Geoff Petrie knows what he’s doing…

You know, while I feel fairly certain you have been around before, because basically nobody pops on as a complete *** thast quickly, let's just pretend you really have 7 total posts on the board. Now with that as the basic premise, let's make the next logical conclusion -- you are fundamentally unqualified to opine on, not to mention severely confused about what I, if in charge of the Kings, would have done with anybody.

Being acused by a newbie who is likely just a trolling front for an older poster, of having myopia is of roughly as much concern to me as whether to pop a zit on my *** tonight, or wait until tommorow. You have no clue what you are talking about.

You want to opine on me or my opinions, either a) hang around long enough to actually understand what you are talking about; or b) take back up your alter ego with enough posts that your opinion matters. Either way, don't be popping up on this board in all your newbie glory and making a fool of yourself opining on things about which you could not possibly have a clue.

Wow. The seven (or eight or nine or whatever now) are all I have ever posted here...If I knew the drivel that you continually spew counted for "respectability" or what-have-you, I'd certainly make a pretty good rating refuting what you say. I've been around for a while, haven't posted...you make things so inviting. You want to claim I'm a "noob," fine...I am to this board.

As far as having a clue, having 10k more posts or so doesn't seem to make a difference.
 
Don't you think that has a lot to do with the Maloofs tightening their purse strings?


Quite possibly. That certainly turned/changed in the offseason after 02-03. The disaster was Webb's knee -- when we proved we could not win it all with the main man down, all that spending on benchers went by the wayside.

But here would be the interesting take on that. Let's assume the Maloofs tightening things up were/are part of the problem. A reasonable premise to be sure. Now if that is true though, was Geoff Petrie really that amazing in the first place? Or did he just have an advanatage that 90% of the GMs out there didn't -- a pair of freespending owners greenlighting anything he wanted to do? Remember, when did Geoff become deity? Same time the Maloofs arrived. Maybe not a coincidence. He had not done a bad job before they got here, and Peja was in the wings, but certainly he had had no great success under the previous regime. And now working under the same fiscal contraints that most GMs have, he is having lesser success. Under this same regime would we have been able to retain Webb? Would there even have been a Golden Era? What about Doug -- similar position to Bonzi. Do we just let him walk then? Mike? Scot? Is Geoff ever genius in the first place if he's having to fight the Maloofs for pennies?

There's two ways of looking at it. Bad/cheap Maloofs sure. But then the question, can Geoff win big under a bad/cheap Maloof regime?
 
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NO not a bad move. I liked those moves. Where the eff did I (myself and not refering to Bricks post just to defend that he is was not saying that those old favorites should still be around) say that? Those were great moves, letting the pieces traded back walk away for notthing was ****ty.


Let's not be premature about this yet. Yes, Mobley walked when Petrie would have prefered to S&T him. However, let's be honest, that deal from the Clippers came out of left field. No one ever expected that. Yes, Petrie ultimatley needs to take responsibility, but it's not as if he was being reckless, it looked as it we would get a piece for him and the only team with real cap space, the notoriously frugal Clippers put an offer out there.

With Bonzi, I think it's too early to say we let him walk away for nothing. Sure that might happen, but unless I missed some late breaking news, he had not signed with anybody and his agent was still trying to make a S&T happen to get him more money than the MLE.
 
Quite possibly. That certianly turned int he offseason after 02-03. The disaster was Webb's knee -- when we prived we could not win it all with the main man down, all that spending on benchers went by the wayside.

But here would be the interesting take on that. Let's assume the Maloofs tightening things up were/are part of the problem. A reasonable premise to be sure. Now if that is true though, was Geoff Petrie really that amazing in the first place? Or did he just have an advanatage that 90% of the GMs out there didn't -- a pair of freespending owners greenlighting anything he wanted to do? Remember, when did Geoff become deity? Same time the Maloofs arrived. Maybe not a coincidence. he had not done a bad jhob before they got here, and Peja was in the wings, but certainly he had had no great success under the previous regime. And now working under the same fiscal contraints that most GMs have, he is having lesser success.

