CHAD FORD: Trade idea - Tyreke & No. 5 Pick forJoakim Noah & No. 29 Pick

[TrappedinRoseville]

It's BECAUSE Tyreke's trade value is so low that I wouldn't want to see him moved unless it was a lopsided deal.

Noah is a known commodity that will give you 10/10 and great effort on the defensive end and running the floor and he's locked in for four more seasons at between $11 to $14 million which is about market value. I can see the appeal.

But he also lacks that 15 footer to keep defenses from cheating to help on DMC. He's an upgrade from Jason Thompson (and has a significantly higher BB IQ) but not enough of one for me to want to give up on Evans yet.

Because as good as Cousins is he has some glaring deficiencies and the team will need a second superstar if they ever hope to contend. Noah is a wonderful piece on a playoff team. But he's doesn't have the potential to be a game changer. Evans clearly does.

I would rather roll the dice this season and see if he harnesses some of that potential. In the worst case he doesn't show much this season and is allowed to walk and the team looks for a new star to pair with DeMarcus.

Completely agree with all of this. Just pointing out that the notion "Noah for Evans" is a joke is way off base.

 

[Tetsujin]

Wthout getting too far into the stats, I don't thin had a "down year." He had "just a year." Almost all of his numbers are right in line with his career numbers. He's plateaued. But so what? He's plateaued as a 10 pt, 10 reb, 3 ast, 1.5 blk, .500 FG%, 750 FT%, PF/C who is one of the top defensive players in the league.

And Tyreke Evans? For all the mitigating circumstances about his coach and the system and IT etc....he's gone from a historic ROY season to two straight years where he looks like he's one dimensional on offense, checked out on defense, and struggles to stay involved in games at all unless he has the ball in his hands. Evans hasn't made any visible improvements in his game. Realistically, outside of the Kings fanbase, he's probably the 5th or 6th best guard IN HIS OWN DRAFT.

He's totally a "buy low" commodity - because he has the ability to be special in the right situation. But the reason he's a "buy low" commodity is because teams realize they can get him for relatively little because he's played away the value he had after his rookie season.

I wouldn't trade Evans mainly because there's no way to get back anything approximating his upside. And there's definitely a risk he blossoms in the right system (if he'd ended up in OKC for instance he could easily have approximated the things James Harden does). But the opposite is also true in that if Tyreke has another year like this past one people will be begging for the chance to deal him for someone like Noah. Because right now he's just a "buy low." One more year like these last two and he's a full on "Whatever happened to...? " reclamation project.

Not to be the pee cloud on your parade here but aside from the block numbers, those are pretty much JT numbers and we don't have to give up one of our franchise centerpieces to get him.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Thornton + Whiteside for Noah seems fair to me, try to swap the 36th pick to move up for their late 1st. (A guaranteed 1st round contract is less appealing to high cap contenders)

Your bigs are set for the next 3 years, with offense (Cuz) defense (Noah) and a 3rd big who does both (JT). And if he's in shape, you even have that veteran glue guy (Hayes).

The Bulls get some cap relief, a true perimeter scorer, and a young big to add to Osik/Gibson.

Very interesting proposal. Both teams would know what they're getting/losing in Thornton and Noah, as Brick mentioned, but Whiteside is not a bad gamble from the Bulls' perspective. You know Rose is going to be out for the majority (if not all) of the next season. Even if he's healthy to play during playoff time, you can't rush something like this. Not when he's still so young.

Anyway, the point is they get a year to develop Whiteside -- and with Thib's renown for coaching D, I can imagine the defensive monster they could create with young Hassan. You come back in Fall 2013 with a younger, more balanced roster for Rose to return to and keep rolling. Gamble, but intriguing from the Bulls' side IMO.

Nice idea.

 

[Kingster]

You could end up looking enormously, and disastrously, foolish on that one.

Noah would be an excellent fit next to Cousins. But he is topped out (27 now, and numbers have been flat for 3 years), and he keeps getting hurt. If Reke comes around even a little Chicago got the better player. if he comes around a lot you have just made maybe the worst move in the history of the franchise.

