Did Lebron James Make the Right Decision?

[Superman]

The thing is that 06 was actually the year they had to sign him to the first extension, so that wasn't really an option if there wasn't improvement there he'd have forced his way out then. The following year was the year he finally showed what he really had and willed a marginal team to the Finals on his own. It was also when he began openly flirting with NY that off season. Now coming off a finals appearance they absolutely had to go for it the next year and they did, and I think at that point it became clear that they needed to take a step back - but at that point they were down to two years remaining and LeBron was already as good as gone.

Imagine the Cavs with cap space this summer, as opposed to trying to get LeBron to resign to the same team that lost in the second round of the playoffs. I'm just saying that they didn't play it right. It's not as if this came out of nowhere.

Yes, they botched it but I don't see how you can't hold him accountable for basically forcing their hands at that point by sending all the signals that he sent. You make it sound like the 7 years he gave them was all the time in the world when the fact is he came to the team out of high school, spent a few years learning on the job and got them into the position where they probably would have won once in the next 5 years. And you know winning once in Cleveland would have been legendary. Statue outside the arena, streets, hell even arenas and public buildings named after you legendary. A savior to a city mired in 50 years of misery. I would think as a Colts fan you'd appreciate that more than I do as a Boston fan where titles are often expected.

I have no ties to Indy, but I understand what you're saying. I do appreciate it. For the fans, it's heart-rending. But for the organization, they were complicit.

Everybody can't win a title every year. We've all pronounced Tyreke to be a special player, though we note that the numbers don't tell the story much was made about how his numbers compared to LeBron (and MJ and Oscar). So what is the magic number where the Kings have to win a title or they've let Evans down?

The difference is that the Kings have a solid young core, and they might even be able to make a splash or two. Using this LeBron saga as a learning experience and as motivation will hopefully put small market teams on notice that they better play it to win while they have a chance to. Loyalty doesn't exist. So if you have a young star, you better make him feel good about the direction of the franchise and his chances of winning with your team.

I'm not saying that LeBron did the right thing. I'm just saying that a) the Cavs organization misplayed this entire thing, starting in 2006; b) I don't think he's a coward or a bum or spineless for joining Wade in Miami; c) I do think he's a heartless mother who just left his fiance at the altar, and that will never be forgotten.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

My mistake. Appparently I'm only recalling the part where he said he would only want to play for a major market and not the details of the deal.

And of course if they hadn't picked him the universe could have exploded when we did.

 

[Superman]

My understanding at the time was that Charlotte picked Kobe at the Lakers request as part of the deal for Vlade that was necessary so that the Lakers could sign Shaq.

Kobe was in fact a jerk at the draft saying he would only play for a major market but it never actually came down to a game of chicken because he was picked at the Lakers request.

Yeah, it was different from, say, Eli Manning saying that he wouldn't play for the Chargers (the merits of his stance notwithstanding). The Hornets picked Kobe specifically to trade him away to the Lakers.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Imagine the Cavs with cap space this summer, as opposed to trying to get LeBron to resign to the same team that lost in the second round of the playoffs. I'm just saying that they didn't play it right. It's not as if this came out of nowhere.

But that's the thing, they actually did have a deal worked out for Bosh last week. And you have to believe the reason Bosh nixed it was because they had all decided in advance to go to Miami.

As always its fun discussing these things with you

 

[Rookie]

How soon we forget Kobe demanded a trade from Charlotte as opposed to staying and making the franchise relevant. LeBron has been in Cleveland for 7 years and the organization failed to provide him with a #2. So now Kobe is loyal because he stayed in LA for the 2 seasons that they sucked? Not only did he ask for a trade but we have to remember he had already won 3 rings. Bron has zero and is now entering the prime of his career. He just realized if he wants to win he has to gtfo. KG told him loyalty is a dead end street in bball if you want to WIN. Having said that I would personally have stayed in Cleveland. I'd rather have my self respect than a ring.

Atleast you remember Kobe got traded...do you know when? He made it clear where he wanted to go. How can you compare that with this is beyond me.