There's two ways of looking at it. Bad/cheap Maloofs sure. But then the question, can Geoff win big under a bad/cheap Maloof regime?

Keep in mind th original contender he built was reasonably priced. Now some of the extensions and side additions (e.g. Keon Clark and Jim Jackson) put us at a level the Maloofs didn't want to continue at. However, the original Webber, Vlade, Bibby (post Williams trade), Christie, Peja, Hedo, Bo Jackson, and Pollard core was cost effective.
 
NO not a bad move. I liked those moves. Where the eff did I (myself and not paraphrasing Bricks in order to defend that he is was not saying that those old favorites should still be around) say that? Those were great moves, letting the pieces traded back walk away for nothing was ****ty.

Who would the Clippers have given back that would be worth their salary last year?

Look, I'd rather see a sign and trade for any assets, but there is a problem or two with that idea. First, cap room; I wouldn't want to be on the hook for $7 mil/year for Mobley or for the $6+ year for Jackson. Those teams could sign those players outright without a S+T. And why would they? Why benefit a competing team?
 
Wow. The seven (or eight or nine or whatever now) are all I have ever posted here...If I knew the drivel that you continually spew counted for "respectability" or what-have-you, I'd certainly make a pretty good rating refuting what you say. I've been around for a while, haven't posted...you make things so inviting. You want to claim I'm a "noob," fine...I am to this board.

As far as having a clue, having 10k more posts or so doesn't seem to make a difference.


Don't actually believe you, but until I can place the IP we'll take that at face value just for kicks.

A long as you are going to be around, however briefly, let me educate you a bit so that you don't make the same mistake again:

1) Portalnd went to something like 10 straight playoffs after Geoff left, including a single WCF where they lost to the Lakers in 7 games, just like us. I'd provide a link, but you'll just have to muddle through the confirmation process yourself. Maybe try googling "nba" and "blazers" to get started.

2) I have never claimed to know what the offer was to Bonzi. You are sadly confused again. I do know what a reasonable offer would have been however.

3) Your economics appears shaky as well as if it were not you would realize that just because you pay x for an asset does not make that asset's true value x in a bidding environment. If I can't sell that asset for what I paid for it, its value is not x. Kenny Thomas's value is not $7mil for 4 yrs as he is impossible to sell at that price. His value is considerably less. It is only his COST that is that much. Cost > value = bad. And if the opportunity cost of acquiring the asset is greater than the value of the asset itself (i.e. either Bonzi or other players with the MLE), things get even worse.

4) And now you are pulling stuff straight out of your behind, as other than shaky reading skills I cannot even remotely imagine where you think you got me keeping Vlade or Doug around until retirement. Of course what you have done is jumped to conclusions bolstered by your complete ignorance of this board or my oft stated views. Not to mention of course your necessary desire to distort as much as possible in an effort to prove your...er...whatever it was you were tryign to prove. Webb would still be here instead of the flexible garbage of coourse, but here's another shocker for you to puzzle out -- have oft stated, in those 10000 or so posts you should have read before opening your mouth in the first place, that I might have traded Webb too...if there was anything of real value coming back the other way. I leave it to the sheep however to dump the best player in Sacto franchise history for a pile of spare parts with unmoveable contracts. That was fricken brilliant. We've had a lot of success with it too.
 
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Don't actually believe you, but until I can place the IP we'll take that at face value just for kicks.

A long as you are going to be around, however briefly, let me educate you a bit so that you don't make the same mistake again:

1) Portalnd went to something like 10 straight playoffs after Geoff left, including a single WCF where they lost to the Lakers in 7 games, just like us. I'd provide a link, but you'll just have to muddle through the confirmation process yourself. Maybe try googling "nba" and "blazers" to get started.

