Bosh asks fans where he should go

#2
Yeah I follow him. This is what I sent:

"Kings fans love your game. I personally believe you could turn my team into a contender. Kings are in good shape for the future."


Doin' my part to shape the future of this franchise. ;)
 
#6
As I've stated before I don't think there is any chance that Bosh stays in Toronto. And to me, the fact that he's willing to put this to question in Twitter, shows that he's leaning on moving on towards greener pastures.

The simple fact is that Toronto is never going to win a championship while Bosh is there and he knows it.

Next year Toronto has 31.6 million dollars tied up in four players who are all on guaranteed contracts through 2012/2013. These players are:

Hedo: 9.8 Million
Calderon: 9 Million
Bargnani: 8 Million
Jack: 4.8 Million

So if you add 16 million for Bosh' salarary you're at 48 million dollars in
salary for these five players, leaving you with around 8 million to round out your team (and they are actually over at 63 million for next year). And that 48 million will increase by around 5 million each year as each of these five player's salaries increase.

These five couldn't even make the playoffs this year, and they would be stuck with each other for three more seasons if Bosh resigns.

So if Bosh wants to win, he's going to have to leave Toronto, as the situation there is really bad if you're hoping to get into championship contention.

The question then is where might Bosh go. As I've discussed in other threads, if Bosh decides he doesn't want to play with LBJ or Wade, then the best location for him would be in Chicago. But if he really doesn't want to live in a cold weather town, then the next best location would be Sacramento (depending on who we get in the draft).

It will be interesting to see how this FA year plays out.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#7
As I've stated before I don't think there is any chance that Bosh stays in Toronto. And to me, the fact that he's willing to put this to question in Twitter, shows that he's leaning on moving on towards greener pastures.

The simple fact is that Toronto is never going to win a championship while Bosh is there and he knows it.

Next year Toronto has 31.6 million dollars tied up in four players who are all on guaranteed contracts through 2012/2013. These players are:

Hedo: 9.8 Million
Calderon: 9 Million
Bargnani: 8 Million
Jack: 4.8 Million

So if you add 16 million for Bosh' salarary you're at 48 million dollars in
salary for these five players, leaving you with around 8 million to round out your team (and they are actually over at 63 million for next year). And that 48 million will increase by around 5 million each year as each of these five player's salaries increase.

These five couldn't even make the playoffs this year, and they would be stuck with each other for three more seasons if Bosh resigns.

So if Bosh wants to win, he's going to have to leave Toronto, as the situation there is really bad if you're hoping to get into championship contention.

The question then is where might Bosh go. As I've discussed in other threads, if Bosh decides he doesn't want to play with LBJ or Wade, then the best location for him would be in Chicago. But if he really doesn't want to live in a cold weather town, then the next best location would be Sacramento (depending on who we get in the draft).

It will be interesting to see how this FA year plays out.
Reading the Toronto newspapers, and saw where the Raptors FO is already floating the idea of a sign and trade. Makes sense for them. They know he's leaving, so why not try and get at least something in return.

Now from what I've read, they would be looking for someone to replace Bosh, but not with a huge salary. As you pointed out, they're already strapped capwise. A couple of problems with this plan. First, Bosh has to agree to go to the team they're trading with or its a no deal. Second, the team has to have what the Raptors are looking for and not just some scrub thats a throw in. Third, since the salaries won't be able to match because Bosh will be signing for the max, and they want someone in the 3 mil range in return, the team they're trading with would have to be significantly under the cap.

Now I realize that there are teams out there like the Knicks and Miami and the Nets that are under the cap. I'm sure there are others as well. But most of the main teams have cleaned house and little left that the Raptors would want. Its been reported that the Raptors have interest in Jordan Hill and that Bosh has mentioned Houston as a team he might be interested in. Only one problem. Houston is over the cap already for next season so there is no way they could do this deal.

You can probably see where I'm going with this. The Kings have two of the three requirements already. They have the cap space to absorb Bosh's salary. They have two PF's that make chump change in Landry and Thompson. Let them take their choice. All they would need is for Bosh to agree. That of course is the tricky part. Because he really doesn't have to do anything. So the Maloff's would have to do a great selling job. We do have the current rooking of the year, and were likely to add another good player through the draft. Just a thought!...
 
#8
A great point regarding a sign-and-trade.

If I were Toronto I'd be doing everything in my power to find a way to use Bosh as an asset to help the team. Sure they can just let him walk for nothing, but as mentioned, they are already over the cap, so they couldn't sign a big-time FA even if they could get one to agree to come over.