The difference between him and KG is KG was never been King Garnette..LOL. KG was old, he stuck with Minnesota for a long time and not even the Minnesota fans can blame him. Also he went to join up with 2 others star that never won anything. LBJ is young and is considered to be great. He hasn't given it his all in Cleveland and went to join Wade's team and hopefully get a ring.

I have no problem with LBJ wanting to win but like I stated a while back, he should go to Miami or New York. At least there he can still be the King but in Miami...that's Wade's kingdom.

It's different going to another team and carrying that team to a championship then going to a team to get a championship. That will be his legacy...going to Miami to get a ring.

 

[SacKings7]

Yeah, it was different from, say, Eli Manning saying that he wouldn't play for the Chargers (the merits of his stance notwithstanding). The Hornets picked Kobe specifically to trade him away to the Lakers.

Actually not gonna complain about that one too much though. I love Rivers and Merriman (even though he's probably gone). Too bad they only got a regular season kicker out of the deal instead of a playoff kicker.

But yeah this whole thing with rookies refusing to play for teams makes me sick to my stomach. They haven't proven that they're worth anything yet, where do they get the ego? I never did forgive Steve Francis for refusing to play in Vancouver

 

[Superman]

But that's the thing, they actually did have a deal worked out for Bosh last week. And you have to believe the reason Bosh nixed it was because they had all decided in advance to go to Miami.

As always its fun discussing these things with you

Four years later...

I mean, I get what you're saying, I'm just saying that it's not like LeBron snuck this opt-out clause into his contract six months ago. They could have been working on a sign-and-trade for Bosh last summer. They could have made the Amare deal work. Etc. Cavs management blew it.

 

[Superman]

Actually not gonna complain about that one too much though. I love Rivers and Merriman (even though he's probably gone). Too bad they only got a regular season kicker out of the deal instead of a playoff kicker.

But yeah this whole thing with rookies refusing to play for teams makes me sick to my stomach. They haven't proven that they're worth anything yet, where do they get the ego? I never did forgive Steve Francis for refusing to play in Vancouver

Doesn't bother me. The teams enable. If you really are sick of it, you draft Eli and make him hold out for a year and lose tens of millions, and no one ever holds out on you again. But the smart thing to so is say "okay, you don't want to be here, we don't want you here, we'll build a contender without you." And that's what AJ Smith did. It's too bad he's too big of an egomaniac to pay his players what they're worth.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

On LeBatard's radio show, he's proposing "Run the point" night, to let random fans be the point guard for the Heat.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Four years later...

But Bosh wasn't available six months ago. Who did they pass on that they should have gone after would be a better question and one I don't feel equipped to answer. Ok, the Amare rental, but we're all laughing at NY and Amare in other threads, though obviously a 2 month rental is quite different than the long term deal NY made.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

On LeBatard's radio show, he's proposing "Run the point" night, to let random fans be the point guard for the Heat.

Oh, man, they could just leave a roster spot open and hook one person after another up with ten-day contracts. Totally and completely legal within the CBA.

"Aaaand at PG, a 5'10" accountant out of Daytona State, JIIIIMMM PEEEETERSOOOOON!"

"Starting at PG, a 5'3" housewife from Fort Lauderdale, CRISTIIIIINA GUERRRRRREEEERRRRROOOOOO!"

They'd probably still win, and talk about the PR!

 

[Superman]

Oh, man, they could just leave a roster spot open and hook one person after another up with ten-day contracts. Totally and completely legal within the CBA.

"Aaaand at PG, a 5'10" accountant out of Daytona State, JIIIIMMM PEEEETERSOOOOON!"

"Starting at PG, a 5'3" housewife from Fort Lauderdale, CRISTIIIIINA GUERRRRRREEEERRRRROOOOOO!"

They'd probably still win, and talk about the PR!

I'd love it. Chris Webber was saying something like this last night on NBATV.

 

[Superman]

But Bosh wasn't available six months ago. Who did they pass on that they should have gone after would be a better question and one I don't feel equipped to answer. Ok, the Amare rental, but we're all laughing at NY and Amare in other threads, though obviously a 2 month rental is quite different than the long term deal NY made.

I think I'm higher on Amare than most are, but him by himself in NY is a joke. Still, Amare and LeBron on the Cavs would have been a Celtics' beater, and when you look at how much trouble Amare gave the Lakers in the WCF (at least in Games 3 and 4), that would be a pretty serious pairing.

