Derrick Williams available?

[hrdboild]

I know not everyone here is a fan, but in light of reports that Derrick Williams is unhappy in Minnesota, and his lack of playing time, it looks like he might be considered expendable right now. The way AK-47 is playing, you have to figure he'll be back next season so it looks like Pekovic/Love/Kirilenko/Rubio is their core. They have obvious needs at SG and backup big. We have, well, we're all familiar with our many problems. I hate making these trade scenarios, but throwing out acquiring Williams as an idea without finding a feasible way how doesn't seem all that useful either, so I'll give it a go.

Sacramento Trades:
Marcus Thornton (signed for 2 more seasons)
Jason Thompson (signed for 4 more seasons)

Minnesota Trades:
Derrick Williams (signed for 1 more season + team option)
Luke Ridnour (signed for 1 more season)
Greg Steimsma (team option)


Now at first glance, this might look bad for us. Ridnour and Steimsma are throw-ins, Williams hasn't been all that productive so far, and Thornton and Thompson are both key contributors for us. However, we've been locked into mediocrity for a long time now and I don't think either Thompson or Thornton are going to pull us out of it. Williams is potentially the best player in this trade. He can play either forward position, but he'd start at SF. Let me go through my thinking though for both teams...

For Minnesota -- Ridnour is going to lose his starting job to Rubio pretty soon and they already have Barea signed as a backup and Alexey Shved who's been one of the breakout stars for them this season. I think Ridnour is the expendable one, though the trade still works with JJ Barea instead. Meanwhile Brandon Roy is permanently injured (no surprise there) and Malcolm Lee hasn't been giving them much in his minutes. Stiemsma is no big loss. Thompson gives them a legit backup big who's a relative bargain for the next 4 years. Thornton gives them scoring in their backcourt -- which will be even more of an issue once Rubio takes over. So that's two productive players with decent contracts to provide some roster stability.

For Sacramento -- The goal obviously is to acquire a young talented forward who can fit into our starting lineup and give us a different dimension offensively. The secondary goal is to shake up the roster and try to create more of a clear path forward. So with that in mind, Williams at SF is an offensive threat who can score in the post and space the floor. Defensively he needs some coaching, but he's at least going to bring rebounding and the occasional blocked shot. He's not the defensive role-player at SF we've all been calling for, but he replaces Thornton as our third option and fits in better alongside Cousins and Evans.

The real problem for us is that this opens up a hole in our frontcourt. Thompson has been a steadying influence alongside the erratic play of Cousins and Robinson, but long-term he's more of a luxury than a necessity and we're going nowhere with our current roster. Hayes takes his place in the starting lineup for now with Robinson hopefully ready to takeover next season. We're seriously undersized at that point, so the priority would be to find a new backup big to replace Thompson. We can't trade our draft pick anyway because of the Hickson deal, so that's one option. Steimsma gets reserve minutes as a backup C for this season (which, honestly, probably doesn't matter anyway) and we look to replace him in the off-season. So this is one depth chart...

Ridnour / Brooks / Fredette
Evans / Salmons / Fredette
Williams / Salmons / Johnson
Hayes / Robinson / Wiliams
Cousins / Hayes / Steimsma

or perhaps...

Evans (Ridnour/Brooks/Fredette)
Salmons
Williams (Johnson)
Robinson
Cousins (Hayes)

Ridnour and Steimsma are short-term plug ins, not long-term solutions. Steimsma and Brooks probably wouldn't be back next season. We might try to re-sign Johnson as a backup SF or find someone else to fill that role. The new core is Evans/Williams/Robinson/Cousins. That's a young core who could potentially do some damage. We'd still have to figure out the other guard position, with Fredette and Salmons as possible in-house options. I don't know that this is our best solution for improving the team, but it's something. It's a lot to give up, but it actually clears up some long-term roster flexibility for us and I really believe in Williams' talent. Minnesota is going to need a lot of enticement to give up on Williams so quickly. I don't know if Thornton and Thompson are enough to do it, but they're not getting Evans or Cousins and we can't trade our pick, so that's the best we can do.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Too risky. It's 50/50 that Williams will ever become better than Jason Thompson is right now. We already have a similar project in Thomas Robinson. I'm not willing to just give away MT, either.

I don't like what I have seen out of Williams.

 

[Bricklayer]

Problme is I think Williams is a flop. Another failed tweener forward. Shocker. I actually value Jason Thompson much more highly than him. JT knows how to play a role and has a position.

