George Karl, Mark Jackson or ??? (merged)

Can you blame him if he really thinks that way? After all, it would not be the fans who will get judged at the end of every season.

Also, I don't know anybody among us FANS having any meaningful experience in any NBA front office. Maybe a lot of us want to be in or pretend to know more, but has anyone in this board really done any NBA front office job?

Have you?
By that rationale no one can criticize a professional athlete unless they played pro sports. And no one could criticize any pop stars album if they haven't recorded a major label release themselves.

There are obviously a ton of behind the scenes difficulties and complexities involved but at the end of the day there are good moves and bad moves.

It doesn't take experience in an NBA office to know which is which.
 
Firing Malone then talks about Collison, jt, and dwill for deron Williams. And talks of del negro, Jackson and no talks of Karl. God what a joke. Bunch of morons I swear.

Vivek thinks he's so smart. This isn't a technology business though. This is basketball. And the key to winning been established for years now. There isn't some secret formula.

These losers are so obsessed with being innovative that they forget the big picture. Winning. Four eyes should've been on the hot seat if anyone, not Malone. They treat this organization like a video game, not taking into account team chemistry and players emotions.

Ughh. Make is stop. I haven't felt this terrible about the kings since the maloofs years. This makes the Jason Hart era sound heavenly.

The thought of dcuz and gay getting angry about all this mess and possibly demanding trades just makes things worse.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Okay, here's my new thought: When they fired Malone, they fully intended to hire Karl. They were not sure, however, of the fans' reaction so they adamantly deny having any plans for George Karl and move Ty Corbin to the INTERIM (their words) coaching position while they test the waters on Karl.

The fans, being fans, rant and rave about losing Malone until they start to focus on who could replace him. George Karl's name comes up and slowly but surely a groundswell of support builds for the former coach of the Denver Nuggets. After a few days, when social media has totally exploded and even our feisty Sacramento media is on board with the idea of bringing George Karl to town, Vivek and PDA come out and say they've heard us and they realize George Karl (remember, their secret guy all along) is the best possible choice for our new head coach and that he's going to be coming on board immediately because now that he's made it clear he wants to get back into the NBA we don't want to let him get away.

Hugs and tears of joy abound in the Kingsdom.

/fade out
 
By that rationale no one can criticize a professional athlete unless they played pro sports. And no one could criticize any pop stars album if they haven't recorded a major label release themselves.

There are obviously a ton of behind the scenes difficulties and complexities involved but at the end of the day there are good moves and bad moves.

It doesn't take experience in an NBA office to know which is which.
I can understand the criticisms, but not to the extent of seemingly predicting doom as a certainty and just because we want coach Malone to continue coaching even when we are losing a lot of winnable games.

How sure are we that firing our favorite inexperienced coach will lead to the demise of this team?

Do you honestly believe that we care more for this team and much more than Vivek and PDA and that they don't think hard enough like we do before pulling a crucial decision as big as firing and humiliating a coach?

Are we as fans (who only relies in speculative journalism) really that much smarter than these guys who actually run an NBA office?
 
Vivek thinks he's so smart. This isn't a technology business though. This is basketball. And the key to winning been established for years now. There isn't some secret formula.

These losers are so obsessed with being innovative that they forget the big picture. Winning. Four eyes should've been on the hot seat if anyone, not Malone. They treat this organization like a video game, not taking into account team chemistry and players emotions.
Your post seems like it is so simple to win in the NBA and you seem like more knowledgeable about basketball than anyone in the Kings management.

Since being innovative is not the way to go, may I ask what that seemingly widely known ""established formula" for winning is?
 
There is no established formula to winning besides playing to the strength of your roster. Honestly i understand the Motivation oft our FO. The more you watch other NBA Teams the more it becomes obvious, that every Team plays at a faster pace and no Team relied on postups to the extent the Kings did under Malone.
Even the often mentioned Grizzlies run a ton of pick&rolls with Gasol and Conley, set screens to get Lee open shots and don't use their old fashioned pound it inside playstyle as much as in the recent years. Randolph is basically their 3rd option, they added shooting to the roster and Gasol trimmed his weight down for a reason.
After all they altered their playstyle, cause it was so predictable. Now they are faster, Conley has a much bigger role, they move the ball much better and they are overall a much more dangerous team, cause their defense is still stellar.

