Defending the Spurs

How do we defend the Spurs?


  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
#1
I think we're going about it all wrong. I just got through watching the game again, and my first impression was pretty accurate.

When you play the Spurs, or any other team with a dominant big man and talented perimeter players, what's the logic for defending them? Keep the big man contained, and make the perimeter players beat you, right? Well, Duncan had 11 points and 7 rebounds, and we lost by 40.

Consider this: In the 2004 Playoffs, Shaq averaged 21.5ppg, took 14 shots/game, and shot 59%. In the Finals, he averaged 27ppg, took 16 shots/game, and shot 67%.

In the 2004 Playoffs, Kobe averaged 24.5ppg, took 21 shots/game, and shot 41%. In the Finals, he averaged 22.6ppg, took 22.6 shots/game, and shot 38%. And just like Kobe's numbers went down, so did practically every other Laker's in that series.

The Pistons blueprint to beating the heavily favored Lakers in that series was simple: Let Shaq do his thing, but don't let Kobe or any other perimeter player get it going. It worked. Shaq had a great series compared to how he'd been playing in the Playoffs that year, and he probably would have put up more points had the Lakers not been getting beat so handily in 3 of those games. They still lost, because he had no help. The one game they did win, Kobe had a great game, the Lakers finished with 28 assists compared to an average of 18.75 in the four losses, and they shot 48% from the field.

I say we let Tim Duncan do his thing, let him average 30 and 15. Keep the ball out of Tony Parker's hands, and if he does get it, make sure he's well out of his comfort zone, and send double-teams at him often. Do the same to Ginobili. And when Nick van Exel and Michael Finley come in, do the same to them. Make Duncan dominate the series, bell to bell.

It's always been the rule with the Kings that we get beat by guards, not big men. It's always Steve Nash and Tony Parker and Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant and Nick van Exel and Michael Finley. Yeah, beating a Spurs team led by a two-time NBA MVP and three-time Finals MVP is gonna be rough, but we don't stand a chance with Parker running circles around our defense. I'd rather see us lose with Duncan going off than see the Spurs shoot 58% overall, 65% from deep, have 25 assists, and score 122 points.

I may be way off base, but I say make Duncan beat us. Let Kenny Thomas and Shareef Abdur-Rahim get ripped to shreds, and keep Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili from making the entire team look inept. Then maybe we'll be close in the fourth quarter, Timmy will run out of gas, the guards will be out of rhythm, and maybe we'll have a shot to steal the game away.

But if the plan is to keep Duncan contained and make the "role players" beat us, then we might as well not even show up for the next three games. Just forfeit, because 40 point losses aren't acceptable in the playoffs, whether you're outmanned or not.
 
#2
I think that Tony Parker really is the key. His penetration down the lane seemed to spark everything- if he didn't score himself, he could dish out to a wide open teammate for a 3 or easy basket. I think stopping Parker is the key.
 
#3
It's really difficult in defending the Spurs this year, simply because the team actually are talented enough as an offensive machine -unlike previous Spurs championship team in the past. Brick has often said in the past that the Spurs simply had to rely a lot in their D game, as their O game were inconsistent at best. That's not the case for this year team, as TP's turning into a consistent O threat, and the bench's packed with offensively gifted players -OLD players mostly though. ...................................... In my opinion, offensively, this yr Spurs are more diversified, they'll take what the opponent presented deensively, and adjust from there. TD's injury made him less dominant offensively in the reg season, especially in back to back. But since there's no B2B in postseason -mostly- and i believe he has just recently taken the steroid shot, he's actually in better shape compared to last year playoff, which was playing through out with 2 bum knee. For the Kings, i think Shareef has the better chance keeping TD in check.......................Manu is Manu, fearless, unorthodox, tough as nails (and a good disciple of Vlade ;)). Putting a guy with good awareness and willingness to chase him around is the best answer. Since he's such a streaky player, you don't want him get confidence in his long jumper by allowing easy layups or dunks early on. Sag on him a bit, if he decides to become a jumpshooter, that already take the best part of Manu game.............................Parker, once an enigmatic player offensively, now actually the most consistent guy throughout the reg season, arguably Spurs offensive MVP. His confidence is in alltime high. Simply knocking him around won't work, cause A LOT of teams already trying that to no avail, and the league is gonna watch the game closely considering the latest circumstance. Still, the proven recipe in bothering him defensively is by utilizing a long, quick, agile players as his defender. Perhaps Kevin Martin could be the answer ? He got posterized yesterday, but perhaps with a better planning ala what B Scott did with Kittles in 03 finals back then, it could work................................ To sum it all, i think your team D should be geared toward turning the Spurs into a jumpshooting team. Goodluck with that :)
 
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#4
Pistons had a great collection of good defensive bigmen in '04 playoff, that's why their game plan worked. Do the Kings have the likes of Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Elden Campbell in the roster ? Kobe's bad performance in that yr finals can be attributed to his tendency of shooting from outside too much, which is his defender strongest point defensively (wanna taste Prince's 7+ feet wingspan ?) and good help defense presented by the Wallace brothers.
 