2) I have never claimed to know what the offer was to Bonzi. You are sadly confused again. I do know what a reasonable offer would have been however.

3) Your economics appears shaky as well as if it were not you would realize that just because you pay x for an asset does not make that asset's true value x in a bidding environment. If I can't sell that asset for what I paid for it, its value is not x. Kenny Thomas's value is not $7mil for 4 yrs as he is impossible to sell at that price. His value is considerably less. It is only his COST that is that much. Cost > value = bad. And if the opportunity cost of acquiring the asset is greater than the value of the asset itself (i.e. either Bonzi or other players with the MLE), things get even worse.

4) And now you are pulling stuff straight out of your behind, as other than shaky reading skills I cannot even remotely imagine where you think you got me keeping Vlade or Doug around until retirement. Of course what you have done is jumped to conclusions bolstered by your complete ignorance of this board or my oft stated views. Not to mention of course your necessary desire to distort as much as possible in an effort to prove your...er...whatever it was you were tryign to prove. Webb would still be here instead of the flexible garbage of coourse, but here's another shocker for you to puzzle out -- have oft stated, in those 10000 or so posts you should have read before opening your mouth in the first place, that I might have traded Webb too...if there was anything of real value coming back the other way. I leave it to the clueless and cowardly however to dump the best player in Sacto franchise history for a pile of spare parts with unmoveable contracts. That was fricken brilliant. We've had a lot of success with it too.

Place my IP all you want...I'm new. Ban me, and well, that would be craptastic to the rest of the board.

ANYWAY, one WCF, lost to the Lakers in 7 games, that sounds familiar. What possibly could that prove? I don't care about confirmation; Petrie is employed by a team in the NBA and Whitsett-to my knowledge-is not.

The "$40 mil for 5 years" was something you seemed happy to endorse. In case you want to verify, you can search this board. It is too maddening for me search your posts.

What was paid for John Salmons was his market value at this time. This is what the market has shown. Kenny Thomas has nothing to do with this. Deal with it. Your economics lecture (very impressive!!) is faulted. Sorry, but facts are important.

You suggest that we traded these players for these other players. Again, this is myopic. The point that I was trying to make, and if you had taken the time to read what I referenced to you would realize this, is that you suggest that the Kings' starting lineup were traded and replaced by scrubs, straight up. And that isn't how things work. I'd like to think I wasn't the first to break this to you.
 
Petrie knew when he brought Mobley to Sacramento he would be a free agent the next year. Petrie knew when he brought Bonzi to Sacramento he would be a free agent the next year. Please don't even bring Webber into the equation - it was an entirely different situation.

What some people are saying is they think Petrie should have been able to plan better for the eventual FA situation than he did with either Mobley or Bonzi. That, in and of itself, is a valid statement.

There are points to be made on both sides. It's not black and white. If it was that easy, anyone could be a GM.
 
This topic seems to have gotten pretty testy. I'm not sure its fair, however, to say that Petrie has been operating under the same fiscal restraints as other GMs. I'd say his restraints have been more severe.

He had a team that had one of the highest salaries in the league and had to work his way down to a more "normally" restrained budget, once the Maloofs tired of paying the luxury tax and couldn't jack up ticket prices much higher. I would suggest it's probably much harder to drastically reduce your overall team salary than working under the same restraints all along as most of the rest of the GMS.

I also, don't think its entirely coincidence that, as the team finally got under the luxury tax limit last season, the Kings are apparently holding ticket prices level next year. It must have been difficult to try and stay competitive while you cut and cut and cut payroll.
 
Place my IP all you want...I'm new. Ban me, and well, that would be craptastic to the rest of the board.

ANYWAY, one WCF, lost to the Lakers in 7 games, that sounds familiar. What possibly could that prove? I don't care about confirmation; Petrie is employed by a team in the NBA and Whitsett-to my knowledge-is not.

The "$40 mil for 5 years" was something you seemed happy to endorse. In case you want to verify, you can search this board. It is too maddening for me search your posts.

