Caron Butler Promised A Trade

Ty lawson is back on the block. Soley due to bad basketball fit in HOU.

Karl will be salivating and I full expect Caron to be utilised in a trade for lawson.

The pace, small ball merchants will continue unless Vlade can resist.
 
Sac.1989 said:
Ty lawson is back on the block. Soley due to bad basketball fit in HOU.

Karl will be salivating and I full expect Caron to be utilised in a trade for lawson.

The pace, small ball merchants will continue unless Vlade can resist.
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How does this make any logical sense? Seriously?

When you actually stop and think about it, you realize that we already have two good PGs. Why would we be in the business for another?

There's many here who are open to the idea of moving Collison since the Rondo/Collison backcourt doesn't seem to be that effective, but moving a guy like Collison for Lawson would put you in the same predicament.

And if that weren't enough, he's making $12.4 mil this year. How does Butler's $1.5 mil salary even come close to matching? To match, you're looking at adding guys like Gay, Rondo, Koufos, Belinelli, or Collison to the deal. I wouldn't even consider giving up any of these guys to get Lawson.
 
The issue isn't Ben's defense or his value compared to Martin. It's using another asset on a soft non defender who's only getting worse in his 12th season. Go ahead and trade Ben, but you better get back a three and D player that actually fills a need. We already have Belinelli, there's really no need to double down on soft shoot first guards.
 
I just don't see how adding Kevin Martin to this team helps us in the near or short term. If we ever want to make the playoffs(and eventually contend) with a Rondo, Rudy, WCS, DMC core we need the SG to be a 10 ppg a game scorer and lock down defender. Ben at least has a shot of developing into that at some point in the next 2 years.
 
twslam07 said:
How does this make any logical sense? Seriously?

When you actually stop and think about it, you realize that we already have two good PGs. Why would we be in the business for another?

There's many here who are open to the idea of moving Collison since the Rondo/Collison backcourt doesn't seem to be that effective, but moving a guy like Collison for Lawson would put you in the same predicament.

And if that weren't enough, he's making $12.4 mil this year. How does Butler's $1.5 mil salary even come close to matching? To match, you're looking at adding guys like Gay, Rondo, Koufos, Belinelli, or Collison to the deal. I wouldn't even consider giving up any of these guys to get Lawson.
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agreed. I hope it doesnt happen but Karl does like Lawson muchly. Butler and Collison for Lawson would be a mistake as would any other mix with Butler, and it would be a move further espousing our smallball pace disposition.

The fact is Lawson has failed in HOU because he cant play off the ball. Those issues would plague him here also because KArl would certainly play him with Rondo and not as a spark off the bench.
 
Has anyone noticed that when we give Ben 20-25 games with the same system and same teammates, and sometimes same coach, he starts getting better? How about we give the kid some consistency in his minutes, system, coach and role before we say he's dumb and can't play. Give him a couple years with one system to see who he can be for us. And stop raising the bar on him. He's in a no win situation with some fans. Doesn't get the credit he deserves for getting better and adapting his game. 41% 3pt percentage is way above the demanded 38% we were talking about last year. This is the percentage AFTER the bad 5 game start where we were calling for his head. He's averaging 8ppg, but that is with less minutes than he's had in the past and an extremely short leash. All we wanted from Ben was to hit a good % of his 3s and play D. Wish granted.

Ben is a better asset than Kmart right now. He's on the trading block because he's not giving thec wolves anything of value. It's not like the Rondo situation. He's not coming back from injury. He's just fallen off and can't get the wolves over the hump. Ben is a better player today and going forward than Kmart. He's a different type of player, but better. I'm saying that knowing Ben has a ton to improve on.
 
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i've been as big a critic as any of ben mclemore since he was drafted, but i can't see any worthwhile logic to trading mclemore for kevin martin. why swap a role player whose best playing days are well behind him for a role player whose best playing days are no doubt in front of him? sure, martin was at one time a 20ppg scorer, but is more scoring what this kings team really needs? ben's shooting 41% from three this season, and he's far more likely to develop into a plus defender on the wing than martin is to play any defense at all at this point in his career...

the kings can get into the playoffs in a weakened western conference this season if they play up to their potential; they don't need a veteran like kevin martin to accomplish that, and that's nothing against k-mart. i just think it's better asset management to give george karl an opportunity to help mclemore continue to grow through next season, when the kings should be working to push into the middle-of-the-pack amongst playoff teams. if you can engineer a mclemore trade that nets the kings a legitimate veteran 3-and-D player, it should be strongly considered, but i'm not trading mclemore's potential to become that 3-and-D player for a non-defensive veteran like martin...
 
