contention

VF21 · Jun 8, 2005

ONEZERO said:

Webber wasn't hobbling around on one leg. That is NOT the truth. He couldn't do everything he used to be able to do, but he was still effective. He could still pass, he could still command respect, he could still exort his fellow Kings to do their best, he could still LEAD. He was putting up triple-doubles, for God's sake. How you can diminish those astounds me.

For the record? We aren't all "guys" on this board.

You've been a fan since 1999 and you talking about sad moments? Dude, you don't know sad moments. What you know are minor setbacks in what was, for the most part, an exhilarating ride.

I am not giving up on the team I've loved since 1985. But I'm not going to sit here with my head in the sand pretending everything is hunky dory and ignore the real problems facing Geoff Petrie this off-season. To do so would be dishonest...both as a fan and a realist.

chelle · Jun 9, 2005

ONEZERO said:

It's not about giving up on the team. You'll find that many people who post here have been fans of this team since before they even came close to making the playoffs (myself included). It is more the fact that we have been fans long enough to know that one or two bad decisions made by owners or a GM can take a team out of contention for years. It also has to do with removing your heart a little and looking at the circumstances objectively. I said in an earlier post that I am choosing to believe that we will be able to contend next season. I also said to check back with me right before the season begins. I said that because I KNOW that changes have to be made. The players we have right now, based on how they played this season WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET IT DONE. Petrie could pull off another miracle or the players we have now could fulfill their proclaimations to improve on their weaknesses (defense) over the summer. I think a combination of both must happen to truely put us back at the top. The point is, IT COULD HAPPEN BUT IT MAY NOT.

The Kings have brought all of their fans good memories as well as sad memories. Do not be too hasty to assume that somebody is not a fan if they do not believe we can contend next year. Some of us believe in miracles, some of us are more realist but we are all fans AND WE ARE ALL WAITING TO SEE WHAT THE NEXT SEASON WILL HOLD FOR US. WE ARE ALL WISHING FOR THE BEST, even while we prepare for the worst.

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

Exactly, chelle. Very well put.

And personally, I won't give up on the team if they finish the season withyout a playoff appearance. I didn't before...

It always sounds as though we're trying to bring people down, but fans who weren't here before 1999 have no idea what it was like to be a Kings fan. They tend to assume those of us who are being "negative" are not going to be fans any longer. I guess I haven't been able to get the point across that, even though I don't harbor a lot of hope at this point, I'm not going to stop being a fan. I'm part of a family of fans, both in "real life" and here... and I'm not going to stop if the team doesn't make the playoffs. I'll just have to find more things to do with all that new spare time.

BLNINJA #81 · Jun 9, 2005

VF21 said:

Exactly, chelle. Very well put.

And personally, I won't give up on the team if they finish the season withyout a playoff appearance. I didn't before...

It always sounds as though we're trying to bring people down, but fans who weren't here before 1999 have no idea what it was like to be a Kings fan. They tend to assume those of us who are being "negative" are not going to be fans any longer. I guess I haven't been able to get the point across that, even though I don't harbor a lot of hope at this point, I'm not going to stop being a fan. I'm part of a family of fans, both in "real life" and here... and I'm not going to stop if the team doesn't make the playoffs. I'll just have to find more things to do with all that new spare time.

Exactly, and anything less, is just a bandwagoner..

6th · Jun 9, 2005

BLNINJA #81 said:

While my first thought was WORD to this post, BLNINJA, in occurs to me that we have many many very young members here. Several of them were not basketball fans at all prior to the Vlade, Webber, JWill era. In other words, they have known nothing but winning years...contending years, more or less.

They may have to learn what it means to be a fan of a "not so great" team...maybe even a "poor" team. Those of us who have been around for awhile know exactly what it feels like to win only 20 games. Having "tasted" what it is like to be a contender, I am in no hurry to go back to the 20 win seasons. However, would I still be a fan? YOU BET!!

whozit · Jun 9, 2005

Don't sugarcoat it, plain awful is more like it.

mcsluggo · Jun 9, 2005

prior to 1999, arguably the worst franchise in professional sports.

Sac had been in the league for 15 years without even SNIFFING at a winning record until the later half of the 90s

Lurknomo · Jun 9, 2005

As a 20 year Kings fan I'll not give up after one disappointing season. True that for the first 15 or so seasons it was cause for celebration to win a road game, or even a 3 game winning steak, this team will not be revisiting that era. With all the uncertainty coming up this off season, mainly the CBA expiring in 3 weeks, I don't know if "contender " is the right word for next season. But I do know that it won't be "expansionism" either. Petrie and the Maloofs will surely have a plan, I just hope we don't lose the summer to a lockout.

chelle · Jun 9, 2005

6th said:

Let's hope that they do not have to learn about it with the Kings!!!

