Artest trade stuff HERE!! (merged)

[Kings113]

Maybe Petrie wants to keep it quiet.

 

[Warhawk]

Another thing Artest has never been bad for team chemistry, he is nothing but a team player that gives it his all. Nobody should ever describe his game as selfish, he is nothing but a solid teammate. The players, coaches, and fans can count on Artest to play hard and play team ball every game, which is a lot more than I can say about Peja.

If that's the case, then why wasn't he thinking about the team when he went in the stands and assaulted an innocent bystander?

 

[piksi]

Yup blame it on Bibby, the most consistent player the Kings have ever had on their team.

Ever ???

 

[DeAtHrOw]

No, again, being anti-Artest does not mean "keep Peja after the trade deadline". It just means no Peja for Artest.

There's a BIG difference. I don't want a TO who assaults fans and isn't dedicated to basketball on this team, no matter how talented he is.

Thank you. These days it seems like being anti-Artest = Peja homer.
I still believe we should trade Peja because he WILL walk at the end of the season and we will get shafted.

 

[DirkAB]

Ever ???

It was an exaggeration, I do that quite often. This is more accurate, IMO Bibby has been the most consistent player on the Kings since Adelman started coaching.

 

[vj9999]

Who do you want? The nice guy who plays soft all the time or the guy with attitude that plays hard all the time? I'll take the guy who plays hard.

BTW one could very easily make an argument that Peja is a more selfish team player because of far less effort and a similar trade request. How can anybody call Artest selfish for a trade request and not Peja? Talk about a double standard!

Another thing Artest has never been bad for team chemistry, he is nothing but a team player that gives it his all. Nobody should ever describe his game as selfish, he is nothing but a solid teammate. The players, coaches, and fans can count on Artest to play hard and play team ball every game, which is a lot more than I can say about Peja.

And it is clear to see that most vocal proponents of this trade are Peja haters. I'm sorry, but calling out for trade for personal betterment reasons, just after you sat out a season because of a suspension is not a TEAM player in my opinion.

Peja is far from the cause or solution for our problems, but just like Webber last year, he is easiest one to blame (especially since he has been here the longest without anyting to show for).

I would appreciate your comment more if it was made directly out of appreciation for Artest and not directly out of spite for Peja.

And with that said I do agree that Peja should be either traded right now or do a sign and trade, because it would be the best in our interest to start looking at differnet options, but in my opinion (and that's all it is) Artest is not that next best option.

Now if VF21's multi player trade could be pulled off to get KG over there, than we would be talking about a good trade for us

 

[Team Dime]

I believe it's your "buddy" Mike who said he wanted to be a leader. Great job he's done so far

Hey, I'm all for trading my buddy Mike too if it makes the Kings a better team. I'll admit that he's not living up to expectations so far this year but at the least he still put forths more effort and actually seems to care about losing as opposed to the passive and aloof Peja. Bibby's hit more clutch shots last year alone than Peja will ever hit in his career. Bibby might have trouble creating his own shot at times (Peja is even worse) but we all know Bibby will never be afraid to take the big shot unlike Peja who'd make David Copperfield proud with is 4th quarter disappearing acts.

 

[BMiller52]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh after hearing the Reggie quotes-a former teammate of Artest-I'm not so sure I want him here. If we trade for Artest that means we want to win the chip within the next 2 years I'm guessing. Which really isn't happening because our defense needs to get a lot better. We'd need a Rasheed wallace type of player, and I really doubt we're getting Rasheed Wallace... let alone Rasheed AND Ron. If Reggie's comments are true though and Artest does have a negative trade value then, Geoff should throw out an offer of Garcia+Martin+a pick+kenny for ron. Reggie said they might want young guys anyways... Then we'd have Peja+Reef to deal for a defensive big man... of course none of this is going to happen so I should stop speculating RIGHT NOW.

 

[nbrans]

^I'm for trading Peja and Artest and I'm a Peja-defender, and there are quite a few people Peja disappoints who are against the trade. I don't think you can really lump the people who are for or against this trade into pro-Peja or anti-Peja categories.

 

[piksi]

It was an exaggeration, I do that quite often. This is more accurate, IMO Bibby has been the most consistent player on the Kings since Adelman started coaching.

