Emeka Okafur

[bajaden]

You serious when you say Thompson's most glaring weakness is that he cannot defend? That's actually not true..

I have scouted Thompson for a couple years now, and Defense is not a weakness of his. At least not at the college level. I had to dig a lot to find a local feed now and then to watch Rider and I didn't get to see a ton of his games, but I was able to probably see as much as the "beat writer" for the Kings. Thompson will not disappoint on the defensive end.

Thompson is a decent man on man defender. There are questions as to if Thompson can play phisical enough, but in watching him for a couple years I notice he does fine not being the physical force. Thompson is also good outside the ket against players that shoot a lot of jumpers like Dirk. Thompson is also a decent weak side/help defender. You will see that Thompson will have an adjustment to make playing the more physical game in the NBA, but to say he's a bad defender w/o wathing him play a game in the NBA is laughable. He was a good college defender so I am not sure where people are getting that.

I would bet you every nickel in my bank, that you and I have seen thompson play more games than the writer has. Most, not all, are intellectually lazy. They'll suscribe to Chris Monter, and read all the same mock drafts that we do. But I doubt many spend the time watching as much basketball that I do, especially a school named Rider.

I will admit that I fell asleep on Rider myself, but was able to catch up on a couple of college channels that repeat games. It helps to have 4 satellite dishes on your roof..

One thing also I would like to address. Someone pointed out that Speights and Randoff were more athletic than Thompson. I'm really curious about the genesis of that idea. Thompson is a fine athlete, and so is Speights, but if I were to wager a guess, I would say that Thompson is a little quicker. By the same token, I would say that Randoff is probably a little quicker than Thompson. However, I suspect that if Thompson were to get his weight down to 198 pounds, he might be the quicker of the two. I'm just not sure what it has to do with anything. One of the three, is eventualy going to be the better player. I would put my money on Thompson. Not because we picked him, but because I thought he was the better player before we picked him. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[CruzDude]

Boy oh boy!! TDOS really brings out the frustrations in us KingsFans and opens the imagination to unimaginable trades, movements (both kinds), ideas and opinions. But then in looking at 8-10 other team fan sites it become obvious there are more folks here saying more things and more serious fans than anywhere else in NBA-land. That said........

Okafor is NOT coming to the Kings. Period. He is a 57% FT shooter, and has an assist/TO ratio of 0.45 or more than 2 TO's for every assist. Sure he does get 10+ reb/gm but is only a 13 pt scorer. Doesn't seem a GP type at all. And is not a 3 to replace RonRon.

 

[bajaden]

Boy oh boy!! TDOS really brings out the frustrations in us KingsFans and opens the imagination to unimaginable trades, movements (both kinds), ideas and opinions. But then in looking at 8-10 other team fan sites it become obvious there are more folks here saying more things and more serious fans than anywhere else in NBA-land. That said........

Okafor is NOT coming to the Kings. Period. He is a 57% FT shooter, and has an assist/TO ratio of 0.45 or more than 2 TO's for every assist. Sure he does get 10+ reb/gm but is only a 13 pt scorer. Doesn't seem a GP type at all. And is not a 3 to replace RonRon.

I already tried saying that. It didn't work for me. I wish you better luck..

 

[FakeInjury]

Depth chart. If ron leaves, the 3 spot needs to be shored up. Even if we traded Okafor for Ron 1 for 1. Emeka destroys our depth, because he is a 1 trick pony, and he shares the position of like 40mil of allocated cap(Miller SAR Moore Thompson). Emeka would flourish on the east coast, alone. Out here, he has to deal with Duncan and Tyson and Pau and Oden...The list goes on... Anyways, he is not the player we want. Someone said something about thompsons leaping over people on the depth chart, i agree. If we got emeka, and thompson leaps over emeka DC style, we are stuck with a 10million/year bench player. Assuming he doesn't get injured(IL). big assume.

