Gerald Wallace?

[Bricklayer]

Ok, let's set aside the question of why the Bobcats would even consider our cast-off for Wallace, but what can GW do for us in the present and immediate future?

His presence will help us be competitive enough to miss the playoff but not bad enough to land a high draft pick. Basically a repeat of last season. Meanwhile his $10 mil per year salary will be on the book for 5 seasons. It further clogs the wing position and essentially forces you to unload either Salmons or Garcia on the cheap to make room. It also takes away what limited opportunity there is for Donte Greene.

Not to mention it throws the whole rebuilding thing completely out of whack.

GW is not the king of player you trade for unless you're in a "win now" mode.

Gerald just turned 26 a few months ago. He no more throws a rebuild out of whack then Kevin or Cisco does. He would be part of the rebuild.

And obviously he replaces the considerably older Salmons (29) in the rotation. So you possibly end up with something like:

PG - Beno - 26
PG/OG - Brown - 20
OG - Kevin - 25
OG/SF - Cisco -27
SF/OG/PF - Wallace -26
SF/PF - Greene - 20
PF/C - Thompson - 22
C/PF - Hawes - 20
C - Thabeet - 21

Going forward. Which looks awfully like a rebuild to me.

 

[Prince_XY]

His presence will help us be competitive enough to miss the playoff but not bad enough to land a high draft pick. Basically a repeat of last season. Meanwhile his $10 mil per year salary will be on the book for 5 seasons. It further clogs the wing position and essentially forces you to unload either Salmons or Garcia on the cheap to make room. It also takes away what limited opportunity there is for Donte Greene.

Not to mention it throws the whole rebuilding thing completely out of whack.

GW is not the king of player you trade for unless you're in a "win now" mode.

It won't throw away the rebuilding thing if we get Wallace, but rather it will more or less mark its completion. But I have to agree that we need to get rid 2 of the 3 ( Martin, Salmons, and/or Garcia ) just so we can unclogged the swing position and make room for Greene to fluorish.

Wallace stats last season will tell you all : 19.5pts 9.3rebs 1.8ast 2.0stl and 1.0blk.

I don't know if either Martin, Salmons, and/or Garcia combined can beat Wallace's almost franchise player kind of stats. I believe all the three should be considered dispensable when we talk about getting Wallace.

I can envision the Kings as a playoff team next year, and an elite team in 2-3 years time with Wallace around :

#5 Miller ( 7' 0" ) or Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#4 Thompson ( 6' 11" ) or Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#3 Greene ( 6' 11" ) or Thompson ( 6' 11" )
#2 Wallace ( 6' 7" ) SUB: Garcia or Salmons
#1 Brown ( 6' 2" ) or Udrih ( 6' 3" )

Now, that is a very tall and talented fronline to support Wallace.

Why would we need next year's draft if we get Wallace NOW?

 

[beb0p]

Gerald just turned 26 a few months ago. He no more throws a rebuild out of whack then Kevin or Cisco does. He would be part of the rebuild.

And obviously he replaces the considerably older (29) in the rotation. So you possibly end up with something like:

PG - Beno - 26
PG/OG - Brown - 20
OG - Kevin - 25
OG/SF - Cisco -27
SF/OG/PF - Wallace -26
SF/PF - Greene - 20
PF/C - Thompson - 22
C/PF - Hawes - 20
C - Thabeet - 21

Going forward. Which looks awfully like a rebuild to me.

Except GW would hinder the one thing we absolutely need - a high draft pick.

Keep in mind this rebuild is a 4-5 year process unless we get really luck and draft the next Lebron James. In 4-5 years, Martin will be close to 30 but the other players will be in their mid-20s. Throw GW in there and essentially you'll have to find a replacement for him when the time comes for us to be competitive again.

Getting GW is not a rebuild, it's a patch; not unlike several other patches pull off by Petrie. GW's game is based entirely on athleticism, and this is the type of player who declines rapidly soon after they hit 30. You're looking at probably 4-5 more years of Wallace before he turns into Tyrone Corbin. Which means he's most productive during the years when we least require it.

