Artest to NY... Again?

[HaraWish]

I just read Amick's blog.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/009193.html

Question: Hi Sam. Great game last night (against New York). I hear there are some big changes or trades coming to the Kings? Have you heard anything? It would sure be nice to lose Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas, Mikki Moore, and Brad Miller for some new guys. It is all over the web, but things take time. Has (Kings basketball president) Geoff (Petrie) wised up? Thank you. - Ron, Woodbridge, CA

Answer: There’s a whole lot on the web that holds only a hint of truth or usually none at all, but I have heard that something may be coming soon. That’s just talk, mind you, but I would not be at all surprised if Petrie and Knicks were working on something with Ron Artest heading to New York. The key is if New York is still unwilling to give up David Lee, which seems less likely considering he’s coming off the bench now behind the Knicks’ frontline of Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry. And while Jamal Crawford may be available, I could see Petrie negotiating for Nate Robinson instead and convincing Isiah Thomas to take at least one of his big’s deals (likely Kenny Thomas). Isiah may need to do something to save his job, and maybe bringing Artest home is it. Or then again, maybe he’s already lost the sort of clout to pull off a move like this considering his own standing.

Personally I like David Lee, and IMO he may be the PF who we need - A hardworker who can rebound and block.

But I cannot imagine the detail.

'Artest <-> Crawford + Lee' works under salary. But Crawford's contract is horibble and redundant to us.

In addition, Amick mentioned moving KT, but how?

If Petrie want to swap a WORST contract (for us) to a WORSER contract (for us), NY can be a good partner. They had Crawford, Jeffries, Rose and... James.

If Petrie want (1) to move Artest and KT (2) to get Lee, the only deal that I can imagine is like this.

Artest + KT <-> Lee + two of Crawford, Jeffries, Rose, and James.

And those deals don't attract me, even though I like to get Lee.

Do you have any better suggestion?

 

[piksi]

in normal circumstances - sure but since it is Ron we are thalking about - there isn't much room for negotiations

 

[Smills91]

I just read Amick's blog.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/009193.html



Personally I like David Lee, and IMO he may be the PF who we need - A hardworker who can rebound and block.

But I cannot imagine the detail.

'Artest <-> Crawford + Lee' works under salary. But Crawford's contract is horibble and redundant to us.

In addition, Amick mentioned moving KT, but how?

If Petrie want to swap a WORST contract (for us) to a WORSER contract (for us), NY can be a good partner. They had Crawford, Jeffries, Rose and... James.

If Petrie want (1) to move Artest and KT (2) to get Lee, the only deal that I can imagine is like this.

Artest + KT <-> Lee + two of Crawford, Jeffries, Rose, and James.

And those deals don't attract me, even though I like to get Lee.

Do you have any better suggestion?

It'd be pretty easy actually:
Kings deal: Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur Rahim
Knicks deal Stephon Marbury/David Lee

I personally don't like the idea of dealing Ron-Ron AT ALL. I don't think that deal is enough to get Ron IMO. They'd have to include a lot more for me to bite, like a #1 pick and Mardy Collins.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

Probally something on the lines of this will get Artest to New York:

Kings deal: Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas, Quincy Douby
Knicks deal: Stephon Marbury, David Lee, 1st Round Pick

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Any "deal" that involves the Kings acquiring FSM is not worth it.

 

[Gary]

Whoa.. No Marbury.... Not even for Lee.. Not unless they were willing to take KT, SAR, and Artest.

If we did get Marbury I would tell the fool to go home if I were Petrie, and buy his butt out. Tell him that he will never play in a Kings uni, and tell him if he does not accept the buyout than he would be unable to sign w/ any other team for two years. I bet he might take a buyout if that were the case.

Reason? Because he wants to promote his cheap shoes, and not being able to play might hurt his business.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Whoa.. No Marbury.... Not even for Lee.. Not unless they were willing to take KT, SAR, and Artest.

