[Grades] Grades v. Bulls 2/3/2016 (with actual grades included)

I am disappoint of this game?

  • Where was Rondo?

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Where was Rudy?

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Nice choke Cuz.

    Votes: 6 10.9%
  • I'm with Cuz, why the hell take WCS out down the stretch you smallball loving has been?

    Votes: 20 36.4%
  • Now a Cuz/Randy Brown beef?

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Who the hell is E'Twan Moore?

    Votes: 11 20.0%
  • What the hell was that foul by Rondo in the final minutes?

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Karl not fired before his presser.

    Votes: 9 16.4%

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .
Aaron Bruski ‏@aaronbruski
Karl on why Casspi wasn’t on the floor when they needed a three: “Because I liked the team I had on the floor.”

At 105-102 with 17 seconds to go, we had the ball and Kings took a timeout. At least at this point he should have come in, a 3 would have been helpful. Instead we shot for 2- twice- both missed.
Then again with 8 seconds to go, still 105-102. It's clear that a 3 pointer is needed, right? Casspi is 5th in the league at the moment with 43.7% from 3, ahead of Klay Thompson and Draymond Green, for example. Tonight he had 2/3. Why not play him?
Strange decision, IMHO.

But again, I didn't watch the game, maybe I missed something.
 
We've got pieces. Its damn hard to tell how many because we are nearly as dysfunctional when it comes to winning as people thought we might be. But there are lots of keepable pieces here. But the glue is missing. Somehow everything is out of whack and experiencing rotating failures.

The only thing I'm banking on right now is Cousins and WCS.
 
At 105-102 with 17 seconds to go, we had the ball and Kings took a timeout. At least at this point he should have come in, a 3 would have been helpful. Instead we shot for 2- twice- both missed.
Then again with 8 seconds to go, still 105-102. It's clear that a 3 pointer is needed, right? Casspi is 5th in the league at the moment with 43.7% from 3, ahead of Klay Thompson and Draymond Green, for example. Tonight he had 2/3. Why not play him?
Strange decision, IMHO.

But again, I didn't watch the game, maybe I missed something.

No, you didn't miss anything...other than the possibility of throwing something very heavy at your TV screen.
 
Is this the 3rd straight game with inexplicable dumb fouls in the last minutes hurting the team badly?

Does anyone have a better explanation than "The players are f-ing up deliberate fouls purposely?"

Because I'm finding it hard to believe that Rudy Gay, Demarcus Cousins, AND Rajon Rondo all lost their minds and reverted to junior-high stupidity and chose to foul once the game got real close in the 4th....
 
I guarantee you that no matter which coach we bring in there will be some fans who want us to play differently and who say we are not playing to strengths. For example: all the talk of Cousins being on the perimeter yet his % on jumpshots was way better than his post attempts.

This is true, but also a bit of a strawman.

Getting harder and harder to deny that Karl is just awful.

He was great in his day, but he just needs to retire.
 
There's really only two choices from here:

(1) Blow up the team, trade everybody. Including Cousins.
(2) Fire George Karl and see if this team has a future with different leadership.

Anything else is a waste of time. I'm serious, I just don't see any other way this team gets better. We're not even a playoff team in the West this year with Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay, and DeMarcus Cousins? Are you kidding me? We're getting our asses kicked by E'Twaun Moore, Jeff Green, Ryan Anderson, Troy Daniels. Either we've got the coaching thing so wrong that we're vastly under-performing our talent level or our talent level is still in the bottom third of the league. Looking at our roster I just can't believe we're as bad as this. We're not a young team anymore. DeMarcus, Rudy, and Rondo are all All-Star level players in their prime. Koufos, Collison, and Belinelli have been solid veterans for awhile on other teams. Casspi has been extremely effective shooting the ball this year. And yet we've managed to suck our way all the way back to the 9th spot in the lottery. It just defies belief. Either George Karl is so bad that he needs to be fired ASAP before he can do any more damage or we've topped out as an erratic middle of the pack squad that will never make the playoffs with these players.
 
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There's really only two choices from here:

(1) Blow up the team, trade everybody. Including Cousins.
(2) Fire George Karl and see if this team has a future with different leadership.

