[Game] [VSL Game 2] Kings vs. Bulls, 7/12/2015 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern (NBATV)

[Joshyjosh31]

Their value is at the deadline giving a team a bump. They need to be playing well.

Same thing I heard months ago when I said we’d get nothing of value for Derozan this summer and was told teams would be there for him

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Same thing I heard months ago when I said we’d get nothing of value for Derozan this summer and was told teams would be there for him

We're not even 2 weeks into the signing period. The East is wide open. A bit early to be patting yourself on the back.

 

[kingdivac]

Perry should pull DC off the trade table and concentrate on moving the vets (DDR, Lavine or Monk).

Gotta give playing time for the young guys to show if they can be a 2 way monster in the league.

Especially Lavine.....

 

[kingdivac]

Very much ready to slot him in as the primary back-up wing.

Gotta get creative on how you finagle getting Monk/Keon/Carter all on the floor. Good thing we didn't sign a 32 year old FA guard or anything...

Yeah I don't like it much either......overthinking.

 

[kingdivac]

It was fine, but nothing special in a SL game. What makes him special is his ability to make plays for others at the 3 point line for others.

Did you catch the Yang highlights? - guys got similar level or better passing to Reynard and better blocking. Still like Reynard's left hand though.....

 

[kingdivac]

Good overall game.
Not too sloppy for a SL game. Good passing and good unselfish team play.

Bulls were without Matas (lotto pick last year) and lost lotto pick this year due to leg injury during game.

Nique can ball. Has a good handle, makes right play, active, rebounds well, makes good pass, and can hit 3. He's ready for mins at the next level.

Max doean't seem ready for mins at the next level. There are too many things to address. Offensively, he looks great, sets screens, rolls hard, picks spots, good fundamentals, has hook with left or right, has range, has a 2-man game, and makes good passes. Defensively he's a mess. He doesn't rebound or defend well enough to be a center. Reaches as opposed to putting himself between player and rim. Timing, instinct, positioning, footwork all need major work.

Yeah he's getting whooped on defense - and this is the summer league.

 

[sactowndog]

Carter didn't even try to run the point, especially in the last two quarters. Perhaps by the coach's decision?
Nique's court vision is excellent, although he needs to work on his pinpoint passing.

He ran and ****ed up a few fast breaks.

Look I want Carter to be successful. I want all young guys to be successful. I know personally what it’s like to be a parent watching your child fighting for a position on a team. I remember talking to my father, who had long since passed away, about my son fighting for a spot on the Rio Olympic team. As a parent it’s far harder to watch your child than compete yourself.

Coaches and GM’s are looking for what translates to the next level. Carter is not going to be asked to take step back 3’s in the NBA. He has to be able to run a team from the point. I honestly really hope he learns but the last 2 games were not encouraging.

 

[sactowndog]

Plus Domas has a dozen kids and Keegan just got married.

And both Chicago guys are on the trading block.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Drafting old rooks paying off

Sure that’s one way to put it. Another is drafting for ability rather than potential.

 

[sactowndog]

As much as it hurts, moving Monk solves the issue for the most part. Our starting 5 plus Devin, Keon, Cliff, IJ and Max. I think teams are going to be moving to a true 9-10 man rotation due to pace of play and injuries. Speaking of Monk, Vecenie was talking about how devalued one way guards are in the NBA right now citing guys like Norman Powell. He had an all star level season and was basically let go for Pennies on the dollar. Sexton was traded WITH a pick for Nurkic. Jordan Clarkson. Makes sense that Monk has limited value given his contract. He said that archetype is like the running back position in the NFL.

Guards in general with a few exceptions are undervalued. Too easy to replace versus forwards. It’s why Monte’s picks were a disaster.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

We're not even 2 weeks into the signing period. The East is wide open. A bit early to be patting yourself on the back.

It can be open but we’re still getting second round picks all we’re doing is delaying it and worsening our draft slot

And both Chicago guys are on the trading block.

Wishful thinking

 

[sactowndog]

As much as it hurts, moving Monk solves the issue for the most part. Our starting 5 plus Devin, Keon, Cliff, IJ and Max. I think teams are going to be moving to a true 9-10 man rotation due to pace of play and injuries. Speaking of Monk, Vecenie was talking about how devalued one way guards are in the NBA right now citing guys like Norman Powell. He had an all star level season and was basically let go for Pennies on the dollar. Sexton was traded WITH a pick for Nurkic. Jordan Clarkson. Makes sense that Monk has limited value given his contract. He said that archetype is like the running back position in the NFL.