So I understand what PDA most likely wants to achieve. I just don't agree with the steps he has taken, to actually get it done. It took the Grizzlies years and a couple of roster moves to alter their playstyle. We are trying to get it done within one season, while the real focus this year should have been to establish asolid defense. Kings FO is way to impatient and tries to skip steps in the development of the Team.
That looks really risky to me, cause the players and Fans could turn away from the FO, due to frustration.
 
I can understand the criticisms, but not to the extent of seemingly predicting doom as a certainty and just because we want coach Malone to continue coaching even when we are losing a lot of winnable games.

How sure are we that firing our favorite inexperienced coach will lead to the demise of this team?

Do you honestly believe that we care more for this team and much more than Vivek and PDA and that they don't think hard enough like we do before pulling a crucial decision as big as firing and humiliating a coach?

Are we as fans (who only relies in speculative journalism) really that much smarter than these guys who actually run an NBA office?
I do believe fans here care a LOT more than PDA and crew and have a much more careful eye toward the long term stability of the franchise. At best, PDA is here 3-5 years. If he causes Boogie to ask out, what does he care? If this fails, fine. He moves on to the next one. That's the life of a GM. Get in, make noise, get out. If you're just realizing that, welcome to the party. I've been around all 30 plus years. They've been here a little over 1. To PDA, it's a job. To us, it's much more than that.

So yeah, there's a HUGE difference in how much we care. We will outlast the GM, coach, players, and everyone else involved in the team right now. Probably the owner too. People on here have been thinking about this team for years longer than the FO, who arrived last June. WAY WAY longer. And some, which I do not count myself among, are much much smarter and knowledgeable and experienced about THIS team and basketball than Vivek and crew.

Here's the other thing. You find few people talking about Malone as their favorite coach. It's HOW and WHEN this was done that's at issue here. It's the lack of stability that just a month ago they claimed to be on board with, and now we're back in trade rumors, just fired the coach, etc. Mass hysteria! The real concern isn't that this team will never win another game. It's the damage to the reputation that's really hard to get back. The national narrative of this new ownership group as being just as bad, if not worse, as the last one just got confirmed to the basketball establishment.
 
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I can understand the criticisms, but not to the extent of seemingly predicting doom as a certainty and just because we want coach Malone to continue coaching even when we are losing a lot of winnable games.

How sure are we that firing our favorite inexperienced coach will lead to the demise of this team?

Do you honestly believe that we care more for this team and much more than Vivek and PDA and that they don't think hard enough like we do before pulling a crucial decision as big as firing and humiliating a coach?

Are we as fans (who only relies in speculative journalism) really that much smarter than these guys who actually run an NBA office?
For the forseable future this team will go as far as Cousins will take it. Boogie came out and said "This is my guy!" about Malone. It meant he was happy playing for him and about his situation overall, felt that Malone had his back and was putting him in the best position possible to succeed. Now you dump Malone in a fashion, that throws away this season and erodes Boogie's trust towards FO. Ok, see you next season...Then you look at the calendar and realize, that Boogie will put himself on the market (most likely would've regardless of a current mess) in 2017, so next season becomes last stand to finally get him success and make him comfortable again or...
 
Ok, see you next season...Then you look at the calendar and realize, that Boogie will put himself on the market (most likely would've regardless of a current mess) in 2017, so next season becomes last stand to finally get him success and make him comfortable again or...
Trying to play a bit of devils advocate, but the same could be said, if you believe that the style of Malone wouldn't turn the team into a contender, cause the offense was too stagnant and relied too much on ISO plays of DMC and Gay. There was obviously very little time to decide whether Malone is the next coming of Popovich. The FO may feel a pressing need to develop the team as fast as possible, cause they are aware, that DMC might walk away soon, if the Kings are not a contender at the time he hits the FA market. And they got a point, that every contender in the west moves the ball much better, than the Kings and plays a more fluid offense.
Not stating that this was overall the right decision and certainly I'm pissed off with the way they handled it, but there might be good reasons for this move, if you look at it from a more analytical approach, which I assume PDA is all about.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
We will outlast the GM, coach, players, and everyone else involved in the team right now. Probably the owner too. People on here have been thinking about this team for years longer than the FO, who arrived last June. WAY WAY longer. And some, which I do not count myself among, are much much smarter and knowledgeable and experienced about THIS team and basketball than Vivek and crew.