Anything else is a waste of time. I'm serious, I just don't see any other way this team gets better. We're not even a playoff team in the West this year with Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay, and DeMarcus Cousins? Are you kidding me? We're getting our asses kicked by E'Twaun Moore, Jeff Green, Ryan Anderson, Troy Daniels. Either we've got the coaching thing so wrong that we're vastly under-performing our talent level or our talent level is still in the bottom third of the league. Looking at our roster I just can't believe we're as bad as this. We're not a young team anymore. DeMarcus, Rudy, and Rondo are all All-Star level players in their prime. Koufos, Collison, and Belinelli have been solid veterans for awhile on other teams. Casspi has been extremely effective shooting the ball this year. And yet we've managed to suck our way all the way back to the 9th spot in the lottery. It just defies belief. Either George Karl is so bad that he needs to be fired ASAP before he can do any more damage or we've topped out as an erratic middle of the pack squad that will never make the playoffs with these players.

Would you wait to target a long term replacement coach in the off season and just use an intern if no one suitable wanted the job?
 
And to add on to what I just said...

Maybe some fans still think that trading any combination of complimentary pieces is all it will take to turn things around. I've seen enough this year to conclude that this system George Karl has implemented -- if we really want to stick with it -- cannot win with DeMarcus Cousins as it's best player. It's just not possible. He'd have to score 35 a game to give us a chance at this rate, and that's unrealistic. Shaquille O'Neal at his best topped out at 30 and 13 a game. Look at this team of scrubs he led to an NBA title that year:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2000.html

That's 21 year old Kobe Bryant, 32 year old Glen Rice and a bunch of nobodies. They won 67 games! We can't even crack .500. Something is very very wrong here. From my point of view, it can't just be the players.
 
If he survives the all star break.


Good point. If this team collapses between now and then, I think he's gone.

Sounds like Thibs is open to offers. Maybe we can convince him to start at the all star break and get a running start on next year.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02...ng-for-right-situation-to-return-to-coaching/
Former Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau is waiting for the “right situation” to return to the NBA coaching ranks, he said on the Bill Simmons Podcast on Monday.

“This year’s been great for me,” Thibodeau said, referencing what he’s called a “sabbatical” from his coaching. “As I said, it’s a much broader view. I’ll wait until the end of the season (to weigh options). I do miss the competition. If the right situation comes along, I’d love to get back into it.”
 
Stop bringing up Shaq!
The league today does not allow for big men to dominate the way they did in Shaq's era.
He bowled over guys that were planted and in good body position, but they almost never called offensive fouls against him.

That's not even mentioning the change in the zone rules and how smaller guys routinely deny entry passes or front or flop.

If Shaq played today (without blatant NBA favoritism), he would foul out in the first quarter and be completely ineffective on offense, and probably have to be pulled on defense with his opposing center dropping 3-ptrs on him all game long.
And every close game would be Hack-A-Shaq times infinity.
 
Would you wait to target a long term replacement coach in the off season and just use an intern if no one suitable wanted the job?

Personally? I don't think an interim coach fixes anything either. If that's our solution, we might as well just stick with George Karl. And let me be very clear that I want him gone today if possible, so that's not what I'm advocating. No, we need to line up a coaching replacement right now. Screw George Karl's feelings, he was actively campaigning for this job last year while Tyrone Corbin was already hired as the coach for the rest of the year. Interview candidates, discuss the culture of the team with them and get some feedback on what other coaching minds think is holding us back. Find a candidate you feel comfortable with (most likely Tom Thibodeau...) and offer him the job. Then (if they accept the offer) you can fire George Karl. Thanks for nothing, here's your enormous paycheck. Farewell and good luck. And whoever this next coach is, you better hope they're a strong enough personality to get the players to embrace his system and you'd better get him players which fit that system. This whole "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" approach to Head Coach-GM relations needs to stop now.
 
At 105-102 with 17 seconds to go, we had the ball and Kings took a timeout. At least at this point he should have come in, a 3 would have been helpful. Instead we shot for 2- twice- both missed.
Then again with 8 seconds to go, still 105-102. It's clear that a 3 pointer is needed, right? Casspi is 5th in the league at the moment with 43.7% from 3, ahead of Klay Thompson and Draymond Green, for example. Tonight he had 2/3. Why not play him?
Strange decision, IMHO.

But again, I didn't watch the game, maybe I missed something.

No you're on point. Line ups continued to baffle.

At about 4 minutes to go, when we're closing within 8, 6, 5 points, and it's clear that the defense is the reason, he TAKES OUT Cauley Stein to go small. Gasol immediately scores on the next possession and the momentum shifts. That was EXACTLY the time we needed our top defenders in. That was as baffling a substitution as I've seen all year.
 
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Stop bringing up Shaq!
The league today does not allow for big men to dominate the way they did in Shaq's era.
He bowled over guys that were planted and in good body position, but they almost never called offensive fouls against him.

That's not even mentioning the change in the zone rules and how smaller guys routinely deny entry passes or front or flop.

