Better franchise cornerstone: Fox, or Doncic? (Split from Doncic - performance thread)
- Thread starter rainmaker
- Start date
Oy, this is a tougher question than I'd like it to be. I am a big fan of Fox and think he will be the top point guard in the league in less than 3 years. He does have game changing defensive ability. Luka on the other hand is an alpha scorer you can fit other pieces around. To answer the OPs original question, I'd say the GM's would pick Luka at around 3-1
I mean... as far as the draft is concerned you just need to throw fit out the window and go for talent. I still believe the Fox pick was the right pick for this team in 2017. What happened in last year's draft doesn't change that. According to Vlade they picked Bagley because they thought he was the best talent available. All the stuff about passing on Doncic to allow Fox to develop is fan speculation. The distressing part of it is that on the surface it seems they made the same mistake some of the fans here did in that they watched a couple games where Bagley impressed in college and then watched a couple games and were less impressed by Doncic's performance in the Euroleague Finals (he still got the Final Four MVP but those were mediocre games for him). I would love to have been in that room on draft day to hear what the conversation was. I want to believe the people who make these decisions are basing them on more than just a hunch and the eye test.
As for the topic at hand... If, theoretically, I have to start a team with only one of Fox or Doncic I can see an argument for either one. Doncic is more effective as a scorer right now because his go-to move is a step-back three and De'Aaron's is a pull up midrange jumper. Then you've got that whole global branding angle Vivek was hot for when he first took over the team. Even in the midst of a slump Fox is still shooting a better percentage from deep on the season though. Doncic's percentage is trending down as his volume increases (just as it did for him last season -- we'll see where it eventually normalizes). And as fun to watch as Luka is with his herky jerky dribble drives and crazy finishes, watching De'Aaron go to work defensively then turn on the turbo jets and sprint past defenders like their feet are in cement is just as much fun for me. Maybe one of those skillsets is more likely to produce a championship but at this point in my life, getting to watch fun basketball all season means just as much to me. It's not like they're mailing me a ring or anything when they win. And both guys have just scratched the surface of the players that they'll eventually grow into.
The big point in all of this for me is always going to be that we didn't have to choose. We should have had both. But that's a different topic.
As for the topic at hand... If, theoretically, I have to start a team with only one of Fox or Doncic I can see an argument for either one. Doncic is more effective as a scorer right now because his go-to move is a step-back three and De'Aaron's is a pull up midrange jumper. Then you've got that whole global branding angle Vivek was hot for when he first took over the team. Even in the midst of a slump Fox is still shooting a better percentage from deep on the season though. Doncic's percentage is trending down as his volume increases (just as it did for him last season -- we'll see where it eventually normalizes). And as fun to watch as Luka is with his herky jerky dribble drives and crazy finishes, watching De'Aaron go to work defensively then turn on the turbo jets and sprint past defenders like their feet are in cement is just as much fun for me. Maybe one of those skillsets is more likely to produce a championship but at this point in my life, getting to watch fun basketball all season means just as much to me. It's not like they're mailing me a ring or anything when they win. And both guys have just scratched the surface of the players that they'll eventually grow into.
The big point in all of this for me is always going to be that we didn't have to choose. We should have had both. But that's a different topic.
Bro it’s harder to get shooters (for Fox) than it is to get defenders. And once again Luka isn’t a lot cause on defense where this comes from is beyond me. Also it’s easier to build around a 6’9 player who can play 1-4 vs a pg who can’t shoot.
Luka has shown time and again he can play defense in clutch situations I expect him to be like Kyrie on that end. Kyrie plays no defense but come playoff times he’s not a negative.
Luka has shown time and again he can play defense in clutch situations I expect him to be like Kyrie on that end. Kyrie plays no defense but come playoff times he’s not a negative.
The Mavs need shooters who are elite defenders at 1, 3, and 5. Are those guys easy to find, too? They come pretty cheap, right? They must also be comfortable with having zero playmaking opportunity. Luka’s defense is hot garbage, and will always be thus. He might gamble and cut off a passing lane for an occasional steal, but that’s not necessarily good defense. Bad, slow defenders who gamble a lot give up a lot of buckets.
