Telemachus
Starter
I guess we will all find out if the Cavs were as bad as many of us claimed, or if James didn't carry them as much as has been reported.
Did Lebron James Make the Right Decision?
- Thread starter ElRey
- Start date
I guess we will all find out if the Cavs were as bad as many of us claimed, or if James didn't carry them as much as has been reported.
I have been advised by a reliable source that this is legitimate:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I have been advised by a reliable source that this is legitimate:
hmm...well 1) what did they do? have a midnight city council meeting?
adn 2) I have some concerns about that bottom sign -- namely that the rivets on it appear to have rust stains running down from beneath them which would take years to form, and this only happened two days ago
UKRAINE
G-League
LeBron was a FREE agent. It was his right to go to any team. He is not a slave and/or owes nothing to people in Cleveland or the organization. NOTHING! He fulfilled his contract and played as hard as he could.
I think "the decision" decison was a wrong move and LeBron should have just announced it like the other guys and I think now he regrets it. However, I do not think it was something terrible like he offended or destroyed someone. He just decided not to play for that team. That's it.
And the owner (who became a hero for some people) was a true aXX.
I think "the decision" decison was a wrong move and LeBron should have just announced it like the other guys and I think now he regrets it. However, I do not think it was something terrible like he offended or destroyed someone. He just decided not to play for that team. That's it.
And the owner (who became a hero for some people) was a true aXX.
Quit being obtuse: it's not the leaving, in and of itself, that has made LeBron as hated as he has become.
I agree with this, but the fans are also allowed to have their expectations. I know that it obviously meant absolutely nothing to LeBron but the fact that he was playing for his hometown team meant a lot to the people there and I don't think they ever believed what everyone else could see - he didn't give a ****. That would hurt any town but Cleveland already had some serious abandonment issues and so again the fans expected LeBron would share them. Except LeBron was a front runner and rooted for the Cowboys and Yankees not the Browns or Indians so why would he share the abandonment complex? Those teams spit their players out not the other way around, that's the world he lives in.
Agreed. It may not have been for the best long term and he certainly enabled LeBron more than anybody, but again it was something that the fans needed/wanted while they get through their grief of being stabbed in their hearts.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
gotta agree with this. however, he didn't need to make a spectacle of it tho. cmon 1 freaking hour on national tv!? just move onto where your gonna go instead of slapping the franchise that drafted you and did everything you wanted them to do.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
the situations are the simliar in that the kings had hope that they would continue to make the playoffs. the only difference is that cleveland had a bonafide star. the result would be the same if lebron was on the kings. lots of patchwork that doesn't work. all lebron has seen was patchwork vets, blown draft pick (luke jackson over andris biedrens, al jefferson, josh smith, jr smith, kevin martin and even beno), traded draft picks (paxson traded a future 1st for LMAO jiri effing welsch), signing hughes to a lengthy contract. i don't see any strategy in it. i'm sure lebron didn't either. what would have become of the cavs if they had a creative GM like pritchard. how much young talent would be lebron be surrounded with?
i can't believe you compared lebron leaving to kobe leaving after losing to the celts. kobe had everything going for him, prime city to play in, the moniez, a LEGIT #2 in gasol. who does lebron have? LMAO a supposed # in jamison. gasol possesses more skill in left testicle than tweener jamison could ever dream of. the comparison is not even close.
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UKRAINE
G-League
I understand .. BUT at the same time, he is not responsible for those failures in Cleveland.
You can not blame a guy for that. It is like a communism where people are told that you cannot move to another city, you have to stay and fix it because you were born here and it is your destiny, nobody cares what you want and think and etc. It is America. We all have a right to pursue our dreams and his dream (desire) was to play with Wade and compete for the championship. May be he did not believe that it was possible in Ohio.
gunks
Hall of Famer
I'm on the "its not fair to think LeBron HAD to stay on the Cavs" bandwagon. Dude stuck it out for 7 years, they dicked around with the roster and never gave him a team. Sure you can say it was because they were catering, but it is not LeBron's fault they indulged him. You dont blame the kid for being a brat, you blame the parents (ok, you can blame both).
Sure, it would have been nice if the hometown hero stuck around, but I dont think you can blame him for leaving.
Also, all this talk of him playing with Wade and Bosh tainting his legacy is silly. Basketball is a TEAM sport. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, Kobe couldnt do anything without a star big. Boston won because of the Big 3. One guy cant do it. If one guy could do it, LeBron would already have his ring(s). I still think Kobe has a better supporting cast. Pau>>>>>Bosh, and Wade is just going to go down with injury.
As far as his special on ESPN. THAT was classless. But hey, the media created the ego monster.
I'm not gonna hate on LeBron. I do feel terrible for the fans of the Cavs. Thats gotta sting.