Would I do a sign-and-trade to get Bosh over? In a heartbeat. And the nice thing about sign-and-trades in this situation is because Bosh would have to agree to the sign-and-trade he can put in leverage to ensure that the team he is being traded to is in a favorable situation.

So for example if Toronto wanted us to give them both JT and Casspi, Bosh could basically indicate that he wouldn't agree to the trade unless Casspi is on the team. Or the Kings could say that they wanted to trade JT + Nocioni for Bosh, and if Bosh bought in to the scenario, it would help in possibly moving Nocioni.

The Kings definitely have the pieces to make it work, but in this situation it would be completely dependent on the Maloofs and Petrie to woo Bosh and convince him that the Kings have a chance to follow the same upward trajectory as the Thunder.

But if we somehow went into next season with Evans, Turner, & Bosh along with Greene/Landry/Garcia/Udrih/Casspi/Hawes the minimal expectation should be for a 45+ win season. See if you can trade Beno for Gortat and you'd be set.
 
#9
He is a prime free agent. We are not good enough yet to attract this kinda talent.

[homerism] A team with the reigning ROY, a 6th man of the year candidate to back Bosh up, a top-5 pick and a handful of role players to support him? I think we are a good destination for a young free agent looking to build a team around him. I think the guys looking to go to a ready-to-win team are the older ring-chasing vets who have a shorter window and need to win now. Coming to a team like the Kings would give a young free agent a longer window of time to win in. [/homerism]

but yeah we're still a small market without much to offer in a sign and trade. but if bosh is looking to sign somewhere straight up if the S&T prospects fall through, i don't see why Sacramento couldn't be on the short list
 
#10
Reading the Toronto newspapers, and saw where the Raptors FO is already floating the idea of a sign and trade. Makes sense for them. They know he's leaving, so why not try and get at least something in return.

Now from what I've read, they would be looking for someone to replace Bosh, but not with a huge salary. As you pointed out, they're already strapped capwise. A couple of problems with this plan. First, Bosh has to agree to go to the team they're trading with or its a no deal. Second, the team has to have what the Raptors are looking for and not just some scrub thats a throw in. Third, since the salaries won't be able to match because Bosh will be signing for the max, and they want someone in the 3 mil range in return, the team they're trading with would have to be significantly under the cap.

Now I realize that there are teams out there like the Knicks and Miami and the Nets that are under the cap. I'm sure there are others as well. But most of the main teams have cleaned house and little left that the Raptors would want. Its been reported that the Raptors have interest in Jordan Hill and that Bosh has mentioned Houston as a team he might be interested in. Only one problem. Houston is over the cap already for next season so there is no way they could do this deal.

You can probably see where I'm going with this. The Kings have two of the three requirements already. They have the cap space to absorb Bosh's salary. They have two PF's that make chump change in Landry and Thompson. Let them take their choice. All they would need is for Bosh to agree. That of course is the tricky part. Because he really doesn't have to do anything. So the Maloff's would have to do a great selling job. We do have the current rooking of the year, and were likely to add another good player through the draft. Just a thought!...
Baja, why would Bosh be interested in a sign-and-trade situation? He is a UFA. He can go to wherever he wants without any limitations. May be I do not understand this free-agency thing fully but he is a free man now and there are plenty of under-the-cap teams in solid markets. Does he need that S and T?
 
#11
[homerism] A team with the reigning ROY, a 6th man of the year candidate to back Bosh up, a top-5 pick and a handful of role players to support him? I think we are a good destination for a young free agent looking to build a team around him. I think the guys looking to go to a ready-to-win team are the older ring-chasing vets who have a shorter window and need to win now. Coming to a team like the Kings would give a young free agent a longer window of time to win in. [/homerism]

but yeah we're still a small market without much to offer in a sign and trade. but if bosh is looking to sign somewhere straight up if the S&T prospects fall through, i don't see why Sacramento couldn't be on the short list
Yes, we have some young talented guys, ROY, famous owners and a Top-5 pick and I think we are all excited about the Kings.

However, RIGHT NOW, we are the third worst team in NBA, with arena and possible relocation issues and we are still a small market. We have a chance to be good soon but when?
Being young and promising is good BUT it has to be an Oklahoma-like situation (young, promising and good ALREADY). We can be like that in 2 years and then we have a chance to grab a big name. IMO.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#12
Baja, why would Bosh be interested in a sign-and-trade situation? He is a UFA. He can go to wherever he wants without any limitations. May be I do not understand this free-agency thing fully but he is a free man now and there are plenty of under-the-cap teams in solid markets. Does he need that S and T?
He's under no obligation to agree to a sign and trade. However in the past, players that have been with one team for a long period of time are sometimes willing to help that team, if both sides can find a trade thats mutually acceptable. I'm sure that Wade would be willing to agree to a sign and trade as long as he gets his money and also gets to go to a destination of his desire.

