Brad Miller discussion

[upinsmoke]

Okay so here it is im going to lay it on the line and i know i will catch fire for this from most of you but i cant stand Brad miller going on for 2-3 years now. Granted he is playing better this year but i am still against miller being on the squad and i will support my comments.

For one he was brought in to play with chris and vlade but they have been gone for a long time now. Also for some reason he almost looks scared at taking his mid range jumper for a couple of years now. Another reason and the one that pisses me off the most is other teams look at our interior defence and they attack without remorse brad has no inside presence. Furthure more unless he is being set up he looks like a fish out of water attacking the basket and you have to admit that LOL. We are rebuilding right? so in fact his time has passed honestly i would not have a problem playing brad as a our 4 but he is to timid to play a 5 but fans adore him around these parts and give him soo much credit and i know why but thats another story.

 

[bajaden]

I know that I'm wasting my time, but here goes. He's averageing almost 10 rebounds a game. Thats part of being an inside presence. For the last 20 games or so, he's averageing a double double. He's one of the best passing centers in the league. I mean, look around the league and start naming the centers that are better than him. Whom do you wish to replace him with? Hawes is not ready to start in the NBA. How many centers in the western conference are better than him? In my opinion its a short list.
Would I rather have Duncan or Ming? Sure, but they don't grow on trees.

 

[RunNGun]

Brad Miller is fine for now because his numbers are great and he might be the best mentor in the league for Spencer Hawes right now. Miller is the best passing center in the league bar none right now and will likely be one of the top 5 passing centers in NBA history. If we started Spencer now he may realize that he's not ready and that could get into a young man's head and slow his development.

The other problem is that Miller's trade value is not as high as his value to this team. Yes, we could probably get expiring contracts for him, but the overall effectiveness of this team would take a dive. With know big name point guard to pass the ball Miller becomes our facilitator. We might be rebuilding but i'll stop watching games if I knew that the Kings were going to lose every night (and the Maloofs won't keep a team in Sacramento that doesn't have an audience).

Face it, Miller will be around till his contract expires and Hawes will have enough experience to take on his starting role. Who knows, the Kings might resign him to a smaller contract to play off the bench for Hawes.

 

[VF21]

Okay so here it is im going to lay it on the line and i know i will catch fire for this from most of you but i cant stand Brad miller going on for 2-3 years now. Granted he is playing better this year but i am still against miller being on the squad and i will support my comments.

For one he was brought in to play with chris and vlade but they have been gone for a long time now. Also for some reason he almost looks scared at taking his mid range jumper for a couple of years now. Another reason and the one that pisses me off the most is other teams look at our interior defence and they attack without remorse brad has no inside presence. Furthure more unless he is being set up he looks like a fish out of water attacking the basket and you have to admit that LOL. We are rebuilding right? so in fact his time has passed honestly i would not have a problem playing brad as a our 4 but he is to timid to play a 5 but fans adore him around these parts and give him soo much credit and i know why but thats another story.

Okay, here's the deal:

1. Your first point is wrong. He wasn't brought in to play with Vlade; he was brought in to REPLACE Vlade, which is what he has done.

2. He has looked pretty comfortable this year taking his jumper. Do you actually watch any games?

3. Brad Miller is not a power forward. He is a center and one of the best passing centers in the game today.

You can argue for moving his contract or moving him to make room for Spencer, but to act as though he's stinking up the place is just plain silly.

It always amuses me when people start out their posts with comments about knowing they'll be flamed almost as though they're hoping it happens. Well, you won't be flamed here but you also won't be given much credit if you can't bring more substance to a discussion than what you're posted so far.

 

[Smills91]

Okay so here it is im going to lay it on the line and i know i will catch fire for this from most of you but i cant stand Brad miller going on for 2-3 years now. Granted he is playing better this year but i am still against miller being on the squad and i will support my comments.

For one he was brought in to play with chris and vlade but they have been gone for a long time now. Also for some reason he almost looks scared at taking his mid range jumper for a couple of years now. Another reason and the one that pisses me off the most is other teams look at our interior defence and they attack without remorse brad has no inside presence. Furthure more unless he is being set up he looks like a fish out of water attacking the basket and you have to admit that LOL. We are rebuilding right? so in fact his time has passed honestly i would not have a problem playing brad as a our 4 but he is to timid to play a 5 but fans adore him around these parts and give him soo much credit and i know why but thats another story.