You are right about "IMO" thing.

Would love to get an explanation how Bibby is going to get past Webber on that list. Well, there would be even more players on the list after Webber and before Mike but let's just focus on one at the time .

 

[Team Dime]

No, again, being anti-Artest does not mean "keep Peja after the trade deadline". It just means no Peja for Artest.

There's a BIG difference. I don't want a TO who assaults fans and isn't dedicated to basketball on this team, no matter how talented he is.

I highly doubt Artest will ever run into the stands again. He was suspended 73 games for it, imagine what the penalty would be for a second offense (probably a lifetime ban). As strange as Artest is, he loves basketball and I don't think there's anyway he'd take that risk. We can't act like it's a common occurence for him to assault fans. Even Shaq said that he would've done the same thing if he had gotten hit by a foreign object from the stands.


Also, don't underestimate how good Adelman is at handling these problematic players. Look at Bonzi, both Portland and Memphis had enough of him before he came to Sactown. I think the Kings have the perfect offense for Artest. There'd be plenty of freedom and flexibility unlike under the micromanaging Carlisle. Plus, Artest would have plenty of chances to get more shots and take over as a #1 since no current King has cemented that status.

 

[DeAtHrOw]

Hey, I'm all for trading my buddy Mike too if it makes the Kings a better team. I'll admit that he's not living up to expectations so far this year but at the least he still put forths more effort and actually seems to care about losing as opposed to the passive and aloof Peja. Bibby's hit more clutch shots last year alone than Peja will ever hit in his career. Bibby might have trouble creating his own shot at times (Peja is even worse) but we all know Bibby will never be afraid to take the big shot unlike Peja who'd make David Copperfield proud with is 4th quarter disappearing acts.

Come on man, if he cared he would not let his man get by him every single time. Defense can be learned and same goes for Peja. If there ever was a defensive liability for the Kings it's Mikey.

 

[DirkAB]

And it is clear to see that most vocal proponents of this trade are Peja haters. I'm sorry, but calling out for trade for personal betterment reasons, just after you sat out a season because of a suspension is not a TEAM player in my opinion.

Peja is far from the cause or solution for our problems, but just like Webber last year, he is easiest one to blame (especially since he has been here the longest without anyting to show for).

I would appreciate your comment more if it was made directly out of appreciation for Artest and not directly out of spite for Peja.

And with that said I do agree that Peja should be either traded right now or do a sign and trade, because it would be the best in our interest to start looking at differnet options, but in my opinion (and that's all it is) Artest is not that next best option.

Now if VF21's multi player trade could be pulled off to get KG over there, than we would be talking about a good trade for us

Where do you get that I'm a Peja hater? That is far from true, I'm a hater of the Kings group dynamic. I like Peja and if he got traded to the Pacers I would love to watch him every chance I could. As a matter of a fact I think him getting traded to the Pacers would be great for him, he would be on a contender and a team that he could be better utilized. He would get much better open looks because they have slashers and a solid big guy to suck in the defense.

My statements aren't out of hate for Peja or love for Artest, they are out of love for the Kings. IMO this could be one of the best players to solve some of the Kings problems, he is maybe the best defender in the league and can put up 20 a game. And I think you would have your head in the sand to think that Peja wasn't part of the Kings problems. The Kings need tough, physical, athletic players because they really have only one in Bonzi. Not that Artest would be the answer to all the Kings problems but he would be the second big step in the right direction, Bonzi being the first.

 

[Warhawk]

I highly doubt Artest will ever run into the stands again. He was suspended 73 games for it, imagine what the penalty would be for a second offense (probably a lifetime ban). As strange as Artest is, he loves basketball and I don't think there's anyway he'd take that risk. We can't act like it's a common occurence for him to assault fans. Even Shaq said that he would've done the same thing if he had gotten hit by a foreign object from the stands.


Also, don't underestimate how good Adelman is at handling these problematic players. Look at Bonzi, both Portland and Memphis had enough of him before he came to Sactown. I think the Kings have the perfect offense for Artest. There'd be plenty of freedom and flexibility unlike under the micromanaging Carlisle. Plus, Artest would have plenty of chances to get more shots and take over as a #1 since no current King has cemented that status.