In the case of Bosh, it would be up to the Kings organization to convince him that coming here would be in his best interests. It might be a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Sacramento may be a small market, but remember. They're a bigger market than San Antonio, Portland, Utah, Memphis and a few others. Some of those I just mentioned are fairly appealing. The main thing you would have to convince him of is that the Kings are a team on the rise and that he could be the difference maker.
 
#13
He's under no obligation to agree to a sign and trade. However in the past, players that have been with one team for a long period of time are sometimes willing to help that team, if both sides can find a trade thats mutually acceptable. I'm sure that Wade would be willing to agree to a sign and trade as long as he gets his money and also gets to go to a destination of his desire.

In the case of Bosh, it would be up to the Kings organization to convince him that coming here would be in his best interests. It might be a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Sacramento may be a small market, but remember. They're a bigger market than San Antonio, Portland, Utah, Memphis and a few others. Some of those I just mentioned are fairly appealing. The main thing you would have to convince him of is that the Kings are a team on the rise and that he could be the difference maker.
The whole point of the sign and trade is so Bosh can get the extra year of guaranteed money that only the Raptors can sign him to, but still play for a different team via the trade.
 
#14
We are more attractive now than we were a few years ago with Tyreke showing he has the makings of a great player and a lot of other promising young players, but I will reiterate once again that we are not even close to a top destination.

The problem is that most of the other teams that will be in the market for Bosh, either with their cap space or via S&T, can boast an established star or two. No one on this Kings team has proven anything thus far outside of the regular season. The playoffs are when superstars are made and true character emerges, and we are coming off a 25 win season. Then you add to that the relatively modest media market and remaining question marks about whether the team will ever get an arena or move to a new city, and we just are not a destination to a top free agent. There are too many factors working against us at this time, none of which will change for a couple years at least.
 
#15
They're a bigger market than San Antonio, Portland, Utah, Memphis and a few others. Some of those I just mentioned are fairly appealing. The main thing you would have to convince him of is that the Kings are a team on the rise and that he could be the difference maker.
You are right. It is a disadvantage, not disqualification. And each market is different. For example, Orlando is a small market but it is a fun place to be in with a great winter weather and Memphis is NOT like that (I just do not want to say negative things). I want to say that some small markets (Portland, Orlando) are quite appealing even without endorsement $$$.

IMO we can attract a big name only if we have a good team that can win NOW a-la Oklahoma. And we are not like that yet. We can be that team pretty soon, I think in about 2 years.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
The whole point of the sign and trade is so Bosh can get the extra year of guaranteed money that only the Raptors can sign him to, but still play for a different team via the trade.


The above was a clean explanation of why players agree to sign and trades. If they sign elsewhere they can only take a 5 year contract. If they resign with the home team and get traded (S&T) they can sign for 6 years (because its their home team) but still get to go to antoher team. Can mean another $20mil in guaranteed money, which ain't chump change.

And yes, while other below cap teams can make their own offers -- NJ is looking to move Yi, Miami is looking to move Beasely, etc. -- if we could somehow pull that off without having to give up our #1 this year, while retianing let's say at least 3/5 of the JT/Hawes/Landry/Donte/Casspi group...you are talking real potential to make a run at the playoffs next season, if the #1 pic works out, potentially 50 wins in a couple of years. Join OKC and Portland (if they wever work their injuries out)as young bucks in the West for a long time.

However having Bosh and Jack loudly yell he wasn't coming to Sacto doesn't auger much. And with a team like Houston rumored to be hot and heavy after Bosh this summer (ironically looking to do the inside/ooutside softie things iht Bosh and Kevin that I was scheming about last summer) its difficult to see the attraction to Sacto for him. I htink long term his chances are better with us with Reke and a #1 than Houston wiht its scrawny backcourt and injury prone center, but basketball players aren't exactly a braniac bunuch, and long term rarely factors into their thinking.
 
#17
The above was a clean explanation of why players agree to sign and trades. If they sign elsewhere they can only take a 5 year contract. If they resign with the home team and get traded (S&T) they can sign for 6 years (because its their home team) but still get to go to antoher team. Can mean another $20mil in guaranteed money, which ain't chump change.
Good to know. Thanks, Bricklayer. S&T does make much more sense to me now.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#19
The whole point of the sign and trade is so Bosh can get the extra year of guaranteed money that only the Raptors can sign him to, but still play for a different team via the trade.
That would also be extra incentive, which with the new CBA coming could be more important than one might think.
 
