[Game] Game 42: Sacramento Kings vs. Brooklyn Nets, 1/21/14. 7 PM pst 10 PM est
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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randymoss1881
Starter
This season is like a scene from the dark knight rises. When bane took Bruce wayne to prison he told him " There's a reason this prison is the worst hell on earth HOPE. There could be no true dispair without hope. "
We had hope at the beginning until it was taken from us that's why this hurts more than other seasons.
We had hope at the beginning until it was taken from us that's why this hurts more than other seasons.
randymoss1881
Starter
I don't care what anyone says with malone here we wouldn't have lost to Brooklyn 2x, celtics, nuggets, Heat, Blazers without LA. Which would have put us at 22-20 3 games back of the 8th seed and we have a bunch of teams in the east coming up in march we easily finish 44-50 wins. You know what I and the test of the league/media say about that type of season. A grade A season and making everyone take notice.
K
KingMilz
Guest
Just like we wouldn't have lost to OKC without Durrant and Westbrook?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
In fact BECAUSE we lost that game we wouldn't have lost the others. Classic learning experience game for a young team. And just as they were getting through their normal allotment of tough losses from which you grow...we hit the reset button and will have to start all over.
Swaze
Bench
This team wasn't going to the playoffs this year with or without Malone. People need to get that out of their head. It's going to take somewhere around 47-50 wins just to get in as the 8th seed and the Kings were not going to win near 50 games even with Malone. They just weren't so we can all stop pretending like the playoffs were practically a lock this year.....they were a dream but unlike the past at least they were not an all night bender pipe-dream.
With that said they were going to win somewhere in the vicinity of 40 games which would have put them just a handful of games out of the playoffs and more importantly it would have put them a good dozen games better than last year. It would have made them a team on the upswing with another expected upswing next year into the playoffs. Under Mike Malone a realistic scenario this year was was win 38-44 games this year and then next year make the jump to 48-52 wins and be somewhere in the 6th to 8th seed range.
As it stands now the best case scenario is that the RESET button has been hit once again and now we have to hope they can win 38 to 44 games next year. The only way they are going to be able to do that is with a better coach, young talent like Ben continuing to get better, and some sort of clear cut plan from the front office. That's a lot of if's which means next year may very well suck too. Worst case scenario is that they hire a guy like Mullin next year and he doesn't know what he is doing and they waste another 2 years spinning their wheels getting nowhere.
With that said they were going to win somewhere in the vicinity of 40 games which would have put them just a handful of games out of the playoffs and more importantly it would have put them a good dozen games better than last year. It would have made them a team on the upswing with another expected upswing next year into the playoffs. Under Mike Malone a realistic scenario this year was was win 38-44 games this year and then next year make the jump to 48-52 wins and be somewhere in the 6th to 8th seed range.
As it stands now the best case scenario is that the RESET button has been hit once again and now we have to hope they can win 38 to 44 games next year. The only way they are going to be able to do that is with a better coach, young talent like Ben continuing to get better, and some sort of clear cut plan from the front office. That's a lot of if's which means next year may very well suck too. Worst case scenario is that they hire a guy like Mullin next year and he doesn't know what he is doing and they waste another 2 years spinning their wheels getting nowhere.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
^i don't think any realistic person here is crying that our playoff hopes were shattered by letting Malone go. The West is too deep.
But there was significant progress and a culture being created. a couple of additions to PDA's crap roster and we would be in the playoffs next year.
38-44 wins this season and a happy locker room and a defensive culture is astronomically better than the dumpster fire situation we have on our hands now
But there was significant progress and a culture being created. a couple of additions to PDA's crap roster and we would be in the playoffs next year.
38-44 wins this season and a happy locker room and a defensive culture is astronomically better than the dumpster fire situation we have on our hands now
lawlman91
Starter
He's generalizing people who like Malone into one big collective hivemind that believes that the playoffs were a lock, and that we are blind fools that get off to Malone's picture at night
And that's what truly hurts. We were really close to a team that mattered again.
Actually, that's not at all what he said. And, for the record, there have been some on here who did think we were playoff bound before Malone was fired.