He was suspended 73 games and the team stood by him and he turns around and stabs them in the back. He is more interested in himself and his misspelled "label" than basketball.

You cannot say Shaq or anyone else would have done the same thing. Shaq took a swing at Miller once, but that is a HUGE leap to say he would go into the stands to beat up a fan who did absolutely nothing to him. I don't see it - he's a sworn peace officer, after all.

Adleman couldn't get Massenburg on the same page, how is he going to deal with the TO of basketball?

I love Artest's talent, but the guy is a flippin fruitcake upstairs.

 

[piksi]

Where do you get that I'm a Peja hater? That is far from true, I'm a hater of the Kings group dynamic. I like Peja and if he got traded to the Pacers I would love to watch him every chance I could.

 

[vj9999]

Where do you get that I'm a Peja hater? That is far from true, I'm a hater of the Kings group dynamic. I like Peja and if he got traded to the Pacers I would love to watch him every chance I could. As a matter of a fact I think him getting traded to the Pacers would be great for him, he would be on a contender and a team that he could be better utilized. He would get much better open looks because they have slashers and a solid big guy to suck in the defense.

My statements aren't out of hate for Peja or love for Artest, they are out of love for the Kings. IMO this could be one of the best players to solve some of the Kings problems, he is maybe the best defender in the league and can put up 20 a game. And I think you would have your head in the sand to think that Peja wasn't part of the Kings problems. The Kings need tough, physical, athletic players because they really have only one in Bonzi. Not that Artest would be the answer to all the Kings problems but he would be the second big step in the right direction, Bonzi being the first.

Sorry if I misjudged you. I got the impression from your comment, but I could have easily misinterpreted it.

Bottom line is that it comes to personal opinions on this trade and I respect yours and hope you respect mine.. After all we both want the best for our team We just want it differently

 

[DirkAB]

I hope that you are kidding.

 

[Kings113]

Newsday - Pacers president Donnie Walsh said he expects to hear from the Knicks when the bidding for Indiana star Ron Artest heats up, but they are by no means the preferred bidder even though Artest said he would like to play for the Knicks in an "ideal world."

"Ron changed that statement," Walsh said yesterday in a telephone interview. "He said he'd go anywhere, and I wouldn't feel I had to do that [deal with the Knicks] anyway. I'm going to take the best offer."

As of 5:30 p.m. yesterday, Walsh said he had heard nothing yet from Knicks president Isiah Thomas, but he certainly expects to hear soon from the man who coached Artest for two seasons with the Pacers. "We just started the process, but I'm waiting to hear what they have to say," Walsh said of the Knicks.

Walsh declined to discuss specifics, but when asked if he likely would demand some or all of the Knicks' three first-round rookies as part of any deal, Walsh said, "I'm not in the market for veterans. It has to make sense either for our future or financial sense or both."

Reading between the lines, that means the only way the Pacers would take one of the Knicks' veteran contracts would be if Austin Croshere, who has two years worth $18.5 million left on his contract, were part of the deal. It's virtually certain that Walsh would want rookie forward Channing Frye, the eighth overall pick of the 2005 draft, as part of a deal. He also might expect to pick from among Knicks rookies David Lee and Nate Robinson and second-year player Trevor Ariza.

After supporting Artest through a series of problems, Walsh called his sudden trade request "the last straw" and vowed to accommodate his wish. Walsh said he has no timetable but expects to move quickly.

"I'm in the process of seeing what the market is," Walsh said, "but if I see a deal that will help us, I'll do it."

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/38290/20051213/walsh_on_artest_he_said_hed_go_anywhere/

This still doesn't rule out Peja.

I just can't see the Knicks trading away Frye (14-18 FGs, 30 pts, 7 boards, 2 blk last night), maybe Ariza/Lee though. Lee's a real good big, and one that they need (rebounder, hustler, defender, under the basket). Nate Robinson as expected became an instant fan favorite and has been great for them, recently getting the starting spot.

 

[Team Dime]

He was suspended 73 games and the team stood by him and he turns around and stabs them in the back. He is more interested in himself and his misspelled "label" than basketball.

