Anyone upset they could have had Knight?

beb0p

beb0p

Starter
#31
#31
I did think Knight would fall to #7 but I never understood the hype. He's solid but not a star, to me, Knight screams career journeyman. Quite frankly I'd rather have Eric Maynor, I heard he's available.

I already said in another tread that the top three guys from this draft is Irving, Kanter and Jimmer. So I'm very happy about the pick, not so much about the trade.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#32
#32
I really wanted Knight. But I'm thinking that if the front office really wanted Knight, they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this trade so soon. I mean, they had Evans and Cousins fall in their laps the last two years, they had to have known it could happen again. I think they made up their minds that upgrading their sf spot and getting Fredette was greater than getting anyone that could possibly fall to them at 7, and not getting a starting sf. That's the only way I can rationalize it all. I'm sure there is more to come as well because there is a log jam at sf on the team now.
 
ElRey

ElRey

Starter
#33
#33
wow Knight really slipped... should have worked out against other prospects! Dumb move by Knight and his agent. Utah was really pissed when he refused to workout against Walker/Jimmer, and so was the Kings reportedly. He could have been drafted as high as #3. Knight was visibly disappointed when they interviewed him after he was picked. Wonder how things would have worked out if Knight had actually worked out competitively against other prospects. But instead it was Jimmer that stole the show for the Kings.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#34
#34
Showtime said:
Jimmer shouldn't have ever been the target. He was the consolation prize. The kings never thought Knight would have slipped past 7, so they got the best deal they thought they could, which ended up being a huge mistake. Imagine them trading down and losing Evans, thinking he wouldn't have been there. Imagine them trading down and losing Cousins, because they didn't expect him to slip. Now, we will watch Jimmer instead of Knight or Kemba, because the kings made a stupid move. It's only worth it if the prospect of the deal (in this case: Salmons over Beno) is worth losing a potential slip (in this case: Knight), and it clearly wasn't.
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Look, I liked Knight a lot, and I said so on many occasions. He was my first choice at the PG position, other than Irving of course. But either Walker or Fredette is more ready to step in and play right now, and both are better pick and roll players right now, and there's no guarantee that both won't end up being better than Knight. So am I a little disappointed? Sure, but I don't think we lost big time. I think Fredette is going to surprise a lot of people, and apparently that includes you.

We're dealing with unproven players here, so there are no absolutes. If I had to put money which one of the three has the best chance to win ROY, I'd probably put my money on Walker, with Fredette a close second.
 
S

Smills91

Starter
#35
#35
Salmons plays defense, Beno doesn't. Otherwise they're comparable players talent-wise. That's why the trade happened. It's that simple. JR's podcast interview the other day had him coming out and stating he(the Kings) though both Knight and Kenter were overrated. And weren't too impressed.

I think Knight is the product of the hype machine from a lackluster draft at the top. He may or may not turn out, but he was never projected a top 10 pick based on potential, nor production in college until the real top 10 talents all withdrew from the draft. Petrie doesn't buy Hype.
 
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MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#37
#37
They are not comparable.

Beno is a team player, Salmons is not.

If John Salmons was John Salmons - John Salmons brain, then fine. I still dont like the talent for the contract, but whats worse is his ****ty attitude.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#38
#38
rainmaker said:
He was bad when he was here, and is worse now, both in production, and how much he'll cost. He also is not the type of sf we need. He can't pass, or simply won't. He can't create for others. He's not a great spot up shooter. He's not a great defender. He was a better defender when he was younger. He seeks his own offense and shots. That is the last thing we need.

So now we can't go after AK/Prince/Battier. We're stuck. We lost Beno, who is/was our only proven pg who could set up an offense. I think Jimmer can, but not yet. We now have zero vet presence in the backcourt for JImmer/Reke to learn from. What's worse, Jimmer and Knight were both there at 7. Now where does our cap space go? No sf anymore.
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You and I normally agree, but your dead wrong on a few things. Salmons is an excellent passer, and he was AI's setup man at Philly before he came to the Kings. For one year, he might have been the best player on the Kings. Everyone only remembers his final year and half here, when our talent base was deteriorating. Salmons has always been a very good defender. And although he did dominate the ball his last season here, he also shot over 40% from behind the 3 pt line.