 

[BMiller52]

Depth chart. If ron leaves, the 3 spot needs to be shored up. Even if we traded Okafor for Ron 1 for 1. Emeka destroys our depth, because he is a 1 trick pony, and he shares the position of like 40mil of allocated cap(Miller SAR Moore Thompson). Emeka would flourish on the east coast, alone. Out here, he has to deal with Duncan and Tyson and Pau and Oden...The list goes on... Anyways, he is not the player we want. Someone said something about thompsons leaping over people on the depth chart, i agree. If we got emeka, and thompson leaps over emeka DC style, we are stuck with a 10million/year bench player. Assuming he doesn't get injured(IL). big assume.

Mek is better at C anyway. And having a PF/C rotation of Thompson/Okafor/Hawes is not bad at all.

 

[beb0p]

Again, did he not provide a stronger shot blocking presence in the post than Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, and SAR? Did he not provide solid rebounding in the time he got?

Once again, the point is in direct response the Sam's quote about the team's needs. He paints a picture that the team is so deseperate for post defense and rebounding that an unproven rookie will automatically get solid minutes in the rotation if he can be an adequet defender and rebounder. My response to the posted article is that if that really was true, then Justin Williams, who provided adequet rebounding and post defense, would have had regular minutes in the rotation...but he didn't. Thus, Sam's point, in my opinion, is wrong.

There's more to defense than blocking shots and solid rebounding. Those are nice, but if those are the only defensive skill a player brings then that's bad. Justin Williams, for all his pluses, is a pretty poor defender. I always thought he could improve and I did root for him, but at the end of the day, Justin is fighting for a job because he's can't shoot and he can't defend.

 

[bajaden]

There's more to defense than blocking shots and solid rebounding. Those are nice, but if those are the only defensive skill a player brings then that's bad. Justin Williams, for all his pluses, is a pretty poor defender. I always thought he could improve and I did root for him, but at the end of the day, Justin is fighting for a job because he's can't shoot and he can't defend.

I agree. I don't know if you saw the summer league game when Justin was trying to guard Hawes. The ref almost ran out of breath blowing the whistle. They switched him to Thompson and same result. Truth is, he's a good weakside helper, but man on man he has problems with someone who has a good post game.

 

[Telemachus]

Again, did he not provide a stronger shot blocking presence in the post than Brad Miller, Mikki Moore, and SAR? Did he not provide solid rebounding in the time he got?

Did Williams not provide better post defense in that regard? A frontline player doesn't have to be a phenomenal 1 on 1 defender to be a good post defender. Look at Camby. He's not that great of a defender (like Duncan for example), but he provides a shot blocking presence.

Once again, the point is in direct response the Sam's quote about the team's needs. He paints a picture that the team is so deseperate for post defense and rebounding that an unproven rookie will automatically get solid minutes in the rotation if he can be an adequet defender and rebounder. My response to the posted article is that if that really was true, then Justin Williams, who provided adequet rebounding and post defense, would have had regular minutes in the rotation...but he didn't. Thus, Sam's point, in my opinion, is wrong.

Williams is a good weak-side shot blocker. That is NOT post defense, that is help defense. When he was posted up, he wasn't strong enough and the offensive player went right over or through him.
Unforetuneately, he is not a very good help defensive player either. He basically goes after every shot he can and tries to block it. That often left his man open and put himself out of position to help or double properly.

You used Camby as an example, as he is one of the better weak-side shot blockers in the league. However, he doesn't allow himself to be bullied on the block either. He is also very good at "changing" shots, which I think is much more important than blocking them.

If you look at the truly great shot blockers over the years, and they also changed a lot of shots as well. You have to be more than just a weak-side or help defender to do that.

 

[PacMan]

Depth chart. If ron leaves, the 3 spot needs to be shored up. Even if we traded Okafor for Ron 1 for 1. Emeka destroys our depth, because he is a 1 trick pony, and he shares the position of like 40mil of allocated cap(Miller SAR Moore Thompson). Emeka would flourish on the east coast, alone. Out here, he has to deal with Duncan and Tyson and Pau and Oden...The list goes on... Anyways, he is not the player we want. Someone said something about thompsons leaping over people on the depth chart, i agree. If we got emeka, and thompson leaps over emeka DC style, we are stuck with a 10million/year bench player. Assuming he doesn't get injured(IL). big assume.