 

[hrdboild]

Well, it really comes down to how much value you assign to Williams, Thornton, and Thompson. I wouldn't miss Thornton at this point. I would miss Thompson, but I think he's maxed out as a decent big with a frustrating tendency to make stupid mistakes with the game on the line. But I certainly understand why people are hesitant about picking up Williams right now. If he were living up to the hype he'd be untouchable. I don't think his per36 numbers are that bad, he just hasn't had much of an opportunity to prove himself yet. We all know Adelman is consistent about leaving talented but raw rookies on the bench. People have been telling me I was wrong about Evan Turner for two years, and look what he's doing this season?

Not trying to discount anyone else's opinions. Talent is highly subjective. My reasoning though is that a shot at forward momentum and taking a chance on a unique talent is better than remaining stuck in the mud. If you don't take a chance you're never going to know right?

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, it really comes down to how much value you assign to Williams, Thornton, and Thompson. I wouldn't miss Thornton at this point. I would miss Thompson, but I think he's maxed out as a decent big with a frustrating tendency to make stupid mistakes with the game on the line. But I certainly understand why people are hesitant about picking up Williams right now. If he were living up to the hype he'd be untouchable. I don't think his per36 numbers are that bad, he just hasn't had much of an opportunity to prove himself yet. We all know Adelman is consistent about leaving talented but raw rookies on the bench. People have been telling me I was wrong about Evan Turner for two years, and look what he's doing this season?

Not trying to discount anyone else's opinions. Talent is highly subjective. My reasoning though is that a shot at forward momentum and taking a chance on a unique talent is better than remaining stuck in the mud. If you don't take a chance you're never going to know right?

I understand the appeal of former #2 pick! Look at the talent! But is it there? If we keep on taking chances and knock one of the few pillars of solid play out of the team for another young clueless mess trying to prove himself and with no idea, or the size, to play a role, we'll have no chance at all. For us right now I think solid roleplayers are much more valuable than 2nd rate Beasleys. But of course again it comes down to the read on Williams. I didn't like him out of college. Still think he's deluded with an ego writing checks he has little chance to cash. He's just not a good PF or a good SF. Now maybe that's wrong, but personally I'm not willing to blow out multiple strong pieces to find out.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm not opposed to giving Derrick Williams a shot (despite the Kings' recent troubles in developing talent...and he certainly needs development), but not at the cost of JT or MT, much less both. JT, while imperfect, is a solid minutes option at both PF and C and has a reasonable contract. MT is a very good offensive player, and we can get a lot more for him than a Derrick Williams.

I'm of the opinion that JT/MT is the kind of offer you dangle for a guy like Granger (if he's not hurt) - known talent at a position of need, big contract, but in danger of being supplanted by Paul George. If Minny is really going to have a fire sale on Derrick Williams, my offer starts with Garcia's expiring. It would be a tough pill to swallow to take on any more salary than that seeing as Williams isn't very cheap (for his current level of production).

 

[Bricklayer]

If Minny is really going to have a fire sale on Derrick Williams, my offer starts with Garcia's expiring. It would be a tough pill to swallow to take on any more salary than that seeing as Williams isn't very cheap (for his current level of production).

Well...now much as I am not a Williams believer, I do have to beleive they'll get a little better offer than that from somebody.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well...now much as I am not a Williams believer, I do have to beleive they'll get a little better offer than that from somebody.

And they can take it!

 

[bajaden]

Well, it really comes down to how much value you assign to Williams, Thornton, and Thompson. I wouldn't miss Thornton at this point. I would miss Thompson, but I think he's maxed out as a decent big with a frustrating tendency to make stupid mistakes with the game on the line. But I certainly understand why people are hesitant about picking up Williams right now. If he were living up to the hype he'd be untouchable. I don't think his per36 numbers are that bad, he just hasn't had much of an opportunity to prove himself yet. We all know Adelman is consistent about leaving talented but raw rookies on the bench. People have been telling me I was wrong about Evan Turner for two years, and look what he's doing this season?

Not trying to discount anyone else's opinions. Talent is highly subjective. My reasoning though is that a shot at forward momentum and taking a chance on a unique talent is better than remaining stuck in the mud. If you don't take a chance you're never going to know right?

