Fixing our backcourt defense

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I go to trade machine and figure up some things that work. Only problem is the other team doing it. There are many defensive upgrades at both positions. It's not hard considering ours are close to the worst.

PG
Rondo
Jack
Lowry
Lin
Heinrich
Brandon knight

SG
Jimmy butler
Shumpert
Lance Stephenson
Avery Bradley
Jodie Meeks
Courtney lee


And Terrance Williams still out there to be had lol
 
Well, if given a choice, my first choice would be Lowery, followed closely by Heinrich. I'm not a huge fan of Rondo's, and I doubt he's available anyway. For Shooting guard I'd like Shumpert first and Avery Bradley second. I've always thought of Butler as a SF, however, I'll take him in a heartbeat.
 
I go to trade machine and figure up some things that work. Only problem is the other team doing it. There are many defensive upgrades at both positions. It's not hard considering ours are close to the worst.

Let me know when you figure out a way to solve that part of the problem. ;)
 
I don't believe hinrich has anything left, jack has disparaged Sacramento, I doubt We would want to deal with Lins contract and I've state my opinion too many times on rondo. The intriguing name for me is Lowry. The raptors have actively put him on the block to help with their tank but I don't see the spare quality pieces we have to make any trades work now
 
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I don't believe hinrich has anything left, jack has disparaged Sacramento, I doubt We would want to deal with Lins contract and I've state my opinion too many times on rondo. The intriguing name for me is Lowry. The raptors have actively put him on the block to help with their tank but I don't see the spare quality pieces we have to make any trades work now

So did Chris Webber.
 
I don't believe hinrich has anything left, jack has disparaged Sacramento, I doubt We would want to deal with Lins contract and I've state my opinion too many times on rondo. The intriguing name for me is Lowry. The raptors have actively put him on the block to help with their tank but I don't see the spare quality pieces we have to make any trades work now
Only problem with Lowry is if we were interested at all we would have made that during the gay trade
 
For somebody take Thornton we are going to have to take back a longer contract. So we better make damn certain we really want them. Why jack is the most possible. Toronto don't want to take Thornton for 27 years when Lowry is in his last.
 
Fixing guard defense with current players is tough.
The PG issues:
You have a PG who most PG's in the league can shot over without much trouble.
That same PG can rarely stay between opponent PG's and basket on defense.
But that same PG is usually major scoring option who still dribbles too much.
Backup PG Jimmer is a better defender now but suffers, as bajaden keeps reminding me, from being too nice on offense and not taking open shots. But Jimmer is 6" taller and a better defender staying in front of his man.
Then there is the PG rook who rarely gets more than a minute or two, so far who was surprised at the speed of the NBA game. An unknown at this point.

The SG issues:
The Rook is still in early stages of learning the NBA and pushing too hard shooting kinda forcing the slump he is in and just beginning to use his skills in defending. A long way to go but worth the wait. But he is 6-5 and definitely the SG of the future.
MT is an aggressive defender and probably best guard rebounder, but...
MT is in a season long scoring slump not contributing on offense and is the only SG backup at this point.

Fixing backcourt defense will take time, a lot of time. Trading for a vet or semi-vet defending PG will a lot of time to integrate into the new team-coach-culture-game plan. Maybe the better solution (but more losses for awhile) approach is to give Jimmer more minutes at backup PG then start him with IT off the bench in his ideal role. The only way for MLM to get his natural skills up to the NBA level and become a productive defender is to give hime playing time as now and find a good defending SG backup who can knock down 3's. Thats all! :p
 
Well, if given a choice, my first choice would be Lowery, followed closely by Heinrich. I'm not a huge fan of Rondo's, and I doubt he's available anyway. For Shooting guard I'd like Shumpert first and Avery Bradley second. I've always thought of Butler as a SF, however, I'll take him in a heartbeat.
Go a step down in priceyness from all 11 of your suggestions, get one at either position and step down again for the other, that is, two steps down for the second. These would not be long term answers but guys that can play a role well right now on the cheap.
 
Only problem with Lowry is if we were interested at all we would have made that during the gay trade

Not true. Maybe they did discuss it, but could not come to an agreement. Maybe Toronto wanted too much and as time goes on they may realize his value isn't as high as they thought.
 
Not true. Maybe they did discuss it, but could not come to an agreement. Maybe Toronto wanted too much and as time goes on they may realize his value isn't as high as they thought.
well I am all for it. he brings just as much offense as IT and better defense. higher price of course. but IT will demand a bump next year anyway. Id rather have the better defender myself. 1 piece at a time. he could be a piece.
 
Lowry doesn't bring just as much offense as IT. Not only does he not score as much but he is way less efficient when he does. He gets about 1 more assist per game with better rebounding and defense. I guess the question is how many points does Lowry save you on the defensive end?

If IT is going to score 19ppg on 46% shooting, while Lowry gives you 14ppg on 41% shooting, is he going to be able to make up the 5ppg and 5% shooting deficiency with better defense?
 
Bradleys shooting has gotten alot more consistent as well. Avery Bradley and Eric Bledsoe should be high on the front office players to pay list.
 

