Geoff Petrie knows what he’s doing…
- Thread starter sactown100
- Start date
What it means is that you can't have it both ways; you can't say that the Blazers are failures because they only continued to make the playoffs three years after the last time they were contenders, and then turn around and say that the Kings are doing just fine because they've continued to make the playoffs three years after the last time they were contenders.
You said:
And I'm saying that you've got to pick one or the other: either the Blazers GM, and the Nets GM, and the Sonics GM, and the Jazz' GM all accomplished just as much as Petrie has, making what Petrie's doing nothing special, or Petrie has been just as big a failure as the other guys were.
First of all, the line about the Kings being just fine was dripping with sarcasm, as was the line about the Lakers that followed it.
Secondly, I'm not making a case for Petrie one way or another. I am simply pointing out the natural progression of a contending team.
Finally, I don't HAVE to be on one side of the fence or the other regarding Petrie. My intent was to show that the Kings have done what pretty much every team does after assembling a great team, they've declined and been forced to rebuild.
Not that it matters, but my opinion is that Petrie is an above average GM who succeeds more than he fails, and for better or worse he doesn't take many risks.
Secondly, I'm not making a case for Petrie one way or another. I am simply pointing out the natural progression of a contending team.
Finally, I don't HAVE to be on one side of the fence or the other regarding Petrie. My intent was to show that the Kings have done what pretty much every team does after assembling a great team, they've declined and been forced to rebuild.
Not that it matters, but my opinion is that Petrie is an above average GM who succeeds more than he fails, and for better or worse he doesn't take many risks.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If you're talking about turnaround time with a new crew, you're right, that was about the quickest I've seen (albeit made easier since the first team really wasn't that good, just in a weak conference). Of course the turnaround was keyed around a couple of very aggressive trades -- they did not let all that talent walk. Davis brought them Jermaine, and then the Rose for Ron/Brad masterpiece.
Sptsjunkie
Starter
Well, you are part right.
If this slow drop continues and the Kings spend the next half decade in the lottery, then you are correct, Petrie's rebuilding is no more special than what the GM's you mentioned accomplished.
However, Petrie has acquired a potential franchise player in Artest, reshaped the team's image/style of play, and has acquired a number of young players to complement veterans still in their prime.
In other words, this team has a chance to avoid the 5-10 yer lottery mess that most teams have/are experiencing before becoming contenders again. If Petrie does that, he will have accomplished something that very very few GMs have ever accomplished. Especially considering he's not in a major market (i.e. Lakers and Shaq) and that there were no fluke draftpicks (i.e. Spurs and Duncan).
So it's too early to say Petrie's playoff run is much more special than the other GMs, but no we don't have to call him as big of a failure yet, since we haven't experienced their prolonged losing either.
They have a chance to... but they probably won't.
I'd ask if yu could be positive for once, but then I'm sure I'd just be playing the "straight" man for the obvious reply.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I'm almost sorry that I came back to this board after all these years. Let me regress. I lived through the Tissy years. The drafting of Joe Klein instead of Karl Malone. The drafting of Kenny Smith instead of Kevin Johnson. The trading of 2/5's of our starting line-up and a first round draft pick for Derick Smith who had a bad knee. The trade for Ralph Sampson that set the franchise back 3 or 4 years. Do I have to go on. Nothing, and I mean nothing happened that was good for this franchise, until Petrie came along.
Maybe I can make an exception for L. Simmons, but thats it. Even the brief career of Ricky Barry came for Petrie. I don't know what some of you have been smoking. Maybe some of you really don't know basketball. Bricky,you said that Petrie destroyed your team. You know what. He built your team too. The Lord giveth and the Lord takeif away.
I'am not equating Petrie to God, I'm just saying, give him credit for building the team you so sorely miss. By the way, as were giving credit to Portland for maintaining for all those years. I believe that someone named Petrie was up there at the time.