As for the thread question. Did LeBron make the right decision? Hell no. He shoulda gone to the Bulls.
Sure, it would have been nice if the hometown hero stuck around, but I dont think you can blame him for leaving.
Also, all this talk of him playing with Wade and Bosh tainting his legacy is silly. Basketball is a TEAM sport. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, Kobe couldnt do anything without a star big. Boston won because of the Big 3. One guy cant do it. If one guy could do it, LeBron would already have his ring(s). I still think Kobe has a better supporting cast. Pau>>>>>Bosh, and Wade is just going to go down with injury.
As far as his special on ESPN. THAT was classless. But hey, the media created the ego monster.
I'm not gonna hate on LeBron. I do feel terrible for the fans of the Cavs. Thats gotta sting.
As for the thread question. Did LeBron make the right decision? Hell no. He shoulda gone to the Bulls.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Freedom includes the freedom to **** up, and to be called on it. It includes the freedom to make yourself look bad, the freedom to run away from a challenge, the freedom to take the easy way out. And not once does it serve as any sort of shield against criticism when you make the wrong decision.
Oh, and the "its business" line is such utter B.S.. It gets tossed around by numbnuts in the media and apologists, but its a ridiculous take on things. When people are naming their kids after you, its not business. When you leave the "LeBron James Grandmother Fan's Club" in tears, its not business. When people invest themselves in you, you OWE them. And if you want to play the clueless ingrate, when you intentionally inspire such loyalty and investment you DEFINITELY owe them. You may or may not owe them your continued loyalty, but you at the very least owe them your compassion and consideration.
You are free to leave your long time gf any time you like. You are free to do it for a plastic glamour gal. You are free to do it on the jumbotron at halftime of the Super Bowl. You are also free to quit the family business and go join your friends at a competitor because you are tired of the fight. You are free to do all sorts of things that make the majority of the world look at you in a lesser light. Lebron had every right to destroy his legacy and popularity in one fell swoop. The fact that he would actually do so bespeaks of someone either utterly clueless or somebody utterly callous. His maturity, competitiveness, loyalty, etc. are now all very open to question. His generation's greatest talent pulled a Tiger Woods, and that is fundamentally stupid.
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Uncia03
Starter
Yes. He did make the right decision
1.) First of all, he did not handle himself appropriately. When I heard about the 1 hour special my immediate reaction was that he was going to stay with the Cavs, as to do anything else would be utterly devastating to that region. You could tell during the interview that he realized this was a really, really bad idea. It was a slap to the face of that region, and I'm certain something which he'll regret for the rest of his life.
2.) The ONLY reason for him to stay in Cleveland was because it is his hometown. Had he been born and raised anywhere else it would be a foregone conclusion that he'd leave.
No-one doubted for a second that Bosh would leave. Bosh had no feelings of regional loyalty to make the decision difficult for him. The Raptors as they are assembled cannot compete for a championship. The exact same thing can be said of Cleveland.
The major question for him was simple: Which is more important: winning or being loyal to your region.
I've been saying for the last 2 years that there wasn't a single player on the Cavs outside of LBJ that I'd want on my team. And my Kings team has had the worst and 3rd worst records in the league over that two year span.
As soon as the words 'wanting to win' came out of LBJ's mouth, I knew he was leaving Cleveland, because winning it all is the last thing which would happen there. The talent just isn't there.
3.) LeBron is the best basketball player on the planet. But do you know what I hear all the time living in Southern California? I hear, "He 'might' be the best, but it doesn't mean anything because he hasn't won anything. He'll never be considered great unless he can win multiple championships."
This perception of having to win multiple chamionships, this criticism of his game, this is what drove him to leave Cleveland. The Cavs were only good because of LBJ, and the FO failed miserably in assembling the talent necessary to help compete realistically for a championship.
What is the point in being the best on the planet if people invalidate your skills because your FO is incapable of doing what needs to be done to achieve ultimate success?
So if he wanted to win, if he wanted people to stop marginalizing his skills then the only way to do that would be to leave Cleveland and head to a destination where the FO could assemble the other necessary pieces to be legitimate championship contenders.
4.) So he wants to win. If I were him, I'd want to win too. And I'd want to win championships, because that is where he is roundly criticized for failing to do.
So he knows he can't win in Cleveland, and he has to make a choice on where to go.
Here is where I get really confused by some people's positions. People say that he is going to Miami to 'ride Wade's coattails'. People say that by going to Miami he forfeits being THE MAN, and that will damage his legacy.
Here is what I think. I think that if I've been in LBJ's position for 7 years, all I've wanted is to play with other elite basketball players. I want to play with teammates who can win a game if I'm having a bad game.
If the point is to win the game. If the point is to win championships, then why on Earth would you choose to not play with arguably the 2nd best player on the planet in Wade, and another top 15 player in Bosh who also happens to be a Big?
