good game, now lets get back to our goal

[fnordius]

What does that tell us?

That the franchise has temporarily elevated itself to the .273 level?

Just because there was no "Fire Reggie!" thread after this one last game doesn't mean that we've completed rebuilding and suddenly have a championship caliber team now. It's going to be a couple more years before the team's very good, so you might as well sit back & enjoy the ride.

 

[Hoovtrain]

That the franchise has temporarily elevated itself to the .273 level?

Just because there was no "Fire Reggie!" thread after this one last game doesn't mean that we've completed rebuilding and suddenly have a championship caliber team now. It's going to be a couple more years before the team's very good, so you might as well sit back & enjoy the ride.

Well put.

 

[NME]

If they can continue to put out this kind of effort every 9th game, then we've really got something here.

 

[Jerryaki]

::grabs the popcorn, waits for inevitable fan/non-fan, tanking/losing/rebuilding arguments::

Have anyone heard of the names of top 3 pick players Olowakandi and Kwame Brown?

has anyone heard of awesome free agent signing Allan Houston?

 

[kennadog]

IMO, the best way to get that remaining piece in our rebuilding is the free agency where you get exactly the kind of player/finished product that we need.

Then we're likely screwed. Vlade is the only meaningful free agent to ever actually want to sign with the Kings.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

i think if you had to choose between a top 3 pick and and mediocore 36-46(thats saying alot) season most REAL kings would take the pick


gilbert arenas had it right when he said he was hoping for the wizards to lose out for a good lotty pick

 

[vistacruza_kings]

and yea really, what GOOD free agent is gonna wanna come to sacramento. small market

 

[Amory]

kevin martin stay out as long as you need

miller maybe you could get in a hunting accident and be out for season.

reggie coach for more losses

Ummm, about that. Might want to edit this post....

 

[Kings Faithful]

Losing= unhappy fans (this is very evident, even if you say you want to lose). Unhappy fans= empty seats & coach firings. Empty seats and & coach firings= depressed and unhappy players=depressed & unhappy players=less work ethic & desire to leave. Less work ethic & desire to leave=crappy Kings team for years to come....unless you guys honestly think a #3-5 pick in a weak draft this year is going to dramatically change our team for the better, and ill go ahead and tell you its NOT. Right now winning games and making people happy is the best way to go, you saw how happy our guys were last night compared to the faces we saw at Denver last week. Falling 4-10 spots in a draft just isn't worth losing like that for the entire season.

 

[Prince_XY]

That the franchise has temporarily elevated itself to the .273 level?

Just because there was no "Fire Reggie!" thread after this one last game doesn't mean that we've completed rebuilding and suddenly have a championship caliber team now. It's going to be a couple more years before the team's very good, so you might as well sit back & enjoy the ride.

And who says rebuilding is definitely complete now?

Not me.

I don't get you. You don't have to tell me to sit back and relax coz I am the one who is sitting back and enjoying the ride here trying to be patient with what we have. I am not the one who is complaining about the kind of players we have now, but I do have some complaints about the slow process going on with regards to the development our young players and the development of right chemistry/identity of the team - which I think resulting mainly from the horrible substitution pattern we have.

Honestly, in all practicality because there really is no guarantee that we'll land somebody with a superstar talent at the coming draft as some would say and some people believing that a finished product like the likes of Howard, Kobe, Chris Paul, or Garnett wouldn't come in to play in Sacramento, if the doom-sayers are right, then our prospect of rebuilding and becoming an elite team seemed doomed using those two routes.

So, the most logical thing to do then for the time being is to fast-track the development our very own roster we currently have. And the prospect of success using this route is not unattainable. The current roster have shown they could win against the elite teams. There is no reason why they cannot win over and over again if they could be developed properly.

BTW, if you see those victories of the "not-fully-developed" Kings team against two elite teams as a half-empty glass, I'd rather see those victories as a half-filled glass.

Remember, these roster hasn't played a complete and healthy force that many games yet. It's always either we're missing one or two key players, or we have a horrible substitution pattern.

Gosh, why do people have to feel so pessimistic and inferior all the time?

Maybe this kind of fan-mentality are kinda robbing off to the players that is why we cannot win games.

 

[Prince_XY]

Well put.

Another fan feeling pessimistic and inferior.

 

[Amory]

Here is the thing. NO, a draft pick will not automatically change the team.

That being said, Think of what young talent we have for the next while (if we decide to keep them)...