And I should note here to the person who said Reke and Rose together? Good point. Now Thornton and Rose together makes a lot more sense...

And lest it look like I'm just trying to dump Thornton, which I'm not, the attraction of using Marcus is that he is largely a known quantity. his game is mature. You know what he is, and is not. You can trade that sort of person for a Noah and control your costs in a predictable way. You might regret it, especially if Noah's injuries continue, but you can say you are trading for a lower half of the Top 10 C using a lower half of the Top 10 SG. Very good players, but neither guy is the franchise or a star you build around. All of this of course ignores my general impression that Chicago is not nearly as panic stricken by Rose's injury as the general public/fandom is, and is not inclined to radically bust up a squad they hoped could reach the Finals this year before Rose's knee went.

Reke has also had injury issues. I think it's a wash on the injury front.

 

[Kingster]

It's BECAUSE Tyreke's trade value is so low that I wouldn't want to see him moved unless it was a lopsided deal.

Noah is a known commodity that will give you 10/10 and great effort on the defensive end and running the floor and he's locked in for four more seasons at between $11 to $14 million which is about market value. I can see the appeal.

But he also lacks that 15 footer to keep defenses from cheating to help on DMC. He's an upgrade from Jason Thompson (and has a significantly higher BB IQ) but not enough of one for me to want to give up on Evans yet.

Because as good as Cousins is he has some glaring deficiencies and the team will need a second superstar if they ever hope to contend. Noah is a wonderful piece on a playoff team. But he's doesn't have the potential to be a game changer. Evans clearly does.

I would rather roll the dice this season and see if he harnesses some of that potential. In the worst case he doesn't show much this season and is allowed to walk and the team looks for a new star to pair with DeMarcus.

Disagree on a couple of fronts. First, Noah hits that 15 footer on a regular basis, despite his weird motion. Second, Noah takes over games with his energy - making steels, getting loose balls, blocking shots, getting rebounds. If you're looking for a guy who doesn't need to be a primary ballhandler to have an effect on the game, he's the guy. Can't think of a better guy to team with Cousins, other than maybe the #1 pick in this draft, or maybe Favors. That said, I highly doubt that this kind of trade could happen.

 

[TrappedinRoseville]

Not to be the pee cloud on your parade here but aside from the block numbers, those are pretty much JT numbers and we don't have to give up one of our franchise centerpieces to get him.

My point wasn't that you should do the trade or that Noah is the be-all, end-all.

It's that the value of the offer is in line with that Tyreke is currently worth.

 

[ParniValjak]

Disagree on a couple of fronts. First, Noah hits that 15 footer on a regular basis, despite his weird motion. Second, Noah takes over games with his energy - making steels, getting loose balls, blocking shots, getting rebounds. If you're looking for a guy who doesn't need to be a primary ballhandler to have an effect on the game, he's the guy. Can't think of a better guy to team with Cousins, other than maybe the #1 pick in this draft, or maybe Favors. That said, I highly doubt that this kind of trade could happen.

Serge Ibaka!

 

[roasthawg]

I think the people on this board are horribly overestimating Tyreke's value around the league.

Noah is looked at as an extremely efficient, borderline All-Star, double-double machine with a non-stop engine and reasonable contract.

Evans is a regressing guard with no jumpshot. true or not, that's his reputation after these past 2 years. there's a pretty good chance the Bulls say no to this deal even with the pick swap. And the idea you could get Noah for Salmons and the #5 is totally laughable.

I don't think it's his value around the league we're talking about so much as his value to the kings... most of us just don't want to trade him.

 

[Mass]

Guys, in the market you usually have to try to buy low and sell high. So, we all agree Tyreke's value is pretty low right now. We can't trade him. We won't get anything near his real value. So, end of the story. I'm not giving up Tyreke to get Noah. Maybe, as brick said, Thornton and Whiteside might work, that's a much more reasonable price.