If LBJ went to New York, or Chicago, or the Clippers I'd say he is more concerned about Ego than winning. But going to Miami, especially with this 'being THE MAN non-sense' being bandied about, proves to me that all he wants to do is win, and by winning he'll silence all the critics.
You win the game by having the best talent on the floor. To have superstars who can dominate at their positions. Chicago has a very good team, but they don't have an elite talent that is anywhere near as good as Wade. And while Boozer is a good PF, I'd take Bosh over him every time.
I think people forget that in the last two years LBJ (2nd & 4th) and Wade (3rd & 10th) have been in the top 10 for Defensive Player of the Year.
Bosh is certainly not a defensive juggernaut, but all the Heat have to do is find a defensive Post big-man and they'll be an elite defensive team. Any sort of defensive big-man, even one who is offensively retarded, can work with the scoring power of LBJ, Wade, and Bosh.
And the fact that those three no longer have to be the sole focus for offense will make them even better on the defensive end.
5.) Wade said after the Heat got knocked out in the 1st round against the Celtics, "Never Again." He decided that he was tired of losing. He was too good of a talent to be on a team that wasn't good enough to contend for a championship.
Bosh said during the play-offs, "Never Again." I'm not going to allow myself to be in a situation, where I'm on a bad team that can't even make the play-offs."
For some reason LBJ is treated differently. He isn't allowed to say "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." His actions shows that is what he is thinking, but people label him a coward for him following through on his mentality to win as many chamionships as possible while still in his prime.
6.) I keep seeing people saying things like 'Well, this certainly means that LBJ isn't in the same class as Kobe."
Are you serious?
If you switched Kobe with LBJ 3 years ago, the Lakers would have likely 3-peated, and the Cavs would certainly not have gotten as far as they have the last three years. LeBron is hands down the better player, and Kobe hands down plays on the more talented team.
If Kobe had been a FA the year he demanded a trade, he would have left LA.
The fact that he didn't have a choice and wasn't allowed to leave doesn't put him in a different class. The fact that he had one of the most dominant players of all time to help him to win 3 rings early in his career doesn't put him in a different class than LeBron.
If LeBron had had Shaq as his center instead of Big Z, don't you think things might have gone differently for both him and the Cavaliers?
7.) Team USA is probably the most important aspect to all of this. Again, I live in Southern California, and while discussing possible locations for LBJ, I had to continually remind people of that USA team.
I watched all of those FIBA USA basketball games, summer after summer. Seeing LeBron, Wade, Melo all learning how to play with each other.
Charles Barkley said that he'd never do what LeBron just did, but think about it.
In years past, you always went against the other elite players as a competitor. You didn't train with them. You didn't play with them. The only thing you wanted to do is crush them.
But LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, they all played together, summer after summer. They trained with each other, worked with each other, and ultimately achieved victory with each other. All this was happening at a very young age with them, and I think those years spent on the USA team had a great deal to shape what has just happened.
These players, and especially LBJ and Wade, learned with-out a doubt that not only can they play with each other, but they can compete and win at the highest levels with each other.
If they'd never had the opportunity to play with each other, then yes, I'd agree that it might be risky of Miami and these players to make this move.
But that just isn't the case.
The fact is that they've given this a trial run, and it worked. They know that they can work together to win, and I think that is what is going to make this a successful venture for them.
Barkley, Jordan, Kobe...none of these guys had the comraderie experience, especially at a young age, that LBJ, Wade, and Bosh had, and so though they can claim that they'd never band together, they also never experienced the sort of bonding that these three young men have experienced through years of Team USA basketball.
8.) So ultimately, I think that LBJ made the right decision. He handled himself horribly, and it's going to be something that haunts him and his legacy. But if all he cares about is winning, then going to the Miami Heat was the best choice for him. He went to the team with the best talent, and he went to a team with a dedicated and smart Front-Office, and a potential coach in Pat Riley.
I do think that the Heat will be the favorites to win for the next few years, barring injury.
LBJ, Wade, and Bosh have all played together before. They've won together before. They want to follow the model set by the Celtics and play unselfish ball to win as many championships as they can, and I believe that they'll be very successful in doing so.
9.) I want to touch upon what this will mean for the Kings.
I can understand why Kings fans might be unhappy about these three impact players all signing with Miami. There is certainly a fear that the same thing could happen to us when the time comes.
But I don't believe that we'll see this play out with Tyreke and DeMarcus.
Tyreke seems to be a low-key guy, and Sacramento seems to suit him.
DeMarcus seems to be very pleased with how the fans have embraced him, and I think that fan loyalty and regional support is going to mean a great deal to him, considering the treatment he's received.