If Shaq played today (without blatant NBA favoritism), he would foul out in the first quarter and be completely ineffective on offense, and probably have to be pulled on defense with his opposing center dropping 3-ptrs on him all game long.
And every close game would be Hack-A-Shaq times infinity.

So then it sounds like you're advocating for option number 1?
 
There's really only two choices from here:

(1) Blow up the team, trade everybody. Including Cousins.
(2) Fire George Karl and see if this team has a future with different leadership.

Anything else is a waste of time. I'm serious, I just don't see any other way this team gets better. We're not even a playoff team in the West this year with Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay, and DeMarcus Cousins? Are you kidding me? We're getting our asses kicked by E'Twaun Moore, Jeff Green, Ryan Anderson, Troy Daniels. Either we've got the coaching thing so wrong that we're vastly under-performing our talent level or our talent level is still in the bottom third of the league. Looking at our roster I just can't believe we're as bad as this. We're not a young team anymore. DeMarcus, Rudy, and Rondo are all All-Star level players in their prime. Koufos, Collison, and Belinelli have been solid veterans for awhile on other teams. Casspi has been extremely effective shooting the ball this year. And yet we've managed to suck our way all the way back to the 9th spot in the lottery. It just defies belief. Either George Karl is so bad that he needs to be fired ASAP before he can do any more damage or we've topped out as an erratic middle of the pack squad that will never make the playoffs with these players.

I would like to say that as much of a fan I am watching Rondo play, he often gives the appearance of helping us a lot more than he actually is. If we really want to play Cousins in the post, it's hard to have a PG and PF that can't shoot, a SF that is only so-so from 3 and ... well our SG struggles are so well documented as it is. Cousins will get double and triple teamed and he isn't particularly effective in posting up but turning away from the defense to score. On defense as well Rondo is actually pretty bad in his rotations and staying in front of his man, but that's something that isn't brought up very often. And as much as I couldn't stand IT, having a PG who can actually just pull up and shoot would help us a lot.

I may come across as defending the coaching staff not because I think Karl is doing a great job, but because I don't see many coaches who I think would do a better one, and even far less that could do a better job but aren't going to want to come here. I am also not 100% convinced that we can't a playoff team under Karl, even with questionable rotations (which I personally feel are very much due to the roster and players' strengths in the first place), because we have games where we play great D and score effortlessly, but there are other games where we fall flat in the 1st quarter.
 
Missed free throws? Check
Guys not communicating on defense? Check
Completely unforced TOs? Check


Those things can happen and they obviously cost a reliable team games from time to time. It's the other things listed above that will most likely cement this teams fate as a lotto team that is going to lose their first round pick in the summer. Fighting from behind game after game and adjusting after you are already in a hole is not the way regardless of any extenuating circumstances.
 
I would like to say that as much of a fan I am watching Rondo play, he often gives the appearance of helping us a lot more than he actually is. If we really want to play Cousins in the post, it's hard to have a PG and PF that can't shoot, a SF that is only so-so from 3 and ... well our SG struggles are so well documented as it is. Cousins will get double and triple teamed and he isn't particularly effective in posting up but turning away from the defense to score. On defense as well Rondo is actually pretty bad in his rotations and staying in front of his man, but that's something that isn't brought up very often. And as much as I couldn't stand IT, having a PG who can actually just pull up and shoot would help us a lot.

I may come across as defending the coaching staff not because I think Karl is doing a great job, but because I don't see many coaches who I think would do a better one, and even far less that could do a better job but aren't going to want to come here. I am also not 100% convinced that we can't a playoff team under Karl, even with questionable rotations (which I personally feel are very much due to the roster and players' strengths in the first place), because we have games where we play great D and score effortlessly, but there are other games where we fall flat in the 1st quarter.

Well, I mean, that's the thing isn't it? What do you need to win games in the league right now? Look at the list of top scorers in the league and their team's record:

1. Stephen Curry (45-4)
2. James Harden (26-25)
3. Kevin Durant (38-13)
4. DeMarcus Cousins (21-28)
5. Lebron James (35-13)
6. Russell Westbrook (38-13)
7. Damian Lillard (24-26)
8. DeMar DeRozan (33-16)
9. Paul George (26-23)
10. Anthony Davis (18-30)

Only Sacramento, Portland, and New Orleans can't find a way to win with top 10 scorers on the team. Portland gutted their team and replaced their vets with young unproven players and they're still winning more than we are. New Orleans has the same mix of good offense and terrible defense that we have. You can keep going down the list if you want to. Is IfAt1st right that the current rule set punishes post play and rewards teams with perimeter stars? If that's the case don't you need to cash in on your Anthony Davis or DeMarcus Cousins right now and get yourself an elite wing instead? Let's get real here and consider the possibility that everyone else is right, maybe dominant big men are done and you can't win that way. Maybe it's not George Karl's fault, we just need more shooters, more wings who can hit threes and we'll be right at the top of the standings too...

