip in on the offensive end, Martins D' could improve. hes built simlar to Bowen so if he can get that pesky in your face type of d going I'd be happy.

 

[kupman]

The grades are very fair IMHO. I think it should be noted in the Hawes analysis that he passed the ball very well tonight. He has the makings of a very efficient passing big man.

 

[rhythmless]

It comes from having watched the game for a while and being able to distingush things that fanboys generally choose not to. In Memphis's previous game, Carmelo Anthony scored 42 points on them...in 36 minutes. That's better than a point a minute and truly torrid. At Kevin's pace last night if he had played 36 minutes he would have scored about 32 points or so. Which is still a strong night, but not quite the gushworthy accomplishment needed to warm your little fan's heart, nor to earn the automatic "+" here without more (also an indication of the type of defense Memphis has played thus far this season -- allowing 116pts a game and guys in 3 of the worst 4 games to have monster games against them -- Bosh 37pts in 38 min, Melo 42 in 36, and Kevin 48 in 53). It may surprise you to know that I would generally be more impressed by somebody scoring 25pts in 20 minutes than somebody scoring 25pts in 36 minutes. Call me wacky.

I do however apologize for actually pointing out Kevin's mistakes in a game I was attempting to grade and that Mayo repeatedly left Kevin standing all alone out on the 3pt line -- I mean those things have no place in a post game analysis who's primary purpose is to laud and cheerlead blindly while hugging myslef over how wonderful our heroes are. I'll try to do better.

P.S. Thank you for excluding me from your particular brand of fandom. It is sincerely appreciated.

You, and perhaps a couple other posters are the only reason I even come to this board, albeit somewhat apprehensively. I sincerely hope these posters do not teach my children, god forbid they actually receive any criticism that leads to further development. Let's just slap A's on everyone's papers and we're all happy! No wonder our test scores lag the world.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

what is the winning % of teams that he is playing for - or does than not count into efficiency.

he will always ramain only half of basketball player until he starts defending

That would not count into any traditional measures of efficiency, no. Neither does defense. Efficiency generally refers to the number of points a player scores per shot attempt. TS%, for example, is an efficiency metric that attempts to estimate the number of times a player is fouled. If you multiply TS% by 2, you get the number of points a player scores per shot attempt, whether they were fouled on the shot or not.

Your original objection involved shooting percentage (an efficiency metric, though not the best) which suggests that you were interested in efficiency, not the team's record or defense. However, moving the bar is par for the course for arguing on the internet, so the transition is understandable.

 

[piksi]

That would not count into any traditional measures of efficiency, no. Neither does defense. Efficiency generally refers to the number of points a player scores per shot attempt. TS%, for example, is an efficiency metric that attempts to estimate the number of times a player is fouled. If you multiply TS% by 2, you get the number of points a player scores per shot attempt, whether they were fouled on the shot or not.

Your original objection involved shooting percentage (an efficiency metric, though not the best) which suggests that you were interested in efficiency, not the team's record or defense. However, moving the bar is par for the course for arguing on the internet, so the transition is understandable.

TS% by Kevin specifically coresponds to what exactly ?

The stat that was given is 17pt on 11 shots which is BS. What do you get when you add FTAs here ? 14 shots, 15 shots ? That is the BS I am objecting to especially because the same person who brought it up - is the same person who argued against it when we were talking about Pedja's efficiency in the past making him a hypocrite.

 

[VF21]

This thread is actually funny to read, in a sad little kind of way.

I was there last night. Kevin Martin sparked the team and he was a constant figure down the stretch. Those of you who don't want to give him the credit he deserves, no problem. Those who want to point out there are deficiencies in his game, also no problem. This is a young team with problems that managed to eke out a tough win because of heart, determination and hustle. They didn't give up and they didn't stop trying. If you don't agree with Bricklayer, which I often don't, that's also no problem. Instead of wringing your hands and making silly accusations, etc. why not refute his grades with logic, reason and sound argument? Just a thought...

Martin actually played defense and did his best to cover his man. Was it perfect? Hell, no, but it was true effort. Some of you really need to lighten up just a bit, folks. This was a good game ... emphasis on the word GAME. It was entertaining, it showed the hope and promise of some of our young players, and it ended with a W.

That's more than good enough for this very hoarse but happy Kings fan.

I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!

 

[NoBonus]

This thread is actually funny to read, in a sad little kind of way.

I was there last night. Kevin Martin sparked the team and he was a constant figure down the stretch. Those of you who don't want to give him the credit he deserves, no problem. Those who want to point out there are deficiencies in his game, also no problem. This is a young team with problems that managed to eke out a tough win because of heart, determination and hustle. They didn't give up and they didn't stop trying. If you don't agree with Bricklayer, which I often don't, that's also no problem. Instead of wringing your hands and making silly accusations, etc. why not refute his grades with logic, reason and sound argument? Just a thought...

Martin actually played defense and did his best to cover his man. Was it perfect? Hell, no, but it was true effort. Some of you really need to lighten up just a bit, folks. This was a good game ... emphasis on the word GAME. It was entertaining, it showed the hope and promise of some of our young players, and it ended with a W.

That's more than good enough for this very hoarse but happy Kings fan.

I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!

I second that!