If we did get Marbury I would tell the fool to go home if I were Petrie, and buy his butt out. Tell him that he will never play in a Kings uni, and tell him if he does not accept the buyout than he would be unable to sign w/ any other team for two years. I bet he might take a buyout if that were the case.

Reason? Because he wants to promote his cheap shoes, and not being able to play might hurt his business.

Thank you, I don't understand why anyone would want Marbury playing here and if he was in the trade I'd buy him out immediately.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thank you, I don't understand why anyone would want Marbury playing here and if he was in the trade I'd buy him out immediately.

Which would be fine.

Marbury in any and all of these deals is an ends to a mean -- the mean being wiping some strocious contracts off our books.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Whoa.. No Marbury.... Not even for Lee.. Not unless they were willing to take KT, SAR, and Artest.

If we did get Marbury I would tell the fool to go home if I were Petrie, and buy his butt out. Tell him that he will never play in a Kings uni, and tell him if he does not accept the buyout than he would be unable to sign w/ any other team for two years. I bet he might take a buyout if that were the case.

Reason? Because he wants to promote his cheap shoes, and not being able to play might hurt his business.

I understand the dislike for Marbury, but the reason you gave is actually a good thing. It's good to see a player making a quality product at affordable prices in todays markets where you have to pay $150+ for the latest kicks. I applaud Stephon for his business decisions.

Him as a player is completely different, and while I don't want him in a Kings uni, it's not as bad as you are all making out. If we can get back Lee and get another piece for the future then we do it. If we somehow get rid of SAR or Kenny to lessen the blow then it's a no brainer IMO. Also is a double plus as it opens up more mins for our few young guys, Justin, Garcia, Douby etc..

 

[dude12]

I like Artest alot but if we could get Lee and a Nate Robertson or any thing like that it seems like it would help both teams. Artest would fill the SF hole NY has while Salmons has shown that he can take over at SF and Lee would fit very nicely at PF for us. Sure wish the sides could agree to something.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

It'd be pretty easy actually:
Kings deal: Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur Rahim
Knicks deal Stephon Marbury/David Lee

I personally don't like the idea of dealing Ron-Ron AT ALL. I don't think that deal is enough to get Ron IMO. They'd have to include a lot more for me to bite, like a #1 pick and Mardy Collins.

i like that deal. we trade 3 players we have no interest in keeping for one large one that will expire after next season and a young player.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

Marbury is a rent player for a year and half. He has a huge contract that would be off the books alot quicker than Kenny Thomas or SAR, he is an idiot but if he acts stupid big deal suspend him, let our bench guys play and get a better draft pick. It could really speed up rebuilding around here.

 

[artest93fan]

Why dont you guys want him to stay he is by far our best defender, he really our only low post threat when it comes to scoring and hes shooting pretty good, I for one wouldnt mind if he stayed

 

[artest93fan]

what if he doesnt do anything this and just plays ball will you change your mind then

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

1. Punctuation is your friend. Seriously.

2. To answer your question: no. Not me personally, anyway.

I said before the start of the season, and at least once since the season started, that I want every single player on the team that's going to be above the age of 25 on Opening Night 2008 to be gone. Capital G, capital O, capital N, capital E. I had originally qualified that statement with "with the possible exception of Salmons," but after his hissy fit when Artest came back from suspension I am now revising that qualifier to read "with the possible exceptions of Udrih and Garcia."

 

[Fresno King]

If we can get David Lee in any way shape or form we should pull the trigger.

I like Artest too, but Lee is what we desperately need. If we can give them SAR and/or Thomas in the deal too, then what are we waiting for???

 

[Vlade4GM]

Probally something on the lines of this will get Artest to New York:

Kings deal: Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas, Quincy Douby
Knicks deal: Stephon Marbury, David Lee, 1st Round Pick

No Marbury unless they take on Miller.

 

[syadap]

Getting Lee and Robinson is actually a good deal if we let kenny go in the deal. I just have a feeling that ron ron would opt out and go to a team that he wants.