I think you could try to make an argument that it's impossible to win in the league right now without elite 3pt shooting. Golden State and San Antonio are the best shooting teams by far and they're lapping the pack. I would counter though that we're not even trying to eschew the long ball, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to use our lack of success to justify it. We shot more 3 pointers than free throws today. On our home court, with Boogie Cousins and Rudy Gay on our team. Against Milwaukee it was 26 3pt attempts and 30 free throw attempts. The Memphis game was a more sensible mix, but in the loss to New Orleans we shot 28 threes and only 20 free throws. We're letting 'em fly along with the league trend and our team 3pt% is tied for 9th out of 30. So what is actually going on here? I honestly don't know. I'm not enough of a rules expert to differentiate between correlation and causation here. But I do know that you're not going to win a lot when you allow the other team to score 108 points a game and that's one aspect of the game that we should have some control over.

You're not the first one I've seen arguing that Rajon Rondo is hurting the team. He's shooting 36% from three this season though, which is hardly as awful as people make him out to be. If defenders are leaving him wide open, good! Only Omri Casspi and Seth Curry have a significantly better chance of making that shot and we want them shooting it don't we? I've mentioned elsewhere that the scoring leaderboard has been trending smaller for awhile now. There are currently 7 starting PGs in the top 20. 5 of them are also the leading scorer on their team. If you expand the list to the top 30 scorers you add three more point guards for a full 1/3 of the league that has a top 30 scorer in the starting PG spot. Guards who pull up and shoot are dominating the league overall. That makes Rondo an outlier as a PG who doesn't look to create his own shot. And outliers are suspect. Outliers, in fact, bear many superficial similarities with scapegoats. My question is -- if we already have a 20 point scorer on the wing (Rudy Gay was the #12 overall scorer in the league last year!) would it actually make sense to have a PG trying to pour in points too? Rondo is notching 12 assists a game -- that means more made baskets for DeMarcus and Rudy. Doesn't that fit our personnel better than a guy like IT who leads his team in FGA from the PG position?

This is what it comes down to for me: we need to make a decision if we're going to be a run and gun high scoring powerhouse or if we're going to be a deliberate defensive squad who maximizes their possessions by converting in half-court sets. If run and gun is who we deep down want to be, if that's how we think we're going to win in this league, then it's time to seriously consider cashing in the biggest asset we have for a dynamic wing player who can light up the three point line every night. If we're going to reverse course and utilize a bruising post presence in the manner that has historically been the most effective, than Rajon and Rudy are ideal running mates at PG and SF and you absolutely have to swap out George Karl with a more traditional half-court minded coach who will drill defense all day long until it comes out our players ears. You have to. Anything else would be irresponsible.

And then there's this: More than any other team in the league (even Memphis who's core is aging rapidly) we have a roster ideally suited for a grind it out half court style of game and we're trying to outrun and out shoot Golden State. It's a crime against basketball that this roster and this coach are paired together. It's a relationship which benefits nobody. Either George Karl should have free reign to reshape the roster as he sees fit or he shouldn't be here. That's the gutcheck. If you do still believe he's the right coach for the job, than you have to be willing to give him the roster he wants.
 
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I liked the energy level. I thought the guys fought hard. More of that please! They where a bit out of control at times. But if they can learn to have control at that tempo they will start winning more. It's the first game I have seen where they sustained that kind of energy level for almost the entire game. I know we are disappointed with the loss. But I think this time people are being too harsh.
 
Well, I mean, that's the thing isn't it? What do you need to win games in the league right now? Look at the list of top scorers in the league and their team's record:

1. Stephen Curry (45-4)
2. James Harden (26-25)
3. Kevin Durant (38-13)
4. DeMarcus Cousins (21-28)
5. Lebron James (35-13)
6. Russell Westbrook (38-13)
7. Damian Lillard (24-26)
8. DeMar DeRozan (33-16)
9. Paul George (26-23)
10. Anthony Davis (18-30)

Only Sacramento, Portland, and New Orleans can't find a way to win with top 10 scorers on the team. Portland gutted their team and replaced their vets with young unproven players and they're still winning more than we are. New Orleans has the same mix of good offense and terrible defense that we have. You can keep going down the list if you want to. Is IfAt1st right that the current rule set punishes post play and rewards teams with perimeter stars? If that's the case don't you need to cash in on your Anthony Davis or DeMarcus Cousins right now and get yourself an elite wing instead? Let's get real here and consider the possibility that everyone else is right, maybe dominant big men are done and you can't win that way. Maybe it's not George Karl's fault, we just need more shooters, more wings who can hit threes and we'll be right at the top of the standings too...