What was paid for John Salmons was his market value at this time. This is what the market has shown. Kenny Thomas has nothing to do with this. Deal with it. Your economics lecture (very impressive!!) is faulted. Sorry, but facts are important.

You suggest that we traded these players for these other players. Again, this is myopic. The point that I was trying to make, and if you had taken the time to read what I referenced to you would realize this, is that you suggest that the Kings' starting lineup were traded and replaced by scrubs, straight up. And that isn't how things work. I'd like to think I wasn't the first to break this to you.

Oh my, arrogance and fuzzy logic together. Not a good sign.


Let's see here, to summarize:

1) in your efforts to glorify Geoff you go ahead and imply that Portland has done poorly wihtout him. I find that an amusing argument and point out that Portland has in fact done quite well without Geoff, in fact getting as close to a title as Geoff himself has. You don't like that, and so now you try to shift your argument over with a petulant "I don't care because Whitsett was fired". Of course you have to be a little careful when trying to change argument midstream -- to whit, if Whitsett sucks and Whitsdett was fired, and Whitsett nonetheless just kept on winning up there for a long time after Geoff left, indeed got as close as Geoff did himself to a title, then what does that say about Geoff's specialness and irreplaceability? With friend's like you, Geoff doesn't need enemies.

2) first of all of course, as the arrogant newbie with a handful of posts who wants to come darting onto the board to start throwing accusations around about where I stand on things, it is entirely up to you to come up with those citations. Because I'm telling you right now you are fuill of ****, and will be until you can back up any of your tripe. Might do you some good too to read my old posts -- a little education goes a long ways. ;)
Secondly, of course I cheerfully endorsed $40mil for 5yrs. What should have been offered. Quite a common viewpoint actually. But your tripe was clearly aimed at some sort of bogus accusation that I implied I knew what WAS offered. Which I did not. Been rather explicit about that actually. So either go find your bogus citation, or drop it.

3) the whole stupid value of Salmons thing. So many ways to go at this. Of course many of them have already been shown to you, but you're taking logic courses from Steven A. Smith or something, and so elect to grab hold of the simplistic little idea that a player's value is whatever you pay for him.
There are of course at least two major holes to that theory. First of all players in the NBA have a tangible "value" irregardless of $$ -- their value on the court. They are utilitarian assets who's "worth" can be measured in their contributions to on court victory. No matter how much money you pay Mateen Cleaves, his value is still less than Dwayne Wade's.
Secondly is the not too difficult point that seemed to sail right over your head -- price (particualrly in an auction where you always pay more than anybody else in the market is wiling to) does NOT = value after the auction is over. Value, in a $$ sense, does not depend on what YOU paid for an item, but on what the next guy will pay for that item. If I spend $1 billion on an outhouse, tommorow that outhouse's value is not worth $1billion unless somebody else will buy it off of me for that amount. This BTW, does not even get into the fact that both of Salmons suitors were out of the game by the time we arrived, and there WAS no market being set. No competition.


4) Your fourth point is so muddled as to be uinintelligible at this point, I think largely because you keep on shifting it around as your original point to try to keep it viable. You did however use "myopic" almost correctly, for which I am very proud of you.
Of course given that I am sure whatever it was was an absolutely brilliant and devastating broadside sure to drive me off the board weeping never to return, feel free to clean it up and try again. Would hate for the board to miss out on any of your wit an wisdom.
 
While we're talking about economics, there's a concept that Matthew Yglesias brought up in his blog: the "Winner's Curse", which is a concept that applies to winning auctions. The winning bidder might not be the individual who properly values what he is bidding on, and the "Winner's Curse" is when you lose by winning an auction because you're stuck with something you paid too much for.

So let's just hope we don't have this particular Winner's Curse with Salmons.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/yglesias/2006/jul/06/winners_curse
 
Oh my, arrogance and fuzzy logic together. Not a good sign.