I certainly wasn't one of those that didn't like Turner. He was one of my favorite players at Ohio St, and I had and still have no doubts about him. I do however have a couple of doubts about Williams, and because of those doubts, I'm not about to give up our starting PF, and our first player off the bench. You said yourself, that Williams value is diminished, so why put so high a price tag on him. I wouldn't mind having Williams and seeing if he develops, but not at a high price.

I'd be willing to inquire about Williams and see what they want for him, but thats about the extent of it. I, like you, am not that high on Thornton. SG's are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Unless they happened to be named Wade or Kobe. Thornton is at times, a nonselective chucker. Sometimes at the wrong time, he gets a case of tunnel vision. So I could part with him, but I think he's too much for Williams. Now if their willing to throw in Ridnour along with Williams for Thornton, and maybe IT, then I'd consider it. I happen to like Ridnour more than others. He's a smart player who can shoot the rock, as well as get a few assists.

 

[bajaden]

I understand the appeal of former #2 pick! Look at the talent! But is it there? If we keep on taking chances and knock one of the few pillars of solid play out of the team for another young clueless mess trying to prove himself and with no idea, or the size, to play a role, we'll have no chance at all. For us right now I think solid roleplayers are much more valuable than 2nd rate Beasleys. But of course again it comes down to the read on Williams. I didn't like him out of college. Still think he's deluded with an ego writing checks he has little chance to cash. He's just not a good PF or a good SF. Now maybe that's wrong, but personally I'm not willing to blow out multiple strong pieces to find out.

What you stated is the problem. Yes, he looked like a talent coming out of college, but even scouts had a few reservations about him. He wasn't a very highly touted player coming out of highschool. I believe he was ranked in the top 100, but somewhere around 78th or so. Not that it matters where your ranked. There has been quite a few players that weren't even in the top 100 that went on to be very good NBA players. However, it is a early measuring stick.

The truth is, he came out of nowhere for one great year at Arizona and he shot up the draft boards. He then went on to have a good tourament. But since being drafted, he's been less than stellar. If he had been a second round pick, I doubt there would be the criticism he's recieved. But being drafted that high, he's been a major disappointment.

For him to succeed I think he needs to be given a position, and left there. In college he shot the ball fine from the perimeter. My question was whether he had the ballhandling skills to play on the perimeter. So far, I'd say the answer is barely, if that. If he's to be a SF, then he needs to lose around 10 pounds and really work on his ballhandling. He's a good athlete, and should be a capable defender. The problem is, there's no guarantee he'll ever be good enough to be a starter.

Beasley is far more talented. But his head is screwed on backwards. Williams is a good character guy, but still very raw in some of the skills area. He's certainly worth taking a risk on, but for a very reasonable price.

 

[upinsmoke]

Not that I wouldn't trade JT but thats not a deal you even consider.

 

[hrdboild]

What you stated is the problem. Yes, he looked like a talent coming out of college, but even scouts had a few reservations about him. He wasn't a very highly touted player coming out of highschool. I believe he was ranked in the top 100, but somewhere around 78th or so. Not that it matters where your ranked. There has been quite a few players that weren't even in the top 100 that went on to be very good NBA players. However, it is a early measuring stick.

The truth is, he came out of nowhere for one great year at Arizona and he shot up the draft boards. He then went on to have a good tourament. But since being drafted, he's been less than stellar. If he had been a second round pick, I doubt there would be the criticism he's recieved. But being drafted that high, he's been a major disappointment.

For him to succeed I think he needs to be given a position, and left there. In college he shot the ball fine from the perimeter. My question was whether he had the ballhandling skills to play on the perimeter. So far, I'd say the answer is barely, if that. If he's to be a SF, then he needs to lose around 10 pounds and really work on his ballhandling. He's a good athlete, and should be a capable defender. The problem is, there's no guarantee he'll ever be good enough to be a starter.

Beasley is far more talented. But his head is screwed on backwards. Williams is a good character guy, but still very raw in some of the skills area. He's certainly worth taking a risk on, but for a very reasonable price.

Bajaden, you know I respect your opinion about college ball. I don't think it's fair to call Williams a one year wonder though. He came into Arizona almost as an afterthought because he'd commited to 'SC and the USC basketball program was falling apart, and he forced his way into the starting lineup as a freshman and ended up winning the freshman of the year award for the conference. His sophomore season he was arguably the best player in the country.