I lost you at this point. The rest is just frivolous diatribe.

 

[upinsmoke]

LOL so yo guys just look the other way when other teams attack our paint right and you guys say im not watching the games HAHA. BTW if anyone went to the open practice i was the guy that screamed "TRADE MILLER" after GP made his little thank you for coming speech the whole arena heard me because for some reason it got pin drop silent LOL.

 

[VF21]

LOL!

Somehow, hearing that you were the loud mouth who made a fool of himself at the open practice doesn't surprise me.

 

[bloom]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I have to strongly disagree with you on trading Brad. Sure Brad has his weaknesses but I think he has some strong qualities that help this team and the young players that we have.

I know the word rebuild can have many different meanings and I know that some people (or a lot) want to do what Seattle has done but I don’t. I think a combination of a couple vets and some kids would be good. That way the vets can teach the young guys a thing or two (the kids can mature faster and become united quicker). Miller to me is the only vet that has a skill set that others on our team lack (Sure Cisco is passing more and Kevin but they don't pass it like Brad)– Passing and looking for the open man constantly. He’s such an unselfish player that I can’t stand to lose him. What do we gain by trading him, a draft picks and another useless player? If so, no thanks. Miller does more good right now than bad. He can teach Hawes to be something similar to Brad’s game.

We have Ron and John that present the “me” game. Why not get rid of those two cause that attitude is contagious among other players. I want Team ball not selfish ball. People who stall the offense just kills the team and our momentum.

Sure, Brad does kinda look different when he decides to slam it. But I love it! It gets me pumped. I wish he would do it more often.

 

[VF21]

Good points, bloom, and one additional bonus. Right about the time Hawes could truly be coming into his own, Miller becomes a HUGE expiring contract should the Kings decide to use him in that manner. I'd like to see him stay here but I'm realistic enough to understand the business side.

 

[upinsmoke]

Sure Miller gets his rebounds because he is a vet and understands positioning and yes he does set up his teamates with decent looks. My opinion is that brad is a soft player. Bloom you mentioned getting rid of ron honestly do you know how BAD we would stink this year without him it would be soo much worse , we need a Banger type player like ron. I think maybe a trade with the knicks and eddie curry would work out since new york has expressed interest in dealing him imagine this.

5.Curry
4.Artest (yes moving ron up one)
3.Cisco
2.Martin
1.Beno ( man i would love to get Ben Gordon)

 

[Entity]

OMG have you seen curry play defense? He can't block shots doesn't rebound and his idea of defense is putting on extra deodorant before going out to the New York clubs. He has the body and the tools to be an awesome Center in the NBA yet he has the brain of a squirel and the work etheic of a sloth. No thanks I'll take a 38 year old miller over a 20 year old Curry.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Sure Miller gets his rebounds because he is a vet and understands positioning and yes he does set up his teamates with decent looks. My opinion is that brad is a soft player. Bloom you mentioned getting rid of ron honestly do you know how BAD we would stink this year without him it would be soo much worse , we need a Banger type player like ron. I think maybe a trade with the knicks and eddie curry would work out since new york has expressed interest in dealing him imagine this.

5.Curry
4.Artest (yes moving ron up one)
3.Cisco
2.Martin
1.Beno ( man i would love to get Ben Gordon)

You're upset about Miller being soft and not protecting the paint and then you go and say you want Curry? I'm sorry, I have doubts about whether you're actually a serious poster and not just some person trying to stir up some argument.

And that lineup is scary. Scary bad.

 

[bloom]

Thanks VF

Sure Miller gets his rebounds because he is a vet and understands positioning and yes he does set up his teamates with decent looks. My opinion is that brad is a soft player. Bloom you mentioned getting rid of ron honestly do you know how BAD we would stink this year without him it would be soo much worse , we need a Banger type player like ron. I think maybe a trade with the knicks and eddie curry would work out since new york has expressed interest in dealing him imagine this.