You are so polite. How's that IP check coming?

1) in your efforts to glorify Geoff you go ahead and imply that Portland has done poorly wihtout him. I find that an amusing argument and point out that Portland has in fact done quite well without Geoff, in fact getting as close to a title as Geoff himself has. You don't like that, and so now you try to shift your argument over with a petulant "I don't care because Whitsett was fired". Of course you have to be a little careful when trying to change argument midstream -- to whit, if Whitsett sucks and Whitsdett was fired, and Whitsett nonetheless just kept on winning up there for a long time after Geoff left, indeed got as close as Geoff did himself to a title, then what does that say about Geoff's specialness and irreplaceability? With friend's like you, Geoff doesn't need enemies.

Well, I'm happy I brought a smile to your face. I never said "I don't care because Whitsett was fired." Once. Don't start making things up now. And I have never glorified Petrie; all I have said is that I'd rather have Petrie than Whitsett. And I'm not his friend. With enemies like you, who cares?

2) first of all of course, as the arrogant newbie with a handful of posts who wants to come darting onto the board to start throwing accusations around about where I stand on things, it is entirely up to you to come up with those citations. Because I'm telling you right now you are fuill of ****, and will be until you can back up any of your tripe. Might do you some good too to read my old posts -- a little education goes a long ways. ;)
Secondly, of course I cheerfully endorsed $40mil for 5yrs. What should have been offered. Quite a common viewpoint actually. But your tripe was clearly aimed at some sort of bogus accusation that I implied I knew what WAS offered. Which I did not. Been rather explicit about that actually. So either go find your bogus citation, or drop it.

You know, you are right: education can go a long way; you should try it. I'm not going to look through your posts; if you can't quote me correctly after a handful of posts I certainly am not going to entertain reading through your endless drivel.

3) the whole stupid value of Salmons thing. So many ways to go at this. Of course many of them have already been shown to you, but you're taking logic courses from Steven A. Smith or something, and so elect to grab hold of the simplistic little idea that a player's value is whatever you pay for him.
There are of course at least two major holes to that theory. First of all players in the NBA have a tangible "value" irregardless of $$ -- their value on the court. They are utilitarian assets who's "worth" can be measured in their contributions to on court victory. No matter how much money you pay Mateen Cleaves, his value is still less than Dwayne Wade's.
Secondly is the not too difficult point that seemed to sail right over your head -- price (particualrly in an auction where you always pay more than anybody else in the market is wiling to) does NOT = value after the auction is over. Value, in a $$ sense, does not depend on what YOU paid for an item, but on what the next guy will pay for that item. If I spend $1 billion on an outhouse, tommorow that outhouse's value is not worth $1billion unless somebody else will buy it off of me for that amount. This BTW, does not even get into the fact that both of Salmons suitors were out of the game by the time we arrived, and there WAS no market being set. No competition.

First, you don't know what he was offered by anyone else or who he spoke with outside of Phoenix, Toronto and Sac. So, again, you are trying to make your opinion fact. And you opinion is as worthless as mine. So stop that...

Am I the only one who remembers Salmons backing out of a 5 year/$21 mil and then 5 year/$23 mil deal from teams other than the Kings? Sounds like the Kings payed slightly more than the market that was set. So your value/cost equation is irrelevant. Its called the economics of the NBA. But since I am on the subject, I'm not talking about (nor do I want to) Mateen Cleaves or Dwayne Wade or outhouses. But Marcus Banks on the other hand....

And please stop trying to insult my intelligence. It is childish.

4) Your fourth point is so muddled as to be uinintelligible at this point, I think largely because you keep on shifting it around as your original point to try to keep it viable. You did however use "myopic" almost correctly, for which I am very proud of you.
Of course given that I am sure whatever it was was an absolutely brilliant and devastating broadside sure to drive me off the board weeping never to return, feel free to clean it up and try again. Would hate for the board to miss out on any of your wit an wisdom.