What about Bradon Bass who is still at his age a very good athlete and mid range jump shooter while bringing good physicality.

The guy could let us go small without actually being small in terms of rebounding and toughness. The big problem is as long as Kosta is on the team and we bring in another big we wastw the potential of WCS
 
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KingMilz said:
What about Bradon Bass who is still at his age a very good athlete and mid range jump shooter while bringing good physicality.

The guy could let us go small without actually being small in terms of rebounding and toughness. The big problem is as long as Kosta is on the team and we bring in another big we wastw the potential of WCS
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The interesting thing with Bass is his chemistry with Rajon.
But he currently makes quite a bit of money with the Lakers and is signed for 2 years. Now replacing Butler, Dukan and Acy for someone who is actually useful on the court, would be great.
 
Trade Ben for Lavine. Both make poor decisions with the ball. Both athletic. Lavine is going to be a lot better than Ben in a couple of years; that's why I want to do the trade.:)
 
Kingster said:
Trade Ben for Lavine. Both make poor decisions with the ball. Both athletic. Lavine is going to be a lot better than Ben in a couple of years; that's why I want to do the trade.:)
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LaVine is clearly much more dynamic than Ben, but Minnesota knows that too. There are no "trade your young player for somebody else's better young player" deals out there unless they play clearly different positions or the other team is stupid, and I rather doubt Ben's sterling body of work thus far is going to inspire too many teams to be stupid.
 
Bricklayer said:
LaVine is clearly much more dynamic than Ben, but Minnesota knows that too. There are no "trade your young player for somebody else's better young player" deals out there unless they play clearly different positions or the other team is stupid, and I rather doubt Ben's sterling body of work thus far is going to inspire too many teams to be stupid.
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You're probably right. This kind of trade got me thinking though. Wouldn't the Kings be better off with a combo guard than a redundant point guard they now currently have? Collison can't guard 2-guards whereas a decent combo guard could. You get less ball handling, but Collison doesn't activate the offense anyway. Collison isn't better overall than LaVine; maybe a sweetener could get thrown in by the Wolves. One thing I noticed about LaVine, even in his freshman year at UCLA, the guy has the potential to be an extremely good defender. He showed that when Collison went one-on-one with him and he stopped Collison cold.
 
Kingster said:
You're probably right. This kind of trade got me thinking though. Wouldn't the Kings be better off with a combo guard than a redundant point guard they now currently have? Collison can't guard 2-guards whereas a decent combo guard could. You get less ball handling, but Collison doesn't activate the offense anyway. Collison isn't better overall than LaVine; maybe a sweetener could get thrown in by the Wolves. One thing I noticed about LaVine, even in his freshman year at UCLA, the guy has the potential to be an extremely good defender. He showed that when Collison went one-on-one with him and he stopped Collison cold.
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I've been saying that Collison is the wrong combo guard for Karl....it's a crapty fit with Rondo. Not that we can get these guys but Dragic, Knight, guys like that would be great.
 
Kingster said:
You're probably right. This kind of trade got me thinking though. Wouldn't the Kings be better off with a combo guard than a redundant point guard they now currently have? Collison can't guard 2-guards whereas a decent combo guard could. You get less ball handling, but Collison doesn't activate the offense anyway. Collison isn't better overall than LaVine; maybe a sweetener could get thrown in by the Wolves. One thing I noticed about LaVine, even in his freshman year at UCLA, the guy has the potential to be an extremely good defender. He showed that when Collison went one-on-one with him and he stopped Collison cold.
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LaVine has ton's of potential. His worse enemy is himself. He never saw a shot he didn't like. Coming out of college, he was one of the most undisciplined, but talented players in the entire draft. He has the potential to be a very good two way player. He has some PG skills, and, he's 6'5". The difference between LaVine and McLemore, is his aggressiveness. LaVine plays with an attitude, which is part of what makes him undisciplined. But, as it's already been stated, I don't know the T Wolves would make that trade.
 
bajaden said:
LaVine has ton's of potential. His worse enemy is himself. He never saw a shot he didn't like. Coming out of college, he was one of the most undisciplined, but talented players in the entire draft. He has the potential to be a very good two way player. He has some PG skills, and, he's 6'5". The difference between LaVine and McLemore, is his aggressiveness. LaVine plays with an attitude, which is part of what makes him undisciplined. But, as it's already been stated, I don't know the T Wolves would make that trade.
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Leaving aside LaVine, don't you think a pretty good combo guard would be better to have than Collison? If we make a trade at the trade deadline, something like that would make sense.
 
