piksi
Hall of Famer
stiil, Barkley didn't go to be a Robin to a Batman. Where ever Barkley went - it was "his" team.
Did Lebron James Make the Right Decision?
- Thread starter ElRey
- Start date
stiil, Barkley didn't go to be a Robin to a Batman. Where ever Barkley went - it was "his" team.
Meh; Barkley criticized LeBron for leaving, when he did the exact same thing, twice, in fact. Pot, meet kettle.
Heuge
Starter
Yes, Barkleys only problem was that he sucked at knowing when and how to demand it. Oh, and he did Dexler and Hakeem, he failed.
Yeah, I recognize that. I didn't realize that Gund had written an open letter to the fans at all, much less that he had publicly laid out in exact detail how poorly Boozer had acted. On top of that, I was just observing that Cleveland has gotten the short end of the sports stick again. I was not trying to compare LeBron and Boozer in any way.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
wheww... imagine how uncomfortable it will be to go back to your hometown each time if you're Lebron James.
Yeah. Lebron said he'd still make Akron his home town. Good luck to that. At the best he's going to get an arctic cold shoulder; at the worst he's going to have to double his body guard contingent.
No ... Barkley criticized him for going to a team to 'piggyback' his way to a championship. His point was that James at this point in his career should try to win a championship as THE main gun, and that Cleveland was already well equipped for him to do so. Bad teams don't finish with almost/the most wins in the regular season over a couple of years. Anyway, this isn't about Barkley, it's about LeBron. Whether Charles Barkley was being a hypocrite or not doesn't take away anything from the fact that James screwed Cleveland over big time, and for the supposed best player in the league is doing something rather ... un-best-player-in-the-league-like.
True in several respects. I get Barkley's main point, I just think he's not being honest. He did the exact same thing, so claiming that he would have stayed is kind of ... well, a lie.
On the idea that LeBron screwed Cleveland over, I disagree. He certainly ditched his prom date, and that sucks for Cleveland, but what really happened is that he told Cleveland: "Look, I'll take you to the prom, but if you can't dance, we're gonna have to reevaluate this relationship." Loyalty and all is great to talk about, but at the end of the day, LeBron was a free agent. He earned his free agency by playing out his contract. Everyone knew that he might leave and go sign with another team, and that's just what he did. If the Cavs were somehow unprepared for it, then that's their fault. If Dan Gilbert didn't realize that the writing was on the wall two months ago, then he's just as idiotic as his "letter" makes him sound. Stuart Scott said something this morning to the effect of "If you're wondering why I left someone, look at their reaction, and that will probably tell you why." Not only is Dan Gilbert a delusional asshat, he's the one that's responsible for his team.
Now, if by "James screwed Cleveland over" you meant, the city, the fans, well, I won't argue there. I feel incredibly bad for the fans. I work with a guy who is a die-hard Cavs fan. He has posters and printouts all over his office. He hasn't come in yet. I think I'll go take all his LeBron stuff down so he doesn't have a complete psychological break when he gets here.
jalfa
Starter
Just to clarify, the reason I originally posted Gund's letter was to point out whom Gilbert modelled his letter after and why *he* thought a letter like this was appropriate. I completely disagree with his stance (in no way shape or form was what james did a betrayal, even though this show was a bit suspect) and I think the comparison with Gund's letter, which was completely justified (boozer is a douchebag), composed and written in a mature way, just underlines the weirdness of this letter.
Gund didn't make absurd claims, either. He detailed the specifics, shouldered the blame, and said that he while he was disappointed, he wanted to keep moving forward with the guys that wanted to be there. Gilbert threw a temper tantrum, basically accused LeBron of sabotage, and made a ridiculous guarantee that only has a chance of coming true if Gilbert has hired someone to "Tonya Harding" LeBron's knee.
Huge differences, all the way around. The primary one being that the Cavs gave Boozer his free agency, whereas LeBron earned his by playing his entire contract out.
I'm not accusing him of quitting, I'm speaking to his general demeanor at times throughout the last 2 years and particularly as it wound down against the C's. To the extent that he was willing to put the team on his back he did it without concern for any of his teammates, he became a one man team. Flash back to when many of us first met LeBron when ESPN started televising his HS games and he was going out of his way to distribute and make his mediocre teammates look special vs. the prevailing attitude of today that it's everybody's fault but LeBron's that they couldn't win.