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#6
The problem is that those "roleplayers" are star caliber players as well. Tony Parker and Ginobli are stars in their own right. I'm not implying they are uber stars ala Kobe, but they are very, very good players and great as role players too. They are the stars of all the roleplayers in the league, if that makes any sense. So there is not really any player on the Spurs that we can overlook, except for perhaps Bowen, but even he can nail the 3 when left unguarded. But I tend to agree with you Supes, in light of Duncan playing gingerly and precautiously, we should try to shut down evryone else, if at all possible. Then you have the Finely's and Van Exel's who you also have to worry about killing you off the bench. This is one tough team to beat, and it just got tougher without our DPOY.
 
#7
SpursIndonesia said:
Pistons had a great collection of good defensive bigmen in '04 playoff, that's why their game plan worked. Do the Kings have the likes of Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, and Elden Campbell in the roster ? Kobe's bad performance in that yr finals can be attributed to his tendency of shooting from outside too much, which is his defender strongest point defensively (wanna taste Prince's 7+ feet wingspan ?) and good help defense presented by the Wallace brothers.
The Pistons big men weren't blocking jumpshots. They were throwing double and triple teams at Kobe Bryant and Gary Payton and anyone else interested in penetrating. They turned the Lakers into a jumpshooting team, and let Shaq have the best series he'd had all year long. And it worked.

By the way, Tayshaun Prince didn't do anything anybody else hadn't done. Yes, his long wing span caused Kobe problems, but the biggest asset he had was defensive help to the left, help to the right, help behind him, and Kobe had nowhere to go. And another thing: we don't need to stop Kobe Bryant. We need to stop a collection of inferior perimeter players that our pee-poor defense allowed to look like Kobe Bryant.

I don't expect the Kings to be able to shut the Spurs down completely like the Pistons did that year; they had the best defensive team the League has seen since the '96 Bulls, maybe better. I just expect the Kings not to give up 73 points in the first half, and I think we need to do something drastically different than we did Saturday.
 
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#8
KingKong said:
The problem is that those "roleplayers" are star caliber players as well. Tony Parker and Ginobli are stars in their own right. I'm not implying they are uber stars ala Kobe, but they are very, very good players and great as role players too. They are the stars of all the roleplayers in the league, if that makes any sense. So there is not really any player on the Spurs that we can overlook, except for perhaps Bowen, but even he can nail the 3 when left unguarded. But I tend to agree with you Supes, in light of Duncan playing gingerly and precautiously, we should try to shut down evryone else, if at all possible. Then you have the Finely's and Van Exel's who you also have to worry about killing you off the bench. This is one tough team to beat, and it just got tougher without our DPOY.
I don't think we should overlook anyone, not even Bowen. I'm saying that because Parker and Ginobili are so good themselves -- and can beat us more ways than Duncan can -- that we concentrate on those players. And all the other players that can potentially shred our defense from the perimeter.

Don't let the role players beat us. Make Tim Duncan score 30-40 points, hold the role players to 40-50 points collectively, and then we have a nice 80-90 point game at the end of the fourth quarter, instead of giving up damn near that much in the first half alone.
 
#9
Man-to-man with defensive rotations and switches - gotta do it
Go ZONE when Spurs offense is open & spread-out (cut-off passing lanes & protect the paint).
Duncan will get his, so will Parker & Ginobili - make 'em do it from the outside.
Have an assigned player float the top anticipating outlets on Spurs defensive rebounds.

Just a few thoughts ... :cool:
 
#10
one thing about zone is it's easier to get rebounds. which is what we desperately need. i would make parker shoot the long 3 from the top of the key. running the zone bruce bowen can kill us from the corner. we have to pay more attention to him
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#14
First of all, big welcome back to Superman! I, for one, have missed his thought-provoking posts.



I voted for "better idea"... only because, I'm somewhat sorry to say, I do have another idea on how to play the Spurs. Unfortunately, it's vindictive and beneath even my own usual standards for our Kings, so I won't share it.

;)
 
#15
VF21 said:
First of all, big welcome back to Superman! I, for one, have missed his thought-provoking posts.



I voted for "better idea"... only because, I'm somewhat sorry to say, I do have another idea on how to play the Spurs. Unfortunately, it's vindictive and beneath even my own usual standards for our Kings, so I won't share it.

;)
Kidnap Eva? :)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
Oh please. Could we just avoid the obvious references to Tony Parker's girlfriend? Pretty much every single clever thing that could possibly be said has already been said ad nauseum...

No, as a matter of fact, my plan for defending the Spurs would rely on the fact that we have at least two players on the bench we almost never use. Each of those players is entitled to six fouls. I would make sure they used them ... judiciously.

