Fire Kenny Natt
- Thread starter OptimusRhyme
- Start date
Or maybe, just maybe, they were hoping not to lose by 75+ ...
Yes, the kids need to play more but did you really want to see them play major minutes against the freaking Boston Celtics?
Hawes has been in a horrific slump, Jason Thompson appears to suffer from star-struck syndrome or ADHD when facing top teams, and Donte Greene just seems to totally lose his composure for no discernible reason at times. I was just as glad NOT to see them with major minutes tonight for the simple reason I'd rather see the vets embarrassed.
piksi
Hall of Famer
You can't embarrass people with no pride whatsoever
Gary
All-Star
For once I agree with you. Our vets look like they don't want to play.. So why play them? I know why.... Because Natt is a freaking moron.
Which is actually kind of my point. If they're going to give lackluster performances and act like they don't care, let them be out there to lose to the freaking Celtics.
Let the kids play when there's at least a chance of them being competitive. Let them learn without mimicking the Christians and the lions.
Gary
All-Star
You think Natt will play the youngsters if the game is close? If the game is close you will see Moore in there for 40 minutes, and Hawes and Thompson in there for 5.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Your Absolutely Right
Again, you're looking at it in terms of potential wins/losses. I'm referring more to favorable match-ups. Being competitive doesn't mean winning. It means being able to compete without being so outmatched it's over before it begins...
Packt
Starter
This is just confusing double talk.
Really? I understood exactly what I meant...
Packt
Starter
Good for you.
KingGiant49erFan
G-League
no.. im pretty sure were watching the same team and all agree that they are not good, the way that our situation is being handled is where the problem lies. if we are not a contending team, why is mikki "the scrub" moore being put BACK into the starting lineup over a kid that will be here in the long term? if it was an attempt to get spencer out of a slump then fine, Thompson should be the man to take his spot. yes natt was appointed interim coach in order to take his lumps. the phrase "take your lumps" seems to derive from taking some sort of unenjoyable medicine in order to make improvements to health. well, in this case taking the lumps would mean to play the kids, which would lead to more losing but in turn give the players that will be here in the long term an opportunity to gain experience and grow.
you say that some posters dont understand the rebuilding process? so are you saying that you honestly think that giving mikki moore the kids minutes is the way to go?
Nighthawk1
Starter
Any true competitor will want to get out there and compete with the best. Even if you're outclassed at least you know where you stand, and truly what needs to be worked on. You'll have the tapes to study and the experience of it all to go back on. That's where I stand and hopefully the rookies feel the same way.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I love it when Reynolds talks about how our "young" team needs to learn how to play the right way like Celtics, all when Miller, Miki, Salmons, Beno and Hawes are on the floor. I'll give him some credit though. He caught himself in mid sentence when he said it, and the "young" part tapered off into a murmer. Reynolds can BS, but he's not THAT MUCH of a BSer.
The vets are praying to God to get traded, and their body language shows it. Petrie needs to do a mercy kill - accomodate them, and get some some youngins and picks.
The slow it down game that Natt is playing is killing the spirit of this team. I'd rather have the youngins flying up the court throwing balls in the stands rather than the slow as molasses set up game that's going on now. It's hard to believe that it could be worse than tonight.
Garcia is operating on one leg. They need to sit him for as long as it takes to get it better. He can't be fired up because he's hurting out there. Who is the freaking doctor that said he could play on it and not have it get worse? The team obviously misses the 20+ points of Martin.
Everybody needs to take a long nap until the draft...
The vets are praying to God to get traded, and their body language shows it. Petrie needs to do a mercy kill - accomodate them, and get some some youngins and picks.
The slow it down game that Natt is playing is killing the spirit of this team. I'd rather have the youngins flying up the court throwing balls in the stands rather than the slow as molasses set up game that's going on now. It's hard to believe that it could be worse than tonight.
Garcia is operating on one leg. They need to sit him for as long as it takes to get it better. He can't be fired up because he's hurting out there. Who is the freaking doctor that said he could play on it and not have it get worse? The team obviously misses the 20+ points of Martin.
Everybody needs to take a long nap until the draft...
Entity
Hall of Famer
Is there no way Saunderd would come to us right now? Not even to get a head start on next year?? It could be a REALLY long training camp.
Uncia03
Starter
Exactly.
I would hazard that at least 80% of the people here understand that we need to rebuild and that while we rebuild it's going to be painful.
The frustration/fury/disbelief is in seeing players who have zero future with our team being played the majority of the meaningful minutes while our Future sits on the bench and watches the team get blown out.