You need good defense at the 5 anyway and you need shooting and defense at wing positions anyway. Those things doesnt change because of one player. What Luka precisely "needs" is a good wing defender next to him to take the tougher opposing matchup. Thats it. What Luka allows you to do is being more creative with your roster construction since your point guard doesnt neccesary have to be your second ball handling creator. He also plays the position that is hardest to find and is the most expensive (wing) and he plays the role that is hardest to find and is the most expensive (ball handling creator). That saves you money and its important in a salary cap sport.
There's a lot of people on this forum who are bigger fans of themselves, and their own opinions, than they are of the Kings. Thats what I see... Clearly..
Ive been a Kings fans for not even 2 years but I feel I'm vastly more loyal than some of these "grass is greener on the other side" victims.
Go root for the Mavericks ---- what are you still doing here? lol
Ive been a Kings fans for not even 2 years but I feel I'm vastly more loyal than some of these "grass is greener on the other side" victims.
Go root for the Mavericks ---- what are you still doing here? lol
More scintillating questions to ask youself on a monday morning;
Is Fox a better actor than Humphrey Bogart?
Does he sing better than Whitney Houston?
Do Fox and Doncic like green eggs and ham?
Who do you think is more photogenic - Fox, Luka or Rita Hayworth?
Who would you rather have in a war bunker with you; Fox, Doncic or Santa Claus?
If you could take one players youtube highlights with you onto a deserted island, Fox, Doncic or Mitch Richmond?
Who do you think has more offensive breath; Fox or Doncic or Splinter from TMNT?
Who do you think completes crossword puzzles faster, Fox or Doncic or Oscar the Grouch?
If you had to bet a paycheck on Luka or Fox in a 1v1 game of Monopoly -- who u taking and why?
If Fox and Luka played 1v1 with both hands tied behind their backs, dribbling only with their faces - who wins, and why?
Who do you think would make a better b-list action movie star - Fox or Doncic?
Who do you think has the best cinematic eye in the history of film; De'Aaron Fox, Luka Doncic, Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick?
Re order this list by talent levels; Luka, De'Aaron and Marlon Brando.
who do you think would make a better local news weather forecaster - Fox, Luka or Betty White?
Better rivals; Tom and Jerry, Wil E Coyote and Road Runner, or Luka and Fox?
If Fox and Doncic were charter members of the Wu-Tang clan, what do you think their rap aliases would be?
If you had to pick one to perform open heart surgery on you; would you go with Fox, Doncic or Guy Fieri?
If Fox and Doncic were sith lords in the star wars universe what color do you think their lightsabers would be?
If you Fox and Doncic are stuck in a Treasure of Sierra Madre type situation? How do you play it to walk away with the gold? or do you just split it evenly?
Edgar Allen Poe, Stephen King, Luka or Fox?
If Fox and Luka starred in the movie Primer -- who would play Abe and who would play Aaron?
Is Fox a better actor than Humphrey Bogart?
Does he sing better than Whitney Houston?
Do Fox and Doncic like green eggs and ham?
Who do you think is more photogenic - Fox, Luka or Rita Hayworth?
Who would you rather have in a war bunker with you; Fox, Doncic or Santa Claus?
If you could take one players youtube highlights with you onto a deserted island, Fox, Doncic or Mitch Richmond?
Who do you think has more offensive breath; Fox or Doncic or Splinter from TMNT?
Who do you think completes crossword puzzles faster, Fox or Doncic or Oscar the Grouch?
If you had to bet a paycheck on Luka or Fox in a 1v1 game of Monopoly -- who u taking and why?
If Fox and Luka played 1v1 with both hands tied behind their backs, dribbling only with their faces - who wins, and why?
Who do you think would make a better b-list action movie star - Fox or Doncic?
Who do you think has the best cinematic eye in the history of film; De'Aaron Fox, Luka Doncic, Orson Welles, Alfred Hitchcock or Stanley Kubrick?
