Drafting Michael Carter-Williams: Pros and Cons

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Ok so theres a lot of talk about Michael CW. as being a fit for us. LETS ASSUME we keep Evans and he plays at the 2.

Pros:
1. passing --- boy do we need a actual facilitator with court vision that can set up all these other more selfish scorers.
2. Defense-- great athlete, that tested well at the combine. gets a lot of steals.
3. Size-- this team could would be very tall! Williams and Evans in the backcourt.

Cons:
1. 3pt shooting-- Williams lack of range would have HUGE effect on the lineup he plays with....we really need more 3pt range ... if we keep Evans at the 2. that leaves us with only one player on the floor that has the ability to shoot 3's at a high clip. and that player is Salmons /= ok so maybe not even one player can shoot 3's at a high %... Clearly WE ABSOLUTELY NEED A NEW SF!!! THAT IS A 3PT SHOOTING MACHINE especially if we draft Williams. The other option here is Cousins is paired with a PF that can shoot 3's ala Patrick Patterson.... so best case is that we have Patterson, Cousins, mystery 3pt shooting SF, Evans and Willaims. so 2 players in this line up can stretch the floor and shoot 3's. Patterson and the SF.

so obviously this kinda hurts the idea of having a Shot Blocker on the floor with Cousins... something im not to keen on... of course if Evans ever develops a consistent shot then this whole needing a 3pt shooting PF is no longer necessary. But as you can see having a PG without Shooting Range on this team is an issue.

curious to hear what you guys think.
 
I think if the team decided to go with MCW that they'd either be letting Tyreke walk or trying to sign-and-trade him. I think the two of them would be a terrible pairing.

Carter-Williams is like a poor man's Rubio. It's one thing to say he's a poor outside shooter (which he is) but most people seem to gloss over the fact that he's also a poor finisher and has virtually no midrange game either. That said, he'd taller and (I believe) faster that Rubio but he also isn't quite the same level passer and turns the ball over more often while being fairly inconsistent.

Being that he's ball dominant and doesn't spread the floor I think he's a bad match with Evans in the backcourt. MCW shows promise as a defender but like all Syracuse players he'll have a longer learning curve than other rookies in transitioning to playing NBA level defense.

I think he's a player that really needs to be in the right system with the right roster to flourish and I don't think Evans & Cousins are the kind of guys he'd do well with. Athletic, running frontcourt guys and wings that can hit open shots would help his game much more.

In short, I don't like him as a prospect for the Kings but I'll be curious to see how he does in the NBA on another team.
 
funkykingston said:
I think if the team decided to go with MCW that they'd either be letting Tyreke walk or trying to sign-and-trade him. I think the two of them would be a terrible pairing.

Carter-Williams is like a poor man's Rubio. It's one thing to say he's a poor outside shooter (which he is) but most people seem to gloss over the fact that he's also a poor finisher and has virtually no midrange game either. That said, he'd taller and (I believe) faster that Rubio but he also isn't quite the same level passer and turns the ball over more often while being fairly inconsistent.

Being that he's ball dominant and doesn't spread the floor I think he's a bad match with Evans in the backcourt. MCW shows promise as a defender but like all Syracuse players he'll have a longer learning curve than other rookies in transitioning to playing NBA level defense.

I think he's a player that really needs to be in the right system with the right roster to flourish and I don't think Evans & Cousins are the kind of guys he'd do well with. Athletic, running frontcourt guys and wings that can hit open shots would help his game much more.

In short, I don't like him as a prospect for the Kings but I'll be curious to see how he does in the NBA on another team.
Click to expand...

MCW won't be starting. He would be off the bench with MT and Jimmer.
 
Section 101 said:
MCW won't be starting. He would be off the bench with MT and Jimmer.
Click to expand...