The Kids are not being put into a position to win games and they are not being put into a position to lose games.
Period.
Instead they are being put into the game to either give the vets a few minutes rest or when the outcome of the game as already been decided. As a player if you know that you're only in the game to 'tred water' while the Vet rests, or are in the game because the games already been decided that is going to impact your ability to compete and grow.
I would rather our Future be in the games to win it or to lose it. At least that way we can gauge their competitiveness, and watch for opportunities for growth and see how they work together to try to achieve victory on the basketball court.
I know we can't win with the Vets.
I know we can't win with the Kids as they are now.
I want to see the Kids get the playing time to win or lose games and give them the experience they will need 2, 3, 4, 5 years down the line.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I certainly share in the frustration that everyone is feeling, but I doubt that Natt is going to be fired. I think were stuck with him for the remainder of the season. Besides, at this rate, we would run out of assistant coaches to fire before the season ended.
The best looking unit on the floor tonight, and I'll admit we were 40 pts down at the time and against the Celt's second unit, was when we had Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Douby, and Brown on the floor together. They played decent defense and God forbid, they passed the stinking ball. Of course Natt not being able to stand a good thing, had to jerk Hawes and put in Sheldon.
What the hell happened to Mr. defense, John Salmons tonight. Paul Pierce looked like he was 20 years old again out there. Hi there Cisco, I would like to indroduce you to Mr. Ray Allen. He's the one going by you at will and scoring all the points. You might at least try tripping him next time.
The whole starting unit stunk the place out tonight, and we were forced to watch them for an unnecessary period of time. Please don't anyone tell me we were showcasing them. You would think that after watching the Celtic's pass the ball around them till their heads were spinning, at least one of them would think, gee, this passing stuff works pretty good. Naw, I'll just hoist up another three ball with a hand in my face.
To coach Natt! I for one am sick of watching Mikkie Moore do a cheap imitation of a PF. I'm sick of watching Jackson and Salmons and Cisco launching three balls as the mainstay of our offense. I'am sick of watching Miller whine and play matador defense. But most of all, I'm sick of hearing coaches talk about passing the ball and developing a post game and not have it happen. Your the damm coach! Do something about it. Talk is cheap. I want to see action
The best looking unit on the floor tonight, and I'll admit we were 40 pts down at the time and against the Celt's second unit, was when we had Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Douby, and Brown on the floor together. They played decent defense and God forbid, they passed the stinking ball. Of course Natt not being able to stand a good thing, had to jerk Hawes and put in Sheldon.
What the hell happened to Mr. defense, John Salmons tonight. Paul Pierce looked like he was 20 years old again out there. Hi there Cisco, I would like to indroduce you to Mr. Ray Allen. He's the one going by you at will and scoring all the points. You might at least try tripping him next time.
The whole starting unit stunk the place out tonight, and we were forced to watch them for an unnecessary period of time. Please don't anyone tell me we were showcasing them. You would think that after watching the Celtic's pass the ball around them till their heads were spinning, at least one of them would think, gee, this passing stuff works pretty good. Naw, I'll just hoist up another three ball with a hand in my face.
To coach Natt! I for one am sick of watching Mikkie Moore do a cheap imitation of a PF. I'm sick of watching Jackson and Salmons and Cisco launching three balls as the mainstay of our offense. I'am sick of watching Miller whine and play matador defense. But most of all, I'm sick of hearing coaches talk about passing the ball and developing a post game and not have it happen. Your the damm coach! Do something about it. Talk is cheap. I want to see action
No, I don't think Mikki Moore should be garnering more minutes than the kids. I think the game against the Celtics was a fiasco from beginning to end and I'm more interested in seeing what Natt does against the eminently beatable Clippers.
This whole season is frustrating, it's confusing and it's almost without any kind of rational explanation. It is - in a word - chaotic. The only way I've found to survive is to embrace the chaos and hope to eventually find a return to order.
When you're in the middle of a blizzard, it's too late to worry about whether or not you brought in enough firewood. You have to ride out the storm and hope for the best. Well, right now the Kings are in the middle of a really big storm - and I see it as something we just have to ride out to the end. I still have faith that all will end well. That's one of the things about optimists. But mainly, I have that faith because I don't want to even think about the alternative.
