[CLE/DET] Eastern Conference Finals discussion
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^^^ I see your point.
Very young players have made really big contributions in the past....the reason I used the word seldom. I will also say that Magic had teammates like Kareem (among others), Kobe had Shaq and Lebron has.....well, Lebron is asked to carry the entire team on his back the whole playoffs. I think that it is a bit much to expect a 22 year-old to deliver so much and people need to acknowledge this.
Very young players have made really big contributions in the past....the reason I used the word seldom. I will also say that Magic had teammates like Kareem (among others), Kobe had Shaq and Lebron has.....well, Lebron is asked to carry the entire team on his back the whole playoffs. I think that it is a bit much to expect a 22 year-old to deliver so much and people need to acknowledge this.
He also had some damn fine teammates.
If LeBron's team were to win the whole enchilada, he would doubtless win Finals MVP too. But instead of Kareem and at that time probably Jamaal Wilkes, he's got Big Z and Larry "I miss wide open 7 footers" Hughes.
I think LeBron still has a lot of growing to do in order to dominate at the elvel he should be. But the situations really aren't remotely comparable.
If LeBron's team were to win the whole enchilada, he would doubtless win Finals MVP too. But instead of Kareem and at that time probably Jamaal Wilkes, he's got Big Z and Larry "I miss wide open 7 footers" Hughes.
I think LeBron still has a lot of growing to do in order to dominate at the elvel he should be. But the situations really aren't remotely comparable.
I'm rarely the one to complain about the refs but at least 5 or 6 suspicious calls (or non-calls) went in Detroits favor in the last 2 minutes: Pavlovic travelling, Rasheed's trip to the foul line, Rasheed's push off against Varejao, non-foul on Lebron drive, non-foul on Rasheed's pushoff behind the back on Varejao on the same play, and finally the intentional foul. That may be a little too much...
There's a reason they were open though. Hughes is probably the worst shooter in the NBA, and yes I'm including centers like Big Ben and Shaq. The guy is an overpaid, injury prone, shot misser who only plays decent defense. But yeah they didn't do to well on that last posession IMO, except Rip played good D on LeBron but the rebounding sucked. But honestly who are you going to defend, LeBron or Donyel Marshall.
I see ESPN is whining about a "non-call" for poor little LeBron last night. There was no foul there.
Yep, an EC slug fest. Now our WC finals has turned into a slug fest as well, or mostly so. I have to say in game 2, they actually picked up the pace a little.
I think Detroit will have trouble winning like that in Cleveland if they don't find a way to quit losing their big men to foul trouble early on.
Yep, an EC slug fest. Now our WC finals has turned into a slug fest as well, or mostly so. I have to say in game 2, they actually picked up the pace a little.
I think Detroit will have trouble winning like that in Cleveland if they don't find a way to quit losing their big men to foul trouble early on.
NBA hits LeBron with flagrant foul
Late call lets Cavs star avoid ejection in Game 1
By Brian Windhorst and George M. Thomas
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/17276170.htm
AUBURN HILLS, MICH. - Forget about all the focus on LeBron James and his decision to pass at the end of Game 1. It turns out that the Cavaliers were fortunate that he was even playing in the fourth quarter. According to the rules, James should've been ejected late in the third quarter.
The NBA made no official announcement, but a league official confirmed Thursday that after a video review, NBA Senior Vice President Stu Jackson charged James with a flagrant foul-penalty 2 on a play with 1:20 left in the third quarter Monday night. Had it been called at the time, James would have been ejected.
There was no fine announced, but the usual for flagrant-2 is $5,000. Jackson could've suspended James for Game 2, but decided against it.
As James was following through on a jump shot, he elbowed Detroit Pistons center Chris Webber in the head with his right arm. Webber crashed to the floor. There was no foul called by the three game officials.
The maneuver was almost exactly the same as the two elbows Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant was suspended for during the season. As Bryant was falling after releasing jump shots on both occasions, he swiped at Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs and Marko Jaric of the Minnesota Timberwolves. He was suspended after each, with the NBA calling it ``an unnatural basketball act.''
Webber said he didn't feel James intended to hurt him on the play.
``I had jumped up there with him, and we made contact,'' Webber said before Game 2. ``I didn't think he did it on purpose.''
Though there was some chatter about the play on Internet sites and a clip was posted on YouTube, there was almost no media scrutiny of the play. Instead, all were reviewing James' decision to pass to Donyell Marshall with five seconds left.
Had the clip been replayed as often as Bryant's elbows, especially the one against Jaric after his first suspension, the NBA might have felt pressure to issue the same penalty.