I think you could try to make an argument that it's impossible to win in the league right now without elite 3pt shooting. Golden State and San Antonio are the best shooting teams by far and they're lapping the pack. I would counter though that we're not even trying to eschew the long ball, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to use our lack of success to justify it. We shot more 3 pointers than free throws today. On our home court, with Boogie Cousins and Rudy Gay on our team. Against Milwaukee it was 26 3pt attempts and 30 free throw attempts. The Memphis game was a more sensible mix, but in the loss to New Orleans we shot 28 threes and only 20 free throws. We're letting 'em fly along with the league trend and our team 3pt% is tied for 9th out of 30. So what is actually going on here? I honestly don't know. I'm not enough of a rules expert to differentiate between correlation and causation here. But I do know that you're not going to win a lot when you allow the other team to score 108 points a game and that's one aspect of the game that we should have some control over.

You're not the first one I've seen arguing that Rajon Rondo is hurting the team. He's shooting 36% from three this season though, which is hardly as awful as people make him out to be. If defenders are leaving him wide open, good! Only Omri Casspi and Seth Curry have a significantly better chance of making that shot and we want them shooting it don't we? I've mentioned elsewhere that the scoring leaderboard has been trending smaller for awhile now. There are currently 7 starting PGs in the top 20. 5 of them are also the leading scorer on their team. If you expand the list to the top 30 scorers you add three more point guards for a full 1/3 of the league that has a top 30 scorer in the starting PG spot. Guards who pull up and shoot are dominating the league overall. That makes Rondo an outlier as a PG who doesn't look to create his own shot. And outliers are suspect. Outliers, in fact, bear many superficial similarities with scapegoats. My question is -- if we already have a 20 point scorer on the wing (Rudy Gay was the #12 overall scorer in the league last year!) would it actually make sense to have a PG trying to pour in points too? Rondo is notching 12 assists a game -- that means more made baskets for DeMarcus and Rudy. Doesn't that fit our personnel better than a guy like IT who leads his team in FGA from the PG position?

This is what it comes down to for me: we need to make a decision if we're going to be a run and gun high scoring powerhouse or if we're going to be a deliberate defensive squad who maximizes their possessions by converting in half-court sets. If run and gun is who we deep down want to be, if that's how we think we're going to win in this league, then it's time to seriously consider cashing in the biggest asset we have for a dynamic wing player who can light up the three point line every night. If we're going to reverse course and utilize a bruising post presence in the manner that has historically been the most effective, than Rajon and Rudy are ideal running mates at PG and SF and you absolutely have to swap out George Karl with a more traditional half-court minded coach who will drill defense all day long until it comes out our players ears. You have to. Anything else would be irresponsible.

And then there's this: More than any other team in the league (even Memphis who's core is aging rapidly) we have a roster ideally suited for a grind it out half court style of game and we're trying to outrun and out shoot Golden State. It's a crime against basketball that this roster and this coach are paired together. It's a relationship which benefits nobody. Either George Karl should have free reign to reshape the roster as he sees fit or he shouldn't be here. That's the gutcheck. If you do still believe he's the right coach for the job, than you have to be willing to give him the roster he wants.

Good post. The issue you highlighted about how the refs are calling games and how the league in general has moved to rewarding perimeter players is something I was trying to get at for some time now. It is certainly true that historically having a dominant big guarantees you success, but I really don't know whether that's true anymore. The style of play is very different now, and you can't win trading 2 points for 3. I say this as one who didn't want Karl here for the very reason that I didn't believe jumpshooting could win in the long term. But my beliefs are being challenged the way the game is changing.

As for Rondo - percentages obviously don't tell the full picture. The 3s Rondo shoots and the 3s Steph Curry shoots and the 3s Marco shoots are all very different. Teams would very gladly leave Rondo open and dare him to beat them. What we need is not so much a trigger happy PG like IT, but someone like Chris Paul (because Chris Pauls just grow on trees don't they :)). A guy who you can't leave open, who can score when he wants, but is still looking to set guys up first and foremost. Besides, if Cousins is the HOF low post player that he is made out to be, you don't need to have a PG who is getting 10 assists or who excels in setting him up for easy buckets. Derek Fisher sure didn't have to do much setting guys up.