I don't expect this means much to anyone but me, but these were my favorite players from the past 7 drafts -- not revisionist history, these are the guys I loved pre-draft:

(2012) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
(2011) Derrick Williams
(2010) Evan Turner
(2009) Brandon Jennings
(2008) Russell Westbrook
(2007) Greg Oden
(2006) Rajon Rondo

I'm not saying those were the best players in each draft, just that I felt very strongly about all of them being stars in the NBA. Aside from Greg Oden, none of them has been a flop. Like I said, that means nothing to anyone else, but it does mean something to me.

As for why he's not lighting up the NBA yet, Minnesota seems to think he's better at PF and they already have one of the best in the league at that position. I think he's better at SF but he's a finisher not a shot creator. He's a much better 3pt shooter than he ever gets credit for and despite his ball handling deficiencies (predictable, sometimes out of control, doesn't have a left hand) he's got a very good first step and very good touch near the basket with either hand. But then our problem has not been a shortage of players who can create their own shot. We have the opposite problem -- everyone wants to isolate and break down their man. Throw a guy out there who can float on the perimeter, make spot up shots at a consistent clip, and cut to the basket and finish strong over the defense and suddenly a lot more of those passes turn into assists. He's wasted in Minnesota with their current roster.

 

[upinsmoke]

JT/MT seems like to high of a price to me. Dont get me wrong Williams is talented but i think we can get a little better return on those to. MT for Williams + cheap fillers and you got a deal.

 

[hrdboild]

Heh, this is why I hate making trade scenarios. My primary concern was that Marcus Thornton and Jason Thompson weren't enough to get Derrick Williams, even if he is out of favor at the moment. These guys have been around long enough that every scout in the league knows exactly what they are. The general consensus so far is that I'm crazy, but that's alright. Past history suggests if Kings fans mostly think it's a bad deal for us, than it might be plausible.

 

[The_Jamal]

I'm a big Derrick Williams fan as well. People can diminish his production thus far, but he hasn't gotten the opportunity to prove what he can do yet. Young players needs minutes and time to establish themselves in the league. That's difficult to do when you're stuck behind the best PF in the game and AK47.

I don't know if Williams would be the right target for us, but I think MT/JT are exactly the pieces we should be shopping around to get a quality player back.

 

[bajaden]

Bajaden, you know I respect your opinion about college ball. I don't think it's fair to call Williams a one year wonder though. He came into Arizona almost as an afterthought because he'd commited to 'SC and the USC basketball program was falling apart, and he forced his way into the starting lineup as a freshman and ended up winning the freshman of the year award for the conference. His sophomore season he was arguably the best player in the country.

I don't expect this means much to anyone but me, but these were my favorite players from the past 7 drafts -- not revisionist history, these are the guys I loved pre-draft:

(2012) Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
(2011) Derrick Williams
(2010) Evan Turner
(2009) Brandon Jennings
(2008) Russell Westbrook
(2007) Greg Oden
(2006) Rajon Rondo

I'm not saying those were the best players in each draft, just that I felt very strongly about all of them being stars in the NBA. Aside from Greg Oden, none of them has been a flop. Like I said, that means nothing to anyone else, but it does mean something to me.

As for why he's not lighting up the NBA yet, Minnesota seems to think he's better at PF and they already have one of the best in the league at that position. I think he's better at SF but he's a finisher not a shot creator. He's a much better 3pt shooter than he ever gets credit for and despite his ball handling deficiencies (predictable, sometimes out of control, doesn't have a left hand) he's got a very good first step and very good touch near the basket with either hand. But then our problem has not been a shortage of players who can create their own shot. We have the opposite problem -- everyone wants to isolate and break down their man. Throw a guy out there who can float on the perimeter, make spot up shots at a consistent clip, and cut to the basket and finish strong over the defense and suddenly a lot more of those passes turn into assists. He's wasted in Minnesota with their current roster.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on Williams by implying that he was a one year wonder. So let me clarify. What made Williams stand out his second year at Arizona, was his sudden ability to hit the 3 pt shot, when he shot somewhere over 50% from there, after shooting somewhere around 26% his previous year. Don't fool yourself here. If he had just been a 18 pt, 7 or 8 rebound a game player shooting 26% from the three, he wouldn't have been drafted nearly as high. It was his versitility that made everyone stand up and take notice. I don't mean to imply that I didn't like him. I did, but I also had my questions about him. The question then, and still is, what position does he play? Now the fact that there's no answer may not be his fault.