But the above reasons are not why I'm confident that we'll be ok. I'm confident because of the Durant signing. Durant signed an extension because he's on a team which can potentially be a championship contender. Durant knows this, and is willing to play for this team.
I think the same can be said of the Kings. If our young talent continues to improve then we'll definately be looking towards contending for a championship. And if Tyreke sees that to be the case, he'll re-sign with us. And if he re-signs with us, then DeMarcus will have incentive to do the same.
I'm very high on the potential of our team. What we are building is going to be far, far, far better than what either Cleveland or Toronto has done to assemble talent. And if we have that talent, then we'll be fine when it comes to re-signing Tyreke and DeMarcus.
I truly believe that we'll have a team built to compete against anyone in a few years, and that championship contention is a very, very real possibility.
10.) In the meantime, while our young team is developing talent and building chemistry, I'm personally going to have a lot of fun watching the Heat. And if the Heat make it to the Finals, and if the Lakers meet them there, I'm going to have a blast watching the Heat destroy the Lakers.
Because I live near L.A. I want to mention what I hear all the time from Laker fans. I've been told in no uncertain terms that with-in 3 years, as Kobe is winding down, that the Lakers will pick up LeBron. Because, why wouldn't LeBron want to play for the Lakers?
I was also told that Bosh was going to become a Laker this off-season. That the Lakers were going to offer Bynum, and Bosh would come running to the Lakers, and that the Raptors would be falling over themselves to have a chance to pick up such a great player in Bynum.
It's hard being a die-hard Kings fan in L.A.
When you have fans who just expect great players to jump into their laps.
So both LBJ and Bosh joined up with Wade in Miami. If they do play L.A. in the finals I hope that they obliterate the Lakers. It will be fun to see what Kobe does when he realizes he's stuck on a team that doesn't have a shot of winning him his 6th ring.
1.) First of all, he did not handle himself appropriately. When I heard about the 1 hour special my immediate reaction was that he was going to stay with the Cavs, as to do anything else would be utterly devastating to that region. You could tell during the interview that he realized this was a really, really bad idea. It was a slap to the face of that region, and I'm certain something which he'll regret for the rest of his life.
2.) The ONLY reason for him to stay in Cleveland was because it is his hometown. Had he been born and raised anywhere else it would be a foregone conclusion that he'd leave.
No-one doubted for a second that Bosh would leave. Bosh had no feelings of regional loyalty to make the decision difficult for him. The Raptors as they are assembled cannot compete for a championship. The exact same thing can be said of Cleveland.
The major question for him was simple: Which is more important: winning or being loyal to your region.
I've been saying for the last 2 years that there wasn't a single player on the Cavs outside of LBJ that I'd want on my team. And my Kings team has had the worst and 3rd worst records in the league over that two year span.
As soon as the words 'wanting to win' came out of LBJ's mouth, I knew he was leaving Cleveland, because winning it all is the last thing which would happen there. The talent just isn't there.
3.) LeBron is the best basketball player on the planet. But do you know what I hear all the time living in Southern California? I hear, "He 'might' be the best, but it doesn't mean anything because he hasn't won anything. He'll never be considered great unless he can win multiple championships."
This perception of having to win multiple chamionships, this criticism of his game, this is what drove him to leave Cleveland. The Cavs were only good because of LBJ, and the FO failed miserably in assembling the talent necessary to help compete realistically for a championship.
What is the point in being the best on the planet if people invalidate your skills because your FO is incapable of doing what needs to be done to achieve ultimate success?
So if he wanted to win, if he wanted people to stop marginalizing his skills then the only way to do that would be to leave Cleveland and head to a destination where the FO could assemble the other necessary pieces to be legitimate championship contenders.
4.) So he wants to win. If I were him, I'd want to win too. And I'd want to win championships, because that is where he is roundly criticized for failing to do.
So he knows he can't win in Cleveland, and he has to make a choice on where to go.
Here is where I get really confused by some people's positions. People say that he is going to Miami to 'ride Wade's coattails'. People say that by going to Miami he forfeits being THE MAN, and that will damage his legacy.
Here is what I think. I think that if I've been in LBJ's position for 7 years, all I've wanted is to play with other elite basketball players. I want to play with teammates who can win a game if I'm having a bad game.
If the point is to win the game. If the point is to win championships, then why on Earth would you choose to not play with arguably the 2nd best player on the planet in Wade, and another top 15 player in Bosh who also happens to be a Big?
If LBJ went to New York, or Chicago, or the Clippers I'd say he is more concerned about Ego than winning. But going to Miami, especially with this 'being THE MAN non-sense' being bandied about, proves to me that all he wants to do is win, and by winning he'll silence all the critics.
You win the game by having the best talent on the floor. To have superstars who can dominate at their positions. Chicago has a very good team, but they don't have an elite talent that is anywhere near as good as Wade. And while Boozer is a good PF, I'd take Bosh over him every time.