Then you brought up the matter of Rudy Gay - who I also think is not the best fit for Cousins if you want him down low. Gay is not a good catch and shoot player, likes to post up against smaller defenders and doesn't play well off the ball in terms of cutting to the basket etc.

And therein lies the problem IMO. It goes back to how the league is changing and trending. The players who would complement Cousins are hard to find/ hard to get to come to Sac. 2 decades ago there were a good number of teams with dominant bigs, and the league consisted of the players to complement them. Look at it today - where are the Derek Fishers? Where are the Kobe/Wades? Where are the Bruce Bowens? How do we achieve going big, having a rim protector and someone who can cover stretch 4s, and someone who can hit a midrange shot all in one position?
 
...And therein lies the problem IMO. It goes back to how the league is changing and trending. The players who would complement Cousins are hard to find/ hard to get to come to Sac. 2 decades ago there were a good number of teams with dominant bigs, and the league consisted of the players to complement them. Look at it today - where are the Derek Fishers? Where are the Kobe/Wades? Where are the Bruce Bowens? How do we achieve going big, having a rim protector and someone who can cover stretch 4s, and someone who can hit a midrange shot all in one position?

Interesting comment, and one I'll have to ponder on for a bit.
 
Some of this handwringing about finding perfect compliments to Cousins is unnecessary I think. Rondo may not be a knock down spot up shooter but he is a master tactician which is arguably more valuable. The lack of creativity in our offensive sets creates more problems for us than lack of spacing. Dumping the ball into the post and waiting for the kickout is static, easily defendible offense. Getting multiple parts moving at once allows a skilled player like Cousins to be even more dangerous, especially if you have a PG capable of reading the floor and finding open players.

With Rudy I think his game is actually better for halfcourt motion basketball than a pure spotup shooter would be. We saw this last year when he was very effective pounding the ball inside as one half of a scoring tandem that made defenses choose who they were going to double team. Your secondary scorer in a run and gun offense is a guy who runs to his spot and waits for the ball. In the half court you want a second player who can isolate and create their own shot or attack the basket and draw a double team and get to the line consistently. That's why I think he's a perfect wing to pair with Cousins. His 3pt shooting is way down this year, but so are his free throw attempts. I think we should be running more plays that get the ball in Rudy's hands. Maybe as an intermediate step to get Cousins the ball against a rotating and out of position defense instead of a set defense.

And for all the crap he gets from Kings fans, Ben has actually been the second most reliable 3pt threat on the team this year and he's barely touching the ball. He should constantly be moving to open space and Rondo, DeMarcus, and Rudy need to be looking for him before they force up a shot that isn't really there. Same goes for Willie under the basket. He should be getting 3-4 dunks or layups every game just by staying in motion.

What we're doing wrong right now is that we don't really value possessions. We're impatient. Maybe all that "let's play with a shorter shot clock" in training camp sunk in. Cousins will force up an impossible shot through contact and then complain he didn't get a call or Rudy will settle for a tough midrange pullup or Rondo will try to make an impossible pass. All this while Ben and Willie are open and a simple pass would lead to a better shot.

Half-court offense has two essential tenets which directly conflict with Karl ball. That a made shot taken with 1 second left on the shotclock is better than a made shot with 10 seconds left. That's the first one. The more clock you eat up controlling the ball, the less time you have to spend playing defense. That's the antithesis of "pace". And the second one is that every single possession that you don't score is an opportunity for the other team to beat you. It's not about how many shots you throw at the basket, it's about making sure that every shot you do take has a good chance of going in. No wasted possessions.

Our roster is set up to win that way I think, so our focus on "pace" is actively making it harder to win, not the other way around.
 
Well, I mean, that's the thing isn't it? What do you need to win games in the league right now? Look at the list of top scorers in the league and their team's record:

1. Stephen Curry (45-4)
2. James Harden (26-25)
3. Kevin Durant (38-13)
4. DeMarcus Cousins (21-28)
5. Lebron James (35-13)
6. Russell Westbrook (38-13)
7. Damian Lillard (24-26)
8. DeMar DeRozan (33-16)
9. Paul George (26-23)
10. Anthony Davis (18-30)

Only Sacramento, Portland, and New Orleans can't find a way to win with top 10 scorers on the team. Portland gutted their team and replaced their vets with young unproven players and they're still winning more than we are. New Orleans has the same mix of good offense and terrible defense that we have. You can keep going down the list if you want to. Is IfAt1st right that the current rule set punishes post play and rewards teams with perimeter stars? If that's the case don't you need to cash in on your Anthony Davis or DeMarcus Cousins right now and get yourself an elite wing instead? Let's get real here and consider the possibility that everyone else is right, maybe dominant big men are done and you can't win that way. Maybe it's not George Karl's fault, we just need more shooters, more wings who can hit threes and we'll be right at the top of the standings too...

I think you could try to make an argument that it's impossible to win in the league right now without elite 3pt shooting. Golden State and San Antonio are the best shooting teams by far and they're lapping the pack. I would counter though that we're not even trying to eschew the long ball, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to use our lack of success to justify it. We shot more 3 pointers than free throws today. On our home court, with Boogie Cousins and Rudy Gay on our team. Against Milwaukee it was 26 3pt attempts and 30 free throw attempts. The Memphis game was a more sensible mix, but in the loss to New Orleans we shot 28 threes and only 20 free throws. We're letting 'em fly along with the league trend and our team 3pt% is tied for 9th out of 30. So what is actually going on here? I honestly don't know. I'm not enough of a rules expert to differentiate between correlation and causation here. But I do know that you're not going to win a lot when you allow the other team to score 108 points a game and that's one aspect of the game that we should have some control over.

You're not the first one I've seen arguing that Rajon Rondo is hurting the team. He's shooting 36% from three this season though, which is hardly as awful as people make him out to be. If defenders are leaving him wide open, good! Only Omri Casspi and Seth Curry have a significantly better chance of making that shot and we want them shooting it don't we? I've mentioned elsewhere that the scoring leaderboard has been trending smaller for awhile now. There are currently 7 starting PGs in the top 20. 5 of them are also the leading scorer on their team. If you expand the list to the top 30 scorers you add three more point guards for a full 1/3 of the league that has a top 30 scorer in the starting PG spot. Guards who pull up and shoot are dominating the league overall. That makes Rondo an outlier as a PG who doesn't look to create his own shot. And outliers are suspect. Outliers, in fact, bear many superficial similarities with scapegoats. My question is -- if we already have a 20 point scorer on the wing (Rudy Gay was the #12 overall scorer in the league last year!) would it actually make sense to have a PG trying to pour in points too? Rondo is notching 12 assists a game -- that means more made baskets for DeMarcus and Rudy. Doesn't that fit our personnel better than a guy like IT who leads his team in FGA from the PG position?

This is what it comes down to for me: we need to make a decision if we're going to be a run and gun high scoring powerhouse or if we're going to be a deliberate defensive squad who maximizes their possessions by converting in half-court sets. If run and gun is who we deep down want to be, if that's how we think we're going to win in this league, then it's time to seriously consider cashing in the biggest asset we have for a dynamic wing player who can light up the three point line every night. If we're going to reverse course and utilize a bruising post presence in the manner that has historically been the most effective, than Rajon and Rudy are ideal running mates at PG and SF and you absolutely have to swap out George Karl with a more traditional half-court minded coach who will drill defense all day long until it comes out our players ears. You have to. Anything else would be irresponsible.

And then there's this: More than any other team in the league (even Memphis who's core is aging rapidly) we have a roster ideally suited for a grind it out half court style of game and we're trying to outrun and out shoot Golden State. It's a crime against basketball that this roster and this coach are paired together. It's a relationship which benefits nobody. Either George Karl should have free reign to reshape the roster as he sees fit or he shouldn't be here. That's the gutcheck. If you do still believe he's the right coach for the job, than you have to be willing to give him the roster he wants.

This is one of most objective and reasonable posts I have read in a long time regarding our team, the personel we have and the way the game changes. I agree totally. The only solution I see is bringing in Thibs if we want to roll with this roster. But does he want to come here? I have no idea and I don't like the other coaching options available.

I would like to say that as much of a fan I am watching Rondo play, he often gives the appearance of helping us a lot more than he actually is. If we really want to play Cousins in the post, it's hard to have a PG and PF that can't shoot, a SF that is only so-so from 3 and ... well our SG struggles are so well documented as it is. Cousins will get double and triple teamed and he isn't particularly effective in posting up but turning away from the defense to score. On defense as well Rondo is actually pretty bad in his rotations and staying in front of his man, but that's something that isn't brought up very often. And as much as I couldn't stand IT, having a PG who can actually just pull up and shoot would help us a lot.

I may come across as defending the coaching staff not because I think Karl is doing a great job, but because I don't see many coaches who I think would do a better one, and even far less that could do a better job but aren't going to want to come here. I am also not 100% convinced that we can't a playoff team under Karl, even with questionable rotations (which I personally feel are very much due to the roster and players' strengths in the first place), because we have games where we play great D and score effortlessly, but there are other games where we fall flat in the 1st quarter.