So to be fair, I agree that I don't think he's had a legit chance yet, and as you know, I'm reluctant to give up on a player too early, especially big men. The question isn't what you or I may think his potential is, the question is, what is his current worth on the trade market. I realize he was the second pick in the draft, but if he had been drafted this past season, he certainly wouldn't have been the second pick in the draft. He might not have been a lottery pick.

Its not my intent to demean him, but to keep prespective, and base my offer accordingly. Your list is pretty solid, and some of those players are on my list. Particulary Gilchrist and Turner. I defer on Jennings since I didn't get to see him play in college. Sadly, I would have taken Oden over Durant. Fortunately or unfortunately, the Kings drafted players that I wanted. Thompson, Evans, Cousins. Evans wasn't my first choice, but once my first choice wasn't possible, I had Evans as my second choice. Same thing with Gilchrist. Davis was my first choice, but there was no way we were going to get him, so Gilchrist was my second choice.

Harden was one of my favorites. In this past draft I had a lot of players that I really liked, so it was hard to pick one over the other if you put the rankings aside. I think there are a lot of potential stars in this past draft. It may take a couple of years and the right circumstance, but the cream always rises to the top. It still bugs me that we took Honeycutt over Parsons..

 

[Kingster]

I'd definitely make a call about Williams. I thought he was very talented when I saw him in college, and I don't think he's gotten any less talented. This is when you want to make a call to the GM - when a talented player is languishing on the bench not getting pt. Make a lowball offer. How about starting with offerring Jimmer for Williams.

 

[Prince_XY]

IMO, this will not make any considerable positive impact on the team and therefore a very poor trade proposal.

First, you are adding another midget tweener F in Derrick Williams, as if the undersized TRob is not enough to make this team too small at the front court. We all know coach Smart will play the midget Williams at PF most of the time. No doubt.

Do we really need to be this smaller even at front court and at the expense of Thompson who is our lone legit back-up center and legit PF?

Second, you are adding another mediocre PG in the process.

I think we don't need more PGs to take away playing time from Evans and Brooks at that position, as if the midget IT and the defensively challenged Jimmer are not enough of a problem. Ridnour will just add more confusion to the already confused brain of coach Smart. I actually want to eliminate unnecessary reserves (IT) at PG position, so we can play Salmons at PG position at times too. Salmons seems to play more inspired basketball at that position making the team play more like an NBA team.

If you want to eliminate MT in the Kings equation, I am fine with that. But don't ship him out just for the sake of shipping him out or moving pieces. That is how Petrie operated for so many years now and look where it lead us.

IMO, the Kings are way better as a team having MT and Thompson than having Williams, Ridnour, and Stiemsa.

 

[hrdboild]

IMO, this will not make any considerable positive impact on the team and therefore a very poor trade proposal.

First, you are adding another midget tweener F in Derrick Williams, as if the undersized TRob is not enough to make this team too small at the front court. We all know coach Smart will play the midget Williams at PF most of the time. No doubt.

Do we really need to be this smaller even at front court and at the expense of Thompson who is our lone legit back-up center and legit PF?

Second, you are adding another mediocre PG in the process.

I think we don't need more PGs to take away playing time from Evans and Brooks at that position, as if the midget IT and the defensively challenged Jimmer are not enough of a problem. Ridnour will just add more confusion to the already confused brain of coach Smart. I actually want to eliminate unnecessary reserves (IT) at PG position, so we can play Salmons at PG position at times too. Salmons seems to play more inspired basketball at that position making the team play more like an NBA team.

If you want to eliminate MT in the Kings equation, I am fine with that. But don't ship him out just for the sake of shipping him out or moving pieces. That is how Petrie operated for so many years now and look where it lead us.

IMO, the Kings are way better as a team having MT and Thompson than having Williams, Ridnour, and Stiemsa.

If you'd read my post, you would have seen that I wanted Derrick Williams to play SF not PF, a position at which he would be one of the biggest and strongest players in the league. He's listed at PF and sometimes plays there for Minnesota but he has a lot of perimeter oriented skills and said himself coming out of college that he preferred to play on the wing. When I saw him at Arizona I thought he was absolutely a starting SF in the NBA, who could play PF against small-ball lineups if need be. Secondly you would have seen that I only threw in Luke Ridnour to make the salaries match. The only other player on their roster who would fit would be JJ Barea, but he has a longer contract and I think Minnesota likes his scoring off the bench, particulalrly when Rubio returns since Rubio is a great facilitator but not much of a scorer. We're losing more in guaranteed production here, but we're getting the best player in the trade (IMO -- and the reason I made the proposal in the first place, obviously). The PG position is still a train wreck, but I can't fix all of this teams' problems in one trade. That wasn't the point of the post. Ridnour is arguably better than any of our current pseudo PGs anyway (in that he actually facilitates) and he's only got one more year on his contract so if he's useless, it doesn't matter, he'll be gone soon anyway.