 

[beb0p]

It won't throw away the rebuilding thing if we get Wallace, but rather it will more or less mark its completion. But I have to agree that we need to get rid 2 of the 3 ( Martin, Salmons, and/or Garcia ) just so we can unclogged the swing position and make room for Greene to fluorish.

Wallace stats last season will tell you all : 19.5pts 9.3rebs 1.8ast 2.0stl and 1.0blk.

I don't know if either Martin, Salmons, and/or Garcia combined can beat Wallace's almost franchise player kind of stats. I believe all the three should be considered dispensable when we talk about getting Wallace.

I can envision the Kings as a playoff team next year, and an elite team in 2-3 years time with Wallace around :

#5 Miller ( 7' 0" ) or Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#4 Thompson ( 6' 11" ) or Hawes ( 7' 0" )
#3 Greene ( 6' 11" ) or Thompson ( 6' 11" )
#2 Wallace ( 6' 7" ) SUB: Garcia or Salmons
#1 Brown ( 6' 2" ) or Udrih ( 6' 3" )

Now, that is a very tall and talented fronline to support Wallace.

Why would we need next year's draft if we get Wallace NOW?

You are, if nothing else, an optimist. I guess the problem is I'm a realist. And in reality, Gerald Wallace is a very good player, but he is nowhere near a franchise player.

The only reason GW has that kind of stats is because he played on a very bad team. I find it funny that so many people thinks Larry Brown and Michael Jordan doesn't know a franchise player when they see one. If GW is anywhere close to as good as some of y'all is making him out to be, we would not be having this discussion.

If getting GW is a good idea, why trade Artest in the first place? Artest is the better player, he has just as many productive years left as Wallace, and he is by far the more fierce competitor and the healthier player.

I guess in the post-election period, all I can saw is stick to game plan (like Obama), don't do a McCain and veer off course or otherwise try crazy and impulsive tactic that will come back to haunt you.

 

[Bricklayer]

First, quite obviosuly dumping Ron was about getting rid of Ron's head, not his talent. No rebuilding team can tolerate such a loon running around cluelessly breaking everything in his path and not even realizing he is doing it.

Second, you can't simultaneously argue that Gerald is not an impact player...and that he is somehow going to have enough impact to make us too competitive to get a high pick. Either one or the other, but not both.

Third, Gerald numbers do not have the stain of good number on bad team. If anything, the one spot his current team is strong and deep at are the swingmen spots. He does not put up numbers by shooting some ridiculous number of shots., He grabs rebounds, steals balls, blocks shots, and excepting last year, when for the first time he added a decent 3pt shot to his arsenal, he shoots 50% every year. Good number on bad team guys are typically guys getting shots they otherwise would or should not, or minutes they otherwise would not. Gerald is neither.

Fourth, there is no reason why a rebuild would take 4-5 years from where we are today. If indeed we have our futrue starting frontcourt, our future starting OG, and added Gerald as our future starting SF, its largely done. A lottery pick this year, likely one next year, and a FA either this summer or next (depending on how we play the Brad/Mikki/Kenny/Salmons contracts), and there you are.

Fifth, there is no obvious LeBron in this draft. If there were I would walk out onto the practice court and start shooting our guys in the legs in order to land him. But there's not. We will get a good pick whether Gerald is here or not, assuming of course that we are moving Salmons and someone to land him. Think the real key is moving Brad Miller. And in any case the question (fairly easy to answer) becomes whether we are better off for our future with John Salmons and the #3 pick, or Gerald Wallace and the #6. In this draft, that gap isn't there. Now if it means picking #12 again, or making a run at #8, I'm upset, but then again if that's true Gerald must be a helluva lot better player than I think he is, and maybe he's worth it anyway as a superstar.