Is there any reason to think he's available? If the C's are shopping Rondo at all, it is on the assumption that Bradley is the heir apparent.

Even if Bradley is available, I don't know that it's a step upwards in talent. Bradley has improved his shooting this year, but his playmaking and scoring aren't in the same ballpark as IT. I would say that IT and Bradley are mirror images of each other. Bradley is a good to great defensive player and a marginal offensive player while IT is a good to great offensive player and a marginal defensive player. It's a sideways move at best, although Bradley might be a better fit in the starting five next to Cousins and Gay. You still have to deal with McLemore's defensive issues and lack of playmaking and our lack of a true defensive anchor down low.
 
Is there any reason to think he's available? If the C's are shopping Rondo at all, it is on the assumption that Bradley is the heir apparent.

Even if Bradley is available, I don't know that it's a step upwards in talent. Bradley has improved his shooting this year, but his playmaking and scoring aren't in the same ballpark as IT. I would say that IT and Bradley are mirror images of each other. Bradley is a good to great defensive player and a marginal offensive player while IT is a good to great offensive player and a marginal defensive player. It's a sideways move at best, although Bradley might be a better fit in the starting five next to Cousins and Gay. You still have to deal with McLemore's defensive issues and lack of playmaking and our lack of a true defensive anchor down low.

I think the idea would be to play IT and Bradley together. I mean, now that Bradley is shooting almost .400 from 3 he's entering extremely valuable territory. Could be the single best '3 and d' guy in the entire league right now. He's only 23.

Bradley isn't a point guard. He can't do it. Especially on a team trying to balance Gay and Cousins. He's a 2. If you want him you are likely trading McLemore for him, and well .. that's a conversation at least. How bad do we want to improve our defense?

Boston also has Courtney Lee who has the reputation of a solid defender / shooter type. I'd give him a look if they are just trying to dump his contract.

Lee for Fredette and Outlaw works.
 
Is there any reason to think he's available? If the C's are shopping Rondo at all, it is on the assumption that Bradley is the heir apparent.

Even if Bradley is available, I don't know that it's a step upwards in talent. Bradley has improved his shooting this year, but his playmaking and scoring aren't in the same ballpark as IT. I would say that IT and Bradley are mirror images of each other. Bradley is a good to great defensive player and a marginal offensive player while IT is a good to great offensive player and a marginal defensive player. It's a sideways move at best, although Bradley might be a better fit in the starting five next to Cousins and Gay. You still have to deal with McLemore's defensive issues and lack of playmaking and our lack of a true defensive anchor down low.

Also, apparently Bradley wants something like a 4yr/32 mil deal. Not sure if that's worth it for a pure specialist who hasn't really figured out how to contribute offensively
 
Orlando is looking to move Afflalo. Not sure what we could offer though because they would obviously want young pieces.
 
I think the idea would be to play IT and Bradley together. I mean, now that Bradley is shooting almost .400 from 3 he's entering extremely valuable territory. Could be the single best '3 and d' guy in the entire league right now. He's only 23.

Bradley isn't a point guard. He can't do it. Especially on a team trying to balance Gay and Cousins. He's a 2. If you want him you are likely trading McLemore for him, and well .. that's a conversation at least. How bad do we want to improve our defense?

Boston also has Courtney Lee who has the reputation of a solid defender / shooter type. I'd give him a look if they are just trying to dump his contract.

Lee for Fredette and Outlaw works.

I'd like to believe that Bradley's improvement from deep is legit. Small sample size and all that. If so, then he is taking the same career path as Afflalo who came into the league as a one-dimensional defensive specialist and is now legitimately making a case for an all-star berth in the east. It's also why the C's aren't going to let him go.
 
Lowry doesn't bring just as much offense as IT. Not only does he not score as much but he is way less efficient when he does. He gets about 1 more assist per game with better rebounding and defense. I guess the question is how many points does Lowry save you on the defensive end?

If IT is going to score 19ppg on 46% shooting, while Lowry gives you 14ppg on 41% shooting, is he going to be able to make up the 5ppg and 5% shooting deficiency with better defense?

Perhaps. more importantly its about team building, and while Lowry might not, the other Kings team members who are currently starved of shots might very well.

Thing is though, Lowry and Gay did not work well together in Toronto. Maybe that's just coaching. maybe better structure here, the presence of Cuz, cleans that all up. But its something to consider. Maybe even something we have already considered.

Nice thing about Lowry BTW, is that we might well be able to keep IT as well. They aren't going to trade Lowry just to recreate IT/Vasquez on their end. On the other hand the fact of the matter is with Gay and Cuz both on max contracts last year, there is only room to pay one major PG going forward. At the end of this year IT will be looking to get paid. Like Nate before him he may find that market a little soft, or he may not, hard to tell. IT presents himself a little better. But either way we won't have room to be paying him and Lowry, or him and anyone, $15mil combined or anything. So whoever is going to be our starter, we need to get him and commit to him. Maybe you can commit MLE money to IT as a 6th man behind the starter if the starter isn't too expensive. Otherwise even if you keep IT you're going to lose him anyway over the summer unless he's the one PG you decide to pay.
 