Late call lets Cavs star avoid ejection in Game 1
By Brian Windhorst and George M. Thomas
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/17276170.htm
AUBURN HILLS, MICH. - Forget about all the focus on LeBron James and his decision to pass at the end of Game 1. It turns out that the Cavaliers were fortunate that he was even playing in the fourth quarter. According to the rules, James should've been ejected late in the third quarter.
The NBA made no official announcement, but a league official confirmed Thursday that after a video review, NBA Senior Vice President Stu Jackson charged James with a flagrant foul-penalty 2 on a play with 1:20 left in the third quarter Monday night. Had it been called at the time, James would have been ejected.
There was no fine announced, but the usual for flagrant-2 is $5,000. Jackson could've suspended James for Game 2, but decided against it.
As James was following through on a jump shot, he elbowed Detroit Pistons center Chris Webber in the head with his right arm. Webber crashed to the floor. There was no foul called by the three game officials.
The maneuver was almost exactly the same as the two elbows Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant was suspended for during the season. As Bryant was falling after releasing jump shots on both occasions, he swiped at Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs and Marko Jaric of the Minnesota Timberwolves. He was suspended after each, with the NBA calling it ``an unnatural basketball act.''
Webber said he didn't feel James intended to hurt him on the play.
``I had jumped up there with him, and we made contact,'' Webber said before Game 2. ``I didn't think he did it on purpose.''
Though there was some chatter about the play on Internet sites and a clip was posted on YouTube, there was almost no media scrutiny of the play. Instead, all were reviewing James' decision to pass to Donyell Marshall with five seconds left.
Had the clip been replayed as often as Bryant's elbows, especially the one against Jaric after his first suspension, the NBA might have felt pressure to issue the same penalty.
I don't disagree necessarily, but this goes back to what I've been saying since the playoffs started, that the one team that can beat Detroit is San Antonio... and they're a lock to get to the Finals.
Detroit can absolutely not play like this and beat the Spurs, but I expect them to play rather better in the Finals.
Detroit can absolutely not play like this and beat the Spurs, but I expect them to play rather better in the Finals.
Yeah the Pistons are garbage. They should trade all their players for late first round draft picks. I mean that Billups dude? WTF, WORST PG EVER? And that Hamilton guy? All he does is run around and throw up some shots. Sheed? He's an awful player. He's never hit a clutch shot or raised his game ever. Webber? What an awful player. And that Prince guy? He's lucky he's actually HIT A SHOT in the series, otherwise he'd be 0/19 and it's not like he's ever hit some shots before in his life. Flip is obviously a worse coach than Eric Musselman. It's not like the Pistons have ever been to the ECF before, nope. They're a bunch of newbies at this.(end sarcasm)
Based on what, pray tell? I'm not saying they necessarily won't, but they seem a tad too deeply in love with the whole 'switch' notion and might once more not manage to find it in time when it matters.
Seriously, I find the prevailant attitude here that Cleveland is kind of 'beneath' Pistons and not worthy their full effort somewhat unhealthy. This uber team got flat out outsucked at home, and is now heading for Cleveland. Snark all you want, Detroit fans, but it's not over till it's over
Seriously, I find the prevailant attitude here that Cleveland is kind of 'beneath' Pistons and not worthy their full effort somewhat unhealthy. This uber team got flat out outsucked at home, and is now heading for Cleveland. Snark all you want, Detroit fans, but it's not over till it's over
^^^That was before all the little touch fouls and the many other rule changes happened. They let the players play and decide the games for themselves. It seemed the games were better when there were ony 2 refs.
Do you remember the Mchale clothesline on Rambis in the 1984 Finals?? The foul was called and play continued...that's it.
Do you remember the Mchale clothesline on Rambis in the 1984 Finals?? The foul was called and play continued...that's it.
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...the game was cleaner when you had guys openly clotheslining other players going up for dunks?
I could take ive plays out of any Lakers/Celtics or Celtics/Pistons series that would get someone suspended for an entire series today. Back then, it wasn't even a flagrant foul. Heck, some of them weren't even CALLED because the refs missed them.
I could take ive plays out of any Lakers/Celtics or Celtics/Pistons series that would get someone suspended for an entire series today. Back then, it wasn't even a flagrant foul. Heck, some of them weren't even CALLED because the refs missed them.
It's not that the refs missed them...they just let them play. They weren't babied like the players are today.
I didn't say the game was "cleaner", just that they let the players play without taking over the game/series like what happens today. As Chick would say, "no blood, no foul." (Just a saying...not literal)
I didn't say the game was "cleaner", just that they let the players play without taking over the game/series like what happens today. As Chick would say, "no blood, no foul." (Just a saying...not literal)
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