Following 2018 draftees
- Thread starter Ozymandias
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Honestly, watching these playoffs has raised my opinion of WCS's value as our center. In the regular season, yes he will probably always be a guy who annoys us fans with lack of effort....BUT he does get ip for big games so id assume in the playoffs he would go 100%. WCS at 100% in a playoff context IS a playable and valuable center because of his swithability on defense and his ability to attak the rim and with a respectable jumper on offense. Portland for instance would have done better with WVS at center with the way NO was playing Lillard and McCollum. WCS would have been able to have a field day if he played in that series as portlands center.
For starters, the coaching staff seems to put him in a position where he is the high post passer. I'd like to hope that was a one year experimentation and two, they give him no choice but to take a role where he helps the team win and that's to use his athletic ability and length and not drive the ball to the rim and throw up trash. If he doesn't want to comply, you sit him, no use for pampering.
I just think it's ridiculous that DiVicenzo is thought to be a 2nd round pick this year with an almost guarantee to be a lottery pick next year. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. If that is the case then GMs really have no idea what the heck they are doing because they are placing an arbitrary 2nd round status to a guy who next year is a lottery pick. If that absurdity is the case, then a good GM doesn't play that game. They just take DiVencenzo in the lottery - the upper part of the lottery.
As for Spellman, I can't for the life of me see how Bamba of all people can be ahead of Spellman. Nor Bridges for that matter. Nor Sexton. Again, Spellman, like DiVenzo either has talent now or he doesn't. He doesn't have more talent next year, just like DiVienzo doesn't have more talent next year. ALL these guys have considerably more time to fully develop their talent. The question is: Do they have talent for the NBA or not? My answer is an unequivocal, YES! And I would take them at 7th or higher in this draft.
As for Spellman, I can't for the life of me see how Bamba of all people can be ahead of Spellman. Nor Bridges for that matter. Nor Sexton. Again, Spellman, like DiVenzo either has talent now or he doesn't. He doesn't have more talent next year, just like DiVienzo doesn't have more talent next year. ALL these guys have considerably more time to fully develop their talent. The question is: Do they have talent for the NBA or not? My answer is an unequivocal, YES! And I would take them at 7th or higher in this draft.
OK, first off I can't avoid pointing out that you spelled DiVincenzo four different ways, all incorrectly, here. That's gotta be a record! (I put in a smiley but when I post from my phone I guess those don't show up...)
But seriously, with your strong support of both Spellman and DiVincenzo in this draft (both top 7 you say) I'd be really interested in seeing your top 10-15.
But seriously, with your strong support of both Spellman and DiVincenzo in this draft (both top 7 you say) I'd be really interested in seeing your top 10-15.
I don't have a top 10-15. I like Bagley at #1, Ayton at #2, and then the following three DiVincenzo, Spellman, and J. Jackson, in no particular order for a top 5. I haven't seen Donic, don't know him, haven't seen Porter except for one game back from prolonged injury, don't know him, don't like any of the Bridges over the river Mediocrity, don't like Bamba, don't like Knox, don't like Carter, don't particularly like Sexton, though he probably talented enough to be fairly good eventually, and am an ambivalent agnostic waffler on Young. Because of my agnosticism on Young, if I had a gun to my head I'd probably put him 6th on my "known" list. So I would then have a top 6, with 2 after that in the unknown category, and a bunch of bottom feeders after that. And if D i v i n c e n z o and Spellman (no relation) don't come out, that leaves a paltry 4 in my top tier and 2 unknowns after that, with rest some poor porridge.
Going to revive Chandler Hutchinson talks because I think he's a darkhorse lottery pick.
22yearold 6'7 200lb SF with a 7'1 wingspan.
He's a good slasher which I think could be a big indicator in scoring success. He does a good job at getting to the rim and finishing. Even when he can't, he draws plenty of contact as he averages 7FTA/game. He's also a very solid shooter. He has a good stroke. He's a score-first player, but he does look to make the extra pass. I think his ball handling is above average for a SF, but it also becomes his biggest weakness. He can get TO prone by losing his handles or driving inside a crowd. He has to tighten it a bit more.
I think he has very good upside.
22yearold 6'7 200lb SF with a 7'1 wingspan.