The difficulty in formulating trades with our team is that we don't have a lot of assets that would be desirable to other teams. Cousins and Evans are off limits unless we're getting back some kind of star and our draft pick is still tied up in the Hickson trade. That leaves Thornton's declining production, Fredette and Robinson's potential, Thomas' rookie numbers, and Thompson's solid (though pricey -- mostly because of the length of the contract) production. This trade gets us a starting SF, removes some salary commitment in the near future when extensions would be kicking in for Cousins and Evans, and leaves us other assets to possibly use to replace Thompson's production. I initially tried to build the trade around Thornton and throw-ins but I couldn't see Minnesota making the deal. Thompson is at least a name that'll get someone's attention because he's got size and every team in the league needs more size. And ultimately I think trading a backup big for a starting SF with star potential is a win for us, but again it all depends on how much you believe in Derrick Williams.

PS -- Kevin Love is putting more pressure on David Kahn to get something done. I've got to think that makes it harder for him to be patient with Williams. I doubt we make the deal because Petrie is MIA as usual, but if they do trade Williams this season it will probably be a trade for established talent like this rather than more prospects.

 

[Prince_XY]

If you'd read my post, you would have seen that I wanted Derrick Williams to play SF not PF, a position at which he would be one of the biggest and strongest players in the league. He's listed at PF and sometimes plays there for Minnesota but he has a lot of perimeter oriented skills and said himself coming out of college that he preferred to play on the wing.

I've seen that. But maybe you forgot you are also including Thompson on this trade. If you lose Thompson, you lose your lone full-sized and solidly contributing PF and able back-up center. Without Thompson, we are almost guaranteed coach Smart will use Derrick Williams as another undersized PF. Also, I don't think Steimsma can contribute at the level Thompson is contributing to this team.

Secondly you would have seen that I only threw in Luke Ridnour to make the salaries match. .............................. Ridnour is arguably better than any of our current pseudo PGs anyway (in that he actually facilitates) and he's only got one more year on his contract so if he's useless, it doesn't matter, he'll be gone soon anyway.

IMO, this made your trade proposal even less palatable for me. It will add more mediocre PG option for coach Smart this season and he'll never figure out which amongst the PGs to play consistently.

In essence, I think you are inadvertantly going to make this team smaller. The roster will be more unbalanced (too many confusing PG options and scarce on solid contributing BIGs) - and all just because we want to get another unproven offensive SF whom we all know coach Smart will use as an undersized PF. To me, that seems like the typical poor Petrie trade.

 

[hrdboild]

I've seen that. But maybe you forgot you are also including Thompson on this trade. If you lose Thompson, you lose your lone full-sized and solidly contributing PF and able back-up center. Without Thompson, we are almost guaranteed coach Smart will use Derrick Williams as another undersized PF. Also, I don't think Steimsma can contribute at the level Thompson is contributing to this team.

IMO, this made your trade proposal even less palatable for me. It will add more mediocre PG option for coach Smart this season and he'll never figure out which amongst the PGs to play consistently.

In essence, I think you are inadvertantly going to make this team smaller. The roster will be more unbalanced (too many confusing PG options and scarce on solid contributing BIGs) - and all just because we want to get another unproven offensive SF whom we all know coach Smart will use as an undersized PF. To me, that seems like the typical poor Petrie trade.

Well first of all, Steimsma couldn't be any less relevant. He's filler, nothing else. The real deal here is Thompson and Thornton for Derrick Williams and a year of Luke Ridnour. We clear up some of our backcourt redundancy, get some scoring at the SF position, have a chance at getting significantly better if Williams improves at all, and no longer have $14 million in salary tied up in secondary players (who's roles are only going to decrease) for the next 2 years. Thompson is a big contributer this year -- when we're going nowhere. If Robinson is any good at all, he's going to take over the starting PF spot halfway through Thompson's contract.