JT
KM
Cisco
Greene
Hawes

Add a good PG (Jennings) and sign a superstar (I know this will be hard to get) and you have a pretty amazing team for the next 6 years, IMO.

So, this draft will not automatically change the team to make us amazing BUT add a good piece this year from the draft and get a good signing and we could be.

 

[Prince_XY]

If they can continue to put out this kind of effort every 9th game, then we've really got something here.

Well, not so pessimistic and inferior. Don't worry, there would come a time that we'll be winning every other game. And it will come soon enough if the coaching staff will do a good job.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

all you people that say a good draft pick cant change a team, YOUR WRONG! this isnt baseball or football where one player in the draft isnt going to really effect your team. just look at

patrick ewing with the knicks
dwight howard with the magic
david robinson and later tim duncan with the spurs
chris paul and the hornets
dwyane wade with the heat

looks like bulls are rebuilding around derrick rose

theres only 5 players on the court, 1 player could change alot.

 

[Bricklayer]

Losing= unhappy fans (this is very evident, even if you say you want to lose). Unhappy fans= empty seats & coach firings. Empty seats and & coach firings= depressed and unhappy players=depressed & unhappy players=less work ethic & desire to leave. Less work ethic & desire to leave=crappy Kings team for years to come....unless you guys honestly think a #3-5 pick in a weak draft this year is going to dramatically change our team for the better, and ill go ahead and tell you its NOT. Right now winning games and making people happy is the best way to go, you saw how happy our guys were last night compared to the faces we saw at Denver last week. Falling 4-10 spots in a draft just isn't worth losing like that for the entire season.

Um...yes it is.

You are watching the wrong sport for that argument. You can make that argument in football (as long as a franchsie QB is not sitting there at #1). You can make it in hockey or baseball, where the draft is practically a crapshoot. You can't make it in basketball. In basketball the draft, and securing star players in the draft, is almost 100% determinative of your long term fate. In no other pro sport does it matter as much. Not even close. And really in no other pro sport is there such a correlation with top draft picks and top production. Not 100%, or close to it. But your chances of landing a star player are 10x greater in the Top 5 than the next 5. 10 times greater than that in the 5 after that, and you just have to get flat out lucky once you get out of the lottery.

And all of this oft quoted "losing psychology" bunk is just that, bunk. Pop child psychology, and not even good pop child psychology. Almost every single great team in the league right now has had one or more miserable years in the recent past, and yet somehow, magically, they are now at the top of the league. Its funny how talent will do that for you. Losing culture or no. Gee, that losing psychology really hindered the Celtics last year didn't it? And those Hornets...man they only won 18 in 04-05 to snag Chris Paul. They'll never shake that off. Not sure how the Spurs are ever going to get over that 20 win season they had to snag Duncan. You can see how winning only 26 games to snag Deron Williams has just zapped the liefblood right out of Utah. And so on. Its just bunk. It sounds good but doesn't equate with reality in the NBA. Lose, load up on talent, win. Win, fans come back. Portland won 27, 21, 32 and 41 games in consecutive seasons. Their building is full. Their team is headed to the playoffs and its future. That's the NBA. Always has been the NBA. Probably always will be the NBA. There is a price for long term success. You have to suck it up and endure it.

 

[Prince_XY]

Then we're likely screwed. Vlade is the only meaningful free agent to ever actually want to sign with the Kings.

Not totally screwed. If we're able to do it with Vlade before, why in the hell can we not do it now?

 

[Dime Dropper]

Um...yes it is.

You are watching the wrong sport for that argument. You can make that argument in football (as long as a franchsie QB is not sitting there at #1). You can make it in hockey or baseball, where the draft is practically a crapshoot. You can't make it in basketball. In basketball the draft, and securing star players in the draft, is almost 100% determinative of your long term fate. In no other pro sport does it matter as much. Not even close. And really in no other pro sport is there such a correlation with top draft picks and top production. Not 100%, or close to it. But your chances of landing a star player are 10x greater in the Top 5 than the next 5. 10 times greater than that in the 5 after that, and you just have to get flat out lucky once you get out of the lottery.