- 31mins: 20pts 7.7rebs 3.5asts 3.4tos 1.5stls
- 47.5/35.9/72.8
He's a good slasher which I think could be a big indicator in scoring success. He does a good job at getting to the rim and finishing. Even when he can't, he draws plenty of contact as he averages 7FTA/game. He's also a very solid shooter. He has a good stroke. He's a score-first player, but he does look to make the extra pass. I think his ball handling is above average for a SF, but it also becomes his biggest weakness. He can get TO prone by losing his handles or driving inside a crowd. He has to tighten it a bit more.
I think he has very good upside.
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Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe he's playing the way he's being asked to play. Do you think Willie has carte blanche to just do what he wants on the floor. Joerger ran a high post offense with the Grizz, so he's likely trying it out with Willie. To be fair, Willie got better out there as the season went on. His reads improved and so did his passing out of the high post. My problem with him was, that many times he was wide freaking open, and instead of taking the open shot, he continued to look for the pass.
Yeah, he's one of my dark horse favorites. One of those players that shot up 4 or 5 inches overnight, and had an adjustment period as a result. Some scouts question his ability to defend in the NBA, but I think his lateral quickness is good enough. When I last checked he was shooting around 36% from the three. He shot around 38% the year before. So, not bad, but not the growth I was looking for. He's turned himself into a good passer averaging over 3 assists a game. He'll probably go somewhere in the bottom of the first round, but if he's sitting there in the 2nd round, I think you have to consider him.
This year, like last year, appears to have a lot of solid contributor to potential starter level talent spilling into the 2nd rd.
I was beside myself last year that the warriors were able to buy that 2nd rounder for Bell. If someone is selling their pick Kings need to be the highest bidder as they should have got Bell last year. If DiVincino is there BUY a pick pls Vivek. Better money spent than on a FA like Hill
I was beside myself last year that the warriors were able to buy that 2nd rounder for Bell. If someone is selling their pick Kings need to be the highest bidder as they should have got Bell last year. If DiVincino is there BUY a pick pls Vivek. Better money spent than on a FA like Hill
Yeah it wouldn't surprise me if he got the same Taurean Prince lotto push in 2016(not the same type of players, but have some similarties in size, shooting, passing, and rebounding). 2016 was a weaker draft, but all-around wings are very valuable in the NBA right now.
Hutchinson's offensive skillset does mirror Paul George in a lot of ways. George's jumpshot has always been an interesting topic. He came into the NBA with one of the oddest jumpers. His shooting numbers in college was pretty odd on it's own.
Freshman year: 44.7% 3pter------69.7% FT
Sophomore year: 35.3% 3pter---90.9% FT
I'd like to see what scouts say about him leading up to the draft. I think he does get plagued by going to a smaller school...especially one in the MW. Not sure if you saw his NIT game vs. UW, but he impressed me a ton. He started off the game struggling with his shot, but he actively tried to give teammates good looks. When they struggled to make their shot, he took the game into his own hands. 39pts 14rebs 2asts 8tos 4stls. I do think Matisse Thybulle was a good test on him during the times they were matched up.
Hutchinson's offensive skillset does mirror Paul George in a lot of ways. George's jumpshot has always been an interesting topic. He came into the NBA with one of the oddest jumpers. His shooting numbers in college was pretty odd on it's own.
Freshman year: 44.7% 3pter------69.7% FT
Sophomore year: 35.3% 3pter---90.9% FT
I'd like to see what scouts say about him leading up to the draft. I think he does get plagued by going to a smaller school...especially one in the MW. Not sure if you saw his NIT game vs. UW, but he impressed me a ton. He started off the game struggling with his shot, but he actively tried to give teammates good looks. When they struggled to make their shot, he took the game into his own hands. 39pts 14rebs 2asts 8tos 4stls. I do think Matisse Thybulle was a good test on him during the times they were matched up.
This is another big reason I love Wendell Carter for us. I think he's an amazing scheme fit with what Joerger likes to do. He's an awesome passer and he'd actually be able to handle the high-post offense and would allow us to hopefully move WCS to a more appropriate role (in the Clint Capela/Tyson Chandler vein).
I really really hope we move away from Joerger's dinosaur offense. Fox is our "franchise player" and there's no reason to put an offense that doesn't fit him. You need up-tempo, space and pace. PnR and floor spacing. Not high-low post action. Force Fox to stand in the corner while Willie initiates the offense.