Re order this list by talent levels; Luka, De'Aaron and Marlon Brando.
who do you think would make a better local news weather forecaster - Fox, Luka or Betty White?
Better rivals; Tom and Jerry, Wil E Coyote and Road Runner, or Luka and Fox?
If Fox and Doncic were charter members of the Wu-Tang clan, what do you think their rap aliases would be?
If you had to pick one to perform open heart surgery on you; would you go with Fox, Doncic or Guy Fieri?
If Fox and Doncic were sith lords in the star wars universe what color do you think their lightsabers would be?
If you Fox and Doncic are stuck in a Treasure of Sierra Madre type situation? How do you play it to walk away with the gold? or do you just split it evenly?
Edgar Allen Poe, Stephen King, Luka or Fox?
If Fox and Luka starred in the movie Primer -- who would play Abe and who would play Aaron?
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[Modding]
:: sighs ::
Ladies and gentlemen, we've been over this: you don't get to tell other posters the "correct" way to be Kings fans, or to tell them to leave if you don't think they're being fans properly. The moderators here either allow too much, or don't allow enough, depending on whom you ask, but we're definitely not allowing that.
:: sighs ::
Ladies and gentlemen, we've been over this: you don't get to tell other posters the "correct" way to be Kings fans, or to tell them to leave if you don't think they're being fans properly. The moderators here either allow too much, or don't allow enough, depending on whom you ask, but we're definitely not allowing that.
Haha you make it sound like Luka is Kyle Korver. He won’t be a negative on defense in a few years crazy you can make certain guarantees like that when there’s a better chance he becomes a good defender over fox being a good shooter.
NCAA > Euroleague might be funnier next is a 19 year old has hit the cieling
NCAA > Euroleague might be funnier next is a 19 year old has hit the cieling
Alright well then i'll just point out that people here like Luka in part because he's
For the record, I dont care to convince anyone of anything, i'm no salesman. I don't have some high-horse i preside from about the proper ettiqute of fandom.......
I only thought I was pointing out the obvious. I beg for your forgiveness, do you forgive me?
The truth is many of those posters have converted to Mavs fans and try to keep the appearance they root for the kings... just masquerading around here trying DESPERATELY to have the last laugh... protect them i guess to keep your forum as active as possible. so be it.
For the record, I dont care to convince anyone of anything, i'm no salesman. I don't have some high-horse i preside from about the proper ettiqute of fandom.......
I only thought I was pointing out the obvious. I beg for your forgiveness, do you forgive me?
The truth is many of those posters have converted to Mavs fans and try to keep the appearance they root for the kings... just masquerading around here trying DESPERATELY to have the last laugh... protect them i guess to keep your forum as active as possible. so be it.
Where are all the international posters posting about this years crop of international players tho in the draftees thread? I can't he;p but think we just have a bunch of hype-beast luka doncic fans here.
for the record I was probably aware of Doncic before most everyone here. I knew about him when he was around 12 years old and first signed the deal..and about the youth tournament the preceded those events.
for the record I was probably aware of Doncic before most everyone here. I knew about him when he was around 12 years old and first signed the deal..and about the youth tournament the preceded those events.
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Hahah thats such a stupid take. Being a fan doesnt have to affect your ability to evaluate basketball and different players objectively.
The truth is that unlike you, a lot of people are able to root for a team and still keep their educated opinions as objective as possible.
You criticizing peoples motives and the level of their "fandom" is just immature. Altough doesnt surprise me that its coming from you specifically. After all you are the guy that once got so mad to a in a discussion to a poster that argued with statistic that you threw a temper tantrum and used "I would beat your mathematician ass in 1-1 game" as an argument.
The truth is that unlike you, a lot of people are able to root for a team and still keep their educated opinions as objective as possible.
You criticizing peoples motives and the level of their "fandom" is just immature. Altough doesnt surprise me that its coming from you specifically. After all you are the guy that once got so mad to a in a discussion to a poster that argued with statistic that you threw a temper tantrum and used "I would beat your mathematician ass in 1-1 game" as an argument.