Read his whole post. There's a lot of truth in there.
randymoss1881
Starter
I wouldn't cap our wins at 38-44 with malone I'd say 42-49. If we got a bench id even say 48-52 wins imagine if we were 17-17 and made a trade for smith/shumpert or we make a trade for T.Young or Stephonson. They would add to our bench which was terrible. If you don't believe our start was real you still have to believe we were a top 12-18 team. Our starters played the best defense of any 5 in the league that bolds for wins. We just needed to adjust the bench and the playoffs were possible.
K
KingMilz
Guest
The unknown is what really hurts the most as a fan of the Kings, cause now are heading into next year and we still don't know if you can successfully build a team with Cousins/Rudy as your #1 and #2 guy. A 15 game sample is simply to small to know if it was legit or simply a lucky start and a lot of good teams taking us lightly. The uncertainty is a killer, you could also argue the other way and say we were on the right track and 1 piece away from being something decent.
This wasted year could turn into a number of wasted years the timing is just as brutal as it gets.
lawlman91
Starter
It is what is implied, that everyone does this.
Yes, there were! Not all of us, unlike what Swaze implies.
I read the whole post; there is truth in that post.
Swaze
Bench
You're arguing semantics and figures of speech. I did not mean literally every single Kings fans thought they were going to the playoffs this year but a fairly sizable portion of the fan base did. A fairly sizable portion of the fans thought they had a really good shot at making the playoffs. Proof is in the numerous posts on this forum and calls to KHTK.
The fact that you are so mad makes me wonder if you were one of them. Bottom line is the Kings were never going to the playoffs this year so the fans that were talking about it and still are talking about it need to stop using that as part of their argument. The argument should be that Michael Malone had the team buying in, he had them playing with discipline, he had them playing defense, he had them playing with chemistry, he had the team heading in the right direction, and he had the team setup perfectly this year to make an even bigger leap forward next year.
Jkbiker
Starter
Its all Brady's Fault!!!
Chubbs
Starter
In none of the scenarios you mentioned did the Kings become an under 30 win team.
Which if this continues is exactly the pace they are on. Thinking a team has a shot at the playoffs doesn't mean most people thought they'd make it. Most rational observers always knew it would be very tough. But the .500 pace, even better with Boogie, was just fine.
And Boogie would have been a mortal lock for the all star team. Now coaches have to decide if they blame boogie or management for what has happened. National perception sure seems to suddenly be on Boogie's side. Management has been so egregiously awful, so indefensible, that I think Boogie is now being viewed as almost a victim of being stuck in this hell hole. A guy putting up massive numbers despite the circus surrounding him. A guy who probably should have destroyed a locker room or punched a teammate by now, but somehow hasn't.
Now? Corbin has already matched Malone's loss total against a crap schedule and with the team's star playing in 6 fewer games. Anyone really thing we'd have sunk 10 games under .500 with Malone? Anyone?
It was downright inevitable once management waived the white flag. That Vivek sold this as a 'win now ' move was an insult (or a delusion by Vivek) I may never get over.
Competing for the playoff spot was the important part. Competing is no longer on this team's agenda, even on a game to game basis. Management took care of that.
Does anyone really think another late lottery pick turns this thing around? Is this worth it?
lawlman91
Starter
I didn't think the Kings were going to the playoffs this year, I swear.
Yes, I was arguing semantics. I didn't completely know what you meant by that comment, thanks for clarifying. I was mad because that comment generalized, or at least heavily implied generalization.
I thought the Kings had an outside shot at the playoffs before DMC left with viral meningitis. It would have been very tough, but with one of the eight teams that made the playoffs last year stumbling out of the blocks due to injuries (OKC) and two of the teams that would be competition for that 8th spot not looking significantly better than the Kings (Denver, Phoenix) if the Kings were able to build a lead and hold off those three teams there was a chance. Especially because the way the Kings were winning (team defense, attacking the basket/FTs) wasn't flukey and presumably the team would continue to get better this season.
Once Boogie went down and the diagnosis was finally revealed I figured the Kings had lost the slight chance they had. But that was always an extreme long shot anyway and was dependent on the Kings being able to hold off the Thunder down the stretch. Good luck with that. But I was still happy with the progress and the incremental improvement we were seeing.