If you move Monk who is your back up point?

 

[kingsfan101]

If you move Monk who is your back up point?

Keon.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Keon.

Keon isn’t a pg the answer to his question is westbrick

 

[kingsfan101]

Keon isn’t a pg the answer to his question is westbrick

I don't know how good will Ellis be at running the team. I feel that he will do fine in spurts, particularly when a lot of offense runs through Domas, and we have iso heavy players in DDR and Lavine.

Overall, I feel that Ellis should have more time on the court, and finding him minutes at the 1 is a surer way of managing that.

 

[SacTownKid]

He ran and ****ed up a few fast breaks.

Look I want Carter to be successful. I want all young guys to be successful. I know personally what it’s like to be a parent watching your child fighting for a position on a team. I remember talking to my father, who had long since passed away, about my son fighting for a spot on the Rio Olympic team. As a parent it’s far harder to watch your child than compete yourself.

Coaches and GM’s are looking for what translates to the next level. Carter is not going to be asked to take step back 3’s in the NBA. He has to be able to run a team from the point. I honestly really hope he learns but the last 2 games were not encouraging.

He'll be asked to get into the middle off pick and roll if he's a PG, and yes, plenty of scoring PG/SG's have a step back as a primary move in their arsenal. That's a real deal NBA move, has been for a long time. Will it translate fully? Time will tell but if it does yeah, no coach should have an issue with it.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't know how good will Ellis be at running the team. I feel that he will do fine in spurts, particularly when a lot of offense runs through Domas, and we have iso heavy players in DDR and Lavine.

Overall, I feel that Ellis should have more time on the court, and finding him minutes at the 1 is a surer way of managing that.

Keon has showed some passing skill but you can watch players like Clifford and Carter and how they navigate pick and roll and tell the difference. Keon is a 3 and D SG pure and simple. A good one too. Carter, Keon, and Clifford together is a great combination on paper. Carter and Clifford as the connective guys and Keon as the floor spreader.

 

[NewArena]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944215853702295609

Bleacher report is such a freaking joke. Now i remember why i had these idiots muted to begin with.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It can be open but we’re still getting second round picks all we’re doing is delaying it and worsening our draft slot

The wildcard is who we have to take back to match salary. Whoever wants Monk, DDR or Zach is going to make us take junk back and that will determine the value of the picks we receive as well.

 

[sactowndog]

Keon has showed some passing skill but you can watch players like Clifford and Carter and how they navigate pick and roll and tell the difference. Keon is a 3 and D SG pure and simple. A good one too. Carter, Keon, and Clifford together is a great combination on paper. Carter and Clifford as the connective guys and Keon as the floor spreader.

I’m not sure what you saw but I thought Carter struggled with the pick and roll.

 

[NewArena]

The wildcard is who we have to take back to match salary. Whoever wants Monk, DDR or Zach is going to make us take junk back and that will determine the value of the picks we receive as well.

I’m personally not ready to just toss Monk or Zach into a deal just yet. I wanna see what they look like with Coach Christie in a full training camp. DDR can go for whatever we can get, if you ask me. From a fit standpoint, i don’t see how this offseason can just continue on with him on the roster.

 

[NewArena]

Sure that’s one way to put it. Another is drafting for ability rather than potential.

Bingo. Drafting 16 year olds just for the sake of saying “omg we’re so young” never made sense to me. This has nothing to do with the post you quoted and I’m just riffing but i can’t stand when people assume that extreme youth equates to having copious amounts of potential. Either you work hard on improving your game each offseason, or you don’t - and a lot of young guys don’t, ending up out of the league as a result.

 

[twslam07]

He ran and ****ed up a few fast breaks.

Look I want Carter to be successful. I want all young guys to be successful. I know personally what it’s like to be a parent watching your child fighting for a position on a team. I remember talking to my father, who had long since passed away, about my son fighting for a spot on the Rio Olympic team. As a parent it’s far harder to watch your child than compete yourself.

Coaches and GM’s are looking for what translates to the next level. Carter is not going to be asked to take step back 3’s in the NBA. He has to be able to run a team from the point. I honestly really hope he learns but the last 2 games were not encouraging.

Carter does not need to able to run a team from the point to be successful. That’s a luxury. Not a necessity for his future success.