. The entire 2019 draft is pretty weak imo. If it weren't for Zion, it would contend for one of the worst drafts.You realize you're actually supporting our point? We like him for being the player he actually is, not for other reasons. Not because he's white (I have no words for the kind of racist "great white hype" reference, like we support a player for his skin, that's a miserable accuse) or because he's from Europe.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Anyway, this looks really bad. For you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Anyway, this looks really bad. For you.
Alright well then i'll just point out that people here like Luka in part because he's
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This just keeps getting dumber and dumber.
Mavs have nothing to lose (in their minds at least) letting Luka do everything and getting tons of attention for himself and for the team. Is this the best for the future of the team? I have no idea. At this point it looks like Luka and everyone else. Will anyone on the roster besides Luka be on the team when he signs his second contract??? Smart money says one or two players tops. And they sold their draft pick in 2019. It will be interesting to see what kind of club they can build around him, considering the way the talent conglomerates these days. College friendships, playing on Team USA together, etc. It's going to be interesting, no matter how talented he is.
Fox on the other hand has been given the keys but is still kept on a leash a bit, and he has a young core around him with the expectation that most of these guys are in this for the long haul. There's a lot of moving parts and folks are still learning who plays best together and solidifying their role. Nobody has anything on lock though it's safe to assume Fox is the starting PG of this team through 2025 if he remains healthy. His teammates seem to like him and though he occasionally tries to do too much I don't think he has a rep of being selfish. Plus he plays great D. He's in Sacramento so he's got a lot of disadvantages when it comes to immediate star power, and you see that with the refs. But his time will come.
Mavs have nothing to lose (in their minds at least) letting Luka do everything and getting tons of attention for himself and for the team. Is this the best for the future of the team? I have no idea. At this point it looks like Luka and everyone else. Will anyone on the roster besides Luka be on the team when he signs his second contract??? Smart money says one or two players tops. And they sold their draft pick in 2019. It will be interesting to see what kind of club they can build around him, considering the way the talent conglomerates these days. College friendships, playing on Team USA together, etc. It's going to be interesting, no matter how talented he is.
Fox on the other hand has been given the keys but is still kept on a leash a bit, and he has a young core around him with the expectation that most of these guys are in this for the long haul. There's a lot of moving parts and folks are still learning who plays best together and solidifying their role. Nobody has anything on lock though it's safe to assume Fox is the starting PG of this team through 2025 if he remains healthy. His teammates seem to like him and though he occasionally tries to do too much I don't think he has a rep of being selfish. Plus he plays great D. He's in Sacramento so he's got a lot of disadvantages when it comes to immediate star power, and you see that with the refs. But his time will come.
Alright well then i'll just point out that people here like Luka in part because he's
For the record, I dont care to convince anyone of anything, i'm no salesman. I don't have some high-horse i preside from about the proper ettiqute of fandom.......
I only thought I was pointing out the obvious. I beg for your forgiveness, do you forgive me?
The truth is many of those posters have converted to Mavs fans and try to keep the appearance they root for the kings... just masquerading around here trying DESPERATELY to have the last laugh... protect them i guess to keep your forum as active as possible. so be it.
For the record, I dont care to convince anyone of anything, i'm no salesman. I don't have some high-horse i preside from about the proper ettiqute of fandom.......
I only thought I was pointing out the obvious. I beg for your forgiveness, do you forgive me?
The truth is many of those posters have converted to Mavs fans and try to keep the appearance they root for the kings... just masquerading around here trying DESPERATELY to have the last laugh... protect them i guess to keep your forum as active as possible. so be it.
Dude, you have to be the biggest humblebrag I've ever come across on this forum. You literally say you've known every prospect before everyone else, about every single prospect. I swear I get deja vu every single time you post that, as if it proves you're more knowledgeable or objective. Firstly, nobody believes it, regardless of how many times you post it (because it's quite obviously not true). Secondly, grow up.