Kingster said:
Leaving aside LaVine, don't you think a pretty good combo guard would be better to have than Collison? If we make a trade at the trade deadline, something like that would make sense.
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I think Collison is fine as a backup PG. Hell, there are teams out there that would like to have him as a starting PG. But as a part time (a little too much part time) SG, I'm not a happy camper. In college, I didn't like LaVine as a PG. Too selfish, and too undisciplined. As a SG with the ability to create as well as shoot and score the ball, I like him. In other words, yes, I like him as a combo guard who can handle, shoot, and drive as well as pass. I think as he matures. he'll get better in the creating and passing dept. But I think we still need a backup PG if we decide to trade Collison. So the question is, can Curry fill that roll?

The upside of having LaVine on the floor next to Rondo instead of Collison, is that our defense improves dramatically. I think if you have McLemore and LaVine at the SG position, along with Belinelli, you no longer have a need to play Collison next to Rondo. Of course that creates a logjam at the SG position. The difference is, LaVine is a better defender than Belinelli by a long shot, and a better ballhandler than McLemore. I'd love to get the Capt's imput on this since he's a UCLA guy, and I'm sure he has an opinion on LaVine. One of the problems with obtaining him is that the T Wolves only have one other SG on the roster and that's Martin. Makes a trade for LaVine unlilely, unless we throw in either McLemore or Belinelli.
 
Again... I think you trade Caron for a high number draft pick and cash and put Duje Dukan on the roster... unless there was some big bargain floating around out there.
 
bajaden said:
The upside of having LaVine on the floor next to Rondo instead of Collison, is that our defense improves dramatically. I think if you have McLemore and LaVine at the SG position, along with Belinelli, you no longer have a need to play Collison next to Rondo. Of course that creates a logjam at the SG position. The difference is, LaVine is a better defender than Belinelli by a long shot, and a better ballhandler than McLemore. I'd love to get the Capt's imput on this since he's a UCLA guy, and I'm sure he has an opinion on LaVine.
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Well, when he was at UCLA, the words "LaVine" and "defense" could not be validly used together in the same sentence without a negative qualifier. He's got the athleticism to play good D, but his head certainly wasn't there while in college. I haven't followed him too closely in Minnesota, so I can't say if he's gotten better, but for his year in Westwood, he was not a good defender.

My opinion on LaVine is perhaps not as charitable as you'd expect from a fan of the team. He was clearly not ready to play in the NBA after his freshman year (I think his numbers last year showed that) but it seems that once his year at UCLA wasn't turning out to be this dominant top-5 draftee season, instead of buckling down, committing to a second year at UCLA to get better and ready for the pros, instead he kind of gave up on the team and sleepwalked through the last 10-15 games. Very disappointing, from a character point of view. And I'm still not convinced he is in any way a point guard, though he seems to believe he is and the 'Wolves seem happy to entertain that delusion. Rondo? Rondo is a point guard. LaVine is a guy who can bring the ball up the floor. There's a vast difference between the way they see the floor. If you want athleticism, LaVine is your guy. If you want a solid jumpshot, good decision making, basketball fundamentals...meh. Maybe he can put it together eventually. I might even be willing to take a look at him if he were a free agent. But Minnesota will ask for the moon in trade, I don't think he's remotely worth it.
 
Kind of what I thought you might say. I completely agree. Defense, being a PG, solid jumpshot is all potential. As I said originally, he's a very undisciplined player. Of course that can change. but so far this year, I don't see a lot of improvement from last year. And as I said, I don't think the T Wolves are ready to move him just yet.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
The Stein tweet actually says after Christmas if not sooner. Still...it takes two to tango.
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They also said to a team where he could get more playing time. Adding that in does complicate a deal somewhat. However, I think Vlade feels he owes it Butler to do his best to accommodate him. As a result it might be taking a tad longer than if we were just going to dump him on Philly.
 
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