If he came off the bench to start the season that's one thing but if the projection is that MCW won't be good enough to beat out Isaiah Thomas as a starting PG then there's zero reason to draft him 7th overall.
 
funkykingston said:
If he came off the bench to start the season that's one thing but if the projection is that MCW won't be good enough to beat out Isaiah Thomas as a starting PG then there's zero reason to draft him 7th overall.
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Not this year, but ya in the future. Your also assuming Evans will still be here.
 
funkykingston said:
If Evans isn't here why would Thornton be coming off the bench?
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That's not the point. You don't base drafting a player on who is here now. That can change at any time. Evans is a RFA, no guarantee he will be here. MT and Jimmer are under contract. Most likely 1 or both will be here next year.
 
a big guard that doesnt shoot very good. why do we need a Tyreke Evans clone? i love Tyreke, but we dont need another player like that we need a true PG and people who can hit 3's
 
HereWeVivek said:
a big guard that doesnt shoot very good. why do we need a Tyreke Evans clone? i love Tyreke, but we dont need another player like that we need a true PG and people who can hit 3's
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MCW is NOT a Tyreke clone. He IS a true PG in terms of being a pass first guard. He also isn't on the same planet as Tyreke in terms of attacking the basket and finishing.
 
funkykingston said:
I think if the team decided to go with MCW that they'd either be letting Tyreke walk or trying to sign-and-trade him. I think the two of them would be a terrible pairing.

Carter-Williams is like a poor man's Rubio. It's one thing to say he's a poor outside shooter (which he is) but most people seem to gloss over the fact that he's also a poor finisher and has virtually no midrange game either. That said, he'd taller and (I believe) faster that Rubio but he also isn't quite the same level passer and turns the ball over more often while being fairly inconsistent.

Being that he's ball dominant and doesn't spread the floor I think he's a bad match with Evans in the backcourt. MCW shows promise as a defender but like all Syracuse players he'll have a longer learning curve than other rookies in transitioning to playing NBA level defense.

I think he's a player that really needs to be in the right system with the right roster to flourish and I don't think Evans & Cousins are the kind of guys he'd do well with. Athletic, running frontcourt guys and wings that can hit open shots would help his game much more.

In short, I don't like him as a prospect for the Kings but I'll be curious to see how he does in the NBA on another team.
Click to expand...

You definitely have my respect as a poster. Well thought out and explained posts and your analysis is usually spot on.
 
funkykingston said:
MCW is NOT a Tyreke clone. He IS a true PG in terms of being a pass first guard. He also isn't on the same planet as Tyreke in terms of attacking the basket and finishing.
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He's not a PG. They ran PG by committee with Triche. And he's pass-first because he can't score. Ford is all rah-rah about his improved shooting, but making only 55% of uncontested jumpers is bad. Mid-range is better, but I'm sure cut-off for good shooters is more than for 3s and may actually be around 80%. Biggest problem I don't really remember him shooting any mid-range.
 
Darth Divac said:
Pros:

-Passing

-Defense

-Athleticism

Cons:

-Highly limited offensive game

-Poor handle

-Somewhat of a ballhog
Click to expand...

Where do I begin? Williams has very good handles, so I have no idea what you were watching. As for defense, who the hell knows? He plays for Syracuse, a team that plays a zone 100% of the time. In brief moments of isolation, it appears that he's capable of keeping his man in front of him. But with a zone, its extremely hard to tell anything about the overall capability of a player on defense. Saying he has a highly limited offensive game is being very kind. He's a horrible 3 pt shooter, and only shot 36% overall from the floor. Which means he has trouble scoring from anywhere on the floor.

I really like Williams potential as a PG, and by the way, I don't think he's a ballhog. But to pair him with Tyreke would cause the Kings a lot of trouble on the offensive side of the ball. All the teams would collapse to the middle and make either Williams or Tyreke hit the perimeter shot. Considering that we don't have much of an offensive threat at the SF position either, it could be a disastor.
 
Gilles said:
He's not a PG. They ran PG by committee with Triche. And he's pass-first because he can't score. Ford is all rah-rah about his improved shooting, but making only 55% of uncontested jumpers is bad. Mid-range is better, but I'm sure cut-off for good shooters is more than for 3s and may actually be around 80%. Biggest problem I don't really remember him shooting any mid-range.
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I'm not going to get excited about a player making 55% of his uncontested jumpers. Hell, Mike Muscala only missed two of his uncontested jumpers, and he's a 6'11" PF. Williams shot under 70% from the freethrow line. Hows that for uncontested? He has little or no midrange game. He shoots wounded bricks from the three, and he a terrible finisher at the basket. Other than that, he's terrific! He is a very good athlete and a very good passer with good court vision. He has potential, but he also scares me to death.
 
Gilles said:
He's not a PG. They ran PG by committee with Triche. And he's pass-first because he can't score. Ford is all rah-rah about his improved shooting, but making only 55% of uncontested jumpers is bad. Mid-range is better, but I'm sure cut-off for good shooters is more than for 3s and may actually be around 80%. Biggest problem I don't really remember him shooting any mid-range.
Click to expand...