Here's the other thing. You find few people talking about Malone as their favorite coach. It's HOW and WHEN this was done that's at issue here. It's the lack of stability that just a month ago they claimed to be on board with, and now we're back in trade rumors, just fired the coach, etc. Mass hysteria! The real concern isn't that this team will never win another game. It's the damage to the reputation that's really hard to get back. The national narrative of this new ownership group as being just as bad, if not worse, as the last one just got confirmed to the basketball establishment.
I don't agree with all of your post, but I do agree with this (especially the bolded part). Well stated.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Trying to play a bit of devils advocate, but the same could be said, if you believe that the style of Malone wouldn't turn the team into a contender, cause the offense was too stagnant and relied too much on ISO plays of DMC and Gay. There was obviously very little time to decide whether Malone is the next coming of Popovich. The FO may feel a pressing need to develop the team as fast as possible, cause they are aware, that DMC might walk away soon, if the Kings are not a contender at the time he hits the FA market. And they got a point, that every contender in the west moves the ball much better, than the Kings and plays a more fluid offense.
Not stating that this was overall the right decision and certainly I'm pissed off with the way they handled it, but there might be good reasons for this move, if you look at it from a more analytical approach, which I assume PDA is all about.
You play to your strengths. Our starting 5 under Malone was outscoring the other teams. I think all of them had a + for their +/-. And the bench was ALL in the -. Our personnel are better suited overall for "thump and bump" than playing like the Reno Bighorns.

The problem is talent level, and when Boogie goes down for an extended period, we just can't compete. You can run all the fluid offense you want but without better overall personnel our margin of victory for most games is slim with Boogie and in the negative without him.
 
Okay, here's my new thought: When they fired Malone, they fully intended to hire Karl. They were not sure, however, of the fans' reaction so they adamantly deny having any plans for George Karl and move Ty Corbin to the INTERIM (their words) coaching position while they test the waters on Karl.

The fans, being fans, rant and rave about losing Malone until they start to focus on who could replace him. George Karl's name comes up and slowly but surely a groundswell of support builds for the former coach of the Denver Nuggets. After a few days, when social media has totally exploded and even our feisty Sacramento media is on board with the idea of bringing George Karl to town, Vivek and PDA come out and say they've heard us and they realize George Karl (remember, their secret guy all along) is the best possible choice for our new head coach and that he's going to be coming on board immediately because now that he's made it clear he wants to get back into the NBA we don't want to let him get away.

Hugs and tears of joy abound in the Kingsdom.

/fade out
Here's my new thought: Malone and D'Alessandro had a non-existent relationship and basic philosophical differences so the GM was looking for reasons to convince Vivek to fire the coach with no replacement in mind and just the notion that Malone was doing harm by taking the team in the wrong direction.

From what I've read lately, I think that's likely the case.
 
You play to your strengths. Our starting 5 under Malone was outscoring the other teams. I think all of them had a + for their +/-. And the bench was ALL in the -. Our personnel are better suited overall for "thump and bump" than playing like the Reno Bighorns.