That team was made up of Martin, Artest, and Salmons. Oh yeah, we had a less than interested Miller still there, and the great Mikki Moore. A rookie JT, and a Spencer Hawes. So yes, Salmons became a scorer, because he needed to be.

As for our capspace, I'm not sure what your talking about. We still have it. The trade hardly affected it. The trade doesn't stop us form going out and signing another SF if there's a good one to be had. I'm really having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean.
 
D

dbfish

Bench
#40
#40
bajaden said:
You and I normally agree, but your dead wrong on a few things. Salmons is an excellent passer, and he was AI's setup man at Philly before he came to the Kings. For one year, he might have been the best player on the Kings. Everyone only remembers his final year and half here, when our talent base was deteriorating. Salmons has always been a very good defender. And although he did dominate the ball his last season here, he also shot over 40% from behind the 3 pt line.

That team was made up of Martin, Artest, and Salmons. Oh yeah, we had a less than interested Miller still there, and the great Mikki Moore. A rookie JT, and a Spencer Hawes. So yes, Salmons became a scorer, because he needed to be.

As for our capspace, I'm not sure what your talking about. We still have it. The trade hardly affected it. The trade doesn't stop us form going out and signing another SF if there's a good one to be had. I'm really having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean.
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How could I forget Mikki Moore? Actually it was easy.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#41
#41
Showtime said:
So that just proves they gambled and lost. They gambled that Knight wouldn't slip, and he did. Imagine the kings losing Evans and Cousins from pre-draft deals for insignificant improvement, and instead having Flynn and Monroe. There was no need to do this deal. Big loss potential for marginal improvement potential. That's not a good strategy.
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We don't know for a fact that Petrie wanted Knight. But even if he did, he obviously didn't think the difference was great enough to sit and wait and see. If Knight hadn't slipped, you and no one else would even be talking about it. Hindesight is 100% as they say. I firmly believe that if Petrie wanted Knight that badly, he would have stayed put and waited. He obviously didn't want Walker, since he made the deal with Mil. and Charlotte, he surely knew who the Bobcats were going to pick at number 9. Therefore one can only assume that he got the player he wanted. So I don't think they gambled at all. I think they wanted Fredette all along, and decided the Salmons for Beno was a way to improve the SF position and also clear space for Jimmer.

And since my theory is the one that happened, I have facts on my side, and all you have is speculation. So I win! :D
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#42
#42
this feels like there year we made a trade before the draft and ended up missing on dejuan blair. i guess the kings never learn. i would have preferred drafting knight and getting a battier/ak/prince through free agency as opposed to drafting jimmer and getting salmons. if u break it down it just seems like we traded the #7 pick for #10 and beno for salmons.
 
M

mr. moustache

Bench
#43
#43
steelevt said:
this feels like there year we made a trade before the draft and ended up missing on dejuan blair. i guess the kings never learn. i would have preferred drafting knight and getting a battier/ak/prince through free agency as opposed to drafting jimmer and getting salmons. if u break it down it just seems like we traded the #7 pick for #10 and beno for salmons.
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I LOATHE this trade, but there's no reason we can't pickup a SF in free agency. Yes we have a boatload of SFs, but for the most part, they're moveable. Not counting the rookies, only Casspi and Greene are true SFs anyway. We've got a glut of wings for sure.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#44
#44
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
They are not comparable.

Beno is a team player, Salmons is not.

If John Salmons was John Salmons - John Salmons brain, then fine. I still dont like the talent for the contract, but whats worse is his ****ty attitude.
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Kind of makes you wonder why he was one of the most liked players in the locker room while he was with the Kings, having such a poor attitude and all.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#45
#45
bajaden said:
We don't know for a fact that Petrie wanted Knight. But even if he did, he obviously didn't think the difference was great enough to sit and wait and see. If Knight hadn't slipped, you and no one else would even be talking about it. Hindesight is 100% as they say. I firmly believe that if Petrie wanted Knight that badly, he would have stayed put and waited. He obviously didn't want Walker, since he made the deal with Mil. and Charlotte, he surely knew who the Bobcats were going to pick at number 9. Therefore one can only assume that he got the player he wanted. So I don't think they gambled at all. I think they wanted Fredette all along, and decided the Salmons for Beno was a way to improve the SF position and also clear space for Jimmer.