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Orlando is looking to move Afflalo. Not sure what we could offer though because they would obviously want young pieces.

I agree with bajaden on this as Affalo is a really good defender and ball handler.
 
Perhaps. more importantly its about team building, and while Lowry might not, the other Kings team members who are currently starved of shots might very well.

Thing is though, Lowry and Gay did not work well together in Toronto. Maybe that's just coaching. maybe better structure here, the presence of Cuz, cleans that all up. But its something to consider. Maybe even something we have already considered.

Nice thing about Lowry BTW, is that we might well be able to keep IT as well. They aren't going to trade Lowry just to recreate IT/Vasquez on their end. On the other hand the fact of the matter is with Gay and Cuz both on max contracts last year, there is only room to pay one major PG going forward. At the end of this year IT will be looking to get paid. Like Nate before him he may find that market a little soft, or he may not, hard to tell. IT presents himself a little better. But either way we won't have room to be paying him and Lowry, or him and anyone, $15mil combined or anything. So whoever is going to be our starter, we need to get him and commit to him. Maybe you can commit MLE money to IT as a 6th man behind the starter if the starter isn't too expensive. Otherwise even if you keep IT you're going to lose him anyway over the summer unless he's the one PG you decide to pay.

Yeah what to do in the off season is going to be tough. IT will make more than Nate for sure but how much is anyone's guess. He's much more consistent and efficient than Nate but they are fairly similar players. Only difference is teams already knew what Nate was capable of and Isaiah is still a question mark. Is he at his ceiling right now? Is he just having a hot start to the season or is he going to continue to get better? The fact that he's already slightly better than Nate and could be exponentially better will net him more dollars alone. They either have to decide to build around IT or trade him, but you can't have a high dollar sixth man. We could build around him if we found a Doug Christie type player but that's easier said than done. In the end I'm sure the front office will find some way to screw this whole thing up :)
 
Lowry doesn't bring just as much offense as IT. Not only does he not score as much but he is way less efficient when he does. He gets about 1 more assist per game with better rebounding and defense. I guess the question is how many points does Lowry save you on the defensive end?

If IT is going to score 19ppg on 46% shooting, while Lowry gives you 14ppg on 41% shooting, is he going to be able to make up the 5ppg and 5% shooting deficiency with better defense?

Yes!
 
Is there any reason to think he's available? If the C's are shopping Rondo at all, it is on the assumption that Bradley is the heir apparent.

Even if Bradley is available, I don't know that it's a step upwards in talent. Bradley has improved his shooting this year, but his playmaking and scoring aren't in the same ballpark as IT. I would say that IT and Bradley are mirror images of each other. Bradley is a good to great defensive player and a marginal offensive player while IT is a good to great offensive player and a marginal defensive player. It's a sideways move at best, although Bradley might be a better fit in the starting five next to Cousins and Gay. You still have to deal with McLemore's defensive issues and lack of playmaking and our lack of a true defensive anchor down low.

Mirror images of each other. Only in a a fun house do you look in the mirror and go from 6'2", to 5'9". Regardless, I suspect that IT is going to be traded before the deadline. Not because that's what I want, but because he's going to be a freeagent at years end, and I suspect he's going to want a substantial raise, and probably more than what the Kings think he's worth to the team. Therefore it would be better to trade him now and get something in return, than to just watch him walk away.

As for as Bradley goes, I doubt the Celtics are shopping him. Offensively there's not a lot of difference between Bradley and IT. Both are putting up very decent stats. IT is shooting a career high 41.8% from the three, but Bradley is no slouch either at 39.2%. IT's advantage is in assists, while Bradley is the better defender.
 
As mentioned, I would love to have Affalo. Very good defender, and is having a terrific year offensively this year. With Affalo you would be able to move McLemore back to the bench and bring him along more slowly. Hell, maybe Affalo could teach him a thing or two about playing defense. Unfortunately, we have to do something with Thronton. Orlando isn't going to want him. Orlando wants to go with its youth. Who knows, they might be interested in JT, who is still young, and it would give them a good sized PF to put on the floor with Vucevic. All they have now is Glenn Davis, who is generously listed at 6'9". We could throw in Jimmer as an expiring.
 
Oh I can't entirely get behind that one. Offensively IT is Michael Jordan compared to Bradley. Bradley would/should be a defensive roleplayer on a team with more talent.

But aside from chcukleheads like Aaron Bruski, there is not one person on the planet who would even consider IT and Bradley to be playing the same sport when it comes to defense. In normal fashion for all young players, Boston peeps took to wildly overrating Bradley as a rook. Even said they wouldn't trade him for Cousins (were maybe willing to give up Fab Melo though :p). But now that that's passed, he has settled in as one of the really elite young defenders. Has a bit of Randy Brown in him really. Really long, aggressive, tireless hounds people etc.
 
Bradley is not a PG. He's a legit starting 2 guard though IMO. He is shorter than most but he plays elite defense, and he's still averaging 14 ppg on 45% shooting and nearly 40% from 3, not bad at all. I would give up Ben for him. But I doubt Boston would do that.
 
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