 

[kupman]

I would rather hang-on to our big terminating contracts until 2010 and use all that cash to try and lure a great talent here. A true all-star if you will. There are some big names that year. If they all say no to big cash in the best b-ball town in the league, then fine - we can always get a GW caliber player with less money.

 

[AleksandarN]

On Dec. The Kings trade


Shelden Williams
6-9 PF from Duke
7.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.4 minutes

John Salmons
6-6 SG from Miami-Fla.
16.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.2 apg in 37.3 minutes

Beno Udrih
6-3 PG from Slovenia (Foreign)
7.0 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.4 apg in 28.0 minutes

Rockets 1 st round pick

For

Raymond Felton
6-0 PG from North Carolina
9.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 5.0 apg in 32.0 minutes

Gerald Wallace
6-7 SG / SF from Alabama
19.5 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.8 apg in 39.9 minutes

 

[NME]

Done. Now, who's got the compromising photos of Charlotte's front office?

 

[AleksandarN]

Done. Now, who's got the compromising photos of Charlotte's front office?

i am just saying that Charlotte is disappointed in Raymond Felton. We could also give them a protected 1st aswell to sweeten the deal.

 

[beb0p]

First, quite obviosuly dumping Ron was about getting rid of Ron's head, not his talent.

Second, you can't simultaneously argue that Gerald is not an impact player...and that he is somehow going to have enough impact to make us too competitive to get a high pick. Either one or the other, but not both.

Third, Gerald numbers do not have the stain of good number on bad team.

Fourth, there is no reason why a rebuild would take 4-5 years from where we are today.

Fifth, there is no obvious LeBron in this draft.

First, we traded Artest because of his head... and because his talent is not needed in a rebuilding team. GW's head may be better screwed on than Artest but we no more need GW's talent than we need Artest's.

Second, I never argued that GW is not an impact player. I said he isn't a near-franchise players as some of you suggested. There's a big difference between the two.

Third, there's a myth that players who benefit playing on bad teams tend to have low FG%. That's not always the case, see John Salmons. Put GW on a better team and there's no way he get those stats because good teams would not allow him to always gamble on defense, or leak out for the fast break points, or forces the issue to the tune of 5+ turnovers a game, or make him the #2 scoring option. GW would not be the fantasy stud that he is if he plays on a championship-calibre team. I think that's very obvious.

Fourth, I think some of us need to adjust our expectation.

Fifth, I already implied the chance of us getting the next Lebron is unlikely. Still, with or without the next Lebron in this draft, or future drafts, we need a high draft pick. Bringing in GW will turn us into... the Charlotte Bobcats!! Think of the Bobcats; a so-so PG, a stud SG, GW at SF, a scrub and a youngster sharing the PF, and a stable but unspectecular guy at C. That's the Bobcats, and it will be us if we trade for GW.

A future line-up of Martin, Wallace, Thompson, and Hawes leave us with no franchise player and at-best an 8th seeder. But we'll be entertaining. Maybe that's good enough for some of y'all.

And did I mention you basically throw the whole "get a high draft-pick" into the mud? A mid to late lottery pick, for the duration of Wallace's tenure, is going to do a lot of good, right?

 

[beb0p]

First, quite obviosuly dumping Ron was about getting rid of Ron's head, not his talent.

Second, you can't simultaneously argue that Gerald is not an impact player...and that he is somehow going to have enough impact to make us too competitive to get a high pick. Either one or the other, but not both.

Third, Gerald numbers do not have the stain of good number on bad team.

Fourth, there is no reason why a rebuild would take 4-5 years from where we are today.

Fifth, there is no obvious LeBron in this draft.

First, we traded Artest because of his head... and because his talent is not needed in a rebuilding team. GW's head may be better screwed on than Artest but we no more need GW's talent than we need Artest's.

Second, I never argued that GW is not an impact player. I said he isn't a near-franchise players as some of you suggested. There's a big difference between the two.