And since my theory is the one that happened, I have facts on my side, and all you have is speculation. So I win! :D
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LOL at the post saying that Geoff wanted Knight. In one of Jerry Reynolds youtube videos or whatever he supposedly said that they couldnt learn too much about Knight because he didnt work out against anyone and they directly traded back to 10 where they knew they had no shot at Knight. Jimmer was Geoff's guy all along and people only fell in love with Knight because he is a "name guy" and they like to criticize. Neither Jimmer or Knight played any defense last year, and Jimmer had to carry his team. Jimmer will be a better fit than Knight because he's a better shooter and more experienced player, and he tested out as one of the most athletic players at the combine so it's not like he wont be able to learn to play D.
 
Hoovtrain

Hoovtrain

All-Star
#46
#46
Telemachus said:
Kind of makes you wonder why he was one of the most liked players in the locker room while he was with the Kings, having such a poor attitude and all.
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I don't ever recall him being a locker room favorite. I do remember him storming out of the locker room when he was relegated to the bench though.
 
H

hammystyle

Starter
#48
#48
Hindsight?

There is no hindsight factor to the trade. That's giving the front office a pass they don't deserve. Knight being there was realistic. Utah liked Kanter and Toronto was rumored on Bayombo. They actually took Valanciunas, but that underscores the point. There were only two possible teams in the top 6 who would take Knight, Utah and Toronto, and they had other needs and comparable prospects who they might take. Cleveland taking Irving, Minny with Rubio, and Washington with Wall ruled the out.

Hindsight means that considering the options at the time the Kings made the best deal and something unforeseen happened. An hour before the draft they traded Beno for Salmons and went down three spots. I just don't see where the pressure or prerogative for that trade comes from. Its mind-boggling. The trade looked bad when it happened, and looked worse an hour later when Knight was there at 7.

If anything, smart basketball fans and analysts can agree that it was a dumb move. Perhaps hindsight will cut the Kings FO a break and Jimmer will turn out better than Knight and Salmons will be better than Beno.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#49
#49
hammystyle said:
There is no hindsight factor to the trade. That's giving the front office a pass they don't deserve. Knight being there was realistic. Utah liked Kanter and Toronto was rumored on Bayombo. They actually took Valanciunas, but that underscores the point. There were only two possible teams in the top 6 who would take Knight, Utah and Toronto, and they had other needs and comparable prospects who they might take. Cleveland taking Irving, Minny with Rubio, and Washington with Wall ruled the out.

Hindsight means that considering the options at the time the Kings made the best deal and something unforeseen happened. An hour before the draft they traded Beno for Salmons and went down three spots. I just don't see where the pressure or prerogative for that trade comes from. Its mind-boggling. The trade looked bad when it happened, and looked worse an hour later when Knight was there at 7.

If anything, smart basketball fans and analysts can agree that it was a dumb move. Perhaps hindsight will cut the Kings FO a break and Jimmer will turn out better than Knight and Salmons will be better than Beno.
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what i dont understand is why the proposed trade occurred before the draft. there were plenty of trades made after the picks were made. why did we "have" to trade before we saw who fell to us. i just feel we didnt learn from the dejuan blair incident
 
RookieOfTheDay

RookieOfTheDay

Starter
#50
#50
hammystyle said:
There is no hindsight factor to the trade. That's giving the front office a pass they don't deserve. Knight being there was realistic. Utah liked Kanter and Toronto was rumored on Bayombo. They actually took Valanciunas, but that underscores the point. There were only two possible teams in the top 6 who would take Knight, Utah and Toronto, and they had other needs and comparable prospects who they might take. Cleveland taking Irving, Minny with Rubio, and Washington with Wall ruled the out.

Hindsight means that considering the options at the time the Kings made the best deal and something unforeseen happened. An hour before the draft they traded Beno for Salmons and went down three spots. I just don't see where the pressure or prerogative for that trade comes from. Its mind-boggling. The trade looked bad when it happened, and looked worse an hour later when Knight was there at 7.