I know we're all in love with Thompson and all but how do you get an unproven rookie to start right over a former Rookie of the year anyways.

 

[Gary]

If you look at the truly great shot blockers over the years, and they also changed a lot of shots as well. You have to be more than just a weak-side or help defender to do that.

Totally agree with this.. Williams didn't actually change as many shots (which is the sign of a good shot blocker) as he got a foul call for hacking. But he was the best shot blocker we had last year until he was cut.

 

[hrdboild]

Depth chart. If ron leaves, the 3 spot needs to be shored up. Even if we traded Okafor for Ron 1 for 1. Emeka destroys our depth, because he is a 1 trick pony, and he shares the position of like 40mil of allocated cap(Miller SAR Moore Thompson). Emeka would flourish on the east coast, alone. Out here, he has to deal with Duncan and Tyson and Pau and Oden...The list goes on... Anyways, he is not the player we want. Someone said something about thompsons leaping over people on the depth chart, i agree. If we got emeka, and thompson leaps over emeka DC style, we are stuck with a 10million/year bench player. Assuming he doesn't get injured(IL). big assume.

But isn't the point of rebuilding to plan for the future? Miller, SAR, and Moore (not to mention Kenny Thomas) are all going to be gone in the future so their impact on the depth chart is irrelevant. We should already be planning the team based on a depth chart without those players. That leaves Hawes and Thompson as our only two front court players. No matter what we'll need to get at least one more frontcourt player, probably two. If you think Hawes and Thompson are both guaranteed starters than we're looking for bench players. I think more likely one of them is a bench player so we're still looking for a starter. Okafor is only 25 and he could play either position and he is a starter so that doesn't mess up the depth chart at all. It's only a problem if Hawes and Thompson both turn into All-Stars and we have to pay Okafor 12 million to come off the bench. I'd say the chances of that happening are slim to none. The SF spot is going to be a position of need shortly with Artest on the way out, but finding your starting frontcourt is a much more pressing need. Besides, even without Ron, Salmons is the starting SF and he's signed for 3 more years.

Okafor is NOT coming to the Kings. Period. He is a 57% FT shooter, and has an assist/TO ratio of 0.45 or more than 2 TO's for every assist. Sure he does get 10+ reb/gm but is only a 13 pt scorer. Doesn't seem a GP type at all. And is not a 3 to replace RonRon.

He averaged 13.8 points last season on 10.5 shots. That ranked him 12th in the league in FG%. The only guys above him who took more shots were Dwight Howard, Amare, KG, and Boozer. For comparison, tops on our team was John Salmons who ranked 48th. He was 6th in the league in rebounding last year. The guys above him? Howard again, Camby, Chandler, Duncan, and Al Jefferson. The year before he was injured so he doesn't qualify for the list, but at 11rpg he would have been 6th that year too. His rookie season he was 4th. Blocks? He was 10th last year and 4th the year before. You know who else is a bad free throw shooter? Dwight Howard, only he attempted more than 3 times as many free throws as Okafor so that hurt his team a lot more. Howard also had an assist/TO ratio of 0.42 with a whopping 263 TO on the season to Okafor's 164. And they both played all 82 games.

Now I don't see anyone making the argument that acquiring Dwight Howard would be a bad idea because he can't pass and is a bad FT shooter. Okafor is not Dwight Howard, but I think you'll have to admit he's more than a one trick pony. He provides everything you want a front line big man to provide (interior scoring, rebounding, and shotblocking) and he does so at an elite level. Now you could say that in spite of all of this, until he develops a pretty looking jumpshot, he's not going to get any attention from Geoff Petrie. But we already had that argument and it's really irrelevant to this discussion anyway. Yes we're all familiar with the type of basketball player that Geoff Petrie tends to covet. This discussion was about whether Emeka Okafor would be a good addition to this team, not whether Petrie would try to acquire him or not. I'd do a double take if that actually happened. But then I would be happy that we actually had a defensive presence in the paint for the first time in forever.