The problem is talent level, and when Boogie goes down for an extended period, we just can't compete. You can run all the fluid offense you want but without better overall personnel our margin of victory for most games is slim with Boogie and in the negative without him.
I agree, but it's up to the FO to decide whether the style of play leads to the chance to contend for the ultimate goal or not. There are plenty of posters here, that voice the opinion, that an outside-in playstyle with lots of jumpshooting or a run and gun type aproach won't lead to success in the playoffs. Obviously the FO thought, that the same could apply for Malones stagnant postup offense. And when you look closely the other playoff bound teams in the west all play faster and more fluid. So the believe that ball movement, player movement, fast pace and screening are key to success seems to be common sense.
Btw. i thought PDA never said we should play run and gun or this 4 on 5 crap or the Reno System. Thats an assumption of some fans, that are emotional and don't agree with the firing of malone. Most likely PDA will have the vision of a faster paced playstyle, with more ball movement, more screening and the opportunity to run if possible. Given our roster it will most likely look more like Memphis than the Warriors.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I agree, but it's up to the FO to decide whether the style of play leads to the chance to contend for the ultimate goal or not. There are plenty of posters here, that voice the opinion, that an outside-in playstyle with lots of jumpshooting or a run and gun type aproach won't lead to success in the playoffs. Obviously the FO thought, that the same could apply for Malones stagnant postup offense. And when you look closely the other playoff bound teams in the west all play faster and more fluid. So the believe that ball movement, player movement, fast pace and screening are key to success seems to be common sense.
Btw. i thought PDA never said we should play run and gun or this 4 on 5 crap or the Reno System. Thats an assumption of some fans, that are emotional and don't agree with the firing of malone. Most likely PDA will have the vision of a faster paced playstyle, with more ball movement, more screening and the opportunity to run if possible. Given our roster it will most likely look more like Memphis than the Warriors.
We will look nothing like either team as we don't come close to having the defensive players that Memphis has nor do we have the shooters that GS have.
 
Great piece written by Ailene Voisin on the no-brainer hire of George Karl:

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ailene-voisin/article4748475.html
Two reasons it's not quite a "no-brainer" hire:

(1) The Kings are on the hook for Malone's salary so you'd be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 million total in coaches salaries
(2) If the Kings want a guy that will take direction from ownership and the FO on how to coach, Karl isn't the guy. I'm not saying Ranadive and D'Alessandro necessarily want to dictate what the coach does but if they do, Karl is a no go.

Apparently Byron Scott has an idea of who should coach the Kings. When asked about the idea of the Kings playing 4 on 5 defense:
Byron Scott said:
"I hope they use that sometime," he said. "I've seen a lot. That I have not seen in 30 years" of NBA experience.

It's definitely a bizarre concept.

"I also heard that [Ranadive] wants them to run more and stop isolation [plays]," Scott said. "My only opinion is he should come down and coach them. Might as well."
Full article
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20141221-story.html
 
Two reasons it's not quite a "no-brainer" hire:

(1) The Kings are on the hook for Malone's salary so you'd be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 million total in coaches salaries
(2) If the Kings want a guy that will take direction from ownership and the FO on how to coach, Karl isn't the guy. I'm not saying Ranadive and D'Alessandro necessarily want to dictate what the coach does but if they do, Karl is a no go.

Apparently Byron Scott has an idea of who should coach the Kings. When asked about the idea of the Kings playing 4 on 5 defense:


Full article
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20141221-story.html
Yep, national reputation, which was on a minor trend up, has been destroyed.

I feel like Scott at this point, Vivek, you might as well coach now and get it out of your system.
 
Okay, here's my new thought: When they fired Malone, they fully intended to hire Karl. They were not sure, however, of the fans' reaction so they adamantly deny having any plans for George Karl and move Ty Corbin to the INTERIM (their words) coaching position while they test the waters on Karl.

The fans, being fans, rant and rave about losing Malone until they start to focus on who could replace him. George Karl's name comes up and slowly but surely a groundswell of support builds for the former coach of the Denver Nuggets. After a few days, when social media has totally exploded and even our feisty Sacramento media is on board with the idea of bringing George Karl to town, Vivek and PDA come out and say they've heard us and they realize George Karl (remember, their secret guy all along) is the best possible choice for our new head coach and that he's going to be coming on board immediately because now that he's made it clear he wants to get back into the NBA we don't want to let him get away.

Hugs and tears of joy abound in the Kingsdom.