5.Curry
4.Artest (yes moving ron up one)
3.Cisco
2.Martin
1.Beno ( man i would love to get Ben Gordon)

We were pretty bad without Ron in the first seven games he was out and yeah he does bring another dimension to the team, no question about that. He can go take it right to the hoop and he has a tough body. But he’s too much of a one-on-one player, let me save the team kinda guy. He stalls the offense (like I mentioned before), sometimes over dribbles/doesn’t pass, has yelled at the coach (which has an effect on the other players around him). You say our record might be bad without him and you might be right, but I did notice something this year that I really liked and it was without Ron. In the month of December Ron was out and so was Mike. Kevin came off the bench after returning from his injury. Did you watch those games? Because I loved that team, we were starting to jell. The chemistry was finally grooving at that time. There was no Ron and no Mike. We were playing like we were having a blast on the court (we even beat the Mavs without Ron). I could do with losing games, but as long as the team has fun, shares the ball and plays hard. Plus if we traded him we would have gotten a different player. Someone who could help this team in a united way and he doesn’t need to be a banger.

Even though we don’t agree on Brad and Ron. I think we agree on Ben Gordon. I’d love to have him. So if the Bulls are willing to do a trade with us for *cough*John*cough*Ron*cough* I would be so excited.

 

[upinsmoke]

curry would be a great addition to the squad i know he does not block a lot of shots but there is a reason for that which is he changes alot of shots because of his presence. Honestly if he would just get in shape he would be a beast.

BTW you guys always talk about trading artest in case you have not noticed almost nobody will touch him because of his history.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'll admit it, I was very down on Miller last year. He was just plain awful. This year has been night and day. It seems like he actually cares this year. Unless a no brainer deal comes along I think it best to let Brad mentor Hawes or any future big until his contract is up and that chunk of change comes off the books.

 

[Bricklayer]

Nothing has changed with Brad, except that he found enough pride to prepare himself like a professional. And kudos to him. But from our perspective the rules are the same: Brad Miller will not be the starting center for the next great Kings team. He's 32 in a month which means he has a couple of years left tops as a major player. His time is almost up, and his contract is a monster. So he has to go. And with his better play, there is even a reasonable chance we get back something of value in the deal now too. Brad's soft jumpshooting game is ill suited for the playoffs, but a team looking for an extra piece to get in, or a roleplayer to put them over the top, could chance taking that leap now.

Hawes is starting to show flashes now. We are out of the playoffs, have another lottery pick coming. If Spenser shows enough in the last 6 weeks, that should be your starting center to begin next season.

 

[upinsmoke]

it just makes me sick to my stomach when our paint gets attacked i wish i could show you a copy of other teams scouting reports.

 

[Spike]

I hesitated posting earlier, since I didn't think this thread would go anywhere good.

curry would be a great addition to the squad i know he does not block a lot of shots but there is a reason for that which is he changes alot of shots because of his presence. Honestly if he would just get in shape he would be a beast.

And how has his presence impacted the NY Knickerbockers?

Eddy Curry:
Max Total Rebounds Per Game: 7.0 in 2006-2007
Max Blocks Per Game: 1.1 in 2003-2004

Brad Miller:
Current Total Rebounds Per Game: 9.7 (Max 10.3 in '03-'04)
Max Blocks Per Game: 1.2 (Current 1.0)

For fun - Oliver Miller:
Max Total Rebounds Per Game: 7.4 in 1994-1995
Max Blocks Per Game: 2.3 in 1994-1995

Miller is a proven winner. Maybe not a championship winner, but he knows what it takes to win, and it isn't about "making the players respect you." Miller has at least shown that he can rediscover a work ethic necessary to get back to a productive level.

Curry may never live up to his "potential," nor has he shown any work ethic whatsoever. Horacio Llamas also changed a lot of shots because of his presence...think about that one for a while. Oliver Miller pnws (yes, I used pwns) Eddy Curry. Let that sink in.

There has to be a more compelling reason as to why you want to trade Brad. BTW, I believe Brad should remain to continue mentoring Hawes for at least the next year. If a good trade comes along as mentioned before, sure, the NBA is a business. But don't get rid of him just to dump salary.

 

[Bricklayer]

As an aside, if getting killed inteh paint defensively is your issue, Eddie Curry is roughly the LAST man you would want manning the middle. He has a big man;s post game, but defensively and on the glass he makes Brad look like Bill Russell.

 

[bajaden]

This entire thread started out bordering on lunacy, and degererated even farther with the mention of Eddie Curry. I'm on the verge of leaving civility so, with that said, I shall retire from this conservation.

 

[upinsmoke]

i see curry evolving into a force but i did not mean to make curry the center of the discussion. What i am saying is miller needs to be moved heck i would let miller go for a draft pick im sick of his style of play we gave it a shot it has not worked out its time to move on.