Third, there's a myth that players who benefit playing on bad teams tend to have low FG%. That's not always the case, see John Salmons. Put GW on a better team and there's no way he get those stats because good teams would not allow him to always gamble on defense, or leak out for the fast break points, or forces the issue to the tune of 5+ turnovers a game, or make him the #2 scoring option. GW would not be the fantasy stud that he is if he plays on a championship-calibre team. I think that's very obvious.

Fourth, I think some of us need to adjust our expectation.

Fifth, I already implied the chance of us getting the next Lebron is unlikely. Still, with or without the next Lebron in this draft, or future drafts, we need a high draft pick. Bringing in GW will turn us into... the Charlotte Bobcats!! Think of the Bobcats; a so-so PG, a stud SG, GW at SF, a scrub and a youngster sharing the PF, and a stable but unspectecular guy at C. That's the Bobcats, and it will be us if we trade for GW.

a future line-up of Martin, Wallace, Thompson, and Hawes leave us with no franchise player and at-best an 8th seeder. But we'll be entertaining. Maybe that's what some of y'all are striving for.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Charlotte's willing to consider an Eddy Curry for Wallace swap?

I didn't know things were so bad in Bobcats land. If the Bobcats are willing to take on Curry, we should immediately offer Brad in the mix. This is a no brainer, IMO.

And if NYC doesn't want to take on any deals past 2010, well we've got Brad's convenient 2010 expiring deal, as well as Kenny...

 

[nbrans]

Charlotte's willing to consider an Eddy Curry for Wallace swap?

I didn't know things were so bad in Bobcats land. If the Bobcats are willing to take on Curry, we should immediately offer Brad in the mix. This is a no brainer, IMO.

And if NYC doesn't want to take on any deals past 2010, well we've got Brad's convenient 2010 expiring deal, as well as Kenny...

We could put together any number of attractive deals for the Knicks, whether it's Brad or Moore/Shelden, either of which would help them with their goal of clearing cap room for 2010.

The problem is, what in the heck are we going to do with Salmons/Garcia/Wallace? I guess Salmons is the odd man out in that troika, so you'd really have to trade him.

 

[LPKingsFan]

We could put together any number of attractive deals for the Knicks, whether it's Brad or Moore/Shelden, either of which would help them with their goal of clearing cap room for 2010.

The problem is, what in the heck are we going to do with Salmons/Garcia/Wallace? I guess Salmons is the odd man out in that troika, so you'd really have to trade him.

Which isn't the end of the world, right? Unless we see Salmons (29) as a long term answer, which I don't. Brick's chart earlier in the thread looks pretty good to me. And if we're ever going to trade Salmons before he gets too old, now, with his numbers high from starting, would seem to be it.

 

[Gary]

Meh.. Not a huge fan of Wallace outside of chanting his name to give him garbage minutes a few years back.

I have watched him play a lot since he moved to Charlotte and he isn't the type of player we need. We really need two guys that can hit 3s consistently, and right now Martin is our only guy (at the F, or G position) that shoots with any bit of accuracy. Bring Wallace into the mix and we will have a clogged lane.

 

[LPKingsFan]

We really need two guys that can hit 3s consistently, and right now Martin is our only guy (at the F, or G position) that shoots with any bit of accuracy. Bring Wallace into the mix and we will have a clogged lane.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

I have watched him play a lot since he moved to Charlotte and he isn't the type of player we need. We really need two guys that can hit 3s consistently, and right now Martin is our only guy (at the F, or G position) that shoots with any bit of accuracy. Bring Wallace into the mix and we will have a clogged lane.

 

[hrdboild]

Reasons why we need Gerald Wallace:

1) He can fly!

<--------

2) You need another reason?

Sorry, just testing my new avatar. Carry on then.

 

[Bricklayer]

Meh.. Not a huge fan of Wallace outside of chanting his name to give him garbage minutes a few years back.

I have watched him play a lot since he moved to Charlotte and he isn't the type of player we need. We really need two guys that can hit 3s consistently, and right now Martin is our only guy (at the F, or G position) that shoots with any bit of accuracy. Bring Wallace into the mix and we will have a clogged lane.