Like I said earlier, I don't want to go back in time and say "they could have done this or that," because that's not fair. I'm just saying that their best move was trading for Antawn Jamison, and that just wasn't good enough.

 

[sterö]

But there is one positive thing about this free agency: I´ve finally found a way to cheer for the Lakers.....if they are playing the Heat in the Finals

 

[Rookie]

Somehow I don't think the Lakers will be as competetive as they were this season.

 

[Superman]

It pains my heart to see all these people saying they are going to root for the Lakers.

 

[Gargamel]

Still Kobe's Fakers. How could you say otherwise.

The aspect of these three joining up in South Bay (note Bron said that instead of "I'm joining the Heat") and 2 of them leaving behind unsexy locales should hit home with you. And Cleveland in particular goes back into the toilet for a looooooooong *** time.

When they succeed...because they're going to outlast the title windows of LA and Boston...it's going to be a bad precedent set for good, young players (regardless of if they had the right to move, which they did). Tyreke and DeMarcus down the road???

 

[Gargamel]

Oh, man, they could just leave a roster spot open and hook one person after another up with ten-day contracts. Totally and completely legal within the CBA.

"Aaaand at PG, a 5'10" accountant out of Daytona State, JIIIIMMM PEEEETERSOOOOON!"

haha. Intentional diss at the actual player named Jim Peterson? Didn't he play for Sac or am I thinking of Chilcutt? Or are they the same guy?

 

[Superman]

The aspect of these three joining up in South Bay (note Bron said that instead of "I'm joining the Heat") and 2 of them leaving behind unsexy locales should hit home with you. And Cleveland in particular goes back into the toilet for a looooooooong *** time.

When they succeed...because they're going to outlast the title windows of LA and Boston...it's going to be a bad precedent set for good, young players (regardless of if they had the right to move, which they did). Tyreke and DeMarcus down the road???

...

Not enough to just allow us to nurse our paper cut, you have to come and pour lemon juice and salt on it, and then rub? Thanks for the reality check, Laker fan.

j/k

Sort of.

 

[kennadog]

The aspect of these three joining up in South Bay (note Bron said that instead of "I'm joining the Heat") and 2 of them leaving behind unsexy locales should hit home with you. And Cleveland in particular goes back into the toilet for a looooooooong *** time.

When they succeed...because they're going to outlast the title windows of LA and Boston...it's going to be a bad precedent set for good, young players (regardless of if they had the right to move, which they did). Tyreke and DeMarcus down the road???

I think that may be why a lot of Kings fans are upset by this. It's certainly part of my reason for being upset. I really feel for the Cavs fans and it could be us getting dumped in a few years, with our team in miserable tatters.

Kings fans really sweated out Webber's free agency. We got lucky and he chose to stay. I think its a possibility that decision was driven more by who his teammates were at the time (and how good they were), than loyalty to Sacramento.

 

[Gargamel]

...

Not enough to just allow us to nurse our paper cut, you have to come and pour lemon juice and salt on it, and then rub? Thanks for the reality check, Laker fan.

j/k

Sort of.

Dood, I was spared from shock over this because I already knew he wasn't a basketball craftsman. I really don't know how the hell to define him other than mercurial. There's about as much finesse to him personally as there is in his game (not a lot). He can't see the NBA like an oldschooler does. A lot of his fellow Myspace Gen friends can't either. Even I'm concerned about the ability to reach young players of the future. They are like sands thru the fingers if they don't have everything to their liking. Brands aren't meaning as much as they used to... Jordan and Ewing were thankful they got drafted by NY & CHI when both teams SUCKED and Bron didn't give a rat'z for either of their pitches. Lol / yikes / gulp. He went to the team that already constructed a Frankenstein champion in 06, only to immediately crumble thereafter.

 

[gunks]

The Miami Heat, or as I like to call them "The Superfriends (plus Bosh)", are going to fail.

Wade will get hurt (as always), Bosh isnt really that great (he's good, but people putting him on that superstar eschelon is silly), and they wont have enough cap to sign decent players to round out the roster. It's going to end up being LeBron + a supporting cast no better than what Cleveland has.