You cannot say Shaq or anyone else would have done the same thing. Shaq took a swing at Miller once, but that is a HUGE leap to say he would go into the stands to beat up a fan who did absolutely nothing to him. I don't see it - he's a sworn peace officer, after all.

Adleman couldn't get Massenburg on the same page, how is he going to deal with the TO of basketball?

I love Artest's talent, but the guy is a flippin fruitcake upstairs.

Read what I said. Shaq SAID HIMSELF that he would've done the same thing. I remember him saying that after the brawl happened. You can believe me or not, but I'm not making some huge leap assuming that Shaq would've done it. I'm just going by what I remember him saying.

Who cares about Massenburg? I think he just wanted to play more anyways. But Adelman has gotten through to Bonzi. It looks like Artest's primary problems are his role in the offense. Due the Kings style of play, something tells me that wouldn't be a problem here.

 

[piksi]

It looks like Artest's primary problems are his role in the offense.

Actually, he is a pretty solid offensive player.

His primary problem is

 

[Warhawk]

Read what I said. Shaq SAID HIMSELF that he would've done the same thing. I remember him saying that after the brawl happened. You can believe me or not, but I'm not making some huge leap assuming that Shaq would've done it. I'm just going by what I remember him saying.

Who cares about Massenburg? I think he just wanted to play more anyways. But Adelman has gotten through to Bonzi. It looks like Artest's primary problems are his role in the offense. Due the Kings style of play, something tells me that wouldn't be a problem here.

I think some guys said they would do the same thing because they had a little solidarity with a fellow basketball player, not because they would actually go up and beat the tar out of an innocent fan. I look at Shaq's actions, and by all accounts he is good with the fans - he's always good for a quote, but he's never (IIRC) done anything to put the fans down (or physically hurt them).

Massenburg was a bit of a head case, too, and we had to drop him. Adleman is a "player's coach", but that doesn't mean you can take any idiot player that doesn't put his team as the top priority and put him under Rick and they'll be singing "We Are the World" after every practice. Yes Bonzi has been great, but it's only been 20 games. Massenburg was not once his minutes diminished. RA isn't a miracle worker, you know, and Artest has a history of not being a great lockerroom guy. This latest event was, as mentioned previously, the straw that broke the camel's back. That's not a one-time thing.

 

[DocHolliday]

No, again, being anti-Artest does not mean "keep Peja after the trade deadline". It just means no Peja for Artest.

There's a BIG difference. I don't want a TO who assaults fans and isn't dedicated to basketball on this team, no matter how talented he is.

That's right twist the facts. Should I call you Michael Moore?? He was provoked multiple times. Do I think what he did was right, no. But, it has been reported he has been absolutely no problem with the coaches or teammates this season thus far. He's been more social, and has built relationships on and off the court with his teammates. He hasn't gotten in one referee's face. He just doesn't like Carlisle's system, and the way he coaches. He wants to continue to be tough but be allowed to score more. If you can't get along with Rick's layed back style, you can't along with anyone. Also, the Princeton offesnse will definitely give him the opportunity for scoring. As for someone who says we don't need another person to score. If you trade Peja you do.

 

[DirkAB]

You are right about "IMO" thing.

Would love to get an explanation how Bibby is going to get past Webber on that list. Well, there would be even more players on the list after Webber and before Mike but let's just focus on one at the time .

Easy because I'm including injuries into that equation. Webber was very consistent when he was on the floor, but he was always injured. Bibby hasn't had near as many injury problems, and was always more reliable in big games. By no means am I saying that he is better than Webber, as a matter of a fact he isn't near as good now that Webber is gone. Webber made everybody on the team better and is very missed.

 

[piksi]

Easy because I'm including injuries into that equation. Webber was very consistent when he was on the floor, but he was always injured. Bibby hasn't had near as many injury problems, and was always more reliable in big games. By no means am I saying that he is better than Webber, as a matter of a fact he isn't near as good now that Webber is gone. Webber made everybody on the team better and is very missed.

Webber was not always injured. Unfortuntely he had a big one at the worst possible time for the Kings.

 

[DirkAB]

Webber was not always injured. Unfortuntely he had a big one at the worst possible time for the Kings.