I think people forget that in the last two years LBJ (2nd & 4th) and Wade (3rd & 10th) have been in the top 10 for Defensive Player of the Year.
Bosh is certainly not a defensive juggernaut, but all the Heat have to do is find a defensive Post big-man and they'll be an elite defensive team. Any sort of defensive big-man, even one who is offensively retarded, can work with the scoring power of LBJ, Wade, and Bosh.
And the fact that those three no longer have to be the sole focus for offense will make them even better on the defensive end.
5.) Wade said after the Heat got knocked out in the 1st round against the Celtics, "Never Again." He decided that he was tired of losing. He was too good of a talent to be on a team that wasn't good enough to contend for a championship.
Bosh said during the play-offs, "Never Again." I'm not going to allow myself to be in a situation, where I'm on a bad team that can't even make the play-offs."
For some reason LBJ is treated differently. He isn't allowed to say "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." His actions shows that is what he is thinking, but people label him a coward for him following through on his mentality to win as many chamionships as possible while still in his prime.
6.) I keep seeing people saying things like 'Well, this certainly means that LBJ isn't in the same class as Kobe."
Are you serious?
If you switched Kobe with LBJ 3 years ago, the Lakers would have likely 3-peated, and the Cavs would certainly not have gotten as far as they have the last three years. LeBron is hands down the better player, and Kobe hands down plays on the more talented team.
If Kobe had been a FA the year he demanded a trade, he would have left LA.
The fact that he didn't have a choice and wasn't allowed to leave doesn't put him in a different class. The fact that he had one of the most dominant players of all time to help him to win 3 rings early in his career doesn't put him in a different class than LeBron.
If LeBron had had Shaq as his center instead of Big Z, don't you think things might have gone differently for both him and the Cavaliers?
7.) Team USA is probably the most important aspect to all of this. Again, I live in Southern California, and while discussing possible locations for LBJ, I had to continually remind people of that USA team.
I watched all of those FIBA USA basketball games, summer after summer. Seeing LeBron, Wade, Melo all learning how to play with each other.
Charles Barkley said that he'd never do what LeBron just did, but think about it.
In years past, you always went against the other elite players as a competitor. You didn't train with them. You didn't play with them. The only thing you wanted to do is crush them.
But LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, they all played together, summer after summer. They trained with each other, worked with each other, and ultimately achieved victory with each other. All this was happening at a very young age with them, and I think those years spent on the USA team had a great deal to shape what has just happened.
These players, and especially LBJ and Wade, learned with-out a doubt that not only can they play with each other, but they can compete and win at the highest levels with each other.
If they'd never had the opportunity to play with each other, then yes, I'd agree that it might be risky of Miami and these players to make this move.
But that just isn't the case.
The fact is that they've given this a trial run, and it worked. They know that they can work together to win, and I think that is what is going to make this a successful venture for them.
Barkley, Jordan, Kobe...none of these guys had the comraderie experience, especially at a young age, that LBJ, Wade, and Bosh had, and so though they can claim that they'd never band together, they also never experienced the sort of bonding that these three young men have experienced through years of Team USA basketball.
8.) So ultimately, I think that LBJ made the right decision. He handled himself horribly, and it's going to be something that haunts him and his legacy. But if all he cares about is winning, then going to the Miami Heat was the best choice for him. He went to the team with the best talent, and he went to a team with a dedicated and smart Front-Office, and a potential coach in Pat Riley.
I do think that the Heat will be the favorites to win for the next few years, barring injury.
LBJ, Wade, and Bosh have all played together before. They've won together before. They want to follow the model set by the Celtics and play unselfish ball to win as many championships as they can, and I believe that they'll be very successful in doing so.
9.) I want to touch upon what this will mean for the Kings.
I can understand why Kings fans might be unhappy about these three impact players all signing with Miami. There is certainly a fear that the same thing could happen to us when the time comes.
But I don't believe that we'll see this play out with Tyreke and DeMarcus.
Tyreke seems to be a low-key guy, and Sacramento seems to suit him.
DeMarcus seems to be very pleased with how the fans have embraced him, and I think that fan loyalty and regional support is going to mean a great deal to him, considering the treatment he's received.
But the above reasons are not why I'm confident that we'll be ok. I'm confident because of the Durant signing. Durant signed an extension because he's on a team which can potentially be a championship contender. Durant knows this, and is willing to play for this team.
I think the same can be said of the Kings. If our young talent continues to improve then we'll definately be looking towards contending for a championship. And if Tyreke sees that to be the case, he'll re-sign with us. And if he re-signs with us, then DeMarcus will have incentive to do the same.
I'm very high on the potential of our team. What we are building is going to be far, far, far better than what either Cleveland or Toronto has done to assemble talent. And if we have that talent, then we'll be fine when it comes to re-signing Tyreke and DeMarcus.