I do like ron alot because he can be are go to guy and he is the only kings player thus far that can guard a big small forward. But if ron would be opting out then i would rather have Lee and nate or a Lee and 1st package.

 

[Gary]

Why dont you guys want him to stay he is by far our best defender, he really our only low post threat when it comes to scoring and hes shooting pretty good, I for one wouldnt mind if he stayed

He does not fit with what our team is trying to do imo. He is a "black hole" of sorts when it comes to passing him the ball. If you watch the team with Miller/Hawes/Salmons/Udrih/Martin on the floor you see much more passing than when Artest/Garcia are on the floor. Watching garcia out there I feel the same way. He is somewhat a ball hog, and when the ball is passed to him he is off to the races trying to create a shot for himself.

 

[kingsfan101]

1. Punctuation is your friend. Seriously.

2. To answer your question: no. Not me personally, anyway.

I said before the start of the season, and at least once since the season started, that I want every single player on the team that's going to be above the age of 25 on Opening Night 2008 to be gone. Capital G, capital O, capital N, capital E. I had originally qualified that statement with "with the possible exception of Salmons," but after his hissy fit when Artest came back from suspension I am now revising that qualifier to read "with the possible exceptions of Udrih and Garcia."

Completely agree. Capital A, Capital G, Capital R, Capital E, Capital E

In Ron's case, there is another issue of him being a potential FA at the end of the year. Even if the current year goes incident free, it would take a brave GM/owner to sign him to a long term contract. I hope that such braveness is displayed by some other GM.

Given this, it would be wise to trade for him now, when we might get something in return (be it a good young player, or the ability to dump some contract).

On another note, another team that could be a potential trading partner could be Atlanta. They haven't made the playoffs in a long time, have a bunch of young players that might interest us, and would like to win now, since their draft pick for next year is already committed to Suns. They are also slipping lately, after starting the season strong.

While it might be difficult to work a trade directly with them, they might want to trade some of their prospects for some vets (JJ is also grumbling), and might be part of some 3-4 team trade that sends some assets our way. Haven't worked anything out. Just thinking that they might be one of the teams like Heat, Knicks, Cavs etc., who would like to win now. Their ownership struggles might act as a hinderance though.

 

[bajaden]

Its interesting that most of us are more than willing to trade away a player that basicly is just reaching his prime. He is considered by many to be the best two way player in the league. Without his notarity, a potential all star. I'm also one of those who would trade him for Lee and change. But are we shooting ourselves in the foot? Are we dealing out of emotion, or, are we making reasonable decisions. I believe that Webber was the same age when he arrived here. He also had past problems, but for the most part was a model citizen here. Maybe, just maybe, Artest has finally grown up, and if so, would we be so unwilling to keep him?

 

[Bricklayer]

Its interesting that most of us are more than willing to trade away a player that basicly is just reaching his prime. He is considered by many to be the best two way player in the league. Without his notarity, a potential all star. I'm also one of those who would trade him for Lee and change. But are we shooting ourselves in the foot? Are we dealing out of emotion, or, are we making reasonable decisions. I believe that Webber was the same age when he arrived here. He also had past problems, but for the most part was a model citizen here. Maybe, just maybe, Artest has finally grown up, and if so, would we be so unwilling to keep him?

Webber was 25 when he showed up in Sacto (Ron is 28), and no Webb's problems (mostly those of immaturity) were nothing at all like those of Ron Artest, who is just...strange. Strange does not denote evil, and I have stressed that distinction ever since Ron arrived. But it does mean strange. We have all known, or in some cases been, an immature college age person who likes to party too much, smokes pot, stays out too late, and clashes with authority. Those of us who have lived past that age have also seen (or been) that person who then grows up into true adulthood. Very few of us have known (or hopefully been) a queer duck like Ron. There is a screw loose up there, and you don't grow out of that. Get a kick of the revisionist history around here, with Ron "maturing" through a year last year when he fought with his coach, screamed at his teammates, was arrested twice, suspended for much of a month while the domestic violence charge was being worked over, emailed everyone that he was going to retire, then rescinded, and has alreayd missed 7 of our 10 games this season via a suspension. Quite the cornerstone.