He missed a lot of games for a number of seasons:

00-01 missed 12 games
01-02 missed 28 games
02-03 missed 15 games
03-04 missed 59 games


That is a lot of games no matter how you slice it.

 

[Warhawk]

That's right twist the facts. Should I call you Michael Moore?? He was provoked multiple times. Do I think what he did was right, no. But, it has been reported he has been absolutely no problem with the coaches or teammates this season thus far. He's been more social, and has built relationships on and off the court with his teammates. He hasn't gotten in one referee's face. He just doesn't like Carlisle's system, and the way he coaches. He wants to continue to be tough but be allowed to score more. If you can't get along with Rick's layed back style, you can't along with anyone. Also, the Princeton offesnse will definitely give him the opportunity for scoring. As for someone who says we don't need another person to score. If you trade Peja you do.

And he will be provoked again. Look at one post from a Pacer's fan:

So who's gonna throw their beer at Artest when he comes in for a visit? Maybe I should start saving my quarters to hurl at him.

from naptownmenace here: http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16743

Go through and read some more there about how well loved this "ultimate team player" is.

During Isiah's last season I blamed him for Ron's behavior - thought he was too easy on him in the press, griping about his suspensions, saying that he loved his passion for the game, always saying he shouldn't be suspended for his latest tirade.

It wasn't until the "rest me so I can promote my album" deal last year that I changed my mind on that and decided that Ron's just a nutcase.

I could see the Kings doing the same to keep him happy, and it didn't work for the Pacers, did it?

and:

Donnie took Artest over Brad because he felt Ron Ron would be better in the long run for the team, and he would have been right if Ron Ron would have been right - in the noggin.

and:

Sounds like everyone is really fed up with Ron..it really is the last straw.

and:

I like that patience was given to Artest by the team. He is obviously not willing to change so it's time to move on. Adios Ron.

and:

Ron's jersey should be retired, and hanging from Conseco's rafters TOMORROW!

With him still wearing it of course.

And this is from just ONE THREAD there.

You think people won't try the same trick later (throwing stuff at him) now that you know he can be goaded into insanity?

Look at VF21's post for a dose of reality:

Before you actually anoint him St. Ron, you might want to spend some time at www.PacersDigest.com Read the thoughts of the people who have watched him, have defended him time and time again, etc. The fans who have paid hard-earned money for season tickets in Indiana and then watched as their season hopes were flushed because Artest went nuts and attacked a fan.

You don't even know at this point if he'll even show up for the game. He might have another rap album to record or he might just decide to take a few days off for some phantom injury the doctors can find no trace of...

If you're going to talk about Artest, you need to at least be willing to face the reality of the situation.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8861&page=28

Everyone is enamored with the talent but not looking at the player.

 

[DocHolliday]

I didn't even read what the pacers fan had to say. I don't care what they have to say. They are pissed, because they are about to lose one of the top 2 players on that team. It's bitterness.

Artest is crazy not stupid. He knows if he were to ever do anything like that again, he's going to be thrown out of the NBA. He's not about to kill the cash flow that let's him floss like he wants.

 

[Kings113]

Indeed, Doc.

 

[Warhawk]

I didn't even read what the pacers fan had to say. I don't care what they have to say. They are pissed, because they are about to lose one of the top 2 players on that team. It's bitterness.

Artest is crazy not stupid. He knows if he were to ever do anything like that again, he's going to be thrown out of the NBA. He's not about to kill the cash flow that let's him floss like he wants.

I think Pacer fans are the most informed fans there are about Artest. Obviously, you disagree. Whatever. I, personally, would look at their opinions of him to see how some of the other "best fans in the NBA" feel about him before making a decision to support getting him in a trade.

I think he is impulsive and self-obsessed and not devoted to the game, not stupid. Either will get you in a lot of trouble, as you can see by his past actions.

 

[DocHolliday]

I think Pacer fans are the most informed fans there are about Artest. Obviously, you disagree. Whatever. I, personally, would look at their opinions of him to see how some of the other "best fans in the NBA" feel about him before making a decision to support getting him in a trade.

I think he is impulsive and self-obsessed and not devoted to the game, not stupid. Either will get you in a lot of trouble, as you can see by his past actions.

And it's a guarantee he won't repeat those actions, or he will be tossed out of the NBA.