I truly believe that we'll have a team built to compete against anyone in a few years, and that championship contention is a very, very real possibility.
10.) In the meantime, while our young team is developing talent and building chemistry, I'm personally going to have a lot of fun watching the Heat. And if the Heat make it to the Finals, and if the Lakers meet them there, I'm going to have a blast watching the Heat destroy the Lakers.
Because I live near L.A. I want to mention what I hear all the time from Laker fans. I've been told in no uncertain terms that with-in 3 years, as Kobe is winding down, that the Lakers will pick up LeBron. Because, why wouldn't LeBron want to play for the Lakers?
I was also told that Bosh was going to become a Laker this off-season. That the Lakers were going to offer Bynum, and Bosh would come running to the Lakers, and that the Raptors would be falling over themselves to have a chance to pick up such a great player in Bynum.
It's hard being a die-hard Kings fan in L.A.
When you have fans who just expect great players to jump into their laps.
So both LBJ and Bosh joined up with Wade in Miami. If they do play L.A. in the finals I hope that they obliterate the Lakers. It will be fun to see what Kobe does when he realizes he's stuck on a team that doesn't have a shot of winning him his 6th ring.
steelevt
All-Star
wow you hit just said everything that i've thought about this whole situation and saved me the time of writing a long a** post. totally agree with all of your points. but im sure there are those that disagree with us
UKRAINE
G-League
Great post, Uncia03!!
And, Bricklayer, it is so easy to judge other people and tell them what to do, ask them to sacrifice their dreams and goals .. BECAUSE it is not your life. We are so good at it.
He didn't betray his family, his GF, his kids, he didn't walk away from his contract or ask to be traded, he didn't offend or betray anybody in Cleveland, he put that franchise on the NBA map again, he brought sell-outs to a permanently half-empty arena and excitement about NBA to the area. However, it does not mean to he OWES people something. He gave them 7 years, he tried to win the big thing there, and he realized that it is probably impossible to win with this franchise. How many great/very good players were signed by Cleveland management to help LeBron? Blame those guys if you want to blame someone.
And, Bricklayer, it is so easy to judge other people and tell them what to do, ask them to sacrifice their dreams and goals .. BECAUSE it is not your life. We are so good at it.
He didn't betray his family, his GF, his kids, he didn't walk away from his contract or ask to be traded, he didn't offend or betray anybody in Cleveland, he put that franchise on the NBA map again, he brought sell-outs to a permanently half-empty arena and excitement about NBA to the area. However, it does not mean to he OWES people something. He gave them 7 years, he tried to win the big thing there, and he realized that it is probably impossible to win with this franchise. How many great/very good players were signed by Cleveland management to help LeBron? Blame those guys if you want to blame someone.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I don't buy that LeBron had nothing to do with the Cavs failing to win a championship. The Cavs were the favorites to come out of the East the last two seasons and they failed to do it, and then once they failed, all of the sudden it's about a lack of a supporting cast. Sure he has all the talent in the world and he's a great individual player and stat stuffer, but him going to Miami is proof that he doesn't believe in his ability to lead a team to a championship. He's now behind Wade's coattails and he's going to hide behind him when the real challenges come. LeBron is a chicken that shies away from challenges and that's why he walked away and didn't talk to the media after he lost to the Magic two years ago, the dude can pump himself up and act like he's the god of basketball, but when he actually has to face the music when he doesn't live up to the hype he creates for himself, he runs away. He'll never be the winner or competitor that Kobe, Bird, Jordan, and Magic were/are.
If he had went to Chicago or New York, that would've been different because he would've been the undisputed number 1 of those teams, and with Chicago I think he would have an even a better supporting cast than he does with the Heat. He's going to the Heat though because he's afraid to be the man that answers for the team's failures. He's afraid of criticism and he's afraid of failure. He has all-time great talent, but he is not an all-time great competitor.
You may think my standards are too high or too harsh, but you don't get to have Jordan glory when you only accept Pippen accountability.
If he had went to Chicago or New York, that would've been different because he would've been the undisputed number 1 of those teams, and with Chicago I think he would have an even a better supporting cast than he does with the Heat. He's going to the Heat though because he's afraid to be the man that answers for the team's failures. He's afraid of criticism and he's afraid of failure. He has all-time great talent, but he is not an all-time great competitor.
You may think my standards are too high or too harsh, but you don't get to have Jordan glory when you only accept Pippen accountability.
And thank you, because you saved me from having to make yet another post repeating the same thing over and over again. Your first two sentences sum up how I feel.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
OMFGWTFBBQ!!! that was excellent!