I've mentioned before that any structure you try to build for the futrue depending on Ron as a major cog will be prone at any time, any day, any month, of suddenly and explosively coming to an end. Boom. So much for all your work. And the probelm grows acute very very soon now, as not only can Ron ditch us for no compensation, but in order to keep him (even if we could) we would have to dump a big long term guaranteed contract on him, whihc could make hima complete crippler for the franchise for years if he goes sour on you, but not so sour as to get kicked out of the league. Once he's got a long term deal, he is one incident from completely unmoveable.

You make a deal like the New York to protect the franchise. We are years and years from a point where Ron Artest could possibly be the tipping player for us to do anything significant. You are not only asking Ron to hold it together and be clean for 6 months, like a potential contender might as a trading partner, you are asking him to hold it together for years until he is into his 30s and perhaps getting ready to slow down anyway. Its a silly risk to take in our position. If we are talking title THIS year? Sure. Cross your fingers. You are talking try to put together another contender 4 or 5 years from now? No.

 

[Jerryaki]

Its interesting that most of us are more than willing to trade away a player that basicly is just reaching his prime. He is considered by many to be the best two way player in the league...Maybe, just maybe, Artest has finally grown up, and if so, would we be so unwilling to keep him?

for$6-$7M a year, sure, keep him. but that won't be his asking price come june. and i think you may be overestimating ron's level of talent a bit. while he's good and is an elite defender, his offense is less than stellar (particularly his shot selection). i don't think ron artest is or should be in the future of this franchise. even right now, we need guys who are before their prime, not guys in their prime.

 

[bajaden]

Webber was 25 when he showed up in Sacto (Ron is 28), and no Webb's problems (mostly those of immaturity) were nothing at all like those of Ron Artest, who is just...strange. Strange does not denote evil, and I have stressed that distinction ever since Ron arrived. But it does mean strange. We have all known, or in some cases been, an immature college age person who likes to party too much, smokes pot, stays out too late, and clashes with authority. Those of us who have lived past that age have also seen (or been) that person who then grows up into true adulthood. Very few of us have known (or hopefully been) a queer duck like Ron. There is a screw loose up there, and you don't grow out of that. Get a kick of the revisionist history around here, with Ron "maturing" through a year last year when he fought with his coach, screamed at his teammates, was arrested twice, suspended for much of a month while the domestic violence charge was being worked over, emailed everyone that he was going to retire, then rescinded, and has alreayd missed 7 of our 10 games this season via a suspension. Quite the cornerstone.

I've mentioned before that any structure you try to build for the futrue depending on Ron as a major cog will be prone at any time, any day, any month, of suddenly and explosively coming to an end. Boom. So much for all your work. And the probelm grows acute very very soon now, as not only can Ron ditch us for no compensation, but in order to keep him (even if we could) we would have to dump a big long term guaranteed contract on him, whihc could make hima complete crippler for the franchise for years if he goes sour on you, but not so sour as to get kicked out of the league. Once he's got a long term deal, he is one incident from completely unmoveable.

You make a deal like the New York to protect the franchise. We are years and years from a point where Ron Artest could possibly be the tipping player for us to do anything significant. You are not only asking Ron to hold it together and be clean for 6 months, like a potential contender might as a trading partner, you are asking him to hold it together for years until he is into his 30s and perhaps getting ready to slow down anyway. Its a silly risk to take in our position. If we are talking title THIS year? Sure. Cross your fingers. You are talking try to put together another contender 4 or 5 years from now? No.