 

[Gary]

Damn.. I didn't see the #5 and Evans... I would do the Evans for Noah and 29 though. No way in hell I would trade the 5th pick and Evans though.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

Not to be the pee cloud on your parade here but aside from the block numbers, those are pretty much JT numbers and we don't have to give up one of our franchise centerpieces to get him.

That's dandy if you just look at stats - the eye test and the reality is that Noah does so while leading the back to back top defensive team in the league, and the best ranked WINNING team in the league as their anchor - and is absolutely a proven game changer in this league from the defensive and hustle standpoint.

JT? ye, not so much.

I'm driving Tyreke to the airport if he can get me Noah. I have no faith this franchise can work Tyreke into what he can become (and I have alot of doubts Tyreke himself can become what he can become) - Noah is just about the perfect fit and compliment alongside our true franchise player, and would absolutely be a step in the right direction drastically improving our team in the short and long run.

That being said, I don't see the Bulls making that trade straight up. An intelligent 7ft defensive anchor for the top defensive team in the league on a good long contract is just too valuable, moreso then the current Tyreke and his trackrecord, even with his enormous potential.

 

[mac]

I think the people on this board are horribly overestimating Tyreke's value around the league.

Noah is looked at as an extremely efficient, borderline All-Star, double-double machine with a non-stop engine and reasonable contract.

Evans is a regressing guard with no jumpshot. true or not, that's his reputation after these past 2 years. there's a pretty good chance the Bulls say no to this deal even with the pick swap. And the idea you could get Noah for Salmons and the #5 is totally laughable.

ROFL. 3rd year player = Regressing. You guys are too funny.

Seriously if we ever trade Evans in a deal like this, I'd hope that he'd become a superstar and kick our ***es just so I can point out what idiots you were. Meanwhile we'll still be running our little small ball running game and going to the lottery for the next few years.

 

[Kingster]

Serge Ibaka!

Yes. Add him to the list.

 

[JMelho]

Lol so Rose gets a capable SG who can create on his own and this team gets Noah? Let alone the Kings would also get a crap draft pick for the #5? He must be high.

 

[Bricklayer]

The possibility that both Noah and Deng may be available (one or the other) for the #5 pick is being mentioned again (none of the #5 and Reke nonsense):

http://www.iamagm.com/news/2012/06/...luol.deng.high.draft.pick.and.trade.exception


Note however the source is the New York Daily News/Mitch Lawrence, who is not above merely absorbing the earlier Deng chatter, the chatter on Ford's chat/blog about Reke and #5 for Noah, and then just regurgitating it. So this might be confirmation that deals are available, or it might be just the same stuff coming back up. If Noah is available straight up for the #5 you would have to consider it though.

 

[Boogie-havoc]

#5 + Chuck Hayes(Would be a great fit under Thibs and Chicago's system as a bench big)

For

Noah


I'd also add our 2nd rounder if needed.

 

[bajaden]

#5 + Chuck Hayes(Would be a great fit under Thibs and Chicago's system as a bench big)

For

Noah


I'd also add our 2nd rounder if needed.

You took the words right out of my mouth. If they want a trade excemption included, that means they want the other team to absorb salary. I can't see the Kings absorbing all of Noah's salary, but if they would take Hayes in return, they still get some salary cap relief. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

 

[Uncia03]

You took the words right out of my mouth. If they want a trade excemption included, that means they want the other team to absorb salary. I can't see the Kings absorbing all of Noah's salary, but if they would take Hayes in return, they still get some salary cap relief. I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

So would I.
Then you use some of our young assets + 2nd Rnd pick to try and get a mid-first to pick up a SF such as Taylor or Quincy Miller, then re-sign TWill and you'd be set.

 

[twslam07]

What if we trade for both Deng and Noah?

#5
Thornton
Fredette
Hayes

for

Deng
Noah

They get a top 5 pick and they get 9 mil in relief. Not to mention they get Thornton who could be a nice sixth man for them.

Our lineup:

Evans/Thomas
Williams/Salmons
Deng/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Noah/Thompson
Cousins/Whiteside

8 man: Evans, Williams, Deng, Noah, Cousins, Thomas, Salmons, Thompson

I like the look of this lineup. Very defensive oriented.

