Artest trade stuff HERE!! (merged)

VF21 · Dec 10, 2005

Rodman was nuts but he wasn't climb into the clock tower with an Uzi nuts. I honestly can't say the same thing about Artest.

It IS tantalizing. I admit that. But the worst case scenario is so frightening - like he goes berzerk into the stands again and someone (like a child) is seriously hurt - that I just would not be able to pull the trigger (so to speak) on the deal no matter how tempting.

Especially not right now. The Maloofs are trying their hardest to convince a reluctant Sacramento to get serious about building an arena. They would, in essence, be putting that on the line by bringing Artest here. The risks, as my actuarial brother would say, simply outweigh the possible (even probable) benefits.

quick dog · Dec 10, 2005

Webber was a risk in his day.

Bonzi was a risk this year.

Looks to me like young bigtime athletes often come with some emotional baggage. Young men mature. So far so good with our "problem children".

Didn't Webber also want to stay in the Northeast?

You don't fill a flush with feint heart. Drop the hammer.

VF21 · Dec 10, 2005

DirkAB said:

Let's see...things I remember. He took a TV monitor and smashed it to the floor, with pieces going every which way. I won't even mention the brawl, because that's pretty well known. Those are only two - but they're risks that involve so much more than play on the court. There is the potential for serious bodily injury to an innocent bystander. It's not about how much we'd pay him. It's about how much it would cost the Maloofs if the worst case scenario came to be. If you've ever done risk/benefit analysis, this is a textbook case that can actually be argued either way. The bottom line in a decision, however, has to be if you can actually live with the worst case scenario should it occur. In this instance, the Maloofs could lose everything, including the fanbase and any chance of getting an arena deal into place. IMHO that potential loss outweighs any possible benefit because there is a REAL chance it could, in fact, happen. This is a guy who has had previous melt-downs and, even when relatively "sane," still sounds like his brain isn't wired properly.

VF21 · Dec 10, 2005

quick dog said:

You cannot possibly compare Webber, whose problems were NON-VIOLENT, to Ron Artest. Well, you can, I suppose, but it's really not valid.

Some emotional baggage? Good lord. What would it take to convince people he's unstable? Actual maimings? A true postal episode? This is not a stable person.

One more thing? Unless you're four to the flush after the flop, your chances of filling that flush aren't that good anyway.

LPKingsFan · Dec 11, 2005

I guess the bottom line, in terms of the big picture comes down to two questions:

1. Would getting Artest give the Kings a better chance of contending?

2. Would getting Artest isolate or excite the fan base? How would it affect an arena deal? Would the competitve boost help raise support for a new arena, or would an incident like last year kill the team's chances of staying in the city.

These questions must be addressed. An entire franchise is at stake.

In the end, I say go for it. With the way this team appears to be headed, potential gains are worth potential risks.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

Pretty selective questions.

What about:

1. Would getting Artest put the future of the franchise at risk?

2. Would having Artest melt down again ruin the reputation of the team beyond repair?

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

I'm glad I don't have to make the decision and that some of you aren't making the decision.

I don't see the Maloofs letting it happen because, while they own casinos, they don't gamble in them.

DirkAB · Dec 11, 2005

VF21 said:

1. No
2. No

This guy isn't a sociopath, he's volitile but not a stark raving lunatic. Good lord what do you think he's going to do, jump into the stands and kill a kid for throwing a piece of popcorn at him?

Bricklayer · Dec 11, 2005

VF21 said:

Equally selective questions I think.

I don't think its possible to manage a basktball team like you are reading actuarial tables. Not only is it not that predictable, but being that risk averse probably is going to doom you to mediocrity.

Unless the very first thing he does upon hitting town is rip off the arm of some 8 yr old and beat him over the head with it (and actually I've known 8 yr olds that might deserve that treatment anyway) we should have an opportunity to get a feel for things before any major explosions. An imminenmtly tradeable piece if we need to at some point.

The fanbase isn't going to revolt over criminal assault of a TV monitor. But they are revolting right now at cirminal softness and mediocrity. When you consider that a contender like Miami would probably kill to get its hands on Artest to solidify that position, you have to wonder how we could be so namby-pamby not to be interested.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

DirkAB said:

Whatever...You use exaggeration while I was pretty clear in saying what I thought the potential problems were. If you don't think there's a risk, then one of us is way off and I don't think it's me. It's apparent we disagree. Cool.

At some point, you might be able to say "I told you so." I just don't see it happening. I've watched every move this franchise has made since 1985 and my honest opinion is that there's no way team owners would take a chance, especially with this latest bit of nonsense.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

Bricklayer said:

My questions were meant to go along with the first two.