Oh, there you go again. It is nice to know that you took the time to look up "myopia." Go back and read my post again. Try it slower and maybe you will get it this time. It isn't difficult...

You think I'm trying to get you off of this board? Or make you cry? Hardly. What do I care if you post here? And more importantly, what do you care I post here?
 
Oh my, arrogance and fuzzy logic together. Not a good sign.


Let's see here, to summarize:

1) in your efforts to glorify Geoff you go ahead and imply that Portland has done poorly wihtout him. I find that an amusing argument and point out that Portland has in fact done quite well without Geoff, in fact getting as close to a title as Geoff himself has. You don't like that, and so now you try to shift your argument over with a petulant "I don't care because Whitsett was fired". Of course you have to be a little careful when trying to change argument midstream -- to whit, if Whitsett sucks and Whitsdett was fired, and Whitsett nonetheless just kept on winning up there for a long time after Geoff left, indeed got as close as Geoff did himself to a title, then what does that say about Geoff's specialness and irreplaceability? With friend's like you, Geoff doesn't need enemies.

2) first of all of course, as the arrogant newbie with a handful of posts who wants to come darting onto the board to start throwing accusations around about where I stand on things, it is entirely up to you to come up with those citations. Because I'm telling you right now you are fuill of ****, and will be until you can back up any of your tripe. Might do you some good too to read my old posts -- a little education goes a long ways. ;)
Secondly, of course I cheerfully endorsed $40mil for 5yrs. What should have been offered. Quite a common viewpoint actually. But your tripe was clearly aimed at some sort of bogus accusation that I implied I knew what WAS offered. Which I did not. Been rather explicit about that actually. So either go find your bogus citation, or drop it.

3) the whole stupid value of Salmons thing. So many ways to go at this. Of course many of them have already been shown to you, but you're taking logic courses from Steven A. Smith or something, and so elect to grab hold of the simplistic little idea that a player's value is whatever you pay for him.
There are of course at least two major holes to that theory. First of all players in the NBA have a tangible "value" irregardless of $$ -- their value on the court. They are utilitarian assets who's "worth" can be measured in their contributions to on court victory. No matter how much money you pay Mateen Cleaves, his value is still less than Dwayne Wade's.
Secondly is the not too difficult point that seemed to sail right over your head -- price (particualrly in an auction where you always pay more than anybody else in the market is wiling to) does NOT = value after the auction is over. Value, in a $$ sense, does not depend on what YOU paid for an item, but on what the next guy will pay for that item. If I spend $1 billion on an outhouse, tommorow that outhouse's value is not worth $1billion unless somebody else will buy it off of me for that amount. This BTW, does not even get into the fact that both of Salmons suitors were out of the game by the time we arrived, and there WAS no market being set. No competition.


4) Your fourth point is so muddled as to be uinintelligible at this point, I think largely because you keep on shifting it around as your original point to try to keep it viable. You did however use "myopic" almost correctly, for which I am very proud of you.
Of course given that I am sure whatever it was was an absolutely brilliant and devastating broadside sure to drive me off the board weeping never to return, feel free to clean it up and try again. Would hate for the board to miss out on any of your wit an wisdom.

First of all Mr. Bricks, let me thank you for the warm and fuzzy welcome to the board. I'm actually not new as I used to post years ago until I moved to baja. Thus the name.

I don't think it behoves you to speak of anyone else's arrogance. I could use the word condsention also. I beleive if you want to convince someone of something there is a proper way to do it, and talking down to someone isn't it.

Your obviously a bright guy who has mind made up about some things and I'm not about to change them. We just simply have a difference of opinion.

Also, as far as what something is worth, or what a player is worth is probably best determined by what he or it is worth to the person buying at the time and not how much you can get for he or it later.

I'm sure you have things that are of great value to you that I wouldn't give a plug nickel for. My opinion is worthless as long as your happy with what you have.