Jerryaki
Starter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No, the letter was a risk, and probably just straight from the heart, but it did do one critical thing -- it spoke directly to the Cleveland fanbase. Gave them a rallying cry.
I don't see it. I don't know what was up in Game 5 against the Celtics, but if you believe the reports about Delonte West, I'd have been "distracted" too. Bounced back in Game 6 with a triple-double, including 19 rebounds. Everyone wilted in the second half. Mo Williams was on fire in the first half, disappeared. 13 total bench points. Antawn Jamison contributed a stellar five points and five rebounds, shooting 2-10. In that game, it was everyone's fault but LeBron's that they couldn't win. In 2007, he scored 25 straight points to put his team in the Finals. Without him doing that, they go home and we watch the Pistons and Spurs again.
And to point out a double standard, not on a personal level, but in general, remember several years ago when LeBron was passing the ball on the final possession to wide open teammates, and they were blowing shots? I remember one in particular that he set up for Donyell Marshall, a good three point shooter, and the media KILLED LeBron for passing the ball. Now you're saying that he started putting the team on his back without regard for his teammates. He can't win. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Pass the ball and he's not an alpha, take the shots and he's a ballhog. This is the way the media does it, though, and I understand that as well as anyone (January of 2005, Peyton Manning "couldn't win the big one", January of 2010, he's the best quarterback of all time, a month later he's back to being a choker. The media sensationalizes everything.) I'm just pointing out that I don't understand what you think LeBron should have done these past two years that he didn't do. You don't win 127 games in two seasons, with a roster of misfits, if you're not fully committed.
So now people are cheering Dan Gilbert’s manifesto tearing apart James, but no one contributed more to what the world witnessed on Thursday night than the owner’s enabling of James and his inner circle for seven years. Gilbert is the biggest con going, a man who makes his fortune peddling mortgages, and he’ll make his next on casinos in downtown Cleveland. He sells illusions for a living, and now he’s selling the biggest of all: that he’s a victim here, that James betrayed everyone. That’s a lie, and no one ought to dare buy it.
Everyone searching for a scapegoat here – Mike Brown, Danny Ferry, Delonte West(notes) – well, just understand that it was the man screaming loudest with LeBron out the door, the man most determined to deflect blame onto him now.
Now, Gilbert is the tough guy with James leaving the Cavs behind? Listen, Ferry and Brown always warned Gilbert that giving James everything he wanted – giving it when and where and how – wouldn’t be the way they would keep him. LeBron didn’t respect them because they never demanded it.
Gilbert always believed he should do everything James wanted – hire his buddies into jobs, throw them on summer-league rosters, allow him to do those stupid pregame choreographed dances – that James would love him, that he would never leave. Only, James is a taker, and he took and took until he had bled Gilbert and that franchise to the bone.
So now, Gilbert unleashes the most revisionist and self-serving screed that a scorned owner’s ever done. Gilbert is a bully and a baby. As much as James, Gilbert revealed himself, too. He asked for this humiliation and deserves it. Only those fans in Cleveland don’t deserve this. They were loyal, true, and ultimately they must know Gilbert lashed out to make James the villain for a most self-serving reason: to avoid the blame himself. Damn right James quit on the Cavaliers in that playoff series, but that was because Gilbert was always there to make it easy for him. All those times Ferry and Brown warned the owner they had to make stands with James, that they had to force him to have some level of respect within that organization or there would be an ultimate price to pay.
Everyone searching for a scapegoat here – Mike Brown, Danny Ferry, Delonte West(notes) – well, just understand that it was the man screaming loudest with LeBron out the door, the man most determined to deflect blame onto him now.
Now, Gilbert is the tough guy with James leaving the Cavs behind? Listen, Ferry and Brown always warned Gilbert that giving James everything he wanted – giving it when and where and how – wouldn’t be the way they would keep him. LeBron didn’t respect them because they never demanded it.
Gilbert always believed he should do everything James wanted – hire his buddies into jobs, throw them on summer-league rosters, allow him to do those stupid pregame choreographed dances – that James would love him, that he would never leave. Only, James is a taker, and he took and took until he had bled Gilbert and that franchise to the bone.