The Kings started 9-5 when they had a healthy Cousins. Even when Malone was fired after DMC missed 10 games the team was still 11-13 and on pace for 37 or 38 wins (37.58 statistically) and I was good with that. Since Corbin has taken over the team has gone 5-13 with Cousins playing in all but two of those games (0-2 in those unsurprisingly) and if they lose to the Warriors tonight they will be 5-14 under Corbin.
And unless that winning percentage changes the Kings will be on pace to win 26 games. Two FEWER than in the last two seasons.
Worst of all I'm not even sure what to root for anymore. Wins because I'm a Kings fan? Losses so that they keep their draft pick and the FO is forced to make a major move? Sheesh.
Once Boogie went down and the diagnosis was finally revealed I figured the Kings had lost the slight chance they had. But that was always an extreme long shot anyway and was dependent on the Kings being able to hold off the Thunder down the stretch. Good luck with that. But I was still happy with the progress and the incremental improvement we were seeing.
The Kings started 9-5 when they had a healthy Cousins. Even when Malone was fired after DMC missed 10 games the team was still 11-13 and on pace for 37 or 38 wins (37.58 statistically) and I was good with that. Since Corbin has taken over the team has gone 5-13 with Cousins playing in all but two of those games (0-2 in those unsurprisingly) and if they lose to the Warriors tonight they will be 5-14 under Corbin.
And unless that winning percentage changes the Kings will be on pace to win 26 games. Two FEWER than in the last two seasons.
Worst of all I'm not even sure what to root for anymore. Wins because I'm a Kings fan? Losses so that they keep their draft pick and the FO is forced to make a major move? Sheesh.
Swaze
Bench
That sentence there is the key. They did have a possible shot at the playoffs before Cousins went down with Meningitis. I think it was still an outside shot but at least they had a shot. Once Cousins went down that destroyed any chance of them making the playoffs this year. The damage was done in terms of playoffs (but not progress) once their record fell to 11-13. A young upstart team like the Kings just isn't going to dig all the way out of that hole and make the playoffs. However there is no reason they could not have won 42 games which would have been a great building block.
Grant Napear has had several callers on his show call and mention the 9-5 start as their basis for thinking the team was going to make the playoffs. Grant tells them that DeMarcus getting sick and the record falling to 11-13 would have prevented them from making the playoffs. I've literally heard 3 different callers now tell Grant that you can't count those games in which DeMarcus was sick. As Grant has had to explain to the callers, the problem is the league does count those losses. In terms of bigger picture and team growth those losses did not necessarily effect the future but they did effect this season.
The worst thing of all about those losses is they gave PDA and Vivek ammunition to fire Malone. Even though PDA claims that he would have fired Malone if the team was 16-9 I think that's highly unlikely and their would have been an all-out revolt if he did. Knowing what we know now it does really suck that DMC got sick because that would have been an even crazier scenario if Malone got fired at 16-9 or got fired at the end of the season with 40-44 wins.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
And hence why I was warning so loudly when Cuz got sick. Quite literally 100% the second worst timed injury/illness in the 30 years of Sacramento basketball (to Webb's knee in the playoffs). It destroyed us. it shouldn't have destroyed us this badly of course, but that was part of it. We are managed by idiots, and idiots with an agenda, so not only did it cut us down just as we were getting ready to run through the long homestand and come out of it a confident playoff contender, but it opened the door to the slimy backstabbing morons behind the scenes to do their thing. It destroyed our turnaround season, and now the idiots in charge have been so egregious it is threatening far beyond just this season.
No disagreement from me on any of that. Firing Malone didn't ruin the Kings fledgling playoff chances - DeMarcus getting sick did.
Which made the firing of Malone a double whammy for Cousins. He had to feel like he let his team down by missing games but he also outright said that he felt guilty for Malone's firing.
The reason I refuse to let this go is that I want management to know that they are responsible for torpedoing this season. I don't blame Cousins. I don't blame Corbin. I certainly don't blame Malone. I blame whoever made the decision to fire a coach when from all indications he had the team headed in the right direction.
Swaze
Bench
Agreed. At this point we all know this season is essentially a lost cause so the only thing this season can accomplish is just not doing anymore damage. Just gotta hope that DeMarcus doesn't explode and demand a trade. Hopefully we continue to see growth from Ben McLemore and if we're lucky maybe Stauskas will get some time to shine a little and improve his game late in the season.