Its still early. No games have been played. Lets see what else happens in the off season and how the team plays once the season begins.
Its easy to point out the mistakes a person makes. How would everyone of us like to have the public looking over our shoulder all the time. No excuses. Its his job. I just mean that I'm sure I could find a few flaws in the job some of you do, if I looked closely enough. Not a fair comparison I know, but think about it.
As I depart I must ask. What did Washington get for Webber. Someone named Richmond I think. Where the hell did Doug Christy come from anyway. How the hell did we ever get Valde and some guy named Jason Williams. And what happened to him. Did we get someone for him. All just luck I suspose.
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Kingzrool
Starter
Nice. Best thread in a while! You guys are making great points against Bricks arguments (who always has a good argument to back his opinion). Of course, I am on the "Give Geoff a chance" bandwagon. He is the GM for a reason, obviously the M's have no loyalty. I think Sptsjunkie sums it up best:
Wait and see, we really have no choice anyways.
Wait and see, we really have no choice anyways.
nbrans
All-Star
You should post more often.
sactown100
G-League
word bajaden ! yeah...thats what im talk'n about
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Ah...where to begin.
a) I was around for all those amusing years too
b) its fortuitous you did not equate Geoff to God as I don't believe in him/her/it either. You will find me genuflecting to very few entities, let alone basketball GMs.
c) Petrie was not the guy who maintained the Blazers through all those years -- he got canned actually immediately after their first run in the early 90's, ironically accused of not doing anything to stem their decline (also was not the guy who built the Blazers dynasty of that era either -- took over with msot of the major pieces already in play).
d) as you claim to be new, I will ignore the restatement of the obvious there at the end -- quite obviously Geoff put together the old team. Now answer me this, how long ago was the most recent move you list there. 5 years ago? How is that relevant to today? Yes, once upon a time Geoff built a very good team -- notably by being uncharacteristically aggressive during one great summer in '98. Very nice. And the source of the deification of course. But an entierly different question than whether he can do it again, or is doing it again. The last time he was in the dying days of empire/rebuild phase as a GM he got fired. And the franchise went on actually. Good GM, hardly infallible. Hardly omniscient. May or may not be the man for this job.
Entity
Hall of Famer
its obvious that GP and the other powers that be are ready to see kevin start at the 2 and they know bonzi would not go for that so they offered him a ho hum deal just in case he would and we could have used him yes. but i am seeing very clearly that This franchise is ready for Kevin to start. With Ron and Kevin starting we were 15-7 with ron and bonzi starting we were 11-6 and Bonzi had the luxury of having a backup as good as Kevin. Kevin didn't have a backup as good as himself while Bonzi was hurt. Besides Ron put up better numbers with Kevin starting than he did with Bonzi starting.
ShatteredVision
Bench
Geoff Petrie the equivalent of Billy Beane?
Only, not as cheap...
Only, not as cheap...
thatguy
Bench
You know, as much as I want ignore your first statement in (d) as it essentially cancels out your premise in (c), I cannot. Petrie never had a chance to "rebuild" or "restructure" or "Bricklayer-ise" as it were. I will say Portland has done remarkably well since Petrie left, I'll give you that. I'd certainly rather have Whitsett over Petrie.
If Bonzi Wells was willing to resign at $40 mil for 5 years (as you have suggested before on this board) my best guess is that could have been done. In all likelihood he did not. Neither you or myself can verify or deny that...so it'd be nice if you stopped acting like you have a clue. Because you don't, just like the rest of us.
You (and others) can complain that Petrie signed Salmons for more than he was worth. You may be correct (but are not in actuality), but the market bears that Salmons was worth at least $23 mil over 5 years. In NBA terms, 400k a year is peanuts. Doesn't make it right, or make it the correct move but it does say that the free agent that was signed was not substantially overvalued.
