Brett Brown?

Kings_of_California

Kings_of_California

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Philadelphia just fired Brett Brown today. I know Walton is still the coach as of today but man, I would LOVE to have him canned in favor of Brett Brown.

I know there might be criticism that Brown underperformed with the roster he had in Philly, but I've always thought that despite having great players, the roster construction of that team just never fit at all.

What do you guys think?
 
Not if he runs that same offense. He got fired for many of the same reasons (and basic horn set calls that cause spacing issues) that you should be letting Walton go for. Fox is probably less of a problem than Simmons was for Brown in that offense but again, you have players in Simmons and Fox that operate better with spacing and a coach that wanted to overwhelm teams with size, two centers, and a 6'10" PG while playing in the middle of the floor with off ball action. They somewhat had a roster that could make it work for him, that offense would honestly be even worse than Waltons with the Kings roster since at least Walton kicks it back a few feet to the 3 point line. The Kings don't have an Embiid or a Horford to make it work. Imagine replacing Embiid and Horford who have developed perimeter games with Bagley and Holmes? Yikes. That could be bad. Totally different types of players.
 
I have criticized Hinkie on this board before, but the GMs running Philadelphia (particularly Colangelo) totally screwed that team up. There disappointing season is not the coach's fault. I like Brown. Players seemed to like him. I'm not sure he's the right guy though, until we figure out who the new GM is. I like the idea, in theory.
 
SacTownKid said:
Not if he runs that same offense. He got fired for many of the same reasons (and basic horn set calls that cause spacing issues) that you should be letting Walton go for. Fox is probably less of a problem than Simmons was for Brown in that offense but again, you have players in Simmons and Fox that operate better with spacing and a coach that wanted to overwhelm teams with size, two centers, and a 6'10" PG while playing in the middle of the floor with off ball action. They somewhat had a roster that could make it work for him, that offense would honestly be even worse than Waltons with the Kings roster since at least Walton kicks it back a few feet to the 3 point line. The Kings don't have an Embiid or a Horford to make it work. Imagine replacing Embiid and Horford who have developed perimeter games with Bagley and Holmes? Yikes. That could be bad. Totally different types of players.
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I agree, but it's kind of a chicken and the egg problem. Brown was given no shooters to work with.
 
itzcoatl said:
I have criticized Hinkie on this board before, but the GMs running Philadelphia (particularly Colangelo) totally screwed that team up. There disappointing season is not the coach's fault. I like Brown. Players seemed to like him. I'm not sure he's the right guy though, until we figure out who the new GM is. I like the idea, in theory.
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He ignored everyone as people pleaded with him to space around Embiid and join the rest of the NBA in the 21st century. Walton should be joining that club next if a brain suddenly appears in Sacramento to run things.
 
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upinsmoke said:
Philly never gave him the tools he needed to make it work with Simmons and Imbiid.
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They had Jimmy Butler on top off everything else last year and got him a good big in Horford for his motion system as a replacement. No way can he say they didn't give him the tools. He refused to adjust his system when the time came with injuries and once teams figured him out. I do think Embiid and Simmons are overrated but few teams have had a talent combination that team has had over the last 2 seasons.
 
itzcoatl said:
I agree, but it's kind of a chicken and the egg problem. Brown was given no shooters to work with.
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I haven't followed them super closely but didn't Brown have a ton of sway in their roster decisions? And much like the Kings unfortunately for him the best way for him to space was going to be playing small, not big. I will say, that article on Waltons playsets at least show you what a competent multi-option coach Brown is. Browns playbook looks like War and Peace compared to Walton's version that is most similar to Green Eggs and Ham lol. in then end, both books are wrong for this Kings core.
 
I'm not sure whether Brown had a role in decisions. But if so, yikes. 76ers decision making looks real bad since Hinkie left.
 
Let's get Hinkie and Brown and tank for the next 3-5 seasons then fire the coach in 7 when we come to the same conclusion Philly did.

Or umm, pass.
Sorry, I just don't think he's a good coach.

Also, we need to focus on hiring the right GM. I don't think that process should be rushed, or we'll wind up losing out on whatever window Fox and Bagley have together if we make a rash decision and just give it to a guy like Perry without an exhaustive search with multiple interviews and candidates. Once we have hired someone with a vision I trust they will find the right coach to execute it.
 
Seriously, I’d rather have Becky Hammon and take a chance on her. Atkinson is a good choice. Someone new who if given the opportunity can be the next Nick Nurse or Taylor Jenkins or Damn, dare I say Micheal Malone.
 
Joeger is a candidate for that 76ers job. Wouldn't it be poetic if Joeger gets the job and Buddy is traded there. :cool:

And if they kept the roster as is, Joeger has the grit and grind background to win with two bigs (Embid and Horford) and elite defending guards/wings (Simmons & Thybulle).
 
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seems a case of "grass is always greener". I mean I'm sort of a "never Luke" so I wouldn't mind... but I'm not sure his career has been impressive given what he had to work with.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Let's get Hinkie and Brown and tank for the next 3-5 seasons then fire the coach in 7 when we come to the same conclusion Philly did.