This summer is the real key. We all know the front office made a huge mistake, the question is do they really feel that way? Even though they won't admit any fault publicly I'm sure behind close doors they would at least admit the timing and how they handled it was poor. However that still doesn't fix the overall problem with their meddling and basketball philosophies. The question is will they admit they were wrong with that too because that's really the bigger issue.
The only real chance this team has going forward is that Vivek and the front office come to realize they were completely wrong. Not just in timing and how they handled it but their whole belief system. That's a lot to ask of people with massive ego's that are not often wrong throughout their lives.
Sad to say that the most plausible scenario is they still go into next season talking about pace with just a different coach. In some regards it's probably best that Ty Corbin does everything that they want to a tee and fails miserably as that might be the only way to get them to see they are wrong.
IfAt1st
Starter
Yeah, remember us "freaking out" and telling everyone how much there was to worry when Demarcus went down with the Plague? (meningitis, whatever)
Remember how everyone was all "Oh, don't be such worry-warts, things aren't that much at risk. Be calm, be patient - enjoy seeing how this plays out."
Yeah......
(BTW - here was the thread in question: http://www.kingsfans.com/threads/demarcus-admitted-to-hospital.58509/page-5#post-1125028 )
Glenn
Hall of Famer
As kind of an offshoot of your note, there was a powerful message learned in the brief period Malone coached at the beginning of the season. I will admit that the sample size was small but the teams we played were tough. We had the most difficult schedule in the NBA in November. At the least, it is a fairly decent guess that Malone was doing something right.
Now what was he doing? He didn't seem terribly competent as an offensive coach. He seemed very competent as a defensive coach and a guy who had a good relationship with the key players. An observant owner, GM, or walk around red headed buddy could have concluded from Malone's period that defense is extremely important in NBA basketball and perhaps more important than offense. I sure learned that lesson.
I do not have the mentality of VF21 who can usually weather awful spans of play (although even with her, it seems to be failing
) but I am still angry. We assume the FO can learn although I am not so sure that there is any evidence to that effect. Large amounts of brains do not guarantee large amounts of judgment. This is what scares me. Anyway, it seems the safest pick as a new coach should have people skills and an ability to teach defense.My HUGE fear is related to the wish of many fans to either pull off a trade or get a third coach for this year. It is not that these are bad ideas, it's that the same people who fired Malone demonstrating a tremendous lack of basketball knowledge are the same people who will be hiring the next coach.
There is a solution. First, Vivek has to swallow his pride and there is no guarantee that he has that capability. He needs to hire a GM with a tremendous amount of basketball knowledge like a Riley or Jackson. This GM would have the respect of the rest of the NBA and this might calm Vivek so he feels no need to meddle. He cannot go cheap on this hire. Then Vivek needs to step aside and let this highly experienced GM do his thing without any meddling. This is supposedly not a novel action for Vivek. He has said over and over that he has been successful by hiring people smarter than he is. THEN DO IT !!!!!!!! Be a Vivek Ranadive and hire that man/woman who is smarter than you are.
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rainmaker
Hall of Famer
That's an unfortunate part of the losing culture which has engulfed this franchise for years. Poor decisions are followed up by some wanting to hope and have faith that it'll work out, that all we need is time, patience will cure the issues at hand, yet time and time again those poor decisions waste one season after another and we're talking draft picks by the All Star break.
We've had 8 good seasons in 30 years, 9 if you count Mitch leading us to a first round ass-kicking against Sea. The patience angle flat out hasn't worked out. We had a great run under Rick/Petrie/Maloofs. That's about it.
And just as hope and patience has ended with us failing time and time again while red flags are ignored, we've got another huge red flag here which is our FO and owner giving Rudy and Cuz as many reasons as they can drum up to ask out of this mess. We don't have time for all this patience. Fans of a losing franchise naturally will have more patience than players who's careers are much more short-lived. Might not make much of a difference to some fans to wait until 2016 as your time as a fan can stretch or has stretched decades, but telling Cousins to just wait until he's 26 to expect success is an entirely different situation. That's approaching half his career being wasted.
There's not one good reason to be patient right now. If I took a bat to your knee and told you to be patient while it heals, what would your response be? Patience applies when collectively everyone is moving in the right direction, as we were only two months ago and we're building on a foundation with a clear vision/plan. It does not apply when following sabotage.
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