And all of this oft quoted "losing psychology" bunk is just that, bunk. Pop child psychology, and not even good pop child psychology. Almost every single great team in the league right now has had one or more miserable years in the recent past, and yet somehow, magically, they are now at the top of the league. Its funny how talent will do that for you. Losing culture or no. Gee, that losing psychology really hindered the Celtics last year didn't it? And those Hornets...man they only won 18 in 04-05 to snag Chris Paul. They'll never shake that off. Not sure how the Spurs are ever going to get over that 20 win season they had to snag Duncan. You can see how winning only 26 games to snag Deron Williams has just zapped the liefblood right out of Utah. And so on. Its just bunk. It sounds good but doesn't equate with reality in the NBA. Lose, load up on talent, win. Win, fans come back. Portland won 27, 21, 32 and 41 games in consecutive seasons. Their building is full. Their team is headed to the playoffs and its future. That's the NBA. Always has been the NBA. Probably always will be the NBA. There is a price for long term success. You have to suck it up and endure it.

Best post I've seen on this forum in a long, long time. That's not a slight or anything to the forum, I just couldn't agree more with you on this.

Really bugs me how some people continue to ignore the reality of these things. This is certainly one subject you and I are on the same page.

 

[wonjaeyou]

Um...yes it is.

You are watching the wrong sport for that argument. You can make that argument in football (as long as a franchsie QB is not sitting there at #1). You can make it in hockey or baseball, where the draft is practically a crapshoot. You can't make it in basketball. In basketball the draft, and securing star players in the draft, is almost 100% determinative of your long term fate. In no other pro sport does it matter as much. Not even close. And really in no other pro sport is there such a correlation with top draft picks and top production. Not 100%, or close to it. But your chances of landing a star player are 10x greater in the Top 5 than the next 5. 10 times greater than that in the 5 after that, and you just have to get flat out lucky once you get out of the lottery.

And all of this oft quoted "losing psychology" bunk is just that, bunk. Pop child psychology, and not even good pop child psychology. Almost every single great team in the league right now has had one or more miserable years in the recent past, and yet somehow, magically, they are now at the top of the league. Its funny how talent will do that for you. Losing culture or no. Gee, that losing psychology really hindered the Celtics last year didn't it? And those Hornets...man they only won 18 in 04-05 to snag Chris Paul. They'll never shake that off. Not sure how the Spurs are ever going to get over that 20 win season they had to snag Duncan. You can see how winning only 26 games to snag Deron Williams has just zapped the liefblood right out of Utah. And so on. Its just bunk. It sounds good but doesn't equate with reality in the NBA. Lose, load up on talent, win. Win, fans come back. Portland won 27, 21, 32 and 41 games in consecutive seasons. Their building is full. Their team is headed to the playoffs and its future. That's the NBA. Always has been the NBA. Probably always will be the NBA. There is a price for long term success. You have to suck it up and endure it.

agree 120%

 

[Prince_XY]

Losing= unhappy fans (this is very evident, even if you say you want to lose). Unhappy fans= empty seats & coach firings. Empty seats and & coach firings= depressed and unhappy players=depressed & unhappy players=less work ethic & desire to leave. Less work ethic & desire to leave=crappy Kings team for years to come....unless you guys honestly think a #3-5 pick in a weak draft this year is going to dramatically change our team for the better, and ill go ahead and tell you its NOT. Right now winning games and making people happy is the best way to go, you saw how happy our guys were last night compared to the faces we saw at Denver last week. Falling 4-10 spots in a draft just isn't worth losing like that for the entire season.

That is what I call realism.

I myself don't want these things to happen.

I think this is also the best way to go. Try to WIN games and go from there.

Bravo!

 

[LPKingsFan]

Um...yes it is.

You are watching the wrong sport for that argument. You can make that argument in football (as long as a franchsie QB is not sitting there at #1). You can make it in hockey or baseball, where the draft is practically a crapshoot. You can't make it in basketball. In basketball the draft, and securing star players in the draft, is almost 100% determinative of your long term fate. In no other pro sport does it matter as much. Not even close. And really in no other pro sport is there such a correlation with top draft picks and top production. Not 100%, or close to it. But your chances of landing a star player are 10x greater in the Top 5 than the next 5. 10 times greater than that in the 5 after that, and you just have to get flat out lucky once you get out of the lottery.

And all of this oft quoted "losing psychology" bunk is just that, bunk. Pop child psychology, and not even good pop child psychology. Almost every single great team in the league right now has had one or more miserable years in the recent past, and yet somehow, magically, they are now at the top of the league. Its funny how talent will do that for you. Losing culture or no. Gee, that losing psychology really hindered the Celtics last year didn't it? And those Hornets...man they only won 18 in 04-05 to snag Chris Paul. They'll never shake that off. Not sure how the Spurs are ever going to get over that 20 win season they had to snag Duncan. You can see how winning only 26 games to snag Deron Williams has just zapped the liefblood right out of Utah. And so on. Its just bunk. It sounds good but doesn't equate with reality in the NBA. Lose, load up on talent, win. Win, fans come back. Portland won 27, 21, 32 and 41 games in consecutive seasons. Their building is full. Their team is headed to the playoffs and its future. That's the NBA. Always has been the NBA. Probably always will be the NBA. There is a price for long term success. You have to suck it up and endure it.