Martin
Cisco
Beno
Brown
Douby
and one day in theory Greene

To the contrary, as usual we are composed almost entirely of nothing but guys who can shoot. What we need is exactly the opposite of our normal traveling band of jumpshooting weenies -- we need somebody who can do everything else.

 

[nbrans]

Martin
Cisco
Beno
Brown
Douby
and one day in theory Greene

To the contrary, as usual we are composed almost entirely of nothing but guys who can shoot. What we need is exactly the opposite of our normal traveling band of jumpshooting weenies -- we need somebody who can do everything else.

I would only amend slightly in that to be a true contender the Kings are going to need someone who can get their own shot. We have plenty of jump shooters, not someone who can get a high percentage shot off consistently in crunch time. Martin's still not there yet and is uncertain to get there, so the next logical position for that is at the 3.

Still not a reason to scuttle a Wallace trade, but we're going to need a true offensive first banana somewhere.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I would only amend slightly in that to be a true contender the Kings are going to need someone who can get their own shot. We have plenty of jump shooters, not someone who can get a high percentage shot off consistently in crunch time. Martin's still not there yet and is uncertain to get there, so the next logical position for that is at the 3.

Still not a reason to scuttle a Wallace trade, but we're going to need a true offensive first banana somewhere.

If Theus is capable of implementing a version of the triangle, a player capable of creating his own shot isn't a necessity. The final pass goes to a player who's movement has allowed his defender to be picked, and therefore he is open and moving to his spot for a jumper or to the rim. But, what will be needed is a dependable 3 pt shooter to punish attempts to double team or help the triangle.

I don't know who is best for the Kings Wallace or Salmons, but I suspect Salmons will opt out of his contract next year looking for a big raise and a long extention. So, from a financial point, they may end up costing about the same. But, Wallace is younger, so I give the edge to Wallace.

 

[Emma]

Crash scares the heck out of me, dude has one more concussion and it may be game over. His body may be younger but his head has got to be spun a little further than John's.

 

[nbrans]

If Theus is capable of implementing a version of the triangle, a player capable of creating his own shot isn't a necessity. The final pass goes to a player who's movement has allowed his defender to be picked, and therefore he is open and moving to his spot for a jumper or to the rim. But, what will be needed is a dependable 3 pt shooter to punish attempts to double team or help the triangle.

I don't know who is best for the Kings Wallace or Salmons, but I suspect Salmons will opt out of his contract next year looking for a big raise and a long extention. So, from a financial point, they may end up costing about the same. But, Wallace is younger, so I give the edge to Wallace.

That's all well and good for the first 47 minutes of a game, but come crunch time you need someone who doesn't need a fancy pass to get a good shot. That was really an Achilles heels even in the glory days for the Kings. I really like Wallace, but I don't yet trust Martin to hit big shots when the defense tightens up. Talking about contention is obviously way way way premature, but they are going to have to have someone who can get that shot if they are going to have true hopes.

 

[HighTopKicks]

That's all well and good for the first 47 minutes of a game, but come crunch time you need someone who doesn't need a fancy pass to get a good shot. That was really an Achilles heels even in the glory days for the Kings. I really like Wallace, but I don't yet trust Martin to hit big shots when the defense tightens up. Talking about contention is obviously way way way premature, but they are going to have to have someone who can get that shot if they are going to have true hopes.

Certainly, that type of player is valuable as a final option even when the triangle is run to perfection. It was in the case of the Bulls during the Phil Jackson era.

 

[gilly420]

Too much risk ...

GW is a very good player

so much fun to watch

adds a level of hustle and defense

and would be an improvment over JS at the 3



that said, he is way too much of an injury risk to take. he plays with a reckless abandon and is likely to get hurt again bad. another serious concussion and the docs will be talking him into shutting it down while collecting the rest of the 30-40 million he is owed.