Whoever posted this before hit the nail on the head.

Points per game: 8 out of 30
Team FG%: 10 out of 30
Team rebounds per game: 29 out of 30
Opponent FG%: 23 out of 30

Scoring has not been a problem. Defense continues to be the problem. Name me one available front court defender under 30 better than Okafor who is potentially acquirable.

 

[hrdboild]

One thing also I would like to address. Someone pointed out that Speights and Randoff were more athletic than Thompson. I'm really curious about the genesis of that idea. Thompson is a fine athlete, and so is Speights, but if I were to wager a guess, I would say that Thompson is a little quicker. By the same token, I would say that Randoff is probably a little quicker than Thompson. However, I suspect that if Thompson were to get his weight down to 198 pounds, he might be the quicker of the two. I'm just not sure what it has to do with anything. One of the three, is eventualy going to be the better player. I would put my money on Thompson. Not because we picked him, but because I thought he was the better player before we picked him. We'll just have to wait and see.

I made that comment in response to BMiller52's argument that Petrie drafted Thompson because he was following Reggie's wish to draft someone with size and toughness. My argument was that, even if Thompson has good size and earned DPOY in his conference, looking at the other bigs of comparable talent level available (Speights and Randolph) you could make an argument that both of them are tougher players. Randolph is a better run and jump athlete than Thompson and a lot quicker with the ball in his hands. Speights is probably slower than Thompson but not that much slower and he's a lot stronger and a better rebounder. What distinguishes Thompson over those two guys is not pure athleticism, but skill level. That's why both Randolph and Speights have been ranked above Thompson in terms of potential. If those guys had the skill level that Thompson has now, they'd be top 5 picks. And while Thompson had a good summer league performance, both Speights and Randolph looked better.

 

[Gary]

I made that comment in response to BMiller52's argument that Petrie drafted Thompson because he was following Reggie's wish to draft someone with size and toughness. My argument was that, even if Thompson has good size and earned DPOY in his conference, looking at the other bigs of comparable talent level available (Speights and Randolph) you could make an argument that both of them are tougher players. Randolph is a better run and jump athlete than Thompson and a lot quicker with the ball in his hands. Speights is probably slower than Thompson but not that much slower and he's a lot stronger and a better rebounder. What distinguishes Thompson over those two guys is not pure athleticism, but skill level. That's why both Randolph and Speights have been ranked above Thompson in terms of potential. If those guys had the skill level that Thompson has now, they'd be top 5 picks. And while Thompson had a good summer league performance, both Speights and Randolph looked better.

Totally.. The knock on Thompson is his lack of toughness although he is a good defender. Will it translate into the NBA where they exploit people w/o toughness? Not sure... But it's not like Thompson is a bad defender who lacks toughness. Now that would be BAD

 

[Showtime]

There's more to defense than blocking shots and solid rebounding.

Yes, but shot blocking has more impact on the frontline positions due to the difference in position and impact on the game.

Those are nice, but if those are the only defensive skill a player brings then that's bad. Justin Williams, for all his pluses, is a pretty poor defender. I always thought he could improve and I did root for him, but at the end of the day, Justin is fighting for a job because he's can't shoot and he can't defend.

And this has nothing to do with my point.

Williams is a good weak-side shot blocker. That is NOT post defense, that is help defense.

Uh, help defense by a frontline defender IS PART OF post defense. It's defending the post. Camby has made a career out of it, and gotten the DPOY award for it. Ben Wallace wasn't known for his tremendous on the ball defense, he was known for his shot blocking and help defense around the POST. A center who blocks shots, whether it's from weak side help or not, is defending the post. That's not all there is to post defense, but's a facet of post defense. Don't say it's not.

When he was posted up, he wasn't strong enough and the offensive player went right over or through him.

Unforetuneately, he is not a very good help defensive player either. He basically goes after every shot he can and tries to block it. That often left his man open and put himself out of position to help or double properly.