Yes, but all those teams did have some sense of continuity in coaching and upper management (Pop, Sloan, McMillian, heck, even Byron Scott) . I'm not saying there is such a thing as a "losing psychology" but the teams that have successfully rebuilt themselves have retained their organizational focus, and winning culture. Teams that haven't (The Clippers, Hawks, etc) are the perennial losers. And, if you look at history, we've been more in the later crew than the former. We're two--nearly three--coaches removed from our winning ways. This win was huge because it kept Theus his job (for now) and showed the guys there's a chance to win on any given night. Reggie may not be the final answer on the bench, but I'm happy the distraction about a possible coaching change is gone for now. Now, all we need to do is trade Miller for a rebuilding package, continue to play hard, and let the wins and losses fall where they may.

 

[Prince_XY]

Losing= unhappy fans (this is very evident, even if you say you want to lose). Unhappy fans= empty seats & coach firings. Empty seats and & coach firings= depressed and unhappy players=depressed & unhappy players=less work ethic & desire to leave. Less work ethic & desire to leave=crappy Kings team for years to come....unless you guys honestly think a #3-5 pick in a weak draft this year is going to dramatically change our team for the better, and ill go ahead and tell you its NOT. Right now winning games and making people happy is the best way to go, you saw how happy our guys were last night compared to the faces we saw at Denver last week. Falling 4-10 spots in a draft just isn't worth losing like that for the entire season.

To Bricklayer and Co.

I think you guys missed the whole point above when you responded to him. All the things you point out are right, but the problem is you misunderstood the person you quoted.

Maybe?

Maybe not?

I think it is better to prove first that next year's draft will have Superstar talents like the ones in your examples ( Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, and Deron Williams ) before we even say we don't agree with the post. As I understand it, he is also willing to lose games IF we are guaranteed to have those kind of Superstar talents you are talking about.

Your post just look like very misleading proving something which is not the whole point of Kings Faithful.

I don't know. Maybe I am wrong. I just want to clarify things.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Yeah, thats my point XY, and I agree with LP as well.

Drafts can change a team right off the bat, you are right guys. Chances that it will change our team right off the bat? Not real good. I dont mind losing honestly and getting this pick, but purposely throwing games just isn't cool and i think it ruins the integrity of the game. If we are 2 games out of last place in the league with 10 games left thats another question, but starting at a time like now with the LOSE EVERY GAME mentality just isn't right to me. O yeah, and the reason the Celtics weren't hindered was because they added 2 all-stars to a their, team...not because they drafted "the next Jesus".

 

[kings4lyfe32]

get real kings fans. were not going to win a championship this year. i know there are still some of you out there thinking we can make the playoffs, but we cant! even if we did grab the 8th seed, we would be out 1st or 2nd round. our team is not built for playoffs yet.

And I thought Ron Artest had been traded??

 

[Kings Faithful]

Yes, but all those teams did have some sense of continuity in coaching and upper management (Pop, Sloan, McMillian, heck, even Byron Scott) . I'm not saying there is such a thing as a "losing psychology" but the teams that have successfully rebuilt themselves have retained their organizational focus, and winning culture. Teams that haven't (The Clippers, Hawks, etc) are the perennial losers. And, if you look at history, we've been more in the later crew than the former. We're two--nearly three--coaches removed from our winning ways. This win was huge because it kept Theus his job (for now) and showed the guys there's a chance to win on any given night. Reggie may not be the final answer on the bench, but I'm happy the distraction about a possible coaching change is gone for now. Now, all we need to do is trade Miller for a rebuilding package, continue to play hard, and let the wins and losses fall where they may.

I also think we need to trade someone, maby even for a higher spot in the draft. As long as we play hard and win big like last night once in a while, i don't care what happens this season. In fact what i might be most partial to is trading someone like Miller or Salmons for another young role player and mabye a higher first round pick to give us 3 picks to work with. I know the draft helps, im not denying it, im just saying we need to stay with a winning mindset instead of accepting that we suck and giving up. Its defeatist.

 

[fnordius]

And who says rebuilding is definitely complete now?

Not me.