So now, Gilbert unleashes the most revisionist and self-serving screed that a scorned owner’s ever done. Gilbert is a bully and a baby. As much as James, Gilbert revealed himself, too. He asked for this humiliation and deserves it. Only those fans in Cleveland don’t deserve this. They were loyal, true, and ultimately they must know Gilbert lashed out to make James the villain for a most self-serving reason: to avoid the blame himself. Damn right James quit on the Cavaliers in that playoff series, but that was because Gilbert was always there to make it easy for him. All those times Ferry and Brown warned the owner they had to make stands with James, that they had to force him to have some level of respect within that organization or there would be an ultimate price to pay.
Insofar as the Cleveland fanbase is as delusional and out of touch as Gilbert is, which I doubt.
What I'm saying is that while nobody is going to mistake Cleveland for a team of all-stars they are not as terrible as the LeBron crazy media makes them out to be. Yes they likely go from 60 wins to lottery team without LeBron. We became a lottery team after Webber and Divac left, does that mean everyone else was scrubs? And LeBron demanded they make some short term moves with no concern for the long term future because he knew if they didn't get it done in the small window he was giving them he was out. We can talk all about Kobe pouting between Shaq and Gasol, he did ultimately stick with the team through the bad times. Or Duncan flirting with free agency as Robinson's star faded before they reloaded, all talk. Or even his new teammate D-Wade who never was a serious threat to leave the Heat despite the fact that they were in the lottery about as often as they were serious contenders.
I don't agree with Cleveland's owner that he is a victim in all this because he enabled it, but the fact is that LeBron owns the bad aspects of the Cavs the last few years as much as he owns the good because ownership ceded complete control to LeBron despite the warnings of Ferry and even Coach Brown (apparently).
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
They are burning his jersey in downtown Cleveland. Think about that. Cleveland is burning LeBron James's jersey.
And really they should. Not only did their childhood friend and high school sweetheart dump them for another girl because the other girl just got a nice set of implants, he humiliated them in public when doing so, for no apparent reason other than his own ego. That's how you get your stuff thrown out the window.
Its a complete disaster for James' image and he's never going to be able to be comfortable going back to his hometown again. Hard to assassinate your own character and lose your hometwon all in one fell swoop.
Geoff
Starter
You really think Lebron will accept a Robin/Pippen role?
Minor quibble. We did not immediately become a lotter team. We made the playoffs for two years without Vlade, one year without Webber. Fifty wins each of those two years.
True. So make better moves. Who is the best player Cleveland ever gave LeBron?
Kobe demanded a trade. The only reason he stuck with it is because Doc Buss refused to trade him. Duncan was mostly all talk. D-Wade might not have left, but he might have.
True.
kupman
Starter
Jerryaki
Starter
piksi
Hall of Famer
there is nothing to accept - it is the fact
Except that he didn't do the exact same thing: the exact same thing would have been if he had forced a trade to Chicago, or New York, or Utah. He forced a trade to a team where he was immediately going to become the best player; he didn't leave Philadelphia and go to somebody else's team.
jalfa
Starter
Still, Gilbert's letter, in this form, will do nothing but damage himself and the Cavs. Had he done the same as Gund did with the Boozer situation, articulated his anger and disappointment in a mature and reasonable way and not like a scorned highschool sweetheart, then this might have been something completely different. Maybe this letter helps the Cavs fans right now, but in the end, I believe he'll regret saying anything, because, leaguewide, the letter will make him seem like a madman.
I understand we made the playoffs that first year without Webber, but that came in the wake of a major surge when we swapped Peja for Artest. Without that trade we were lottery bound. I had to mention Vlade because outside this fanbase I believe his role is underappreciated and I didn't feel like leaving his absence out despite being an extra year removed.
I think time will bear that out. I don't know, but I think that had LeBron not forced a sense of urgency on the Cavs they could have done what the Heat (or some of his other suitors) did and maybe take it down a notch for a year in an attempt at a major re-load. And in fact they were on the verge of bringing Bosh in for next season with Cleveland and Toronto reportedly agreeing on S&T conditions which were nixed by Bosh, who surely had advanced knowledge they could both bolt to Miami (where Bosh is reportedly getting a max deal regardless of what Wade and James agree on).
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NME
Starter
It's like Simon and Garfunkel. Garfunkel had the better voice, but Simon wrote all the songs.
Lebron, you're this guy:
