And Starting at the 3 for your kings JOHN SALMONS

[Gary]

Ummmmm Salmons better not start... I think Francisco should start in Artest place... Thats what I think

Me too, but I think Salmons is on the block and I would rather a team trade us talent based off of a 18ppg/6rpg/3apg Salmons instead of a 10ppg/3rpg/2apg Salmons.. See what I mean? But again, if Petrie has no interest in trading Salmons then I would rather start Garcia.. And yes, even though Garcia plays better than Salmons off the bench.. It rubs me the wrong way too that Salmons can be so crappy in one role yet so good in another. That's called mopey/pouting/wah wah..

 

[BawLa]

Me too, but I think Salmons is on the block and I would rather a team trade us talent based off of a 18ppg/6rpg/3apg Salmons instead of a 10ppg/3rpg/2apg Salmons.. See what I mean? But again, if Petrie has no interest in trading Salmons then I would rather start Garcia.. And yes, even though Garcia plays better than Salmons off the bench.. It rubs me the wrong way too that Salmons can be so crappy in one role yet so good in another. That's called mopey/pouting/wah wah..

Agree 100%

If we can get an expiring/pick/young talent for Artest then I think we could get an expiring/pick for Salmons. We can turn around and throw that money at Garcia, who is more desirable to keep anyway.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Were the new Sonics.....

 

[Bricklayer]

I have no use for guys like Salmons or KT. Guys who can only play when things are just perfectly right for their delicate little millionarie souls to give you an actual effort. But I was saying by midyear last year that with the numbers he was putting up, Salmons could be a cost effective starter...until the league catches on of course. And as far as him or Cisco, I'll take Cisco's dumbass all effort all the time routine over John's wussy pout any day, but John has to be the starter. Cisco, you see, will actually give you full effort as a starter or a bencher, and his energy and versatility is well suited to a 6th man type. John on the other hand has to start or he will just take his ball and go home. Would very much like that to be some other team's problem as well -- John is not a winner. But so long as he is here, and Cisco is here, John starting + Cisco off the bench gives you a lot more firepower than Cisco starting and John quitting on you.

P.S. Green is the nifty wildcard at the position of course, but he's 19 and has a lot of growing to do. Barring injury its probably just spot minutes this year at least.

 

[tyrant]

i dont want salmons or garcia in the starting lineup. they both can kick rocks. we are going to have a good/deep team. we're not done making moves so i just hope we can get a real sf and someone in the post. im excited about green. and i agree with what brick said. at least garcia can give you the same energy starter or not.

 

[Aenadin]

Maybe Salmons will start, attract a few teams and be packaged along with brad for a pick and a young guy half way into the season?

that can happen... but i wouldnt know this certifies that the 3 spot is open for the taking and training camp will determine who gets that spot

heck even Jason thompson can apply for that hes got the speed too

 

[bigbadred00]

My worry would be is defensively I think our starting 5 will be weak no matter who is starting. Kevin is at best an average defender, and so is Beno. Not sure about Spencer or Jason but I don't think they are anything special either defensively. We really need someone to defend the paint in the future, I hope either Hawes or Thompson can step up.

 

[nbrans]

I do think that Salmons was piqued when he got bumped from the starting lineup by Artest after averaging 20/5/5 as a starter, which was a bit delusional. He could have averaged 40 points a game and Artest was still going to be a starter. But I really don't think that Salmons is a pouty player. I think he gets an unfairly bad rap for how he plays coming off the bench, and I question the conventional wisdom around here that he has a bad attitude. He always plays hard, he was the most consistent defender on the team whether his offense was working or not, and he plays unselfishly.

The thing about Salmons that makes him ill-suited as a bench player but good as a starter is that he really picks his spots and opportunities. Like Kevin, he mostly plays within the offense, he doesn't tend to force action, and since he's not much of a spot-up shooter, he is basically dependent upon picking his spots and being opportunistic on offense. Over the course of 30 minutes as a starter, he may have 15 quiet minutes offensively followed by a 20 point burst in the next 15 minutes. As a starter, his stats are fantastic, and that playing-within-the-offense character really meshes with Kevin Martin. But if you break up those 30 minutes into two, if he were coming off the bench that's a 0 one game and a really good game the next, which is essentially the patented John Salmons coming off the bench pattern.

There are some guys who can contribute in bursts off the bench and are ideally suited to that role, there are some guys who are better starters. There may have been some pouting going on, but I honestly think the bigger factor is just that the way Salmons plays is more conducive and consistent when it's stretched over 30 minutes rather than trying to expect him to make something happen in a short burst.

Garcia, on the other hand, is one of those players who is ideally suited to a bench role because he can come in, make some things happen, bring energy, and make one or two supremely boneheaded plays.

 

[Kingster]

I don't recall him pouting more than any other player who was a starter and got benched. His attitude, for the vast, vast majority of the time, has been nothing but exemplary.

His pouting didn't show itself in facial expressions (Kenny Thomas), or what he mouthed to the media, but in his putrid performance on the floor when he wasn't starting. Whether it was pouting, frustration, a poor-me attitude, or some or all of the above, he's proven that he must be a starter to be effective.