#20
What if Toronto would only do a sign and trade if we will offer our top 3 pick for this year? Say pick Cousin and package with any scrub for Bosh. Would you do that?
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#21
We are more attractive now than we were a few years ago with Tyreke showing he has the makings of a great player and a lot of other promising young players, but I will reiterate once again that we are not even close to a top destination.

The problem is that most of the other teams that will be in the market for Bosh, either with their cap space or via S&T, can boast an established star or two. No one on this Kings team has proven anything thus far outside of the regular season. The playoffs are when superstars are made and true character emerges, and we are coming off a 25 win season. Then you add to that the relatively modest media market and remaining question marks about whether the team will ever get an arena or move to a new city, and we just are not a destination to a top free agent. There are too many factors working against us at this time, none of which will change for a couple years at least.
Well no one ever accomplished anything by thinking they couldn't do it. The whole point of being a good salesman is to convince someone to buy something they don't really need. The Maloofs are salesmen. So this would be a chance to show how good they are..

And remember, the whole point of a sign and trade for Toronto is to take back considerably less salary than they're trading. A great number of teams that have the salary cap space to do that, have virtually gutted their teams, leaving very little to trade that Toronto would want. Toronto is looking for a cheap, young PF that has some upside. Which is why they were interested in Hill. And as I stated, Houston doesn't have the cap space. One possibility might be Miami who could dangle Beasley at them.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#22
Bosh may not go for the S & T even for the extra $. It would weaken his destination team by subtracting talent.

KB
Not sure thats true. If we were to include one of either Thompson or Landry, or even perhaps depending on what they were looking for, Greene. It would be my opinion that it would be addition by substaction. Now if they were to start looking for two or three players, then you might be right.
 
#25
if we were to do a s&t it would have to be w/ hawes & another player (don't know if they would be willing to take noc on). it would be nice to pick up cousins or turner to round out the team.

cousins/JT
bosh/mandry
casspi/greene
beno/garcia
reke/beno

JT
bosh/mandry
casspi/greene
turner/garcia
reke/beno

we may be thin at the C position if we get rid of hawes and not draft a C.
 
#26
I think that the most common reasoning for a big time S & T is the guilt factor of the star player involved. These people may be out for their best interests, but I can't imagine them wanting to leave their original franchises out in the cold.
 
#27
In this case, it will be about money. he can get paid more in a S&T.

I think that the most common reasoning for a big time S & T is the guilt factor of the star player involved. These people may be out for their best interests, but I can't imagine them wanting to leave their original franchises out in the cold.
 
#28
He's under no obligation to agree to a sign and trade. However in the past, players that have been with one team for a long period of time are sometimes willing to help that team, if both sides can find a trade thats mutually acceptable. I'm sure that Wade would be willing to agree to a sign and trade as long as he gets his money and also gets to go to a destination of his desire.

In the case of Bosh, it would be up to the Kings organization to convince him that coming here would be in his best interests. It might be a long shot, but stranger things have happened. Sacramento may be a small market, but remember. They're a bigger market than San Antonio, Portland, Utah, Memphis and a few others. Some of those I just mentioned are fairly appealing. The main thing you would have to convince him of is that the Kings are a team on the rise and that he could be the difference maker.

Sacramento is the 16th largest media market in the nation, making it larger than half the other markets out there including places like Indianapolis, Denver, etc..

Sacramento is NOT a BIG city market, i.e. NY, LA, Chicago, etc. But it's NOT a small market team either, i.e. OKC, SLC, etc.

Quit having a small market attitude about this franchise.
 
#29
Sacramento is the 16th largest media market in the nation, making it larger than half the other markets out there including places like Indianapolis, Denver, etc..

Sacramento is NOT a BIG city market, i.e. NY, LA, Chicago, etc. But it's NOT a small market team either, i.e. OKC, SLC, etc.

Quit having a small market attitude about this franchise.
Where do you get your info? I used Arbitron's market data for 2008 and came up with Sacramento at #27.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#30
Sacramento is the 16th largest media market in the nation, making it larger than half the other markets out there including places like Indianapolis, Denver, etc..

Sacramento is NOT a BIG city market, i.e. NY, LA, Chicago, etc. But it's NOT a small market team either, i.e. OKC, SLC, etc.

Quit having a small market attitude about this franchise.

Perception is reality in cases such as these. You could be the largest city in the world, but if all the free agents think of you as small market, then your free agent pull is small market, regardless of reality.

The X factor is the Maloofs, who despite all the spittle flying hate they inspire amongst Sacramento's wannabe small town contingent, could bail out the home team with their high profile and glamorous alternative life.