 

[sidney]

twslam07 beat me to it


Get both

 

[Boogie-havoc]

A trade for both without giving up Tyreke and #5 isn't gonna cut it for the Bulls.

 

[cuad]

I'd be SUPER WILLING to trade Evans and the 5th pick for Noah and Deng. Evans really holds this roster hostage... I keep thinking about the time when Evans was injured and out last year, and Marcus Thornton was scoring tons of points, winning games, AND PASSING THE BALL.

Noah and Deng have really nasty contracts, lol.

 

[Bricklayer]

after looking at the Bulls' salary situation you begin to see how these rumors could be true, or at least what inspired columnists to make them up

The Bulls are in the situation everybody is buzzing about the Thunder being in after next year. They're going to have 4 guys with $11mil+ salaries, inclduing 2 with $15mil salaries. All told Rose, Boozer, Deng and Noah are going to combine for $55mil in salary between them. And they are all long term deals headed right into the teeth of the new CBA. With Boozer's deal unmoveable, and with Asik and Gibsoin coming up as free agents, I cna totally see the Bulls looking at Rose's injury, figuring they aren't going to win it all next year anyway, and wanting to escape one of their mega-deals to gain flexibility going forward.

 

[bajaden]

I'd be SUPER WILLING to trade Evans and the 5th pick for Noah and Deng. Evans really holds this roster hostage... I keep thinking about the time when Evans was injured and out last year, and Marcus Thornton was scoring tons of points, winning games, AND PASSING THE BALL.

Noah and Deng have really nasty contracts, lol.

Esentially trading Tyreke and Hayes for Noah and Deng is financially doable. Noah and Deng's combined salaries add up to $24,376,700.00, and Tyreke and Hayes salaries add up to $10,738,074.00. A difference of $13,638,626.00. Since were around 14 mil under the cap, it would be feasable. We'd have to forget about T. Will and JT. So we'd have a starting lineup of:

Cousins: C/PF
Noah: C/PF
Deng: SF
Thornton: SG
I. Thomas: PG

Not sure I'd do that. If I were making that deal, I wouldn't include my 5th pick in the draft. I'd need that for some depth. I'd rather substitute Thornton for Tyreke.

 

[VF21]

Esentially trading Tyreke and Hayes for Noah and Deng is financially doable. Noah and Deng's combined salaries add up to $24,376,700.00, and Tyreke and Hayes salaries add up to $10,738,074.00. A difference of $13,638,626.00. Since were around 14 mil under the cap, it would be feasable. We'd have to forget about T. Will and JT. So we'd have a starting lineup of:

Cousins: C/PF
Noah: C/PF
Deng: SF
Thornton: SG
I. Thomas: PG

Not sure I'd do that. If I were making that deal, I wouldn't include my 5th pick in the draft. I'd need that for some depth. I'd rather substitute Thornton for Tyreke.

I don't often comment on trade proposals, but this one looks intriguing. And if we picked up MKG in the draft, I'd be a pretty happy camper.

 

[cuad]

Esentially trading Tyreke and Hayes for Noah and Deng is financially doable. Noah and Deng's combined salaries add up to $24,376,700.00, and Tyreke and Hayes salaries add up to $10,738,074.00. A difference of $13,638,626.00. Since were around 14 mil under the cap, it would be feasable. We'd have to forget about T. Will and JT. So we'd have a starting lineup of:

Cousins: C/PF
Noah: C/PF
Deng: SF
Thornton: SG
I. Thomas: PG

Not sure I'd do that. If I were making that deal, I wouldn't include my 5th pick in the draft. I'd need that for some depth. I'd rather substitute Thornton for Tyreke.

I think they'll only consider the offer if the 5th pick is involved. The Kings can afford JT and T-Will by amnestying Salmons.

I'm down with that starting lineup. I have total faith that MT23 can be a number 1 option. Plus, he's clutch, so he's made for it. I have total faith that IT can be the vocal leader.

 

[ElRey]

Two potential stars for Joakim Noah? umm no