Or umm, pass.
Sorry, I just don't think he's a good coach.

Also, we need to focus on hiring the right GM. I don't think that process should be rushed, or we'll wind up losing out on whatever window Fox and Bagley have together if we make a rash decision and just give it to a guy like Perry without an exhaustive search with multiple interviews and candidates. Once we have hired someone with a vision I trust they will find the right coach to execute it.
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Yes that’s definitely what happens in Philadelphia you nailed it
 
No

what adjustments did he ever make? He’s been awful in every post season, looking dazed and confused on the sidelines.
 
Joshoua said:
Yes that’s definitely what happens in Philadelphia you nailed it
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One of the few bits of enjoyment the last decade has been the schadenfreude of watching Philly basically blow up the process by trading their pick-swap and that stupid albatross #1 they got from us to draft Fultz #1 overall. Their apparent good fortune and ownership of the Kings leading to their downfall, I'm cool with that. But I had ethical issues with the process to begin with.

I've long said that I don't think Sac fans have the stomach to undergo a multi year intentional tank - everyone wanted to be where they were 2-3 seasons ago, but I think those people aren't season ticket holders (as an MLS season ticket holder a single down season is an effing miserable experience and the cost to buy into that is a whole lot less than NBA tickets - if the team told me "hey all, we're going to suck for 3-4 years to accumulate draft capital" I'd cancel immediately). But a decade later look at where we are. They are bounced in the first round of the playoffs - essentially right where they started when they blew up. They aren't going to sniff a championship let alone the finals and Embiid may be sending signals he wants out.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
One of the few bits of enjoyment the last decade has been the schadenfreude of watching Philly basically blow up the process by trading their pick-swap and that stupid albatross #1 they got from us to draft Fultz #1 overall. Their apparent good fortune and ownership of the Kings leading to their downfall, I'm cool with that. But I had ethical issues with the process to begin with.

I've long said that I don't think Sac fans have the stomach to undergo a multi year intentional tank - everyone wanted to be where they were 2-3 seasons ago, but I think those people aren't season ticket holders (as an MLS season ticket holder a single down season is an effing miserable experience and the cost to buy into that is a whole lot less than NBA tickets - if the team told me "hey all, we're going to suck for 3-4 years to accumulate draft capital" I'd cancel immediately). But a decade later look at where we are. They are bounced in the first round of the playoffs - essentially right where they started when they blew up. They aren't going to sniff a championship let alone the finals and Embiid may be sending signals he wants out.
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This contradicts your other post
 
Joshoua said:
This contradicts your other post
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I guess if the sarcasm meter is turned off? Otherwise I'm not sure how. I've consistently been a vocal opponent of "the process" and wished I could personally damn Philly to basketball hell over it. That it looked like it was going to pay off before the Fultz debacle and the subsequent trading of every piece that isn't Simmons or Embiid drove me up the wall.

eta: to be clear I've never been against a tank when you hit the spot in the season when it is clear it didn't work out and it's established you are going to be in the lottery. but a multi year, intentional effort to put a JV product on the court to gain high draft picks is not fair to paying ticket holders or anyone who has to spend money to watch their team. Maybe if they refunded season ticket prices and just charged concessions I could accept that. If you spend thousands of dollars on season tickets for a team that isn't even trying, are locked into 40 some odd games a season, and it lasts 3-5 years before they even try? That's grand theft.
 
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kb02 said:
Joeger is a candidate for that 76ers job. Wouldn't it be poetic if Joeger gets the job and Buddy is traded there. :cool:

And if they kept the roster as is, Joeger has the grit and grind background to win with two bigs (Embid and Horford) and elite defending guards/wings (Simmons & Thybulle).
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What would be even more funny is they dumped the guy who is really good at running the same system as Joerger for, well... Joerger. That's true Kangz by the sixers if it went down! haha.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I guess if the sarcasm meter is turned off? Otherwise I'm not sure how. I've consistently been a vocal opponent of "the process" and wished I could personally damn Philly to basketball hell over it. That it looked like it was going to pay off before the Fultz debacle and the subsequent trading of every piece that isn't Simmons or Embiid drove me up the wall.

eta: to be clear I've never been against a tank when you hit the spot in the season when it is clear it didn't work out and it's established you are going to be in the lottery. but a multi year, intentional effort to put a JV product on the court to gain high draft picks is not fair to paying ticket holders or anyone who has to spend money to watch their team. Maybe if they refunded season ticket prices and just charged concessions I could accept that. If you spend thousands of dollars on season tickets for a team that isn't even trying, are locked into 40 some odd games a season, and it lasts 3-5 years before they even try? That's grand theft.
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I see where your coming from from a ticket stand point but I think that’s how small markets contend and that’s before ESPN starts pumping the players to LA
 
SacTownKid said:
What would be even more funny is they dumped the guy who is really good at running the same system as Joerger for, well... Joerger. That's true Kangz by the sixers if it went down! haha.
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What's more ironic is the Kings firing Joerger for Walton when Joerger was actually doing a much better job than Luke is, at the style that is supposedly Luke's strength. That's Kangz.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Philly improved under Joerger, he would hold players accountable. Guess we would get to see which side of KF is right about Joerger.
 