We could end up just like Seattle and I really, truly don't want that to happen.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
nbrans
All-Star
Yeah, I was (mis)fortunate enough to watch this one in person, and I continue to be positively mystified by the insistence on the coaches to play Miller and Moore so many minutes. It's not just playing vets at the expense of the young players in the hopes of being a little more competitive. Thompson and Hawes are BETTER than Miller and Moore. Right now. If you'd want to win, then Thompson and Hawes are going to give you a better shot at it. And that's even before you take into account that the Kings are, ya know, supposed to be rebuilding and playing the young players.
Now, maybe they're just trying to keep the locker room together or maybe they are trying to boost Miller/Moore's trade value. But I really don't get it.
Now, maybe they're just trying to keep the locker room together or maybe they are trying to boost Miller/Moore's trade value. But I really don't get it.
GameBall
Bench
Yes I do want them to play major minutes against the Celtics. The Celtics are the Champions and they play like it. They defend, they pass, they rebound, they play as a team. They play the right way, and the young guys can learn from it and know that this is how you play basketball and this is what it takes to win.
Uncia03
Starter
You saw exactly what I saw, and because I'm a complete sucker for punishment, listen to this...
I just finished going back and watching every offensive possession we had with Spencer in it till we hit the 3:12 mark in the 3rd. When first watching the game one of the things which really struck me was that Spencer did not seem to have a single posting opportunity until late in the 3rd quarter.
So I just finished going through the game to see if my recollection was correct.
In all of Spencer's play on the floor prior to the 3:02 mark of the 3rd quarter he did not get the ball once in the post.
In the first half there were a total of 3 times that he sort-of looked to get into a position to post his man, he'd raise his hand for about a second, then drop it and move back to the perimeter.
At the 6:18 mark of the 3rd Spencer had great position in the post, but Beno hit an 18 footer. At the 3:30 mark of the 3rd Spencer posted up Davis, but Beno drove past him and then dumped it off to Moore who missed the 2 footer.
So in all of our offensive possessions there were 5 times he tried to post up. Of those five, really only the last two in the 3rd were times where he held his position for more than just a second before wandering back to the perimeter.
All the rest of the time, what did he do on offense you ask? He just wandered around the court trying to set high picks and back picks. That's it. And that not only is pathetic coaching, it goes completely against what Natt says he wants to do.
It wasn't until we were down by 40 points and Natt had 'conceded' the game that Spencer finally got the ball in the post.
Wow...
I can't believe this.
So this play starts at the 3:02 mark of the 3rd quarter. Spencer is posting up and for the first time in the game actually gets the ball in his hands. He kicks out to Bobby Brown who then immediately swings it to Donte for a wide open corner 3, which misses.
You know what Jerry says? Prepare yourself.
Jerry, "Well that was a good offensive sequence there. Ball moved from one side to the other, kicked it out and had an open look. Donte not able to connect but that looked like the offense that Kenny Natt wants to see more of."
I'm just stunned here.
If Natt wants us to play that way all he has to do is set it up that way. In watching the game it's absolutely clear that Spencer was told not to try to expend energy in trying to obtain good post position. I have no doubt in my mind.
Spencer's play completely changed at around the 3:30 mark of the 3rd. He started to aggressively attempt to get good post position, but prior to that, it's just clear that he was out there to try and set high picks and back screens.
If Natt would just do what he needs to do...play the kids and give them opportunities to grow their strengths things wouldn't be so bad. At this point he is failing utterly and it's pathetic.
Entity
Hall of Famer
I am going with the locker room issue right now. i mean really I challenge somebody to tell me something that Moore/Miller that is head and shoulders over Thompson/Hawes.
Defense
Hawes>Miller
Moore>Thompson
rebounding
Hawes>Miller
Thompson>Moore
Post play
Hawes>Miller
Thompson>Moore
Shot blocking
Hawes>Miller
Thompson=Moore
Speed
Hawes>Miller
Thompson>Moore
Passing/catching
Miller>Hawes
Thompson>Moore
shooting (outside paint)
Hawes=Miller
Thompson=Moore
The only thing that Moore/Miller has that is better is experience and the things you learn that come with it. Now what that tells me is Hawes/Thompson have more talent they just need more experience.
beb0p
Starter
As soon as Reggie was fired, I knew things are going to be worse off. I stand by my initial assertion that the Kings should have given Theus a full season. Oh wait, what's that? Stability for the sake of stability is idiotic? Ok, fine. You got your wish. Reggie is gone, I hope you're happy.
Second, Natt is a lame duck head coach. You know it. I know it. The players know it. What incentive do the players have to listen to Natt? None. In fact, I anticipate the team will completely tune out Natt soon.