You do have to consider risk/benefit. You would obviously take the risk. I obviously would not. And of course the fanbase isn't going to revolt over something like a TV monitor but they would certainly be upset if Artest went into the crowd AGAIN and attacked someone AGAIN.

My assessment is every bit as valid as yours in that neither of us actually owns the team.

We'll see what happens. I'm going to be VERY surprised if it ever comes out that the Kings seriously considered a trade for Artest any time on or after December 2005.

quick dog · Dec 11, 2005

OK. I have the solution. You have a "special agent" sit behind the Kings bench for every game. The agent would be armed with a 5-megaton stun-gun and a license to kill. You pay the stun-gun thug $200 per night, a fabulous seat behind the bench, and all the hotdogs he can eat. Eighty-two games, relatively cheap insurance.

Insurance you say? What do you mean by that?

Yes. Ron Artest insurance. The agent is authorized to blast Ron with the stun-gun the very second he steps behind the Kings' bench. Ron steps out of line, and blasto! Artest hits the floor quivering like 230 pounds of grape jello. He is immediately scraped off the floor and layed on a stretcher. He is quietly taken to the locker room. Incident avoided. End of case. Step back folks. No story here!

All of this would of course be written into Ron's contract. Official language like, "OK Ron, here's the deal. If you get out of line you have to agree to be stun-gunned into the next season." Bada bing, bada boom.

Insurance. That's all we need.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

Okay, I'd do it with that proviso. And the saddest part is Artest might actually agree to it - and enjoy the whole stun-gun experience.

DirkAB · Dec 11, 2005

VF21 said:

^^^That's not exaggerating?

I think we already have seen the worst case scenerio last season, and honest to god don't see him doing anything like that again. I think what happened in Detroit was a freak deal, and the worst case scenario, and it didn't destroy the Pacers organization.

quick dog · Dec 11, 2005

VF21 said:

I'll bet it clears the sinuses.

Bricklayer · Dec 11, 2005

VF21 said:

Some of the fanbase. Is it the Lakers crowd? Would pay good money to see Ron go postal on Jack down at Staples.

Truthfully, I think the media has gotten a lot of people worried about violence in general and whatnot rather overexcited about Artest. About the LAST thing I worry about with Artest is him running off into the stands again. Other stuff...possible. Think his decisionmaking is always supect. But the brawling with fans thing is past now and its extraordinarily hard to see him reprising that one again given the known consequences.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

You haven't been in Arco in quite a while, have you? There is a small contingency of fan that could drive ME into going postal, and I'd like to believe - albeit possibly mistakenly - that I'm not as prone to primal rage as the aforementioned Mr. Artest. There are actually people who would go out of their way to see if they could provoke him.

Arco isn't like it used to be.

VF21 · Dec 11, 2005

DirkAB said:

The Pacers organization is rock solid, with a nice arena. I suppose you could be missing a lot by living in Nebraska, but the Kings organization is really ungoing a lot of flux right now. The arena issue isn't going to go away AND the fanbase is eroding as we speak, although the win tonight might staunch the bleeding at least momentarily.

There is NO way you can compare the Indiana Pacers with the Sacramento Kings.

Warhawk · Dec 11, 2005

So then, are we contemplating going from the team with the best chemistry to the team with the best chance of a chemical explosion with some awesome-playing headcases?

Just kidding, but I may not be too far off here.

Maybe this town is ready for a little "friction", a couple players that rub some folks the right way but can be an amazing asset to a team.

I personally am intrigued by the possibility, but not sure that it would be the right move. Jury is still out for me, especially with almost 3 years left on his contract.

4cwebb · Dec 11, 2005

Wonder if Artest is taking his cues from TO these days. DWalsh didn't sound too pleased with Artest's course of action, but weren't there rumblings well before the incident last season that Artest didn't enjoy playing in Carlisle's hyper-structured offense? And if you read Scoop Jackson's article (and believed what was written), it's pretty clear Artest is no idiot. He knows what he's doing. He's been a good boy, played well with others, but he's got no desire to play basketball like a puppet (I can't say that I blame him, either), or live by the rules of "Hoosiers". So he's shown that he can still play very effectively in this league for the first 20 games, shown that he's still every bit the physical specimen on both ends of the floor that he was two years ago, and now he wants out.

Well, this Kings' fan is ready to start the Artest era. I'm unconcerned with whether he wants 20 shots per game --- he has a much more varied offensive game than any player currently on the Kings' roster. And, while he may be a bit generous in saying the every player matched against him creates a mismatch, he's right 90% of the time. He's just so much more powerful than just about any SF in the league that he has a post-up advantage on just about all of them. Try to guard him with a PF, and he runs around them. I watched him abuse Richard Jefferson as if RJeff was Francisco Garcia, then dare burly Mark Jackson to guard him at the three point line. And in his only matchup with King James this year, I think Artest got the better of it, which is saying something the way Lebron has been scoring this season.