He has a good handle and can pass, he shared ball handling duty with Triche at times ... which from the Kings perspective CAN be a good thing, and also pretty common in college basketball. He can play with another ball handler. We just happen to have a combo 2 who likes to have the ball in his hands. I'd call him a PG, but position titles do not matter if the pieces fit.

Look, I'm not going to hide it. Carter-Williams is one of the guys I really like in this draft. I like him in general, but I also like him for this team. I'd consider him with our pick, however I'd certainly take a big man, assuming it was the right big man, in front of him.

I think his MASSIVE shooting problems may be just a little, little overstated. He actually shot 39% from the floor which is not good (43.8 on 2's) and 29% on 3's, but those numbers are better than some people are making it sound. Is it wrong to expect some improvement from a college player at some point? I mean John Salmons shot 39% from the floor. If we add a SF who can shoot, a long with Evans progress as a shooter I don't think it would be much of a problem. As the primary ball handler, playing 35 minutes per game he only took 9.9 shots anyway. Scoring is not his role, and he knows it. We need someone who knows that. Per36 Thomas took 14 shots per game with little playmaking and poor defense, and IT doesn't exactly stretch the floor with his deadly jumper.

Again, I like the fit with Evans. I think his shooting will improve, other don't - that's fine. Carter-Williams for Isaiah Thomas would drastically improve our passing, it will improve our overall size, it will improve our defense, it will improve Evans involvement in the offense, it would get Cousins the ball in better positions. If spacing is really an issue, Sign Wright, start Patterson and you have plenty of shooting on the floor.

Just about every player available at 7 will come with some risk. I'm scared of MCW too! but I'm also scared of Gobert and Adams, I'm very scared of Bennett, No thanks to Shabazz and Zeller... I think Len is a safer player than those guys, but he could be gone. Maybe McCollum is our guy, but his 16FGA per game scares me as well.

And I agree with Baja, by the way. If we try and keep the old team together and run MCW-Evans-Salmons-JT-Cousins, that would be a disaster. I have no reason to expect we won't make other moves this offseason, though. I think Dorrell Wright is a player we should look at no matter who we draft. Get him on a short deal to add some effective shooting to the SF spot. If MCW and Evans are starting together, a smart GM would obviously look for some shooting at the 3.
 
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funkykingston said:
I think if the team decided to go with MCW that they'd either be letting Tyreke walk or trying to sign-and-trade him. I think the two of them would be a terrible pairing.

Carter-Williams is like a poor man's Rubio. It's one thing to say he's a poor outside shooter (which he is) but most people seem to gloss over the fact that he's also a poor finisher and has virtually no midrange game either. That said, he'd taller and (I believe) faster that Rubio but he also isn't quite the same level passer and turns the ball over more often while being fairly inconsistent.

Being that he's ball dominant and doesn't spread the floor I think he's a bad match with Evans in the backcourt. MCW shows promise as a defender but like all Syracuse players he'll have a longer learning curve than other rookies in transitioning to playing NBA level defense.

I think he's a player that really needs to be in the right system with the right roster to flourish and I don't think Evans & Cousins are the kind of guys he'd do well with. Athletic, running frontcourt guys and wings that can hit open shots would help his game much more.

In short, I don't like him as a prospect for the Kings but I'll be curious to see how he does in the NBA on another team.
Click to expand...

Good post. The Rubio comparison is an interesting one. By the way, Rubio shot worse from the field in his two pro years than MCW did last year. Actually, MCW's numbers are very comparable to Rubios pro numbers. MCW is obviously more athletic, and I think he's a little LESS ball dominant than Rubio. Could have slightly better off the ball skills, and you obviously like the size. For all the love Rubio gets for his passing, he turns the ball over a lot as well. So does Rajon Rondo. When you facilitate, you turn it over .. part of the job to a certain extent. When you're a good passer and you see the floor well, I think you get a little over confident in your passing abilities.

This roster can be built to accomodate MCW, Evans, and DMC. I believe that. As is, sure, you need more pieces. No doubt about it. I think MCW and Evans in transition would be interesting. I know one issue I've always had with this team is that we so rarely get Cousins the ball in good spots. I used to see Beno get him the ball down low, and to a lesser extent Garcia, but the other guards just didn't notice the position or they didn't want to notice it. I think MCW makes that play.
 