I don't disagree with anything you said. And, as I said, I would do the deal to get Lee. Even if Ron was a normal person mentally, we have greater needs at the PF than we do at the SF. I just found it interesting how a person with so much talent can be regarded with such disdain.

I have a question for you Bricky. The NBA is full of imprints as far as fan's go. By that, I mean some players get a rep that they have no outside shot, or that their bad defensive players etc. That imprint, for the most part seems to stick with them, thanks in part to the media, for most of their career. Even when a player who had no outside shot, or played bad defense, works on his game and improves. How does a player convince the world that he no longer deserves that mantel?

 

[Kingzrool]

Hold on a minute.

Ron is contracted for just under 15 mil over the next two years with an ETO in 08. Starbury is contracted for just under 40 mil (capital M, capital I...) for the next two years and also has an ETO in 08.

Starbury seems every bit as "strange" as Ron. I know we are passionate about getting rid of KT and getting David Lee as we should be, but this seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.

 

[KCKingsCountry]

Hold on a minute.

Ron is contracted for just under 15 mil over the next two years with an ETO in 08. Starbury is contracted for just under 40 mil (capital M, capital I...) for the next two years and also has an ETO in 08.

Starbury seems every bit as "strange" as Ron. I know we are passionate about getting rid of KT and getting David Lee as we should be, but this seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.

Its bc of that 40 million number coming off the books quicker than we would be with Ron and KT salaries combined on the roster.

 

[BawLa]

I think the key for me is the draft picks. Bibby can return a draft pick in a trade, Artest can return a draft pick in a trade.

In the trade to NY, the thing to remember is that they would be taking KT and/or SAR off of our hands.

Get the draft pick, get the expirings, and if you can swoop up Lee too, all the better. I would make a strong effort at Lee, but I wouldn't let him hold up the deal if that is what it came down to.

With the cap room they would be clearing off of us, we can target a rebounding PF in free agency, so Lee isn't necessarily necessary. (that sounded wierd)

Lee was the 30th pick in the 2005 draft. I'd wager that NY's next year's 1st rounder is going to be in the teens. So target the draft pick first, then see if we can swoop Lee.

 

[AleksandarN]

Here is what I would do. This way we trim the bad contracts and get Lee in return.

Sacramento Kings


Incoming Players

Jerome James
Salary: $5,800,000 Years Remaining: 2

David Lee
Salary: $990,600 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 10.1 REB: 9.0 AST: 1.1 PER: 18.58

Malik Rose
Salary: $7,101,250 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 1.2 REB: 0.8 AST: 0.2 PER: -9.91

Stephon Marbury
Salary: $19,012,500 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 13.6 REB: 1.6 AST: 5.9 PER: 14.01

Outgoing Players: Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Ron Artest
New York Knicks



Incoming Players

Brad Miller
Salary: $10,500,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 12.1 REB: 8.7 AST: 2.4 PER: 13.29

Kenny Thomas
Salary: $7,875,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 2.6 REB: 4.3 AST: 1.1 PER: 6.39

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Salary: $5,800,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 1.7 REB: 1.7 AST: 0.7 PER: 6.15

Ron Artest
Salary: $7,400,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 20.3 REB: 4.7 AST: 4.3 PER: 20.74

Outgoing Players: Jerome James, David Lee, Malik Rose, Stephon Marbury

 

[dude12]

You can't just give away talent. Giving away Miller and Artest and getting back only Lee would set this franchise back more than a few years. Expiring contracts are good only if you can sign a top player or 2 with the cap room. There is absolutely no guarantee that can happen.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

You can't just give away talent. Giving away Miller and Artest and getting back only Lee would set this franchise back more than a few years. Expiring contracts are good only if you can sign a top player or 2 with the cap room. There is absolutely no guarantee that can happen.

how does it set us back any further? we already suck! destined lottery team. LOL

at least with that trade we get salary cap space AND a young player. we get to be mediocre at best with miller who is getting ready to retire after his contract is over and that ticking time bomb .. .