Yep, but again, with all his shortcomings, wasn't he comparible to his counterparts on the Kings? That's my point. Miller, Moore, and SAR weren't great help defenders. They weren't great individual defenders the last couple seasons either. Often times they got beat by their opposition, and they didn't have the athleticism or effort to contest shots like Justin. So, if an overall poor defender like Justin can be just as effective on defense around the post as Miller, then that shows just how lacking the team was in those areas, and his lack of PT refute's Sam's point.

You used Camby as an example, as he is one of the better weak-side shot blockers in the league. However, he doesn't allow himself to be bullied on the block either. He is also very good at "changing" shots, which I think is much more important than blocking them.

Why does he change shots? Because he contests shots, and his reputation as a shot blocker can impact the decisions of the opposition. That kind of presence isn't something the Kings had in Miller/Moore/SAR, but was something Justin was able to bring to the table at times.

If you look at the truly great shot blockers over the years, and they also changed a lot of shots as well. You have to be more than just a weak-side or help defender to do that.

And when did I ever call Justin a great shot blocker? I said he was an adequate post defender, specifically because of his ability to contest and block shots. I never said he was a great individual defender, or a great shot blocker, or a unable to be pushed around. I said he was adequate, specifically compared to his peers on the team.

 

[Telemachus]

Uh, help defense by a frontline defender IS PART OF post defense. It's defending the post. Camby has made a career out of it, and gotten the DPOY award for it. Ben Wallace wasn't known for his tremendous on the ball defense, he was known for his shot blocking and help defense around the POST. A center who blocks shots, whether it's from weak side help or not, is defending the post. That's not all there is to post defense, but's a facet of post defense. Don't say it's not.

I'll say it's not. When people talk about "post defense", they are talking about how that player defends his man in the post. And that is something that Williams doesn't do well at all. Despite the shots he does block, he is a poor help defender as well. For every shot he blocked, he fouled at least twice. And usually left his man wide open for an offensive rebound and a dunk should the other player miss.
As for Camby and Wallace, I agree that they got most of their blocked shots from helping the weak-side. However, they both play excellent post defense and don't overplay for blocks (leaving their man open). This is why they were able to win DPOY, not because the blocked a few shots.

Yep, but again, with all his shortcomings, wasn't he comparible to his counterparts on the Kings? That's my point. Miller, Moore, and SAR weren't great help defenders. They weren't great individual defenders the last couple seasons either. Often times they got beat by their opposition, and they didn't have the athleticism or effort to contest shots like Justin. So, if an overall poor defender like Justin can be just as effective on defense around the post as Miller, then that shows just how lacking the team was in those areas, and his lack of PT refute's Sam's point.

Once again I disagree. For all of his blocked shots, he was a worse defensive player that Miller, Moore, and SAR.
SAR is the Kings best post defender when healthy. His problem is that he can no longer jump and gets beaten for rebounds.
Miller actually plays good position defense. His problem is a lack of foot speed. He can only help out so much and still get back to his man, which limits him defensively. He at least understands his limits and plays within them.
Moore is a very good help defensive player who brings a lot of energy that others seem to feed off of. His biggest weakness is that the stronger PFs can over-power him on the post, and he isn't always good about keeping them from getting good position (Williams is even worse here).

Why does he change shots? Because he contests shots, and his reputation as a shot blocker can impact the decisions of the opposition. That kind of presence isn't something the Kings had in Miller/Moore/SAR, but was something Justin was able to bring to the table at times.

The problem is that Williams never really changed that many shots. He rarely changed any shots other than the ones he blocked or the ones of the players he fouled. When a player goes after every shot and is out of control like he plays, it also makes him very predictible to the offensive player. That is why he was taken advantage of so often.

 

[NyfdRIP343]

Okafor signed a deal with the bobcats already thats 6 years 76 million i believe. Think i just read that on espn. 12 mil per for emeka?

 

[Warhawk]

Okafor, Bobcats agree to 6-year, $72 million deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3509028

The Charlotte Bobcats have reached a six-year, $72 million deal with restricted free agent Emeka Okafor.