The fact that you choose not to pray at an altar of Petrie doesn't make you special, doesn't make you different and most certainly doesn't make you right. You are a fan just like anyone else on this board. That is it...(Insert diety here) help us, if you were in charge the Kings would have featured in their starting lineup a retired Vlade Divac, a retiree wannabe comback Doug Christie, a shell of Chris Webber to complement Ron Artest and Mike Bibby. You are first in line for the job in my book...
I don't like being the bearer of bad news, but nbrans was correct: your myopia is overwhelming. Worse yet, your opinions are irrelevant and your "insight" is worthless.
sactown100
G-League
word im over Bricklayer and his hate on everything just come out of the closet and admit you love Mitch Kupchak and you are really a Laker fan ! ! !
What does this remind you of ???
1. blah
2. blah blah
3. blah blah blah
or maybe its
a) blah
b)blah blah
c)blah blah blah
What does this remind you of ???
1. blah
2. blah blah
3. blah blah blah
or maybe its
a) blah
b)blah blah
c)blah blah blah
Greg Ostertag
G-League
Not sure if this has been brought up (and I'm sure it has..I just don't feel like sifting through all the pages about Salmons) .. but if Bryan Colangelo and Mike D'Antoni both go after this guy (both of whom IMO are very good basketball minds), there has to be some quality they see in this kid that intrigues them. Petrie is another I would categorize in that group. You figure Petrie has something in mind to follow this. I think it's always better to have an excess of talent than a shortage of it.
And maybe Salmons isn't as strong or tough as Bonzi (not many guards are), but I think we should all wait an see what he does on the court with the Kings before we label him.
And maybe Salmons isn't as strong or tough as Bonzi (not many guards are), but I think we should all wait an see what he does on the court with the Kings before we label him.
Mad D
Starter
WTH, Brick wasn't saying if we had those old guys we would be a better team. He has been saying for the past week:
The Kings traded Christe for nothing, a free agent that left at the end of the season.
Bobby Jackson for nothing, a free agent that left at the end of the season.
Chris Webber for contracts that the team still can't get rid of.
Bricklayer is the not corny, sentimental, oh they traded my favorite player type.
The Kings traded Christe for nothing, a free agent that left at the end of the season.
Bobby Jackson for nothing, a free agent that left at the end of the season.
Chris Webber for contracts that the team still can't get rid of.
Bricklayer is the not corny, sentimental, oh they traded my favorite player type.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
thatguy
Bench
Is this in reference to my post? I don't think I mentioned either a fruit nor a family member...
Again, a myopic argument. If Christie wasn't traded for Mobley, how things came about, there would have been no trade for Bonzi. (Side note: I'd think Mobley for half a season or so would be better than Christie for a few games. Just me? And, I'd rather have Mobley/Bonzi over Jackson/Christie anyway. Not only that, I'd rather have a bowl of tomato soup over Mobley or Jackson. But I'm not a GM nor do I claim to be [something to be learned here?])
Mad D
Starter
It's a "myopic argument" again because all I was doing was restating what brick has been postingand adding that Brick isn't upset over trading "old favorites" but the fact that the team didn't get anything more permanent and useful in return. Those trades led to bandages instead of stitches.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, while I feel fairly certain you have been around before, because basically nobody pops on as a complete *** thast quickly, let's just pretend you really have 7 total posts on the board. Now with that as the basic premise, let's make the next logical conclusion -- you are fundamentally unqualified to opine on, not to mention severely confused about what I, if in charge of the Kings, would have done with anybody.
Being acused by a newbie who is likely just a trolling front for an older poster, of having myopia is of roughly as much concern to me as whether to pop a zit on my *** tonight, or wait until tommorow. You have no clue what you are talking about.
You want to opine on me or my opinions, either a) hang around long enough to actually understand what you are talking about; or b) take back up your alter ego with enough posts that your opinion matters. Either way, don't be popping up on this board in all your newbie glory and making a fool of yourself opining on things about which you could not possibly have a clue.