 

[Kingster]

I have no use for guys like Salmons or KT. Guys who can only play when things are just perfectly right for their delicate little millionarie souls to give you an actual effort. But I was saying by midyear last year that with the numbers he was putting up, Salmons could be a cost effective starter...until the league catches on of course. And as far as him or Cisco, I'll take Cisco's dumbass all effort all the time routine over John's wussy pout any day, but John has to be the starter. Cisco, you see, will actually give you full effort as a starter or a bencher, and his energy and versatility is well suited to a 6th man type. John on the other hand has to start or he will just take his ball and go home. Would very much like that to be some other team's problem as well -- John is not a winner. But so long as he is here, and Cisco is here, John starting + Cisco off the bench gives you a lot more firepower than Cisco starting and John quitting on you.


P.S. Green is the nifty wildcard at the position of course, but he's 19 and has a lot of growing to do. Barring injury its probably just spot minutes this year at least.

Ditto to everything you said, with a minor tweak - I think Cisco plays pretty smart when he doesn't play out of position.

 

[16to93]

I do think that Salmons was piqued when he got bumped from the starting lineup by Artest after averaging 20/5/5 as a starter, which was a bit delusional. He could have averaged 40 points a game and Artest was still going to be a starter. But I really don't think that Salmons is a pouty player. I think he gets an unfairly bad rap for how he plays coming off the bench, and I question the conventional wisdom around here that he has a bad attitude. He always plays hard, he was the most consistent defender on the team whether his offense was working or not, and he plays unselfishly.

The thing about Salmons that makes him ill-suited as a bench player but good as a starter is that he really picks his spots and opportunities. Like Kevin, he mostly plays within the offense, he doesn't tend to force action, and since he's not much of a spot-up shooter, he is basically dependent upon picking his spots and being opportunistic on offense. Over the course of 30 minutes as a starter, he may have 15 quiet minutes offensively followed by a 20 point burst in the next 15 minutes. As a starter, his stats are fantastic, and that playing-within-the-offense character really meshes with Kevin Martin. But if you break up those 30 minutes into two, if he were coming off the bench that's a 0 one game and a really good game the next, which is essentially the patented John Salmons coming off the bench pattern.

There are some guys who can contribute in bursts off the bench and are ideally suited to that role, there are some guys who are better starters. There may have been some pouting going on, but I honestly think the bigger factor is just that the way Salmons plays is more conducive and consistent when it's stretched over 30 minutes rather than trying to expect him to make something happen in a short burst.

Garcia, on the other hand, is one of those players who is ideally suited to a bench role because he can come in, make some things happen, bring energy, and make one or two supremely boneheaded plays.

Good point. For some reason, John just can't seem to be able to provide an immediate burst off the bench.

 

[jthompson1]

Anybody know how old Salmons is?

 

[BMiller52]

anybody Know How Old Salmons Is?

28.

 

[Warhawk]

His pouting didn't show itself in facial expressions (Kenny Thomas), or what he mouthed to the media, but in his putrid performance on the floor when he wasn't starting. Whether it was pouting, frustration, a poor-me attitude, or some or all of the above, he's proven that he must be a starter to be effective.

I tend to agree with Nbrans, though. I don't think his "lesser" performance as a sub is "attitude" (like KT and some others we have seen), it's just his game and the way it fits in to the team and the flow of the game.

Attributing that to "pouting" is unfair if that is the case because I really haven't seen anything significant out of John to make me think he is anything but a team player and a pretty positive influence on the team as a whole.

 

[jthompson1]

28.

thanx

 

[BMiller52]

thanx

No problem.

 

[tyrant]

I tend to agree with Nbrans, though. I don't think his "lesser" performance as a sub is "attitude" (like KT and some others we have seen), it's just his game and the way it fits in to the team and the flow of the game.

Attributing that to "pouting" is unfair if that is the case because I really haven't seen anything significant out of John to make me think he is anything but a team player and a pretty positive influence on the team as a whole.

just because you can twist someones words to make it more agreeable with what your saying doesnt mean that its right. salmons has an attitude issue. people have tried to explain to you that its not verbal and there is no pouting. no one is calling him a whiner. it shows in his game. and thats alot worse than verbally saying that you're not happy coming off the bench. give it up.

 

[nbrans]

just because you can twist someones words to make it more agreeable with what your saying doesnt mean that its right. salmons has an attitude issue. people have tried to explain to you that its not verbal and there is no pouting. no one is calling him a whiner. it shows in his game. and thats alot worse than verbally saying that you're not happy coming off the bench. give it up.

Why do you think Michael Finley starts and Manu Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio? It's certainly not because Finley is the better player. It's because Finley is better as a starter because he gets into the rhythm and doesn't get cold sitting on the bench to start the game. Ginobili is the ultimate sparkplug.

Some guys just play better as starters, and it's not always about ego.

 

[CruzDude]

Salmons can take the Kings into the playoffs, not "up to" but into. He is an ideal 3 for now and has the experience to lead the "kids" to bigger and better. His stint at the beginning of last year showed what higher level of player he is and can be for the Kings. But I disagree with one comment many posters here in have made, and I myself until finding out differently, about John and his perceived "pouting" on the bench when not starting. Disappointment yes, pouting, no! John is above that and I think a genuine good guy. So lets give him a break and see what he does as a front court leader with Beno.