Petrie has been accused of being cheap and not offering enough for some players and then in the next breath he's being accused of paying too much. As in Salmons case. The jury is still out on that one until we see what he can do in a new inviorment.

By the way, I disagree that the Kings found out they couldn't win when the big guy went down with a knee injury. They were playing great basketball until he imposed his way back onto the floor. I don't blame Webb for that. He wanted to play. I do blame Addelman for not having the b--l's to control the situation. Even Miller commented on how the chemistry went south when Webb came back.
 
By the way, I disagree that the Kings found out they couldn't win when the big guy went down with a knee injury.
They couldn't beat the Mavericks; I don't think it's a coincidence that the only time they ever lost to them in the playoffs was the year that Webber went down.
 
By the way, I disagree that the Kings found out they couldn't win when the big guy went down with a knee injury. They were playing great basketball until he imposed his way back onto the floor. I don't blame Webb for that. He wanted to play. I do blame Addelman for not having the b--l's to control the situation. Even Miller commented on how the chemistry went south when Webb came back.

half agree. i think it's been mentioned by several posters here with far better memory than me that the 03-04 hot streak was due to an easy front-loaded schedule.
 
There were a number of factors. Webb's return only being one of them. The others were

1. Easy front-loaded schedule
2. Bobby J getting hurt again
3. Vlade tanking the second half of the season

Most importantly, we'll never really know what could have happened. I would have preferred we have kept Keon Clark and Jim Jackson or gone after Malone more aggressively as a temporary Webb replacement, and told Webb just to sit the year out and take his time with rehab (note Amare didn't learn the lesson either).

Or we should have told Webb to sit the year out, given Christie and Bobby time off too, pulled a Spurs circa 1997 and tanked the season and gone after Dwight Howard. Nothing you can do know now though. Just idle, summer second guessing.
 
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There were a number of factors. Webb's return only being one of them. The others were

1. Easy front-loaded schedule
2. Bobby J getting hurt again
3. Vlade tanking the second half of the season

Most importantly, we'll never really know what could have happened. I would have preferred we have kept Keon Clark and Jim Jackson or gone after Malone more aggressively as a temporary Webb replacement, and told Webb just to sit the year out and take his time with rehab (note Amare didn't learn the lesson either).

Or we should have told Webb to sit the year out, given Christie and Bobby time off too, pulled a Spurs circa 1997 and tanked the season and gone after Dwight Howard. Nothing you can do know now though. Just idle, summer second guessing.


I can't really argue with much of what you said. I agree that its all second guessing at this point. I do think that its a little early to start second guessing the moves that have been made so far, or should I say move that has been made. I'll reserve my judgement till the middle of the season, when I actually have something to judge.
 
By the way, I disagree that the Kings found out they couldn't win when the big guy went down with a knee injury. They were playing great basketball until he imposed his way back onto the floor. I don't blame Webb for that. He wanted to play. I do blame Addelman for not having the b--l's to control the situation. Even Miller commented on how the chemistry went south when Webb came back.


We were beating nobodies and playing no defense. We were doomed in the playoffs anyway. Likely the same round we went out in the end. Soft pretty teams do not win titles. Ever.

The lesson we learned the year before. Make the playoffs, sure. Win the whole thing? Not a chance. Teams without their best players do not win NBA titles.
 
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There were a number of factors. Webb's return only being one of them. The others were

1. Easy front-loaded schedule
2. Bobby J getting hurt again
3. Vlade tanking the second half of the season

Most importantly, we'll never really know what could have happened. I would have preferred we have kept Keon Clark and Jim Jackson or gone after Malone more aggressively as a temporary Webb replacement, and told Webb just to sit the year out and take his time with rehab (note Amare didn't learn the lesson either).

Or we should have told Webb to sit the year out, given Christie and Bobby time off too, pulled a Spurs circa 1997 and tanked the season and gone after Dwight Howard. Nothing you can do know now though. Just idle, summer second guessing.