UKRAINE
G-League
Hate blinds you. It was not "all of the sudden". It was always obvious that the supporting cast was not good enough. The only reason people thought (I was not one of them) that they had a chance was because LeBron is a true dominant player. You do not build championship teams with average tweeners. That's why Orlando is a contender with no chance to win everything (IMHO).
LeBron could have gone to Chicago or New York, or New Jersey but he decided to go to Miami. You think he made this decision because he is afraid or a chicken. How do you know? Who the hell are you? NBA insider? Member of his PR or marketing team? Close friend? Who?
May be he thinks that Maiami is the place for him and his family to be, may be he wants to play with his friend Wade and it is more fun for him, may be he thinks that winning 5-6 championships is more important to him than winning 1 or 2 with a team where he is the man of the men (and BTW, he still will be the man and the best player of that team). We do not know. You call him a chicken and act like you definitely know. You do not know what he thinks and what was the main reason. YOU DO NOT KNOW. It is just pathetic.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Why is that hate can blind me, but whatever love affair you have with LeBron doesn't blind you? If you're going to play that game, at least don't come off like such a hardcore apologist.
I don't know exactly who you are referring to but I paid attention to what the media was saying, and by large part they were expecting/predicting LeBron to come out of the East, and there were no "but to do that he has to compensate for his crappy supporting cast." People whined about Kobe whining about not having a supporting cast and the Lakers were a 7th seed team at the time. The Cavs have had the best record in the NBA the last two seasons and they failed to come out of the East both times, and all LeBron gets are excuses.
That's why what I said was my opinion, based on what I've observed about LeBron's behavior, I never claimed it was provable fact. That was a seriously lame deflection, dude.
And he won't be the man on the Heat. That is Wade's team and that is not going to change. He led them to a championship and was finals MVP, he is the man there.
steelevt
All-Star
this same back and forth arguement is getting tiresome. we say "he had a poor supporting cast in cleveland, thats why he didnt win it all." you say "it wasnt the fault of the supporting cast, he should have won it with them." so in order to prove that it was the fault of the lack of supporting cast, he joins a team with great players...and you call him a chicken? theres just no winning. if he continues to play with cleveland and possibly never wins a ring, everyone will say he will never be as good as MJ cuz he doesnt have a ring. or if he goes to a team with a really good chance to win a ring, and if he does, he will never be as good as MJ, he couldnt do it by himself (which many argue MJ didnt do it by himself).
Rookie
Starter
That's right..if he can't do it as being the man on the team then he can't be compare to MJ. And if he joined another superduper star to get his ring, he also can't be compare to the elitist of the past who have carried their team. (Understood about a good supporting cast..noone is questioning that a superstar require a good supporting cast to win)
You assumed he can't get it done in Cleveland....I thought he could. Now we will never know because he gave up on that opportunity. At least Chicago would of been still his kingdom if he went with Boozer/Rose as the Generals (very good supporting cast and definitely would be a contending team with him). If he can get a few rings there then he could be compare to the like of MJ and elitist of the past. But instead he went to Wade's kingdom to become a General (or at best share the throne).
In the end, I thought he was better than that and was a champion at heart...I was wrong. Champion doesn't give up when the going get tough. Maybe I have more expectation of him than some of you..../shrug.
You assumed he can't get it done in Cleveland....I thought he could. Now we will never know because he gave up on that opportunity. At least Chicago would of been still his kingdom if he went with Boozer/Rose as the Generals (very good supporting cast and definitely would be a contending team with him). If he can get a few rings there then he could be compare to the like of MJ and elitist of the past. But instead he went to Wade's kingdom to become a General (or at best share the throne).
In the end, I thought he was better than that and was a champion at heart...I was wrong. Champion doesn't give up when the going get tough. Maybe I have more expectation of him than some of you..../shrug.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
Actually that's not what I said.
I don't think the way the Cavs were built is a reliable recipe in the playoffs, but my point is LeBron is not blameless for the Cavs' playoff failures because the fact remains that they were the top seed in the NBA for the last two years, he was the undisputed no. 1 on that team, and they failed to even make it to the finals. Do I think he had the ideal supporting cast for the playoffs? No, but it was more than good enough to win in the regular season and even though I think the postseason and regular season are different, they're not that different. If they can dominate the regular season and then not even get to the conference finals, then there's definitely something wrong with the player that's supposed to be the man to take them there.
You're totally misrepresenting my argument. I'm not blaming him for going to a team with greater talent, I even said that I would've totally respected his decision to go to the Bulls or Knicks, if he did it in a respectful manner to the Cavs. If I were him I wouldn't have gone back to the Cavs, but I also wouldn't have left them in such an insulting and inconsiderate manner. Him going to Miami says to me that he's hiding behind Wade's coattails as a glorified #2. If he went to the Bulls, he would've had a great supporting cast (a deeper one than Miami's) and he would've been the top dog there.