I agree with you that the 3 point shot has incredible value, just because of math. What I don't agree with is that post game and 3s can't go hand in hand. If you have a post threat like Demarcus that is actually one of the best passing big man I want him down low because it draws so much attention that there will be open 3s if you play it correctly.
But we give the ball to Demarcus and everyone stops moving and watches. And this has nothing to do with bad shooters at the 1 and the 4. There are other ways to stop the defense from triple teaming Demarcus. Even when we play Casspi at the 4 there is still no spacing because everyone is standing and watching. We don't set off ball screens etc.
I made a thread where I described with pictures and videos illustrating my points.
Link: http://kingsfans.com/threads/in-the-filmroom-pt-ii-offense.64099/

The spurs use the post even when they have Parker at the 1 and non shooting bigs at the 4 and 5. Of course they are the spurs and we are not but all I want to say is it is possible if we would practice it during training camp and during the season. There are ways. But the coaching stuff doesn't want to because they prefer a different style.
I agree though that we could use a PG/SG that can create his own shot by simply setting him a ball screen after we failed to get a better shot. And I also agree that a Rondo-Gay-Wcs-Cousins core is really in need of better spacing.

In the end it comes down to what hrdboild said: we either roll the dice on Cousins and play the way he is best utilized or we roll with Karl and give him players suited to the dribble drive offense
 
Some of this handwringing about finding perfect compliments to Cousins is unnecessary I think. Rondo may not be a knock down spot up shooter but he is a master tactician which is arguably more valuable. The lack of creativity in our offensive sets creates more problems for us than lack of spacing. Dumping the ball into the post and waiting for the kickout is static, easily defendible offense. Getting multiple parts moving at once allows a skilled player like Cousins to be even more dangerous, especially if you have a PG capable of reading the floor and finding open players.

With Rudy I think his game is actually better for halfcourt motion basketball than a pure spotup shooter would be. We saw this last year when he was very effective pounding the ball inside as one half of a scoring tandem that made defenses choose who they were going to double team. Your secondary scorer in a run and gun offense is a guy who runs to his spot and waits for the ball. In the half court you want a second player who can isolate and create their own shot or attack the basket and draw a double team and get to the line consistently. That's why I think he's a perfect wing to pair with Cousins. His 3pt shooting is way down this year, but so are his free throw attempts. I think we should be running more plays that get the ball in Rudy's hands. Maybe as an intermediate step to get Cousins the ball against a rotating and out of position defense instead of a set defense.

And for all the crap he gets from Kings fans, Ben has actually been the second most reliable 3pt threat on the team this year and he's barely touching the ball. He should constantly be moving to open space and Rondo, DeMarcus, and Rudy need to be looking for him before they force up a shot that isn't really there. Same goes for Willie under the basket. He should be getting 3-4 dunks or layups every game just by staying in motion.

What we're doing wrong right now is that we don't really value possessions. We're impatient. Maybe all that "let's play with a shorter shot clock" in training camp sunk in. Cousins will force up an impossible shot through contact and then complain he didn't get a call or Rudy will settle for a tough midrange pullup or Rondo will try to make an impossible pass. All this while Ben and Willie are open and a simple pass would lead to a better shot.

Half-court offense has two essential tenets which directly conflict with Karl ball. That a made shot taken with 1 second left on the shotclock is better than a made shot with 10 seconds left. That's the first one. The more clock you eat up controlling the ball, the less time you have to spend playing defense. That's the antithesis of "pace". And the second one is that every single possession that you don't score is an opportunity for the other team to beat you. It's not about how many shots you throw at the basket, it's about making sure that every shot you do take has a good chance of going in. No wasted possessions.

Our roster is set up to win that way I think, so our focus on "pace" is actively making it harder to win, not the other way around.

Good points. But even when you slow down the pace of your own offense, you don't change the way teams are defending us. Slowing down the offense and grinding it out in the halfcourt needs incredible efficiency. With the way teams are defending today, every missed posession will hurt you, while every TO and missed shot might lead to a 3 on the other side of the court.
The whole idea of playing fast is, that it is easier to score against a defense struggling to set up correctly. Scoring in the halfcourt may be less efficient and slowing down on purpose will hinder the ability to go on quick runs.

You certainly watched the Warriors vs Grizzlies matchups since the rise of the Warriors as contenders. And every time the Grizzlies make a few mistakes they find themselves buried by 10+ points.

And the Grizzlies are/were an elite defensive team. We are not, no matter who coaches this roster.
 
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