Dime Dropper said:
What's more ironic is the Kings firing Joerger for Walton when Joerger was actually doing a much better job than Luke is, at the style that is supposedly Luke's strength. That's Kangz.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Philly improved under Joerger, he would hold players accountable. Guess we would get to see which side of KF is right about Joerger.
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He’ll last 3-4 years and move on
 
Dime Dropper said:
What's more ironic is the Kings firing Joerger for Walton when Joerger was actually doing a much better job than Luke is, at the style that is supposedly Luke's strength. That's Kangz.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if Philly improved under Joerger, he would hold players accountable. Guess we would get to see which side of KF is right about Joerger.
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Walton was for sure a GM guy. Hand plucked by Vlade and that unfortunately for him was his undoing. Joerger lost his team here and if Brown did the same in Philly then any new voice could be a positive if they just stay out of the way of what was already working. I'm not sure Brown lost his team though. Maybe he did towards the end. Any coach that sticks to his guns and doesn't show much in the way of versatility should be OK with enough talent and the right talent. Joerger isn't universally a crap coach. I don't think any NBA coach truly is. The game is talent based and a lot of times coaches simply not stepping out of the way until it's time to step in is the issue. Some coaches that are more cheerleader than coach go onto to have much better runs in certain places rather than the "genius" gameplanners. Like I've said before, look at Phil Jackson. Greatest coach of all time right? In NY his players didn't want to nor could they run Triangle. Down in flames he went. Walton looked like world beater with the Dubs! Well, guess that was all autopilot like everyone thought. He could be a great coach for an all star level team but when it comes to noodle time so far so bad.
 
SacTownKid said:
Not if he runs that same offense. He got fired for many of the same reasons (and basic horn set calls that cause spacing issues) that you should be letting Walton go for. Fox is probably less of a problem than Simmons was for Brown in that offense but again, you have players in Simmons and Fox that operate better with spacing and a coach that wanted to overwhelm teams with size, two centers, and a 6'10" PG while playing in the middle of the floor with off ball action. They somewhat had a roster that could make it work for him, that offense would honestly be even worse than Waltons with the Kings roster since at least Walton kicks it back a few feet to the 3 point line. The Kings don't have an Embiid or a Horford to make it work. Imagine replacing Embiid and Horford who have developed perimeter games with Bagley and Holmes? Yikes. That could be bad. Totally different types of players.
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I don't have any feelings one way or the other in regards to Brown, but I think your being a bit unfair to him. He didn't put that roster together. He didn't go out and sign Holford, who I really like, but putting him in the lineup with Embiid and Simmons, and really only one player that could spread the floor in Harris, was doomed from the start. But what else was he to do? All those players were being paid big bucks, so he had to play them. As far as Bagley and Holmes goes, Bagley starts and Holmes comes off the bench as his backup.

Philly's problem was that they didn't have enough 3pt shooters so it was easy to defend them. So I really don't know how good or bad a coach Brown is. My personal choice would be Jay Wright from Villanova. I suspect he wouldn't leave a place where he's considered a god. Unless he feels he's done everything he can at Villanova and wants a new challenge. He's more likely to take the Philly job since it's where he lives.
 
bajaden said:
I don't have any feelings one way or the other in regards to Brown, but I think your being a bit unfair to him. He didn't put that roster together. He didn't go out and sign Holford, who I really like, but putting him in the lineup with Embiid and Simmons, and really only one player that could spread the floor in Harris, was doomed from the start. But what else was he to do? All those players were being paid big bucks, so he had to play them. As far as Bagley and Holmes goes, Bagley starts and Holmes comes off the bench as his backup.

Philly's problem was that they didn't have enough 3pt shooters so it was easy to defend them. So I really don't know how good or bad a coach Brown is. My personal choice would be Jay Wright from Villanova. I suspect he wouldn't leave a place where he's considered a god. Unless he feels he's done everything he can at Villanova and wants a new challenge. He's more likely to take the Philly job since it's where he lives.
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I was speaking specifically in relation to his system and the Kings mostly. I'm not sure what the deal was with the roster moves, but I do know he let his team sink in some of the same ways Walton let his team sink as people were wondering when the adjustment was coming. The choice was playing small, or at least giving it a shot. He stayed mostly big, and continued to hammer his principles at the other team as they wadded them up in a nice tight little ball and firmly deposited them right back where they came from. They didn't have a ton of shooters but there was enough there to be OK. I think as Kings fans we understand the frustration of watching someone continue to try and move a mountain with mind power. And yes, to his credit, Brown is an excellent coach for the system he runs but that system is already a proven disaster for the roster that sits with the Kings currently. He could be a coach that adjusts to his talent and/or situation, but he certainly didn't even after his 2nd star went down so... I'll pass.
 
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