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KingKong
Starter
Don't you think that has a lot to do with the Maloofs tightening their purse strings?
GoGoGadget
All-Star
If you're willing to give Petrie credit for bringing Mobley and Bonzi here in the first place, you've also got to look objectively at the fact that he's somewhat in charge of doing what it takes to keep them here.
Letting a productive player walk with getting nothing in return is not good. And it's the GM's **** up. Regardless the names involved.
thatguy
Bench
Doug Christie for Cuttino Mobley was a bad move? Bobby Jackson for Bonzi Wells was a bad move? Christie was waived (thanks to a favorable exception in the CBA) after less than half a season by Orlando and Bobby Jackson signed for more money per year than (you guessed it!!!) John Salmons. What is the problem here?
Greg Ostertag
G-League
Trading players and letting them walk/them signing elsewhere at the end of their contract is a natural part of the NBA. That's what the draft and free agency is for.
Sure we traded the ever-so-quickly declining Doug Christie for the quick-triggered Mobley. Then we let him walk. Well even if we kept Christie, he would have been gone by this year due to injury or retirement in all likelihood. It also would've meant we wouldn't have made the move to fill the SG position to get Bonzi (even if it was only for a season).
Sure we traded the ball-demanding Webber for 3 players that didn't equal his value. Well, if we still had Webber, Kings fans would be on his case more than ever before (and boy were they on his case during his final season). CWebb is now untradable (as in no team wants him) ..well at least until his contract year where he becomes a big expiring. Thomas is still good for a double-double. If only he didn't have that me-first attitude.
And finally yes, we traded the beloved Bobby Jackson and myself (to the Jazz ) and in the end Bonzi bolted. Bobby was getting injured and playing about half a season and was coming up on a payday we weren't going to give him (basically Bobby would've been gone after this year too). And in the end we are "stuck" with Kevin Martin as the starting SG (which a lot of fans were debating during last season ..whether KMart should start). And IMO it is Kevin's time to shine. We have a young guard-oriented bench with Garcia and now Salmons to back the swingman positions and Douby and Price potentially to back up Bibby.
Let's face it, players get old and teams can't stay as they were. Change in inevitable. And I'm sure we all wish that original team that brought back the life in Sacramento basketball were still here in their primes, but it just doesn't work that way.
Sure we traded the ever-so-quickly declining Doug Christie for the quick-triggered Mobley. Then we let him walk. Well even if we kept Christie, he would have been gone by this year due to injury or retirement in all likelihood. It also would've meant we wouldn't have made the move to fill the SG position to get Bonzi (even if it was only for a season).
Sure we traded the ball-demanding Webber for 3 players that didn't equal his value. Well, if we still had Webber, Kings fans would be on his case more than ever before (and boy were they on his case during his final season). CWebb is now untradable (as in no team wants him) ..well at least until his contract year where he becomes a big expiring. Thomas is still good for a double-double. If only he didn't have that me-first attitude.
And finally yes, we traded the beloved Bobby Jackson and myself
(to the Jazz ) and in the end Bonzi bolted. Bobby was getting injured and playing about half a season and was coming up on a payday we weren't going to give him (basically Bobby would've been gone after this year too). And in the end we are "stuck" with Kevin Martin as the starting SG (which a lot of fans were debating during last season ..whether KMart should start). And IMO it is Kevin's time to shine. We have a young guard-oriented bench with Garcia and now Salmons to back the swingman positions and Douby and Price potentially to back up Bibby.Let's face it, players get old and teams can't stay as they were. Change in inevitable. And I'm sure we all wish that original team that brought back the life in Sacramento basketball were still here in their primes, but it just doesn't work that way.
Mad D
Starter
NO not a bad move. I liked those moves. Where the eff did I (myself and not paraphrasing Bricks in order to defend that he is was not saying that those old favorites should still be around) say that? Those were great moves, letting the pieces traded back walk away for nothing was ****ty.