The real question is whether or not were trading Brad, and what can we get for him. I would hope for a starting pg and a number 1.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I particularly liked G-Wall a lot during our glory years, but now that he's sort of a known commodity in the league it seems to lessen that intrigue a bit--in fact, it seems like the Cats are arguably even devaluing him as he was a steal and blockmeister in the past couple of years--outside of wings like Kirilenko and Marion, very few players can actually do that. I think a lot of the intrigue stemmed from his ability to make surprising plays--blocks out of nowhere, body down first type steals, showboating type dunks in transition. However, at least to me, it seems that his crash and risk-it-all sort of gameface seems to have suggested that he's already hit his athletic peak; I remember those times where he would be a dominant rebounder, but now, his defensive/hustle athletic markers--steals, blocks, rebounds are all down. Of course he's still a fringe star sort of player--has a funky but semiserviceable jumpshot now, can kill you with backdoor alley oops, and still brings that defensive intensity that had made opponents fear him sheerly by reputation. But the intrigue which stemmed from his extreme youth and his intense desire in the past has now waned, and yes, while he's only 26 and hasn't deteriorated athletically into a Ricky Davis type level yet, I can see a mild decline.

 

[hrdboild]

I particularly liked G-Wall a lot during our glory years, but now that he's sort of a known commodity in the league it seems to lessen that intrigue a bit--in fact, it seems like the Cats are arguably even devaluing him as he was a steal and blockmeister in the past couple of years--outside of wings like Kirilenko and Marion, very few players can actually do that. I think a lot of the intrigue stemmed from his ability to make surprising plays--blocks out of nowhere, body down first type steals, showboating type dunks in transition. However, at least to me, it seems that his crash and risk-it-all sort of gameface seems to have suggested that he's already hit his athletic peak; I remember those times where he would be a dominant rebounder, but now, his defensive/hustle athletic markers--steals, blocks, rebounds are all down. Of course he's still a fringe star sort of player--has a funky but semiserviceable jumpshot now, can kill you with backdoor alley oops, and still brings that defensive intensity that had made opponents fear him sheerly by reputation. But the intrigue which stemmed from his extreme youth and his intense desire in the past has now waned, and yes, while he's only 26 and hasn't deteriorated athletically into a Ricky Davis type level yet, I can see a mild decline.

The rebounding numbers are all over the place because he's been moving back and forth between positions. His best rebounding year was when Okafor missed most of the season and Wallace was playing PF with Primoz Brezec (yup, look it up) as the starting C. His overall numbers are trending up with the exception of that one season and the hustle stats are pretty consistent except for the 2 block season (again, without Okafor at PF). He's up to about 1 3ppg now and the FT% has improved consistently as well, a good indication of an improved jumpshot. The FG% has gone down as he's getting more and more points from the perimeter, which is to be expected.

From watching games last season and a couple already this season, I don't think he's lacking any athleticism at all. The difference in his game comes from a more refined attitude towards offense -- spacing the floor, looking to make plays for his teammates -- as he's been increasingly relied upon as a veteran presence on a very very young team. That means his turnovers have gone up a bit and his offensive rebounding down a bit, but that's what comes from assuming a bigger role in your team's offense. He still has the athleticism in bursts but it isn't all he has now so he uses it more sparingly.

I think what you get with Gerald Wallace is a phenomenal athlete with a good work-ethic (I think Petrie's been proven wrong in that regard) and a developing skill set who's just entering his prime. And he plays all-out on defense every play. Think Tayshaun Prince. Maybe not a franchise player, but an elite level glue guy who's penchant for ridiculous gravity-defying blocks would probably have made him a star by now if he played anywhere other than the black hole of basketball that Charlotte has become. (Seriously. What a crummy franchise. I wanted to root for this team, I keep trying, but they're so inept that it's almost impossible. The few hundred people who actually show up for their games have more patience than I would. Or maybe they just come to see 'Crash' do his thing.)