Roll out the red carpet, Maloofs. Your opportunity to get your team back to contention is knocking.

foretaz · Dec 11, 2005

im tellin u...

find a way to make the jackson for peja trade work...

that doesnt include granger or saras...u can have anyone of the following with jack....anthony johnson, fred jones, david harrison...pollard and cro would be more complicated but probably could be worked out...

hell wed probably take peja and corliss for jack and pollard...

or hart and peja for jackson and aj...

foretaz · Dec 11, 2005

4cwebb said:

Wonder if Artest is taking his cues from TO these days. DWalsh didn't sound too pleased with Artest's course of action, but weren't there rumblings well before the incident last season that Artest didn't enjoy playing in Carlisle's hyper-structured offense? And if you read Scoop Jackson's article (and believed what was written), it's pretty clear Artest is no idiot. He knows what he's doing. He's been a good boy, played well with others, but he's got no desire to play basketball like a puppet (I can't say that I blame him, either), or live by the rules of "Hoosiers". So he's shown that he can still play very effectively in this league for the first 20 games, shown that he's still every bit the physical specimen on both ends of the floor that he was two years ago, and now he wants out.

Well, this Kings' fan is ready to start the Artest era. I'm unconcerned with whether he wants 20 shots per game --- he has a much more varied offensive game than any player currently on the Kings' roster. And, while he may be a bit generous in saying the every player matched against him creates a mismatch, he's right 90% of the time. He's just so much more powerful than just about any SF in the league that he has a post-up advantage on just about all of them. Try to guard him with a PF, and he runs around them. I watched him abuse Richard Jefferson as if RJeff was Francisco Garcia, then dare burly Mark Jackson to guard him at the three point line. And in his only matchup with King James this year, I think Artest got the better of it, which is saying something the way Lebron has been scoring this season.

Roll out the red carpet, Maloofs. Your opportunity to get your team back to contention is knocking.

this is a very, very informed post...

Kings113 · Dec 11, 2005

Artest coming to Sac would be incredible. I'd trade for him in a flash...

BMiller52 · Dec 11, 2005

foretaz said:

Hey foretaz if artest came to sac would you still like for him and root for him? You sound like a pretty smart guy when it comes to basketball and it sounds like you know artest pretty well. Also, who would you want him to be traded to the most if he has to be traded?

VF21: I understand your views, and part of me agrees with you. It's a big risk. But if it worked, and artest isn't as crazy as we're led to believe, it could have a BIG payoff too. A move like that IF it doesn't backfire would probably actually HELP the maloofs get a new arena because it'd show that they care about the team in the W colum. If we did and we are close to contender status again, I'm sure people would try a lot more to keep the kings in northern california. Still a tough decision though I guess. You seem to hate Ron pretty badly, so if he came to the kings would you still love them like you do? Or would you consider it as bad as us getting someone like Ruben Patterson(if we brought that guy on board I'm not sure what I would do, I like the blazers franchise but hate him with a passion).

Venom · Dec 11, 2005

The only reason Walsh is pissed is because now everyone knows he's trying to move Artest. Good luck getting market value when Artest made a trade demand, half-hearted though it may be. Now he's going to have to settle for moving Artest for someone like Peja, straight up. That means no dumping of Croshere's salary, no PG swap, and no garnering extra picks.

This isn't a TO trade demand. Ron simply stated that he doesn't like the system and would prefer to move on. He didn't flame Carlisle, the organization, or the city. In fact, he went out of his way to say that he liked Carlisle as a person and a coach, he just doesn't like the system. If you don't like your job, you find another one right? Not a big deal to me.

I'm also not concerned with his preference for New York. He's from there, is real tight with Isaih, and I'm sure he'd like to play for Larry Brown. But, all these guys LOVE the Maloofs. And, strangely enough, they usually come around to loving the city too. As long as you play hard there's none of the crap that comes with playing in one of the big media markets.

If the worst does happen, his contract only has two years left. It's not a Sampson-like albatross around our necks. I doubt he would be tradeable if another incident occured here though, so we'd have to eat the contract. But look, this team, as constructed, is going nowhere. It's a roll of the dice, but it's a measured risk.

Would it hurt the arena deal? Like Brick said, four guys out there not hustling, and Bonzi, is hurting the arena deal far more than anything Artest could do. The general apathy and malaise exhibited by these guys is depressing to watch. Artest at least keeps things interesting.