I'm really interested in seeing what Joerger does next year. After the Cousins trade last year he abandonded the two big system and they went with a 4-out lineup with Lawson/Collison at PG and Tolliver or Skal at the 4. Once they drafted Fox, I hoped that would be what we would see going forward.
I really hope he is going back to that in the future. And that the system in 2017-2018 was because it is better at developing the passing, reacting, reading etc of young players. I still remember this, he said something like "we could go middle pick and roll every time, but we wouldnt be better off a few years from now". So maybe he will indeed go back to it.
I really hope he is going back to that in the future. And that the system in 2017-2018 was because it is better at developing the passing, reacting, reading etc of young players. I still remember this, he said something like "we could go middle pick and roll every time, but we wouldnt be better off a few years from now". So maybe he will indeed go back to it.
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So why not put make your big one that can actually "space" and shoot and create as the initator from the high post? Run some High Post action with Carter at the 5 and put 4 spacers around him and Fox. Gives us so much versatility; run the PnR or PnP with Carter and Fox, Opens the paint right up for Fox/Bogdan drives.
Look, I've been preaching the importance of floor spacing and small ball on this forum when everyone thought DeMarcus Cousins "bully ball" was the way we should win games. I understand what's needed to win in the new NBA. That's a big reason I'm such a believer in Carter's game. I think he's absolutely the ideal big man for what the position is going to be moving forward. He has great length, great size, has the athleticism and lateral quickness to play the 4 and the 5, can shoot, is a High IQ player, can initiate as a passer, get to the free throw line at an elite level, is an impact defender and rebounder on both ends. Wouldn't surprise me either if his offensive scoring game goes to another level either if he gets a chance to be a feature option.
Look, I've been preaching the importance of floor spacing and small ball on this forum when everyone thought DeMarcus Cousins "bully ball" was the way we should win games. I understand what's needed to win in the new NBA. That's a big reason I'm such a believer in Carter's game. I think he's absolutely the ideal big man for what the position is going to be moving forward. He has great length, great size, has the athleticism and lateral quickness to play the 4 and the 5, can shoot, is a High IQ player, can initiate as a passer, get to the free throw line at an elite level, is an impact defender and rebounder on both ends. Wouldn't surprise me either if his offensive scoring game goes to another level either if he gets a chance to be a feature option.
Look, if we walk away with Carter, I won't be upset. I like him, and think he'll be a very good player. Maybe even better than I thought. But what I don't get, is why duplicate at a position when there are a couple of players that I think are just as talented at a position of need. I don't understand the logic. We have a gaping hole at SF, and we don't have a gaping hole at center or PF. Now if I thought Carter was all star material, then I would be on board. But I don't see that, just like at the moment I don't see that with Mikal Bridges either. But I think both players could make an impact on the team which would add up to more win's.
I won't comment on Porter until we know what the status of his back is. But in his case, if healthy, I do see all star material. I would rather wait and see how Willie plays this coming season. It's a contract year for him, and big's usually have their break out year in their third and fourth seasons. I'm not going to list a hundred examples, but trust me, if you go look them up you'll see what I'm talking about. Plus, we have Giles sitting in the wings along with Skal. And then there's Koufos, who I assume will pick up his option. Who gets the minutes and how are they distributed?
Anyway, I don't want this to be misconstrued as my not liking Carter. I like him a lot, and think that if Bagley hadn't been on the team, he would have had more time in the spotlight. And, I could be wrong. He might end up being the best player out of the draft. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. Personally, if my choice is between Carter and Mikal Bridges, I'm taking Bridges. I think you have different, but equal value there and one of them fills a position of need.
I won't comment on Porter until we know what the status of his back is. But in his case, if healthy, I do see all star material. I would rather wait and see how Willie plays this coming season. It's a contract year for him, and big's usually have their break out year in their third and fourth seasons. I'm not going to list a hundred examples, but trust me, if you go look them up you'll see what I'm talking about. Plus, we have Giles sitting in the wings along with Skal. And then there's Koufos, who I assume will pick up his option. Who gets the minutes and how are they distributed?
Anyway, I don't want this to be misconstrued as my not liking Carter. I like him a lot, and think that if Bagley hadn't been on the team, he would have had more time in the spotlight. And, I could be wrong. He might end up being the best player out of the draft. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened. Personally, if my choice is between Carter and Mikal Bridges, I'm taking Bridges. I think you have different, but equal value there and one of them fills a position of need.