 

[Heuge]

i see curry evolving into a force but i did not mean to make curry the center of the discussion. What i am saying is miller needs to be moved heck i would let miller go for a draft pick im sick of his style of play we gave it a shot it has not worked out its time to move on.

Capitals, commas, periods, less fragments, etc.

 

[Gary]

Sure Miller gets his rebounds because he is a vet and understands positioning and yes he does set up his teamates with decent looks. My opinion is that brad is a soft player. Bloom you mentioned getting rid of ron honestly do you know how BAD we would stink this year without him it would be soo much worse , we need a Banger type player like ron. I think maybe a trade with the knicks and eddie curry would work out since new york has expressed interest in dealing him imagine this.

5.Curry
4.Artest (yes moving ron up one)
3.Cisco
2.Martin
1.Beno ( man i would love to get Ben Gordon)

Wow. I just imagined that "lineup" and threw up in my mouth a little... Trade Brad for a center that sucks.. Curry does one thing.. Post up shots.. He's good at that, but he is the worst center in the league at rebounding, blocking shots, and is the most unmotivated soft jackass in the league. For you to even say you would want him over Brad just ruined whatever credibility you "had" lol..

You do realize that Ron isn't a very good rebounder at the 4, and Curry is the worst in the league at the 5 right? So our leading rebounder will be Garcia.. Yah... We would probably give up 70 second chance points a game with that lineup lol.

 

[fnordius]

I think that Curry would be a fine choice for improving our draft position next year, if he were an ender, but his contract runs until the end of 2011. Nobody needs to tank that long.

 

[upinsmoke]

so what miami lay up/dunk do you think was millers favorite today guys? LOL thank god artest is in white and purple and beno had a great game.

 

[Gary]

so what miami lay up/dunk do you think was millers favorite today guys? LOL thank god artest is in white and purple and beno had a great game.

Brad is not the best guy at clogging up the middle. But Curry isn't the answer either. He actually isn't even better than Miller at that.

The way Miami was playing today I think they would have drove on anyone and been successful in the first half. The second half we adjusted so everything was A'OK

 

[upinsmoke]

Brad is not the best guy at clogging up the middle. But Curry isn't the answer either. He actually isn't even better than Miller at that.

The way Miami was playing today I think they would have drove on anyone and been successful in the first half. The second half we adjusted so everything was A'OK

Whatever you say buddy

 

[VF21]

i see curry evolving into a force but i did not mean to make curry the center of the discussion. What i am saying is miller needs to be moved heck i would let miller go for a draft pick im sick of his style of play we gave it a shot it has not worked out its time to move on.

Luckily, you're not Geoff Petrie.

 

[upinsmoke]

yea a soft as a marshmallow center would have been moved 2 years ago. Also every team in the nba would think twice about driving down the paint like they do. A good contact would be offered to Artest (whether he takes it or not ) Douby would be traded along with Salmons. Last but not least Kenny thomas and Shareef would be bought out. YEA THANK GOODNESS HUH!

 

[Gary]

Ever notice where Artest gets his 4 assists per game from? He holds the ball for 20 seconds, and if he can't create his own shot he passes the ball to someone who has to quickly shoot it or the 24 second shot expires. Sometimes they make it, sometimes the miss, but if they make it Artest gets an assist. Kind of negates what an assist means eh? They should change the stat just for Artest from "Assist" to "Couldn't find my own shot so I passed the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock".

Your right though. I would want Artest to stay IF, and only IF we turned the Kings into a half court team, and Artest became our "Kobe Bryant" like he always wanted to be. If we did that though, we would have to surround Artest with a bunch of other players who wouldn't mind that Artest holds the ball for the majority of the shot clock. If that means trading Miller, Martin, Garcia, Beno than so be it.

Now if you want to see some GOOD basketball and watch our team pass the ball to one another, and get open shots than we all know what needs to happen, and who needs to be traded *ahem* Artest *Ahem*

Look, I know you think it means everything to have a center who won't let anyone lay the ball up, but there is more to basketball than just stopping someone from dunking the ball or laying it up. Miller is the best passing center in the league. Best by far. Miller is probably one of the top 5 centers in the league in BBall IQ, and knowing what the heck is going on on the offensive end. His offense makes up for lack of D, and most of us here at kingsfans agree that if we were to get a PF that could do some of the things that Miller cannot do than we will be fine. It's a team game, and we need all of our players to play a role, and on the offensive end Miller plays that role better than most centers in the league.