George Karl, Mark Jackson or ??? (merged)

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#211
#211
KingsFanGER said:
There is no established formula to winning besides playing to the strength of your roster. Honestly i understand the Motivation oft our FO. The more you watch other NBA Teams the more it becomes obvious, that every Team plays at a faster pace and no Team relied on postups to the extent the Kings did under Malone.
Even the often mentioned Grizzlies run a ton of pick&rolls with Gasol and Conley, set screens to get Lee open shots and don't use their old fashioned pound it inside playstyle as much as in the recent years. Randolph is basically their 3rd option, they added shooting to the roster and Gasol trimmed his weight down for a reason.
After all they altered their playstyle, cause it was so predictable. Now they are faster, Conley has a much bigger role, they move the ball much better and they are overall a much more dangerous team, cause their defense is still stellar.

So I understand what PDA most likely wants to achieve. I just don't agree with the steps he has taken, to actually get it done. It took the Grizzlies years and a couple of roster moves to alter their playstyle. We are trying to get it done within one season, while the real focus this year should have been to establish asolid defense. Kings FO is way to impatient and tries to skip steps in the development of the Team.
That looks really risky to me, cause the players and Fans could turn away from the FO, due to frustration.
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Alas the whole premise of this post is off, which is something you would never know listening to our front office spin doctors. There is NO correlation between pace and winning. And we were NOT a slow paced team. In fact I think at the time of the firing we were 14th, dead middle.

Which brings us back to unrealistic numbnuts with a Golden State Warriors myopia.

Here are the top 10 pace teams in the NBA:

1) Golden State (yay! Golden State! ooh! My pants feel gooey!)
2) Boston
3) Philadelphia
4) Phoenix
5) Denver
6) Minnesota
7) Lakers
8) Rockets
9) Clippers
10) Milwaulkee

So I mean, obviously, the key to winning is pace. :rolleyes:

Or we can get down to the REAL issue -- the key to emulating Golden State is pace. Because, Golden State and all that. Maybe someday Sacramento will get lucky enough to have some owners who have more basketball than a garden gnome.

P.S. we are currently 16th -- dead middle. The Spurs are currently 17th. Not a bad neighborhood.
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#212
#212
Bricklayer said:
Alas the whole premise of this post is off. There is NO correlation between pace and winning. And we were NOT a slow paced team. In fact I think at the time of the firing we were 14th, dead middle.

Which brings us back to unrealistic numbnuts with a Golden State Warriors myopia.

Here are the top 10 pace teams in the NBA:

1) Golden State (yay! Golden State! ooh! My pants feel gooey!)
2) Boston
3) Philadelphia
4) Phoenix
5) Denver
6) Minnesota
7) Lakers
8) Rockets
9) Clippers
10) Milwaulkee

So I mean, obviously, the key to winning is pace. :rolleyes:

Or we can get down to the REAL issue -- the key to emulating Golden State is pace. Because, Golden State and all that. Maybe someday Sacramento will get lucky enough to have some owners who have more basketball than a garden gnome.
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EXACTLY! It's as if Malone had his guys walk up the floor and take 20 seconds off the clock before they shot the ball! That's the narrative put forth by the brilliant front office. It's totally false!
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#213
#213
Prince_XY said:
Can you blame him if he really thinks that way? After all, it would not be the fans who will get judged at the end of every season.

Also, I don't know anybody among us FANS having any meaningful experience in any NBA front office. Maybe a lot of us want to be in or pretend to know more, but has anyone in this board really done any NBA front office job?

Have you?
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One thing is for sure, there's far less pressure in judging a decision, than in making one. That's why there's no shortage of arm chair GM"s. However, you don't have to have experience making a movie to pass judgement on how good or bad a movie is. The difference is, none of us would pretend to know the first thing about making a movie. But, we all seem to think, we not only know what the Kings should do, but every thought that passes through the minds of PDA and Vivek. Somehow we know that Vivek sat for hours and tried to talk Mullins into coaching the Kings. We seem to know that the Kings are too cheap to pay Karl's asking price. We seem to know that Vivek wanting to play 4 on 5, is in the future plans of the Kings, and not just some humorous comment thrown out by Vivek as an abstract thought to make a point about thinking outside the box.

Rumors are fun, and promote one thread after the other on this forum. I've been tempted many times to just make something up and see where it goes. But, in the end, they are just rumors. Unfounded speculation based on abstract thinking. In other words, I sprayed my room with anti-elephant spray, and I know for a fact it works because there are no elephants in my room. Logically that sounds reasonable, but we all know its pure BS. Why? Because a lot of credible facts have been removed from the equation. Like, we don't live in an area that has elephants running around. In the case with the Kings, we also don't have all the facts. We are mostly hearing media speculation, and what the Kings want us to hear. We can pass judgement on their PR decisions, which at the moment seem ill conceived at best. And rightly so! Were emotionally invested. It's hard to put a price tag on the stress involved, especially on those that live their lives vicariously through the Kings.