I don't get you. You don't have to tell me to sit back and relax coz I am the one who is sitting back and enjoying the ride here trying to be patient with what we have.

Hey, me too. Even when the team's losing like mad, I'm content. It's getting better, and, with some work from GP and a bit of luck, it will keep on getting better.

I am not the one who is complaining about the kind of players we have now

Me either, aside from vets who won't be a part of our future. I like all of the younger players, they're what keeps me watching.

but I do have some complaints about the slow process going on with regards to the development our young players and the development of right chemistry/identity of the team - which I think resulting mainly from the horrible substitution pattern we have.

That is a factor, but don't overlook the fact that you're talking about a lot of green players. Nobody's in peak NBA form at age 20.

Honestly, in all practicality because there really is no guarantee that we'll land somebody with a superstar talent at the coming draft as some would say and some people believing that a finished product like the likes of Howard, Kobe, Chris Paul, or Garnett wouldn't come in to play in Sacramento, if the doom-sayers are right, then our prospect of rebuilding and becoming an elite team seemed doomed using those two routes.

I'm not expecting any superstars, I totally don't know where you're getting that from. I just want another solid piece to fit into place this summer, and there's nothing unrealistic about that. So I'm optimistic. I'm not *cough* the one who's being a doomsayer about the impossibility of it all.

So, the most logical thing to do then for the time being is to fast-track the development our very own roster we currently have.

We can do both, and should.

And the prospect of success using this route is not unattainable. The current roster have shown they could win against the elite teams. There is no reason why they cannot win over and over again if they could be developed properly.

Even the worst teams occasionally win one over much stronger teams. We used to do it sometimes back in the Mitch Richmond days, but that didn't mean that we just needed to develop the players a bit more. It meant that we had a crappy, inconsistent team that still had a few inspired games. Don't read too much into it.

BTW, if you see those victories of the "not-fully-developed" Kings team against two elite teams as a half-empty glass, I'd rather see those victories as a half-filled glass.

I see them as signs of potential, and a half-full glass. But I want it to be more than half full.

Gosh, why do people have to feel so pessimistic and inferior all the time?

Nobody is posting that they feel that way. Most of those who want more rebuild are downright optimistic. Anything you're claiming as pessimism is probably based on mistaken perception... or ill-advised rhetoric.

Maybe this kind of fan-mentality are kinda robbing off to the players that is why we cannot win games.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

just to lightin the mood

anybody see mikki moores comment in the sac bee about how he thought the coaching staff benched him to try for a higher lotty pick.

bahahahahahahahahahaah

EARTH TO MIKKI, were not a better team with u in the lineup

 

[fnordius]

I think it is better to prove first that next year's draft will have Superstar talents like the ones in your examples ( Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, and Deron Williams )...

It's obviously impossible to prove anything about a bunch of 18 and 19 year old NBA wannabes, and demanding the impossible isn't going to win any arguments.

I would point out, however, that the last time that there wasn't an all-star in the top 4 picks was in 1976. Odds would seem very much in favor of there being one in any year.

 

[AleksandarN]

Yeah, thats my point XY, and I agree with LP as well.

Drafts can change a team right off the bat, you are right guys. Chances that it will change our team right off the bat? Not real good. I dont mind losing honestly and getting this pick, but purposely throwing games just isn't cool and i think it ruins the integrity of the game. If we are 2 games out of last place in the league with 10 games left thats another question, but starting at a time like now with the LOSE EVERY GAME mentality just isn't right to me. O yeah, and the reason the Celtics weren't hindered was because they added 2 all-stars to a their, team...not because they drafted "the next Jesus".

How did they get their 2 all-stars. IIRC they traded their young players and picks to get them. So if we go by your example getting high draft picks can lead to getting enough assets to get the all stars we need to complete for a Championship.

 

[Entity]

agree 120%

I just don't know if I want to be the guy getting league pass every year and sitting in my recliner and hoping my team loses every game so I can get I higher draft pick for 3,4,5... years to come hoping Lebron, Duncan, Kobe is in the next draft. When you might get Bowie, Bargnani, Darko, Olowakandi That just sucks. I'd rather make some smart trades.


BTW I still think there will be more than 1 or 2 players in last years class better than Beasley.

 

[RIP miyagi]

I'm tired of people saying how weak the draft is. The college season is barely under way and we don't know what players could emerge throughout the season. Has anyone seen how much mock drafts change over the matter of a couple of months? Its funny how all off-season, everybody was waiting for the games to start and now that the season has started, we can't wait until the off-season. LAWL!