If the Spurs can tank a season and get Duncan, why cannot we and get Dwight Howard. ;)
We sure let a lot of good players go (Wallace, Hedo, etc) that are now showing what they can do with some playing time. We really need to get our bench to what it once was, while it's great we have the youth...we need some veteran leadership to and I don't mean Corliss...I mean more in line with what Sam Cassell is doing in LA. ;)
 
I actually felt the Kings were playing great basketball prior to Webber's return not just an easy schedule or shoddy defense.

When he came back the feeling out process stalled the cohesiveness. I did blame him at the time. In retrospect though he was their BEST player, and it was no coincidence he's the only one who showed up when it mattered against Minny and very nearly got us past them. They could not have won it all without him at his best.

My complaint was his postgame behavior. Perhaps simply emotional from a lost, but IMO the charismatic magic that was the Kings died that night.

Typically painful turn of events and unfortunately part for the course in our up and down travails with this team. Horry. Bibby's money jumper at the buzzer. The horror of watching Game 6 at the Staples Center. Inspired play, a missed hook by Vlade against Utah. Artest gives hope, Bonzi goes.

I'm all over the place. The ups and downs take a toll. It's tough to be a King fan.
 
We were beating nobodies and playing no defense. We were doomed in the playoffs anyway. Likely the same round we went out in the end. Soft pretty teams do not win titles. Ever.

The lesson we learned the year before. Make the playoffs, sure. Win the whole thing? Not a chance. Teams without their best players do not win NBA titles.


You could be right, about the outcome being the same I mean. I agree that soft teams don't win. I do think the Kings could have gone farther than they went. Not that it would have mattered.

No one loved Webb more than I did. He is probably the best Sacramento era player ever. He is however not the same player he used to be. Webb never had great lateral movement and it has only gotten worse since his injury. Were he here, we would probably be even worse defensively than we are now. We'd probably collect a few more rebounds. Would we be a better team?
I doubt it. It saddens me to say that, but its the truth as I see it.
 
You could be right, about the outcome being the same I mean. I agree that soft teams don't win. I do think the Kings could have gone farther than they went. Not that it would have mattered.

No one loved Webb more than I did. He is probably the best Sacramento era player ever. He is however not the same player he used to be. Webb never had great lateral movement and it has only gotten worse since his injury. Were he here, we would probably be even worse defensively than we are now. We'd probably collect a few more rebounds. Would we be a better team?
I doubt it. It saddens me to say that, but its the truth as I see it.


i do think they would've been better offensively though. and better offense might've won more games, hence better team.
 
After playing in the NBA Finals twice in three years, the Portland Trailblazers would continue to make the playoffs for another eleven years. Seattle continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '96. Utah continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '98. New Jersey has continued to make the playoffs after their last trip to the Finals in '03.

Even your example of the recent Trailblazers is thin, since they made the playoffs for three more years after the last season that they were truly a title contender (1999-2000).

Are you sure about these?

Seattle sunk low in the WC and eventually made the playoffs one season before missing the playoffs again this year.

Utah has been out of the playoffs for several straight seasons. They never retooled at all. Stockton and Malone grew old and they became bad and are trying to rebuild. BTW, these teams were still contenders after they made it to the finals, the Kings too were still contenders after losing to the Lakers in 7 games. The year after we lost to Minnesota is when the official "non-contender status" was confered upon us.

The Blazers aren't as good of an example, because their string of wins took place in the pre-salary cap/luxury tax era. Their salaries kept building until the NBA changed the rules. Essentially, they never needed to "rework" their team, just keep buying more free agents. By the time Trader Bob's string ended, the Blazers had a team salary that would make Mark Cuban blush (not James Dolan though).
 
Well, for some reason my "posting rules" box says I may not edit my posts or post attachments

those of us that are new to the site cannot edit, post attachments, vote in or create polls, have an avatar or signature or even send mods PMs. I think they are trying to fix it???
 
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