But to answer your question, no, I haven't had any experience as a GM. I, like everyone else, would like to think that I'm smart enough to be a GM. That I would make better decisions than the current GM. I once knew someone within the organization whose information made me appear smarter than Iám, but he's long gone. But I get your point, and its a good one. But at the same time, there are people on this forum, that from a player personnel perspective, I think would make good GM's. Not wanting to unfairly put the spotlight on those individuals, they shall remain nameless. And no, I don't include myself on that list. I have no desire to subject myself to that kind of scrutiny. Much easier to criticize! :rolleyes:
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#214
#214
funkykingston said:
Here's my new thought: Malone and D'Alessandro had a non-existent relationship and basic philosophical differences so the GM was looking for reasons to convince Vivek to fire the coach with no replacement in mind and just the notion that Malone was doing harm by taking the team in the wrong direction.

From what I've read lately, I think that's likely the case.
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I think its more of this than anything else. Not sure PDA didn't have a coach in mind, but it obvious that Malone and PDA just had different ideas about how the team should play. I really don't have a problem with the two of them being at logger heads. It happens all the time. Vivek has the right to hire and fire anyone he wants. For me, its the timing of the whole thing. None of it makes any sense. Cousins is your best player, who you said is going to be consulted on major decisions, and he finds out about it on twitter, just like me. It's a PR disaster for the Kings. I have never understood self inflicted wounds. Especially by supposed smart people. Unless they have a card up their sleeve, or some hidden method to their madness, I'm totally befuddled by this.

Here's a suggestion for the Kings that might help. Christmas morning announce that George Karl is now the new head coach of the Kings. Say this was the intended result all along, but you wanted to give the fans a surprise Christmas present. That won't answer all the questions, but it will take some of the sour taste out my mouth.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#219
#219
How much is Karl wanting? $20 mil a tear? I honestly don't understand them suddenly getting frugal when Karl could be the key to the playoffs and maybe more.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#221
#221
Unfortunately folks, NBA 3.0 also involves turning a profit.

I'm not sure why they can't see that Karl would be a pretty good investment.

Maybe they're just waiting for things to get more desperate so signing Karl will seem REALLY awesome?
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#222
#222
Chubbs said:
Unfortunately folks, NBA 3.0 also involves turning a profit.

I'm not sure why they can't see that Karl would be a pretty good investment.

Maybe they're just waiting for things to get more desperate so signing Karl will seem REALLY awesome?
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Coaching has become such an underrated aspect in the league lately. A lot of teams stooging on paying a coach good money. It reminds me of Maloofs in a lot of ways.

Fact is that coach is just as important as the roster you put together. If you look around the league, all the good coaches are getting $5 million + per season and there are reasons why some teams are willing to pay that much money for a good coach.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#223
#223
if Karl is wanting 5 million or slightly more for a veteran coach, why not fork it over? Are they not serious about winning or do they really want to see if they can keep Corbin on the cheap...but I don't think this management is about being cheap so something has got to give. What did they pay Malone? wasn't it a five year deal....
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#224
#224
Chubbs said:
Unfortunately folks, NBA 3.0 also involves turning a profit.

I'm not sure why they can't see that Karl would be a pretty good investment.

Maybe they're just waiting for things to get more desperate so signing Karl will seem REALLY awesome?
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There certainly is enough data derived from every team in the league that the teams that win have the highest attendance. I cannot believe we know the whole story concerning negotiations with Karl and if that is so, I say Bravo! We don't have the right to know every bit of negotiation and sometimes letting out information may jeopardize negotiations.

I refuse to believe we are not negotiating with Karl. Nothing makes any more sense. If I am wrong, the entire Sacramento County will hear a painful wail coming from Citrus Heights.
 
John Galt

John Galt

Starter
#225
#225
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 14m14 minutes ago
Am told that Kings security had patrons with George Karl signs take them down. Told this by multiple fans, to @sam_amick's previous tweet.


If this is true, just wow. I thought Vivek had a PR staff. He needs a better one. I hope there is some context like "many signs blocking the view of fans were involved" or something - and not just based on the sign content.

Did anybody here see a beef over sign content at Arco tonight?
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#227
#227
HereWeVivek said:
This is embarrassing. one guy even said he was told he would be "ejected" from the arena if he didn't get rid of his #WeWantKarl sign

Ron Klint @blaylockboyz · 2h
So it's cool for my family to pay for me to go to NYC and Dallas to support team but not express opinion on coach? #EpicFail

Aaron DelBono @Sac_KingAaron · 48m48 minutes ago
“@CrownDowntown: #WeWantKarl ”
Were they told they would be ejected if they held up their sign, too?
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I guess they are making it quite clear whose team this is. **** em!
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#232
#232
Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#234
#234
John Galt said:
Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave 14m14 minutes ago
Am told that Kings security had patrons with George Karl signs take them down. Told this by multiple fans, to @sam_amick's previous tweet.


If this is true, just wow. I thought Vivek had a PR staff. He needs a better one. I hope there is some context like "many signs blocking the view of fans were involved" or something - and not just based on the sign content.

Did anybody here see a beef over sign content at Arco tonight?
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f that. I'd make them throw me out before I took my sign down...unless the signs were obstructing other people's views, then this is total crap
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#236
#236
Hoovtrain said:
Lol. That seems like a cop out to me
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The whole Michael Malone sacking is a cop out by those who did not think that they would get burnt by their own fans as much as they are!

They really have no room to move on this. They absolutely must get a darn good coach (read George Karl) or their master plan might just unravel for them. Honeymoon period for these guys is over and they did not think it would come around this quickly. People read through the bullcrap pretty quickly and these guys have realized that they have just run out of bullcrap because the fans are not buying what they are selling at the moment.
 
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