Welcome John, to the next level on the yellow brick road.

 

[tyrant]

Why do you think Michael Finley starts and Manu Ginobili comes off the bench in San Antonio? It's certainly not because Finley is the better player. It's because Finley is better as a starter because he gets into the rhythm and doesn't get cold sitting on the bench to start the game. Ginobili is the ultimate sparkplug.

Some guys just play better as starters, and it's not always about ego.

horrible argument, finley went to a championship team. they dont cater to anyone. especially the spurs. manu comes off the bench because the spurs have no bench. do you think that manu would come off the bench if they had the same players we had a few years ago? (bojax,hedo, barry, wallace). no

 

[tyrant]

Salmons can take the Kings into the playoffs, not "up to" but into. He is an ideal 3 for now and has the experience to lead the "kids" to bigger and better. His stint at the beginning of last year showed what higher level of player he is and can be for the Kings. But I disagree with one comment many posters here in have made, and I myself until finding out differently, about John and his perceived "pouting" on the bench when not starting. Disappointment yes, pouting, no! John is above that and I think a genuine good guy. So lets give him a break and see what he does as a front court leader with Beno.

Welcome John, to the next level on the yellow brick road.

question #1=the ideal 3? really? do you want your ideal 3 to stink coming off the bench?

question #2=salmons can the kings to the playoffs? i can dispute that

question #3 what yellow brick road are you talking about?

 

[NewMonkey]

I tend to agree with Nbrans, though. I don't think his "lesser" performance as a sub is "attitude" (like KT and some others we have seen), it's just his game and the way it fits in to the team and the flow of the game.

Attributing that to "pouting" is unfair if that is the case because I really haven't seen anything significant out of John to make me think he is anything but a team player and a pretty positive influence on the team as a whole.

Agreed.

 

[jthompson1]

Salmons can take the Kings into the playoffs, not "up to" but into. He is an ideal 3 for now and has the experience to lead the "kids" to bigger and better. His stint at the beginning of last year showed what higher level of player he is and can be for the Kings. But I disagree with one comment many posters here in have made, and I myself until finding out differently, about John and his perceived "pouting" on the bench when not starting. Disappointment yes, pouting, no! John is above that and I think a genuine good guy. So lets give him a break and see what he does as a front court leader with Beno.

Welcome John, to the next level on the yellow brick road.

Great Point!

 

[Bricklayer]

Salmons can take the Kings into the playoffs, not "up to" but into. He is an ideal 3 for now and has the experience to lead the "kids" to bigger and better. His stint at the beginning of last year showed what higher level of player he is and can be for the Kings. But I disagree with one comment many posters here in have made, and I myself until finding out differently, about John and his perceived "pouting" on the bench when not starting. Disappointment yes, pouting, no! John is above that and I think a genuine good guy. So lets give him a break and see what he does as a front court leader with Beno.

Welcome John, to the next level on the yellow brick road.

Oh my.

John is 29 years old. He has played 20 career playoff minutes. Not 20 minutes per game in the playoffs. Not 20 games. No, he has a grand total of 20 playoff minutes. He would barely recognize the playoffs if you drew him a picture.

 

[Spike]

just because you can twist someones words to make it more agreeable with what your saying doesnt mean that its right. salmons has an attitude issue. people have tried to explain to you that its not verbal and there is no pouting. no one is calling him a whiner. it shows in his game. and thats alot worse than verbally saying that you're not happy coming off the bench. give it up.

And people have explained to you that there is no history of attitude or selfish behavior with Salmons. The knife cuts both ways. I seriously doubt that he's going to send the message that he should be a starter by sucking as much as possible.

 

[Bricklayer]

And people have explained to you that there is no history of attitude or selfish behavior with Salmons.

Actually there is a 100% history of it, but largely restricted to the pout off the bench. It was the same crap in Philly.

 

[Gary]

Meh.. I couldn't care less.. If Salmons hits for more than 18ppg while not holding onto the ball for more than a few seconds (which he has no history of doing) and raises his trade value near the deadline then I am all for him starting, pouter or not.

 

[bench_blob]

i dont want salmons or garcia in the starting lineup. they both can kick rocks. we are going to have a good/deep team. we're not done making moves so i just hope we can get a real sf and someone in the post. im excited about green. and i agree with what brick said. at least garcia can give you the same energy starter or not.

I would agree with you on the Cisco we saw prior to the second half of last year. If you paid close attention, you would have seen took his game to a whole new level. He plays like he did last 20-25 games, and alot of his effectiveness is tied to shooting 45% plus, and eliminating the wild out of control forrays to the hoop, then he can be a real difference maker as a starter or 6th man.

I don't understand all the hate towards John Salmons. He is what he is, a score first mentality and underrated defender.

 

[jimbodan]

I hope Greene starts for us.

 

[Spike]

I hope Greene starts for us.

I hope so too. Just, not this year. I don't know that he's ready for that yet.