If anything, smart basketball fans and analysts can agree that it was a dumb move. Perhaps hindsight will cut the Kings FO a break and Jimmer will turn out better than Knight and Salmons will be better than Beno.
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It doesn't matter if Knight being there was realistic if they didn't want knight. Jimmer was obviously their guy all along. And it was a wise decision too. Jimmer was probably the most NBA ready player in the draft and the Kings needed someone who can contribute right away.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#51
#51
steelevt said:
what i dont understand is why the proposed trade occurred before the draft. there were plenty of trades made after the picks were made. why did we "have" to trade before we saw who fell to us. i just feel we didnt learn from the dejuan blair incident
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All the trades were made before the picks were made. Not all of them prior to the draft, but there were all prior to the picks.
 
Casspi

Casspi

G-League
#52
#52
i was upset at first like WTF !!@!!@ but when i think of it jimmer might be the perfect fit
trading beno for salmons is kind of retarded i must say but jimmer and evans could really be a good PG-SG couple jimmer seems more of a team player then evans so i would go for him leading the ball . and his also more of a shooter then beno so that opens up the D 2
 
H

hammystyle

Starter
#53
#53
RookieOfTheDay said:
It doesn't matter if Knight being there was realistic if they didn't want knight. Jimmer was obviously their guy all along. And it was a wise decision too. Jimmer was probably the most NBA ready player in the draft and the Kings needed someone who can contribute right away.
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You're right that it might not matter because Jimmer was just the guy they wanted. I just don't like that hindsight excuse.

Is it wise?....I wasn't that thrilled by the Raymond Felton trade idea, but that is a player who can contribute right away...if that is what you are looking for. I'll take Raymond Felton's next five years over Jimmer's. There's no doubt I'd rather have Knight then Fredette though.

I hope I'm wrong. I hate being pessimistic...but today was just a dumb day for the Kings. It seems like there were a lot of different voices and agendas trying to get things done.

Honeycutt was a very good 2nd round pick. I really like that one.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#54
#54
It was a bad trade initially that became horrible once it started looking like Knight was going to drop. Jimmer could still turn out nicely, but you could have had him or Knight without giving up your only other PG and taking on a player who has all the issues you don't need.

On the darkly bright side, Salmons always manages to burn out with his team after a year, so he may not even make it on the floor for the Kings with the lockout coming.
 
sc3252

sc3252

Bench
#55
#55
Tetsujin said:
For some reason this feels like another "How dare Petrie select Bust Evans over Ricky Rifle Rubio?" type situation. I'm just going to hold off on judgement until we actually see how things go on the court.
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Personally I wanted Jimmer all along, but the thing that worried me was it didn't give Petrie the option to take what could have been the better player(I am not a talent evaluator). Like I said though I wanted Jimmer all along so I am not really too disappointed for how everything worked out.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#57
#57
To answer the OP question, no.

All indications are that we didn't want Knight to begin with. I don't see the point in continuously arguing that we blew it by agreeing to the trade before the draft. WE DIDN'T WANT THE GUY. We got the guy we wanted! Now you can argue the merits of bringing back Salmons, but arguing that it was stupid to trade down is mystifying. If we wanted Jimmer and traded down to, say, 25 and picked him up there, what difference does it make? WE GOT THE GUY WE WANTED. As far as I am concerned, the lower the better. He's cheaper that way.

By the way, how much cheaper is a number 10 than a 7?
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#58
#58
Warhawk said:
To answer the OP question, no.

All indications are that we didn't want Knight to begin with. I don't see the point in continuously arguing that we blew it by agreeing to the trade before the draft. WE DIDN'T WANT THE GUY. We got the guy we wanted! Now you can argue the merits of bringing back Salmons, but arguing that it was stupid to trade down is mystifying. If we wanted Jimmer and traded down to, say, 25 and picked him up there, what difference does it make? WE GOT THE GUY WE WANTED. As far as I am concerned, the lower the better. He's cheaper that way.

By the way, how much cheaper is a number 10 than a 7?
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About half a million per season.
 
Sac4cwebb

Sac4cwebb

G-League
#59
#59
I really like Jimmer....even more than Knight. He will spread the floor so other teams can't pack the middle when Tyreke drives to the basket. He reminds me of one of my all time Kings favorites. Danny Ainge.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#60
#60
I don't think it was an excuse. I think Jimmer is the player targeted by the Kings, period. Now you can argue that Jimmer is not the player they should have targeted.

I think the Kings knew Jimmer would still be available (and cheaper) at the 10th pick. I don't think they would have done the trade before the draft even started, if they had wanted Knight or Walker. They got who they wanted.
 
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