;)
 
#19
I said let Duncan beat you. The last game surely tainted my vote but I saw enough of Parker. I think you stop the penetration and make him hit the outside shot or find the open man. The will not shot 68% again, make them shot from the perimeter and when they miss get the rebound!
 
#20
KevinMartinsGirl23 said:
I think that Tony Parker really is the key. His penetration down the lane seemed to spark everything- if he didn't score himself, he could dish out to a wide open teammate for a 3 or easy basket. I think stopping Parker is the key.
agreed
 
#21
VF21 said:
Oh please. Could we just avoid the obvious references to Tony Parker's girlfriend? Pretty much every single clever thing that could possibly be said has already been said ad nauseum...

No, as a matter of fact, my plan for defending the Spurs would rely on the fact that we have at least two players on the bench we almost never use. Each of those players is entitled to six fouls. I would make sure they used them ... judiciously.;)
That is the obvious solution. However, given the recent "Artest incident of 2006", I think the referees will be very quick to blow whistles tonight, especially against the Kings. I am not saying that the Kings will lose, but discretionary officiating seems to help the Spurs. Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen have received a lot of "courtesy passes" from NBA referees, and they have for some time now. There may well be some minutes for Potapenko. There would be if I were Adelman.

The world is all about messages. Popovic understands that.
 
#23
perv.

If whoever guards Parker goes under screens, it will make the game 40% easier for our bigs to rebound and get into help. Parker driving the lane forces our big guys to help, and therefore get out of position for any rebounds when/if parker kicks out.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#24
venom_7 said:
perv.

If whoever guards Parker goes under screens, it will make the game 40% easier for our bigs to rebound and get into help. Parker driving the lane forces our big guys to help, and therefore get out of position for any rebounds when/if parker kicks out.
You are assuming that any of our "bigs" so much as twitch in the direction of a guy slicing down the lane. ;)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#25
"Twitch" implies they actually are facing in the right direction and realize there's a player with an opposing uniform approaching, right?
 
#26
VF21 said:
Oh please. Could we just avoid the obvious references to Tony Parker's girlfriend? Pretty much every single clever thing that could possibly be said has already been said ad nauseum...
Sorry, I'll neva eva do it again.
 
#27
VF21 said:
First of all, big welcome back to Superman! I, for one, have missed his thought-provoking posts.



I voted for "better idea"... only because, I'm somewhat sorry to say, I do have another idea on how to play the Spurs. Unfortunately, it's vindictive and beneath even my own usual standards for our Kings, so I won't share it.

;)
Thank you, ma'am. I'm here often, just never really find the time to put something up that's worth being read. You see what time I started this thread.

Plus, we don't have nearly enough polls around here anymore. ;)
 
#28
I've never seen anyone consistently use screens the way Ginobili and Parker do.

Most players come around the pick and hug the corner in order to shed the defender. Or they step back behind it to wait for the roll or shoot the jumper.

Not these two guys. They wheel all the way around the pick, going wide to the outside and avoiding the help from the second the defender, then they either go to the cup or hit the screener down the lane. Ginobili did just that on the three-point play in overtime that nailed the game down. It makes it harder to trap the ball-handler off the pick - virtually impossible with just the two defenders. Not that I've never seen anyone else use picks that way, but not as consistently as they do. The only other person I can think of would be Steve Nash.

How do we defend that? Scot Pollard used to chase the ball-handler all the way out and keep him from turning the corner, but we don't have any big men that are going to do that. Brad Miller is the worst defensive player we've had at center ever, and Kenny Thomas doesn't keep his head in the game. Shareef might be heady enough to figure it out, but it would require the original defender getting back in front of his man quickly. Our guards are standing around too much, not hustling at all. We played such energetic and frenetic defense in the first half, and then went back to turnstile defense on the perimeter in the third quarter.

I remember one San Antonio possession towards the end of the fourth quarter where the ball handler literally had no defender anywhere within 12 feet of him, and he was about 2 feet past the three point line. It was like no one knew who's man he was. They scored on that possession.

Anyways, there's two options left for guarding the pick and roll. One is to chase the ball handler off the corner, and the other is to send a third man to trap the ball handler (like we did against the Lakers in the last regular season game in 2004; Kobe only took one shot in the first half, against the shot clock). I don't trust our team to rotate defensively on a consistent enough basis to use a third man to defend the pick, so I hope somebody is seeing what I'm seeing and instructs our big men to stay aggressive on the picks and our guards to haul a** to get back in front of their man.

If the Spurs win this series (and all signs point toward just that happening), it won't be just because they're a better team. We proved tonight that we can play with them. It will be because we don't play with the concentration and focus that a championship team like the Spurs plays with. We beat ourselves tonight, and no excuses can make up for that. None.
 
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