As for Natt, this is his big chance to impress somebody. Actually, this could be his only chance to make a case as a head coach. So what do you expect? Gamble his own future on some young kids and rookies, or do you think he's going with the veterans? Who's going to remember how well he developed Spencer Hawes? It's all about Ws and Ls, and you can't blame Natt for trying to accumulate as many Ws as he can, by all means necessary.
And lastly, we can't fire Natt. Not now. Not after we've fired the head coach and the lead assistant. Natt is going to see this season thru, and we'll just have to watch it burns.
Btw, I'm not against playing the vets if the youngsters aren't playing up to par. Hawes deserved to be benched based on his latest performance, and JT is not doing much better. Now is the time to develop good habits and expectations. Giving the kids minutes even when they aren't bringing their 'A' game does more harm than good.
Second, Natt is a lame duck head coach. You know it. I know it. The players know it. What incentive do the players have to listen to Natt? None. In fact, I anticipate the team will completely tune out Natt soon.
As for Natt, this is his big chance to impress somebody. Actually, this could be his only chance to make a case as a head coach. So what do you expect? Gamble his own future on some young kids and rookies, or do you think he's going with the veterans? Who's going to remember how well he developed Spencer Hawes? It's all about Ws and Ls, and you can't blame Natt for trying to accumulate as many Ws as he can, by all means necessary.
And lastly, we can't fire Natt. Not now. Not after we've fired the head coach and the lead assistant. Natt is going to see this season thru, and we'll just have to watch it burns.
Btw, I'm not against playing the vets if the youngsters aren't playing up to par. Hawes deserved to be benched based on his latest performance, and JT is not doing much better. Now is the time to develop good habits and expectations. Giving the kids minutes even when they aren't bringing their 'A' game does more harm than good.
Aenadin
Starter
Natt is just there to fill in the spot before we get a new head coach next year.. if we keep firing them then who knows SAR will be our head coach..
i expect Tom Thibodaeu (or how it was spelled) Brian Shaw and Mario Elie to be recalled for Head coaching...
we need a coach who is REALLY commited to rebuilding not the WIN Now mode...
if natt sees improvement in hawes and JT why not start them to get confidence!?
i expect Tom Thibodaeu (or how it was spelled) Brian Shaw and Mario Elie to be recalled for Head coaching...
we need a coach who is REALLY commited to rebuilding not the WIN Now mode...
if natt sees improvement in hawes and JT why not start them to get confidence!?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Reggie was dying out there and fired himself. Good riddance.
That does not mean what we have instead is any better. I hinted at this a bit with my "tempermental sportscar vs. pickup truck" analogy after the move was made -- I just am not sure that Natt has shown himslef to be a man of ideas or inspiration. You can be old school out of choice and philosophy, or you can be old school just out of lack of imagination, and thus far Natt seems to be coming down very much in that second, unfortunate category. As of right now I would call Reggie a fatally flawed talent (the biggest flaw being his own assessment of himself as a talent), and Natt a plodding non-talent best suited to assistant coach duties.
I will always continue to proviso these things with the "its early yet" sorts of stuff. But really now. The only decision he has made so far that I think is a good one is trying to get Spencer and Jason down into the post. In practice apparently since Natt is a practice assistant coach ratehr than a gametime head coach.
That does not mean what we have instead is any better. I hinted at this a bit with my "tempermental sportscar vs. pickup truck" analogy after the move was made -- I just am not sure that Natt has shown himslef to be a man of ideas or inspiration. You can be old school out of choice and philosophy, or you can be old school just out of lack of imagination, and thus far Natt seems to be coming down very much in that second, unfortunate category. As of right now I would call Reggie a fatally flawed talent (the biggest flaw being his own assessment of himself as a talent), and Natt a plodding non-talent best suited to assistant coach duties.
I will always continue to proviso these things with the "its early yet" sorts of stuff. But really now. The only decision he has made so far that I think is a good one is trying to get Spencer and Jason down into the post. In practice apparently since Natt is a practice assistant coach ratehr than a gametime head coach.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Yes.
When he was hired management said it was as "interim head coach," until season ended. Since they threw in the towel by firing Theus for the helluva it, I assume that means Natt stays even if Kings don't win another game to finish 7-75
Entity
Hall of Famer
Am I wrong in my theory of hiring someone now such as Flip Saunders to get a head start on next season. Build a continuity with the players and insert game play philosophy. I mean isn't that smarter than to wait until next September when camp starts and everybody has to learn something new in a 2 week training camp. Oooooor is it that a coach like that wouldn't come into a situation like this right now.