Would it sound the death knell of the Princeton? Most likely, but Rick can adjust. Believe it or not, he's a REALLY good coach. I imagine they would keep Brad in the high post and get more creative with who occupies the low block, which isn't so different from what they do now. Clearly, they would eliminate all intricate screens and sets run for Peja to get open looks. Neither Ron or Bonzi need that stuff, or Bibby for that matter.

foretaz · Dec 11, 2005

BMiller52 said:

ron artest is my favorite basketball player...and im not a hip hop guy...im 40 years old and white...

he brings it every nite, every moment hes on the floor....there are very few that do that-let alone with his talent....

as far as im concerned he belongs in a category of kg and tim duncan when it comes to all around game....he can literally take over a game at both ends...his offense doesnt get talked about because of his defensive prowess, but its almost as good....hes developed a fantastic shot from anywhere on the floor and noone and i do mean noone can guard him one on one....the closest is ak47 because of his length but ron just powers right thru him....

ron is ron though....hes not crazy...well i guess it might depend on ur definition...i like vf so ive laid off all the shots shes taken at him, but shes a bit off on the depiction....ron is a great guy...the ultimate family guy...but he does have issues, make no mistake...

one of the biggest things is u cant pay attention to what ron says...first of all hes one of the very worst uve ever met at verbalizing what he means....and doesnt realize the impact or the consequences of the things he says....

but in this particular case, as other cases, its tough to ignore what hes saying....and thats what u get with ron....ron is far too open sometimes and that combined with his inability to properly verbalize gets him into some big problems....like now....

ron wont go into the stands again....rest assured....ron doesnt complain to refs...but ron is competitive....and ron gets his attention fix and self worth fix thru basketball....

and fact of the matter is, carlisle is one of the most difficult coaches to play for in the league...ron isnt the only one whos felt this way...many pistons players said the same thing....and many pacer players have said it as well....he micromanages and simply holds the reigns so tight, that it drives guys like ron, tinsley, jackson, and others crazy...he just ends up wearing on them so much...like ron said he likes rick, he just feels he cant play for him anymore....and i promise u hes not the only one that feels that way....and truth be said, carlisle is probably not the right coach for this team....this team has far too much talent and depth to fit ricks coaching style...

rick would be perfect for the kings right now....pretty good starters with a lacking bench...rick plays a structured game that limits possessions ...which is great for teams like sac and detroit where all their talent is in the starting lineup...

i will always root for ron....and unless he gets traded to the pistons, ill probably root for his team as well, though ill always eat and breath pacers...have for nearly 40 years...i would prefer he get traded to the west....for obvious reasons...but most importantly i hope he gets traded to the right situation-which there are no guarantees....its gonna take the right situation or it will go south on that team as well...and i want him to go to a team that is able to assist the pacers in the potential trade...

im still not sure about all of this, as we dont have nearly all the facts...and like i said with ron, the first take on a situation from only one side is usually gonna be very distorted...

ron got booed the other nite for missing free throws....it was as much about how the team had been playing as anything...then the peja rumor hit....and jermaine spoke out regarding retooling...then the pacers won without him and jackson had a great game and had a big writeup in the paper about jackson....

my guess is when ron took all this in and a reporter with an agenda-which is the case-asked the right questions it came out like it did...

the only real damaging things said were about not wanting to play for carlisle...he didnt say he wanted a trade...he said it might be a good thing for the team...i really think hes feelings were hurt and he was responding from that frame of reference....thing is he didnt say anything with regard to carlisle that many others on the team probably dont feel the same about...

should be interesting the next few days to see how this all plays out...and to find out the whole story...

jon e · Dec 11, 2005

if we were able to get artest, i wouldnt mind if we lost all of our games. i want a team that can kick any other teams a**. sacramento kings = raiders of basketball...

ParniValjak · Dec 11, 2005

piksi said:

My thoughts exactly.

AleksandarN · Dec 11, 2005

It seems I was not too far off in other post hey Brick

Bricklayer · Dec 11, 2005

Its just too damn interesting a scenario not to suggest things:

Peja Stojakovic $7.6mil ending
Kenny Thomas $6.1mil
Kevin Martin $0.9mil
-------------$14.6mil

Ron Artest $6.5mil
Scot Pollard $6.3mil ending
Fred Jones $2.3mil
-----------$15.1mil

We get size and energy off the bench, along with an ending contract in a player familiar with teh system and popular amongst fans, and a potential Bobby replacement

Indiana cashes Pollard in for a better player and maybe Al Harrington replacement in KT, and gets a young skinny OG from the area with true OG height (given that they are waist deep in PGs now and Jones has to play OG for them) to try to make them forget Reggie (obviously not with QUITE the same shot

).

Artest trade stuff HERE!! (merged)

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