Okafor


General manager Rod Higgins confirmed the deal Tuesday.
The agreement with Okafor by far represents Charlotte's biggest expenditure on one player as the club readies for its fifth season. Okafor turned down a five-year deal with a similar $12 million annual average before last season, preferring to wait for restricted free agency.

more....

 

[beb0p]

And this has nothing to do with my point.

Huh?? You said Justin is "competent" in post defense. I said he's not and provided the reasons.

I addressed your point directly.

 

[hrdboild]

Totally.. The knock on Thompson is his lack of toughness although he is a good defender. Will it translate into the NBA where they exploit people w/o toughness? Not sure... But it's not like Thompson is a bad defender who lacks toughness. Now that would be BAD

I didn't pick the terms, I was just going off of other people's quotes. Forget about 'toughness', 'athleticism', whatever you want to call it. I watched all three play in summer league and I think Randolph is clearly the best of the three, then Speights, then Thompson with Thompson the oldest of the three and also the one who looks like he's the furthest away from dominating NBA competition.

Here's the per game numbers for all three:

Thompson.. 16.2pts 8.6reb .6ast .2stl .6blk
Randolph... 20.8pts 7.8reb 1.3ast 1.0stl 1.0blk
Speights... 18.2pts 10.2reb .2ast .2stl 2.2blk

If you don't believe me, just go to the summer league site and watch the games for Golden State and Philadelphia and make up your own mind.

 

[Showtime]

I'll say it's not. When people talk about "post defense", they are talking about how that player defends his man in the post.

On what planet? Seriously, I know of no other basketball fan who doesn't think help defense and shot blocking from a center is not a facet of post defense. POST defense = defending the post, it doesn't just mean defending the player who the center is matched up against.

 

[beb0p]

I watched all three play in summer league and I think Randolph is clearly the best of the three, then Speights, then Thompson with Thompson the oldest of the three and also the one who looks like he's the furthest away from dominating NBA competition.

I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder. After watching the summer league, I thought Thompson is the best, then Speights, then Randolph. Randolph has the most upside, but also the most downside. Both Speights and Thompson are nothing more than solid starters/role players, but JT is scrappier and has a better motor while Speights is stronger but more prone to stand still on defense.

I like Randolph's potential, but I don't like his game. He is a tweener who needs the ball and a horrible defender. He's tailor made for Don Nelson's system but I think on other teams he'd be force to make major adjustment. With that said, Randolph probably has the highest ceiling out of the three. Speights is solid but there are times when I wonder if he was putting in the effort on defense. Thompson is the all-around player, good at several things, great at nothing. Somehow, I see Speights as the type of players who need to be involved offensively to perform defensively. While JT is more of a blue-collar type who doesn't need a lot of shots to be happy.

 

[NME]

I didn't pick the terms, I was just going off of other people's quotes. Forget about 'toughness', 'athleticism', whatever you want to call it. I watched all three play in summer league and I think Randolph is clearly the best of the three, then Speights, then Thompson with Thompson the oldest of the three and also the one who looks like he's the furthest away from dominating NBA competition.

Here's the per game numbers for all three:

Thompson.. 16.2pts 8.6reb .6ast .2stl .6blk
Randolph... 20.8pts 7.8reb 1.3ast 1.0stl 1.0blk
Speights... 18.2pts 10.2reb .2ast .2stl 2.2blk

If you don't believe me, just go to the summer league site and watch the games for Golden State and Philadelphia and make up your own mind.

I believe that if Thompson had been featured at his natural position as much as those other two, the statistical comparison would be more favorable. Instead, JT spent most of his time at the SF spot guarding out on the wing and playing alongside Spencer and Shelden (who joined JT as three of the SL’s top ten rebounders). He still performed surprisingly well out of position and put up production comparable to the other two rookies.

It’s pretty unanimous in early reports that we're talking about three of the more promising rookies. It’s way too early to start saying that any of them far outclass the others.