BTW, I live in Hornet land. I was talking to a friend about the woes of our team. He just shook his head and asked, "Do you realize how many poeple would LOVE to have the bad season you claimed to have had this year?" He also pointed out the difference in the talent level of our players and players from other teams. He told me that I could not complain about our players until our roster had more names that made people ask "Who's that?" than players that people claimed had a bad season just because they only scored 20 a game!! Let's just say he was not very sympathetic to my whines!

It helped me remember the really bad times and be more grateful of where we are now. Don't get me wrong. I think our current situation STINKS!! However, I not think that I want to go back to the early 90's and before. I complain more now than I did then because I expect more, but I have more reason to hope!!

Bricklayer · Jun 9, 2005

The Hornets are a very bad comparison. I'm reasonably certain they were playing in the NBDL last season.

Folsom Al · Jun 9, 2005

Posted by: chelle

BTW, I live in Hornet land. I was talking to a friend about the woes of our team. He just shook his head and asked, "Do you realize how many poeple would LOVE to have the bad season you claimed to have had this year?" He also pointed out the difference in the talent level of our players and players from other teams. He told me that I could not complain about our players until our roster had more names that made people ask "Who's that?" than players that people claimed had a bad season just because they only scored 20 a game!! Let's just say he was not very sympathetic to my whines!
... ain't that the truth, just when you think you got it bad .... somebody's shows you up !!

There are things worse than being a King's fan ...

Being a King's fan and a Warrior's fan ....

chelle · Jun 9, 2005

Folsom Al said:

Didn't you hear? The Warriors are supposed to the great next season!!

ONEZERO · Jun 9, 2005

Hey VF, find me one kings fan outside of sactown who's liked them as long as you. I honestly barely knew of their existence. I just knew they were a team with mitch richmond on it. You can't say I aint a true fan cause I've only liked them for 7+ years. How can we seriously believe you were a diehard fan all these years? And for the record, I said I wouldn't give up on this team until they finished the season without a playoff appearance because that aint ever gonna happen. I don't believe they will ever miss the playoffs with the maloofs as owners and petrie as GM. Maybe its better you close this thread cause it seems like all its caused is problems.

Folsom Al · Jun 9, 2005

chelle said:

Every year I get my hopes up .... you know the rest

I can't remember the last time the Warriors made the playoffs ...

But, I'll be here .... rootin' 'em on (King's 1st - Warriors 2nd)

SactoGreg · Jun 9, 2005

Onezero,

IMO, I think you are making more out this than you should. And I don't believe anyone is suggsting you are "less a fan" because you started watching them a few years ago.

You think they have a chance to compete and possibly make a run at the title. Good for you. I wish I had that same feeling, too!

But from my perspective, Petrie has so many obstacles ahead of him, many of which are outside his control. He's good, but Harry Houdini would have trouble with the Kings situation!

If GP could go out and spend as much as he wanted, could sign players to contracts at will, and lower ticket prices to make all of the fans happy, he'd be the next coming of Christ. But that's not reality.

What makes him a great GM is his ability to work within the confines of the CBA, and his penchant for coming out of a player transaction unscathed and usually "on the better end of the deal".

I give him all the credit in the world. Heck, I wouldn't want any other GM to be at the wheel for the Kings in this situation.

But even GP is gonna have a problem making this squad competitive next season. And if Petrie is half the GM that I think he is, he is looking out several seasons to re-build a contender, not a quick fix using smoke and mirrors (like this past season).

Trouble with that is, I have no interest in waiting for it to happen...

sono · Jun 9, 2005

Folsom Al said:

Wheew... I was gonna ask who is the first

.
good to see ya AI

Folsom Al · Jun 9, 2005

Wassup sono !!!!

Welcome to kingsfan.com .....

Where men are men - women are women - and kings are kings !!!!

sono · Jun 9, 2005

ONEZERO said:

Yes, with right pieces that can blend in, who knows how far can they reach, no one's got a crystal ball yet.

patrick204 · Jun 9, 2005

Subcontention

is the likely future.

Certainly the present team (if it could all be re-signed or even if the Cat leaves) could gel into a solid team with a playoff-experienced core. I think the present team could take 50 games again in the regular season, and have equal odds of making it to the second round.

With a 7 footer of the strength of Rasheed Wallace we would be contenders again. With a 7 footer like Kwame Brown or Darko Milicic, it is in the hands of the gods. Since we can't get Wallace, and may not be able to get Brown or Milicic, I suspect we are not going to be contenders until Geoff finds a surprise at the bottom of the box.

Now if Kevin Martin had a breakout year he would become Richard Hamilton. But we still wouldn't have Rasheed Wallace, Mike still would not defend, and we would still not get enough rebounds to beat the elite consistently. We would, however, be the top-scoring NBA team and scare people in the West for a while.