As for the rest, both of those problems are related to Keith Smart. If the coach is going to misuse the roster, you fire the coach -- don't plan roster acquisitions around his mistakes. And again, this is one idea not the whole plan. I'm not the one who let Dalembert walk and then signed Chuck Hayes for more money. I'm not the one who cut Whiteside. We had size and we gave it all away. But Robinson, Cousins could work as a unit with a third big. Maybe you're thrilled with Thompson's 10 and 10 but I don't think he's a guy we need to have on our roster to be successful. Certainly we need size, but we need a SF even more just like we need a coherent backcourt rotation and we need to settle on two PGs and trade the rest. If you think Williams is a bust, that's one thing. But don't tell me we shouldn't make a deal for a possible third option, starting SF, developing young player because we can't afford to lose our backup C. That in a nutshell is why I'm upset with Petrie. Inaction gets you nowhere. The best part about this deal, for me, is that it fills our biggest hole and leaves us some pieces with which to make more deals. And make no mistake, more deals need to get done.

 

[upinsmoke]

3 team deal.

Minny trades: D Williams to Sac, Stiemsma to Cle

Sac trades: Unprotected pick to Cle and Garcia

Cle trades: varejao to minny

Thoughts?

 

[Bricklayer]

3 team deal.

Minny trades: D Williams to Sac, Stiemsma to Cle

Sac trades: Unprotected pick to Cle and Garcia

Cle trades: varejao to minny

Thoughts?

I have one: would any of us be so desperately trying to find ways to acqure a 6'8" tweener forward who is averaging 8.9pts 4.7rebs on 41% shooting, and did the same last year, if he was not named Derrick Williams and had not gotten hyped?

 

[hrdboild]

3 team deal.

Minny trades: D Williams to Sac, Stiemsma to Cle

Sac trades: Unprotected pick to Cle and Garcia

Cle trades: varejao to minny

Thoughts?

The only problem is we can't trade a pick right now because we already owe Cleveland a protected first from the (stupid) Hickson deal. That means it would have to be post-lottery at which point Garcia's contract is up so he can't be included. In principle a first round pick for Williams is the deal though -- and I think Minnesota would be lucky to get that much. That's probably what they're looking for, but personally I think we're better off shedding some salary and keeping the pick, though I might be swayed when I see what the lottery does for us. If Lowry got traded for a second round pick and throw-ins, there's no way Derrick Williams' value is that high right now, former #2 pick or no.

 

[Nighthawk1]

The only problem is we can't trade a pick right now because we already owe Cleveland a protected first from the (stupid) Hickson deal. That means it would have to be post-lottery at which point Garcia's contract is up so he can't be included. In principle a first round pick for Williams is the deal though -- and I think Minnesota would be lucky to get that much. That's probably what they're looking for, but personally I think we're better off shedding some salary and keeping the pick, though I might be swayed when I see what the lottery does for us. If Lowry got traded for a second round pick and throw-ins, there's no way Derrick Williams' value is that high right now, former #2 pick or no.

I think upinsmoke is suggesting we make the pick unprotected now. Personally I don't care much for DWilliams. Rather keep the pick protected at this point since we're stuck in perpetual lottery

 

[upinsmoke]

That's right Nighthawk1 thanks for clearing that up for me. BTW here is whats on tap regarding the draft. www.draftexpress.com So if you like Williams game or not i'm on board with unrestricting the pick to get a player back because our trade assests look down right sad right now.

 

[KingMilz]

We drafted T-Rob why would we want Derrick Williams its the same thing a undersized PF

 

[Bricklayer]

That's right Nighthawk1 thanks for clearing that up for me. BTW here is whats on tap regarding the draft. www.draftexpress.com So if you like Williams game or not i'm on board with unrestricting the pick to get a player back because our trade assests look down right sad right now.

Hey, on the general theory I am down. With the exception fo Andre Drummond, who was jsut too rare a beast, I was pretty much for trading both of our LAST two lottery picks. I am again for trading this one. my beleif has not changed that we hit our big scores back to back with Reke and Cousiuns, and that we shoul have turned our attention to surroudnign them with the best most stable guys we could, not continued going on annual fishing expeditions in the lottery. I am of that opinion again, althoguh of course somebody like Noel might end up tempting. In any case I certainly don't mind suggestions of using picks to rescue the situaion now, because this deep into a rebuild there is no way you should be thinking of moves that might pan out 4 years down the road. But Derrick Williams...a draft pick might be a better gamble.