What would have greatly impressed me is if he went to the Clippers. They have Kaman, Griffin, Gordon, and Davis. That's a nice supporting cast that he would've fit pretty well into, and he'd be taking on the challenge of resurrecting the Clippers from under the Lakers (and Kobe's) shadow.
I don't think the way the Cavs were built is a reliable recipe in the playoffs, but my point is LeBron is not blameless for the Cavs' playoff failures because the fact remains that they were the top seed in the NBA for the last two years, he was the undisputed no. 1 on that team, and they failed to even make it to the finals. Do I think he had the ideal supporting cast for the playoffs? No, but it was more than good enough to win in the regular season and even though I think the postseason and regular season are different, they're not that different. If they can dominate the regular season and then not even get to the conference finals, then there's definitely something wrong with the player that's supposed to be the man to take them there.
You're totally misrepresenting my argument. I'm not blaming him for going to a team with greater talent, I even said that I would've totally respected his decision to go to the Bulls or Knicks, if he did it in a respectful manner to the Cavs. If I were him I wouldn't have gone back to the Cavs, but I also wouldn't have left them in such an insulting and inconsiderate manner. Him going to Miami says to me that he's hiding behind Wade's coattails as a glorified #2. If he went to the Bulls, he would've had a great supporting cast (a deeper one than Miami's) and he would've been the top dog there.
What would have greatly impressed me is if he went to the Clippers. They have Kaman, Griffin, Gordon, and Davis. That's a nice supporting cast that he would've fit pretty well into, and he'd be taking on the challenge of resurrecting the Clippers from under the Lakers (and Kobe's) shadow.
The interesting thing is that if this was later in his career, I don't think people look down upon him for going to be with other stars. A lot of stars(Iverson?) never learn to handle transitioning into a team player in order to get wins. The choice Lebron made is applauded if he does it later in his career, but right now the American culture expects stars to carry their team. They expect Lebron to be #1 and ask for a better #2 on his team. In that sense, Chicago and NY are moves that get less hate. Lebron is just skipping that whole period of his career and going for wins now.
In a basketball sense, it is admirable to be willing to be the cog around other stars. From a competitive standpoint, it just feels like today's NBA brotherhood is too friendly. Lebron's decision has sparked a wave of conversation about whether or not a killer instinct is missing from the new young stars. There is no "I respect you, but want to beat you." It's more like "Man, why do we play with these scrubs when we could play together?"
In a basketball sense, it is admirable to be willing to be the cog around other stars. From a competitive standpoint, it just feels like today's NBA brotherhood is too friendly. Lebron's decision has sparked a wave of conversation about whether or not a killer instinct is missing from the new young stars. There is no "I respect you, but want to beat you." It's more like "Man, why do we play with these scrubs when we could play together?"
Telemachus
Starter
steelevt
All-Star
if this was meant for me i apologize. i didnt quote you, hoping you didnt think my reply was directed only towards you. but many disregard the argument of james not having a supporting cast. and after reading your post, it reminded me of their posts. as to you quote though, you said so yourself the playoffs are different. you can rack up wins in the regular season just going through the motions when you play teams like the nets, knicks, and so forth. in the playoffs, the lack of good players only take you so far. something james probably understands now. he is not blameless for not taking them all the way, but with better players, it probably wouldnt even be a topic. as for how he treated the cavs/cavs fans. i totally agree with you. he did it in a horrible manner.
where he could have gone...everyone has different opinions. i think if he went to chi...he definitely would have been in MJ's shadow forever. no matter what he did it would never be good enough to surpass jordan. it will ALWAYS be jordan's team. he probably knows that so he didnt choose them. i dont think anyone in their right minds would go to the knicks or clips. their front office is horrible and i doubt they would go anywhere. the clips seem to always have a good team, but never go anywhere. maybe they are cursed? back when kobe was thinking of leaving the lakers, i was praying that he would go to the clips and turn them around.
Chupacabra
Starter
Lebron absolutely made the right decision. Legacy and silly things like that are more for the fans. I think alot of pro basketball players just want to win games. Im quite happy that there is now a dream team out there to make little kids wearing kobe bryant jerseys cry.
You're kidding yourself if you think that the players themselves don't care about their legacies. And this does affect his legacy: it's to his credit that he cares enough about winning that he's willing to go and be a second banana, and if they win championships, then he'll be remembered as a great player, but he'll never be remembered as the GREATEST player, which he had the chance to be, until three days ago.
In fact, not only has he ensured that he'll never be thought of as the GOAT, but he's also ensured that, no matter how many championships he wins, he'll always have one less than Dwyane Wade.
In fact, not only has he ensured that he'll never be thought of as the GOAT, but he's also ensured that, no matter how many championships he wins, he'll always have one less than Dwyane Wade.