Exactly, we sont need another center unless its Bamba or Jackson and management thinks he will be an elite player a clear class above what we have now. Carter just isnt likly going to impact the game more, or even as much, than what we have now in WCS and Giles.
I will take either Bridges or Porter 10/10 over Carter and even Knox. Then before Carter I would take another gaurd. Carter is too slow footed and only 6'9. He can be useful with his 3pt shot, but we are not talking all star player here. A good started is probably his ceiling, then he will be killed in playoff pick in role and switching in any playoff game.
I will take either Bridges or Porter 10/10 over Carter and even Knox. Then before Carter I would take another gaurd. Carter is too slow footed and only 6'9. He can be useful with his 3pt shot, but we are not talking all star player here. A good started is probably his ceiling, then he will be killed in playoff pick in role and switching in any playoff game.
I don't think Carter has the lateral quickness to play the 4 though. I see him as strictly a 5 at the next level. I question his footspeed. There's a reason why Duke went zone this year, everyone had their share of blame. He's mobile for a 5, but at PF, you'd be asking too much out of him. Teams would expose him on switches.
I'm ok with running some high-post action with Carter at the 5, but I'm just not ok with the traditional set Joerger likes to run. We saw it more with Randolph/WCS on offense. In general, I believe that the entire offense should be ran through your PG, not your big man. This idea has been formulated after watching nearly 8 years of Cousins and seeing all the PGs dominate in the NBA.
Carter should opperate behind the 3pt line, similar to Draymond. Guys like WCS and Giles would clog the paint for Bogdan and Fox.
I'm ok with running some high-post action with Carter at the 5, but I'm just not ok with the traditional set Joerger likes to run. We saw it more with Randolph/WCS on offense. In general, I believe that the entire offense should be ran through your PG, not your big man. This idea has been formulated after watching nearly 8 years of Cousins and seeing all the PGs dominate in the NBA.
Carter should opperate behind the 3pt line, similar to Draymond. Guys like WCS and Giles would clog the paint for Bogdan and Fox.
For those interested, here's another interesting article about Mikal Bridges and how he got to where he is.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ut-star-mikal-bridges-the-kawhi-leonard-clone
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ut-star-mikal-bridges-the-kawhi-leonard-clone
So what should the Kings do if they're on the clock at 7 and the guys that are still available are Trae Young, Carter, Mikal and Miles? Is there a consesus best player of this group?
In a vacuum, I have Young/Carter a slight bit ahead but the gap is not large and the kings are so starving for wings and loaded with guards and bigs that you can make a case for Mikal and Miles.
Or maybe Vlade wants to trade down again? Maybe, if he really rates all of them equally on their draft board. I could see Philly being interested in trading up from 10 to 7. They could have their eyes on Young/Mikal. Perfect fits, but probably won't last to 10. Miles and Carter however dont make that much sense for them. So there is definitely a motivation for them to do so.
Kings could then take whoever falls to 10 and get 26+38 from Philly. My guess then would be that Philly takes Young or Mikal at 7, Cavs take whoever Philly doesnt take and then Ny decides between Miles and Carter at 9. So the Kings would be guaranteed one of Miles or Carter at 10.
Maybe you could then package the extra picks from Philly with your own pick 36 to move up a bit from 26, looking for Jontay Porter, Troy Brown, Musa or take a swing at Anfernee Simons.
In a vacuum, I have Young/Carter a slight bit ahead but the gap is not large and the kings are so starving for wings and loaded with guards and bigs that you can make a case for Mikal and Miles.
Or maybe Vlade wants to trade down again? Maybe, if he really rates all of them equally on their draft board. I could see Philly being interested in trading up from 10 to 7. They could have their eyes on Young/Mikal. Perfect fits, but probably won't last to 10. Miles and Carter however dont make that much sense for them. So there is definitely a motivation for them to do so.
Kings could then take whoever falls to 10 and get 26+38 from Philly. My guess then would be that Philly takes Young or Mikal at 7, Cavs take whoever Philly doesnt take and then Ny decides between Miles and Carter at 9. So the Kings would be guaranteed one of Miles or Carter at 10.
Maybe you could then package the extra picks from Philly with your own pick 36 to move up a bit from 26, looking for Jontay Porter, Troy Brown, Musa or take a swing at Anfernee Simons.
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