Gargamel makes a scary point too (both the point raised, and the fact that a Lakers fan can be lucid and incisive being scary. JK Gargamel, I know you're a reg), will our homebrewed kids bounce? Is a big market team part of "the blueprint"?

Anyways, LeBron should have gone to the Bulls. The Superfriends (plus Bosh) will disappoint.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The aspect of these three joining up in South Bay (note Bron said that instead of "I'm joining the Heat") and 2 of them leaving behind unsexy locales should hit home with you. And Cleveland in particular goes back into the toilet for a looooooooong *** time.

When they succeed...because they're going to outlast the title windows of LA and Boston...it's going to be a bad precedent set for good, young players (regardless of if they had the right to move, which they did). Tyreke and DeMarcus down the road???

Yeah, its why I'm a bit take aback by some of the LBJ apologists that posted earlier (not Supes who I think is neither an apologist and is arguing something different). But I suspect that this is good to happen now and may also prevent something similar happening to us by virtue of either fan backlash or new rules in the next CBA. Hopefully both.

It pains my heart to see all these people saying they are going to root for the Lakers.

You know, I'm just hoping they never play in the finals so I don't have to choose. Obviously a couple of arenas spontaneously combusting (fatality free) would be the only result that would be palatable to my senses should that happen.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

haha. Intentional diss at the actual player named Jim Peterson? Didn't he play for Sac or am I thinking of Chilcutt? Or are they the same guy?

Unintentional. Nor was reference to accountant occupation an intentional dis towards Jim Les, former Sacramento King and actual accountant. Just some sort of creepy coincidence, I guess. Originally, I was going to type Jim Thompson as a random name, but realizing we already have Jason Thompson here, I changed the surname. Could have been Chester Chucklesworth for all I cared, was just looking for a random, reasonable name.

 

[Superman]

I think that may be why a lot of Kings fans are upset by this. It's certainly part of my reason for being upset. I really feel for the Cavs fans and it could be us getting dumped in a few years, with our team in miserable tatters.

Kings fans really sweated out Webber's free agency. We got lucky and he chose to stay. I think its a possibility that decision was driven more by who his teammates were at the time (and how good they were), than loyalty to Sacramento.

In Webber's case, I think the $123 million had a lot to do with it, too.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

In Webber's case, I think the $123 million had a lot to do with it, too.

Like I said earlier, it all comes down to MONEY & WINNING. If the home team is a contender, there is almost no reason for a superstar to go to another team and leave money on the table. Bosh left because the Raptors stink. James left because he doesn't think he'll ever win one with the Cavs. Amare left because Suns wouldn't pay him max.

If we are a legit contender when Tyreke's second contract is up, I don't see him going anywhere.

 

[Superman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100709

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I was reading the Simmons piece earlier and there are some great gems in there. Among them:

When it came out that Brad Pitt was divorcing Jennifer Aniston for Angelina Jolie EVERY woman in the world wanted to hate Pitt. Yet, he handled his business and didn't talk about the reasons. Shortly after women weren't holding a grudge and couldn't even remember not loving him (absolutely amazing!). Why? Because he didn't call an hour long live TV spectacular to dump Jen for a hotter woman. After tonight no one will ever forget to hate LeBron.

and

When LeBron arrives in Miami, will it be Dexter Morgan's responsibility to "put him down" since he murdered all of Cleveland?

 

[Bricklayer]

those aren't even Simmons' -- a lot of those fan comments were incredibly smart/on point (again raising the question of just how many fans are out there that get it more than the various "professionals" playing/reporting on the sport.

Many good ones on its effect on Cleveland or his not understanding what he did, but this one a long way down cuaght my attention too, because this is the second half of the double whammy he dealt his legacy:

City: New York
Name: Rob
As a Knick fan I'm not even mad, I'm just disappointed. He gave up. He quit. The most gifted basketball player ever said "I can't do it." How disheartening is that for sports fans? He had options, and good options, to be the man on a good team with a legitimate second banana (Amare, Rose) or stay with a 60-win team, but he chose to ride the coattails of Wade. Wow. He gave away his shot at being the greatest ever ... or even entering the discussion. What competitor does that?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

James, Bosh and Wade just received keys to Dade County.