Gilles said:
Ford is all rah-rah about his improved shooting, but making only 55% of uncontested jumpers is bad..
Click to expand...

YES.
i've seen videos of Tyreke making like 80% uncontested 3's, and we all know how his in game shooting has been.

also, Ford is usually allways wrong
 
What exactly is all the fascination surrounding MCW on this board? He is a reach at #7 for us unless he performs incredibly well at work outs. I get that its cool he's a tall PG, but he really didn't demonstrate anything that would make him worth picking during the tournament. Especially being outplayed dramatically by Trey Burke.

I think he's a solid player, but he isn't even as good as Shaun Livingston when he first came to the league.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Good post. The Rubio comparison is an interesting one. By the way, Rubio shot worse from the field in his two pro years than MCW did last year. Actually, MCW's numbers are very comparable to Rubios pro numbers. MCW is obviously more athletic, and I think he's a little LESS ball dominant than Rubio. Could have slightly better off the ball skills, and you obviously like the size. For all the love Rubio gets for his passing, he turns the ball over a lot as well. So does Rajon Rondo. When you facilitate, you turn it over .. part of the job to a certain extent. When you're a good passer and you see the floor well, I think you get a little over confident in your passing abilities.

This roster can be built to accomodate MCW, Evans, and DMC. I believe that. As is, sure, you need more pieces. No doubt about it. I think MCW and Evans in transition would be interesting. I know one issue I've always had with this team is that we so rarely get Cousins the ball in good spots. I used to see Beno get him the ball down low, and to a lesser extent Garcia, but the other guards just didn't notice the position or they didn't want to notice it. I think MCW makes that play.
Click to expand...

I hate to bring this up, but one of the T Wolves problems last season, and part of it is due to Rubio, is that they had no perimeter scoring. One of the reasons that Ridnour played as much as the did, Rubio's injuries aside, was that he could hit a shot from the outside. But the bottom line is that the T Wolves are desparate for someone that can hit an outside shot (Thornton anyone?). We essentially would have the same problem if we paired Williams with Tyreke. On paper it looks terrific, and I can see the vision. But in reality it may might be a nightmare. Now if you can add a sweet shooting SF to the team then maybe it might work.
 
bajaden said:
Where do I begin? Williams has very good handles, so I have no idea what you were watching. As for defense, who the hell knows? He plays for Syracuse, a team that plays a zone 100% of the time. In brief moments of isolation, it appears that he's capable of keeping his man in front of him. But with a zone, its extremely hard to tell anything about the overall capability of a player on defense. Saying he has a highly limited offensive game is being very kind. He's a horrible 3 pt shooter, and only shot 36% overall from the floor. Which means he has trouble scoring from anywhere on the floor.

I really like Williams potential as a PG, and by the way, I don't think he's a ballhog. But to pair him with Tyreke would cause the Kings a lot of trouble on the offensive side of the ball. All the teams would collapse to the middle and make either Williams or Tyreke hit the perimeter shot. Considering that we don't have much of an offensive threat at the SF position either, it could be a disastor.
Click to expand...

He has trouble handling the ball in traffic and I think it has to do with his high dribble.
 
bajaden said:
I hate to bring this up, but one of the T Wolves problems last season, and part of it is due to Rubio, is that they had no perimeter scoring. One of the reasons that Ridnour played as much as the did, Rubio's injuries aside, was that he could hit a shot from the outside. But the bottom line is that the T Wolves are desparate for someone that can hit an outside shot (Thornton anyone?). We essentially would have the same problem if we paired Williams with Tyreke. On paper it looks terrific, and I can see the vision. But in reality it may might be a nightmare. Now if you can add a sweet shooting SF to the team then maybe it might work.
Click to expand...

Oh sure, the Wolves certainly needed perimeter scoring. They traded a first round pick for Chase Budinger they needed a shooter so bad. This team is going to need a 3 who can space the floor no matter who we draft.
 
I am not a big fan of MCW. Though I think he could become a decent PG in the NBA, I am not sure his decision making is very consistent. Also, that high dribble is a concern. I think there are better prospects than MCW, especially at #7 and that we should be patient until draft workouts begin. I would let someone else make that mistake of drafting him! We need to strike gold this draft so we don't end up in the lottery again next year and have ourselves another Thomas Robinson ordeal.
 
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