 

[The_Jamal]

Carter does not need to able to run a team from the point to be successful. That’s a luxury. Not a necessity for his future success.

We literally just saw the finals littered with Carter archetypes. And if he can have higher upside offensively, thats even better.

What he needs to get to is that Caruso/cason wallace/nembhard/dort type of floor. Suffocating physical defender that gives you floor spacing offensively. I think Carter has more scoring upside than those dudes too; his ability to hit the paint is fairly apparent at this point

 

[Kingster]

Did you catch the Yang highlights? - guys got similar level or better passing to Reynard and better blocking. Still like Reynard's left hand though.....

No, I didn't catch Yang highlights. I'm more focused on Raynaud.

 

[Kingster]

We literally just saw the finals littered with Carter archetypes. And if he can have higher upside offensively, thats even better.

What he needs to get to is that Caruso/cason wallace/nembhard/dort type of floor. Suffocating physical defender that gives you floor spacing offensively. I think Carter has more scoring upside than those dudes too; his ability to hit the paint is fairly apparent at this point

I agree on the need. Not sure whether he's going to fill the need though. I'd like to see a season of relative health from him to be comfortable with him long term. Frankly, from what I've seen I can understand why he's included in some trade talk.

 

[SacTownKid]

I’m not sure what you saw but I thought Carter struggled with the pick and roll.

I watched him get his defender on his back consistently and collapse the defense and or score out of it. Just keeping a live dribble and being able to penetrate and pull back out is a difference maker. He's looked as good as Jones or Stevens while also getting much more defensive attention than them. He's definitely more Monk than pure PG but Monk with great defense is what? Not bad. If he ends up Pat Bev? Not bad either. Also, he's had some really good setups out of pick and roll that weren't finished. Getting high assist numbers in summer league is hit or miss. I'm not sure he's ever getting high assist numbers as a pick and roll player but 1A of any pick and roll player is drawing and kicking. He's done plenty of that so far. If he can get inside then create rotation then that should be fine. He has already gotten the team some good looks with those hockey assists. Again, I'm going back to the modern league 2010 you maybe want a Calderon or a Rondo, today, you want a star looking to SCORE out of pick and roll. Tatum, Jokic, Giannis. The Kings long term don't need a PG, they need a star. Even if Carter ends up a defensive role player POA defender, they'll need a star to create offense. Very few of those are actual PG's these days. Most play the forward spot.

 

[The_Jamal]

I watched him get his defender on his back consistently and collapse the defense and or score out of it. Just keeping a live dribble and being able to penetrate and pull back out is a difference maker. He's looked as good as Jones or Stevens while also getting much more defensive attention than them. He's definitely more Monk than pure PG but Monk with great defense is what? Not bad. If he ends up Pat Bev? Not bad either. Also, he's had some really good setups out of pick and roll that weren't finished. Getting high assist numbers in summer league is hit or miss. I'm not sure he's ever getting high assist numbers as a pick and roll player but 1A of any pick and roll player is drawing and kicking. He's done plenty of that so far. If he can get inside then create rotation then that should be fine. He has already gotten the team some good looks with those hockey assists. Again, I'm going back to the modern league 2010 you maybe want a Calderon or a Rondo, today, you want a star looking to SCORE out of pick and roll. Tatum, Jokic, Giannis. The Kings long term don't need a PG, they need a star. Even if Carter ends up a defensive role player POA defender, they'll need a star to create offense. Very few of those are actual PG's these days. Most play the forward spot.

Yeah, the obsession with high assist numbers from a "traditional" PG is stupid and antiquated.

Got to have shooting and got to have multiple players that can collapse the defense and get a paint touch. Those are the 2 "must haves" in modern basketball

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, the obsession with high assist numbers from a "traditional" PG is stupid and antiquated.

Got to have shooting and got to have multiple players that can collapse the defense and get a paint touch. Those are the 2 "must haves" in modern basketball

And these are things Perry has basically described, so we'll see what gives. Maybe this is just a team in transition. The funny thing is the one guy that can benefit most from someone like Schroder is Carter. Now the question for Devin is going to be turnovers. This is a little like Buddy where it looked like he was turning the ball over at every turn but it wasn't actually the case. In the 30 or so games Carter played he had a decent Assist to turnover ratio of 3.7 to 1.6. No, not what a team wants as a lead ball handler but Carter wasn't just slopping the ball around out there.