Londonking · Jun 9, 2005

ONEZERO said:

On the contrary Onezero, this thread has been one of the more entertaining to read.

Of course the potential sucess (or not) of our team is going to be emotive and we know from other threads that there is a huge diversity of opinion as to what could, should and is likely to happen over the next 3 months, year and beyond.

However, i dont think we should see this specrum of standpoints as a negaitve. On the contrary, IMHO it's great that we can express our views constructively and fans such a myself, who have less understanding of how the team has got to its current position can take onboard the comments of others.

Appreciating other people's opinions doesn't have to mean we are going to agree, but we all have a common bond...we long for the Kings to be sucessful. Being able to talk about sensitive issues like this, where you have differing degrees of optimism and pessimism goes to show how tolerant and united we really are as it enables us to place our own views in context of what a range of other people think.

For my part...I'm an optimist...but i've been wrong before !

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

ONEZERO said:

1. I NEVER said you weren't a true fan. It's not about being a "true fan." It's about only being a fan during the good years and misunderstanding what those of us with much more time invested are trying to say. It's not a contest about who's been a fan the longest or who's the "truer" fan. I'm sorry you weren't around or perhaps even alive in 1985, but that's your loss. You missed out. You cannot possibly view the team from the same perspective as those of us who WERE around. That's what I've been trying to get you to understand. Message boards are for exchanging views and differing opinions. You can only base yours on your experience. that's cool. What's not cool is how you seem to ready to dismiss those of us who are seeming more "negative" because we're basing our opinions on experiences you haven't had. Sorry, but I don't have a time machine to allow you to go back and live what we lived.

2. I couldn't care less if you don't believe I've been a diehard fan all these years. Honestly. If you think I'm making it up, cool. I lived it. I don't have to prove it to you or anyone else.

3. You said "I won't give up on this team UNTIL THEY FINISH THE SEASON without a playoff appearance." Your words, not mine. You qualify that again by saying it ain't even gonna happen. Well, what if it does?

I'm not going to close the thread because people are expressing their opinions and, although you seem to have put the target on your own back, it was your initial post that got people talking... and that's a good thing, even though it might not feel like it right now because your comments have elicited some pretty strong reactions from other members.

It's like listening to the stories grandpa tells about the "good old days." They don't mean much to you because you didn't live through them, but to others like grandpa, they bring back fond (and not-so-fond) memories. There is, believe it or not, room enough for both...as long as people realize that our perspectives and expectations might be totally different.

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

6th said:

I think what BLNINJA was referring to was the comment about someone being a fan until the Kings don't make the playoffs. If they came when the Kings became exciting and left (not that anyone actually is going to do that) when they dropped out of the post-season picture, they'd pretty much be the stereotypical bandwagon fan. Ask those new Spurs fans with the old Laker and even Bulls jerseys in their closets.

chelle · Jun 9, 2005

Let's all just hope that nobody has to decide if they will stay fans or not if we do not make the playoffs! I would rather keep arguing about whether or not we are contenders for the championship and not contenders for the playoffs! My best friend is a die-hard Spur's fan. It's been bad enough that we were knocked out in the first round. I do not want to even think about what I would have to hear if we went back to not making the playoffs.

thesanityannex · Jun 9, 2005

Can we all at least agree they are playoff bound, and maybe not championship bound?

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

Can we all agree they're playoff bound? Not at this moment in time. Sorry, but until and unless something happens to improve the current roster I'm not going to assume anything about how well they'll compete next year. There are simply too many unknowns.

thesanityannex · Jun 9, 2005

Say they are no trades and the team stays as it is, (which is highly unlikely), just having a summer together to play and find some chemistry would still get them into the playoffs. I don't see Denver, Memphis, L.A., or Golden State passing up the Kings in one off-season. Now, if there is a lockout and a fifteen game season, then the Warriors have a chance, they can close out a season very well.

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

Why is it you think everyone has to agree?

You asked if everyone can agree the Kings are playoff bound? I answered. I'm not possessed of complete blind faith. Things have to change; if they don't, we are - in a word - screwed.

As far as the team staying as it is as of this very minute, we're in real trouble if that happens. All the other teams in the league have at least 12 players. You might not see Denver, Memphis, LA or Golden State passing up the Kings, but there's more than an outside chance of at least ONE or more of those teams doing exactly that if Petrie doesn't have a successful summer.

thesanityannex · Jun 9, 2005

If everyone were to agree we would live in perfect harmony, AND THATS WHAT I WANT.

VF21 · Jun 9, 2005

Then you shouldn't be posting on a sports message board.

thesanityannex · Jun 9, 2005

wait...........this is a sports message board???
I thought this was my SIMS-Kings edition where I rule everything.
OOOOPS. Back to my SIMS game.

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