/fade out
I'm not going to jump for joy if we do manage to sign George Karl. He's a good coach but he's never been on my wishlist. What's happened here is that PDA has managed to maneuver the team into a position where they now look like fools if they don't sign George Karl. He's the only coach available who would be perceived as an upgrade (whether he actually is or not) and everything we know about the front office's basketball philosophy (fast-paced running offense, up-tempo exciting play with room for players to freelance, move into playoff contention immediately which requires 48+ wins at minimum, experienced and brilliant "jazz director" orchestrator of offense on the sideline) points directly to George Karl.

The thing is, even if Karl starts today and immediately gets results, we're not going to make the playoffs. Look who's ahead of us -- Golden State, Memphis, Portland, Houston, Dallas, LA Clippers, San Antonio. You may as well count OKC too who won 59 games last year and are charging back into a playoff spot right now. Maybe if everyone stays healthy and we don't change coaches in the middle of the season we could have played well enough to keep pace with some of these teams but that chance is blown now. Even if we go 40-16 the rest of the way, I could see us getting edged out by the 8 teams mentioned above. The slow build philosophy is gone now. The official line is playoffs or bust. Which puts us exactly where nobody wants to be -- the last team to miss the playoffs. No draft pick, no playoffs, little hope of luring a free agent.

I admire your intrepid optimism VF, but this is about a lot more than a coaching change for me. It seems to me that our front office has taken one of the exciting up-and-coming teams in the league and is well on their way to turning them into a perennial first-round punching bag. And that's if we do sign George Karl. I'm not exaggerating, that's honestly how I feel. We'll see what happens next. Right now, looking forward, the only thing I can see that'll get me jumping for joy about this team is if we fumble this season into the endzone and luck our way into a top 3 pick regardless. At least at that point you've got enough talent on the roster that the choice of coach is less important.

"I also heard that [Ranadive] wants them to run more and stop isolation [plays]," Scott said. "My only opinion is he should come down and coach them. Might as well."
Actually I take that back, I would also love to see Vivek coaching the team. It's win-win. Either he's a brilliant basketball genius after all and we laugh all the way to the NBA Finals or he realizes pretty quickly that his ideas don't work and won't ever bring them up again.
 
We will look nothing like either team as we don't come close to having the defensive players that Memphis has nor do we have the shooters that GS have.
The post was not about how we look like other teams. It was about the reasoning of our FO and the motivation behind it. But nevermind.
 
Wait, what? Bill Simmons is a tool for calling the NFL and Rodger Goodell out on their horrible handling of all these domestic violence cases?
I thought Bill Simmons was exactly on point with his comments about the NFL and Roger Goodell. However, he spends all of his time ripping on small market teams, like the Kings, every chance he gets. Bill Simmons is absolutely a tool.
 
The NBA prohibits coach/owner IIRC
my suggestion is vivek hire a coach, have him wear an ear piece where vivek can tell him what plays to run etc. i'm sure there is technology out there that will allow him to do this. i can see him and mully in a backroom hi fiving each other during the game.
 
Can you blame him if he really thinks that way? After all, it would not be the fans who will get judged at the end of every season.

Also, I don't know anybody among us FANS having any meaningful experience in any NBA front office. Maybe a lot of us want to be in or pretend to know more, but has anyone in this board really done any NBA front office job?

Have you?
Aw, come on...isn't that what most team message board fans do? Acting like we know more than the people being paid actual American dollars to do the job?

"Get rid of the owner, because we are unhappy with his recent decision, and we don't care that he bought the team and kept them here! We hate him now!"

"Fire the GM, because we're smarter than he is, and we should be making all of these decisions!" :rolleyes:
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Two reasons it's not quite a "no-brainer" hire:

(1) The Kings are on the hook for Malone's salary so you'd be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 million total in coaches salaries
(2) If the Kings want a guy that will take direction from ownership and the FO on how to coach, Karl isn't the guy. I'm not saying Ranadive and D'Alessandro necessarily want to dictate what the coach does but if they do, Karl is a no go.

Apparently Byron Scott has an idea of who should coach the Kings. When asked about the idea of the Kings playing 4 on 5 defense:


Full article
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20141221-story.html
No matter how you cut it, those are damning comments by an NBA coach about Kings ownership.