Al Thorton? nbadraft.net

[Gary]

The new mock draft has the Kings picking Al Thorton.

For some reason I was thinking of this guy as a 6'8 PF or something. Supposedly he can shoot, and almost has NBA 3pt range (has college 3pt range). and can face up. Also good help defender. I have not seen the guy play, but as a larger SF or a smaller PF (depending on the lineup) would you take a chance on this guy?

I have also heard this guy could be the bust of the lottery as well because of him pretty much reaching his potential.

Any other news on this guy?

 

[Bricklayer]

Just say no to tweener forwards.

You have to wonder how many times Sacto fans have to get smacked in the face by that before they learn.

As an aside, as for him as a SF, I have little to go on. I would generally put him as a talented scorer but at the bottom of the list of the 5 SFs in the top part of this draft (Brewer, Wright, Green, Young and Thornton), and if he succeeds it seems likely that he will be a pure scorer who may not do much else. God that type of player sure does lead a lot of top teams.

In any case, the risk factors for a Geoffing is that he's older than any of the other top prospects (23, and thus likely near the end of his development curve), and that he's turning into a steady shooter with the skills to get to the hoop. If, for instance, you were a playoff team looking for a readymade scorer for your open SF position -- a Miami perhaps, he would be a safe pick. If on the other hand you are a rebuilding team looking for a guy to surprise and become a major star out of a middling lottery position, than maybe not so much.

 

[nbrans]

Well, I think Thornton does have the skills and athleticism to play small forward in the NBA -- Shawn Marion is the comparison, only with a better outside shot. My problem with him is that he's already 23 so you wonder how much more he's going to improve. He's still pretty raw in some aspects of his game, so that's some cause for concern.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

ive seen him a few times vs BC, he hurt them pretty bad but i didnt really see a jump shot of his so im not sure im sold on his shooting, i'd say stay away.. i'd rather take green or wright at 10 if were going SF, hawes if were going big man.. the more i read about hawes, the more i like him

 

[KevinSalvadori]

ive seen him a few times vs BC, he hurt them pretty bad but i didnt really see a jump shot of his so im not sure im sold on his shooting, i'd say stay away.. i'd rather take green or wright at 10 if were going SF, hawes if were going big man.. the more i read about hawes, the more i like him

My preference would be Wright, then Green, then Thornton (I haven't watched a lot of Hawes), but something tells me Thornton may be the best F available at 10.

 

[ParniValjak]

I'd rather go with Thaddeus Young!

 

[SacTownKid]

Just say no to tweener forwards.

You have to wonder how many times Sacto fans have to get smacked in the face by that before they learn.

As an aside, as for him as a SF, I have little to go on. I would generally put him as a talented scorer but at the bottom of the list of the 5 SFs in the top part of this draft (Brewer, Wright, Green, Young and Thornton), and if he succeeds it seems likely that he will be a pure scorer who may not do much else. God that type of player sure does lead a lot of top teams.

In any case, the risk factors for a Geoffing is that he's older than any of the other top prospects (23, and thus likely near the end of his development curve), and that he's turning into a steady shooter with the skills to get to the hoop. If, for instance, you were a playoff team looking for a readymade scorer for your open SF position -- a Miami perhaps, he would be a safe pick. If on the other hand you are a rebuilding team looking for a guy to surprise and become a major star out of a middling lottery position, than maybe not so much.

I think this crop of "tweener" forwards could be the exception. They all have what makes most "tweener" forwards not successful because of what they lack, major league athletic skill.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think this crop of "tweener" forwards could be the exception. They all have what makes most "tweener" forwards not successful because of what they lack, major league athletic skill.

To the degree that that might be true, its true precisely because the athleticism will allow them to actually play SF, rather than having to shift up to PF becuase they are too slow footed. Hence they will not be tweeners at all, but guys playing their more natural NBA position.

NBA PFs, the good ones, are BIG. 6'9" musclemen at the smallest. And the elites are nearly all pressing 7'0" since Webb (a musclebound 6'9 1/2") went down a few years back. Who are the really good perennial All-Star PFs? Duncan, Dirk, KG, Pau, Bosh, Howard, O'Neal...these guys are huge 6'11"/7'0" tall (Bosh is "only" 6'10"). And the top guys who aren't close to 7'0" are all earthmovers -- Randolph, Boozer, Brand etc. -- who could snap a small tree in their teeth. This seeming urge to throw every 6'8" tweener stringbean who comes down the pike in there amongst the monsters is just nutty. The monsters eat those guys for lunch. You want a PF, go find a guy 6'10" and up, or a 6'9" barrelchested beast who grabs you by the crotch and does the military press with you until you agree to draft him.

As an aside, this may go a bit beyond Thronton, who hopefully has the game to make it in the NBA just as a pure scoring SF, but there are good tweeners, and bad tweeners. Good tweeners are 4/5s and 2/3s. For the simple reason that the positions they straddle play similar roles -- PF and Cs are both expected to rebound, bang, play in the post, clog the lane. Its a similar role. OGs and SFs are both the pure scorers, neither position being counted on as primary ballhandlers, primary rebounders etc. So a tweener between those positions can play both without being out of place or not having the right skills for one or the other. But the 1/2s and 3/4s are problematic, because those tweeners straddle positions with radically different expectations. From passer to scorer at the PG/OG, and with a huge jump in size between the two positons as well. And from perimeter to interior at the SF/PF, from outside scorer to inside banger. Those are bad tweens except amongst the most special of talents (say a KG). Only the rarest of birds can play both positons without sucking at at least one (in the case of a 3/4 nromally being too small and soft to bang with the big boys).

 

[Gary]

I am a bit hesitant as well in drafting a guy like Thorton, but I am thinking about it and he seems to fit the bill as a nice strong SF that can play PF in a small lineup. The Marion comparison got me thinking.

 

[nbrans]

As an aside, this may go a bit beyond Thronton, who hopefully has the game to make it in the NBA just as a pure scoring SF, but there are good tweeners, and bad tweeners. Good tweeners are 4/5s and 2/3s. For the simple reason that the positions they straddle play similar roles -- PF and Cs are both expected to rebound, bang, play in the post, clog the lane. Its a similar role. OGs and SFs are both the pure scorers, neither position being counted on as primary ballhandlers, primary rebounders etc. So a tweener between those positions can play both without being out of place or not having the right skills for one or the other. But the 1/2s and 3/4s are problematic, because those tweeners straddle positions with radically different expectations. From passer to scorer at the PG/OG, and with a huge jump in size between the two positons as well. And from perimeter to interior at the SF/PF, from outside scorer to inside banger. Those are bad tweens except amongst the most special of talents (say a KG). Only the rarest of birds can play both positons without sucking at at least one (in the case of a 3/4 nromally being too small and soft to bang with the big boys).

I definitely agree with this. The only exceptions are when you have a transcendent player at a certain position, like a beast PF/C in Amare which makes it ok that Marion is a tweener PF, or when the guy is coming off the bench, like Bobby Jackson back in the day. Then good tweeners can have value, but since we already have a 1/2 in Douby, I'd say our tweener quota is full.

 

[sidney]

You want a PF, go find a guy 6'10" and up, or a 6'9" barrelchested beast who grabs you by the crotch and does the military press with you until you agree to draft him.

Nice Imagery

 

[JSin]

Just say no to tweener forwards.

Isn't Shawn Marion a tweener forward? Antawn Jamison, Lamar Odom, Kirelinko?

 

[Bricklayer]

Isn't Shawn Marion a tweener forward? Antawn Jamison, Lamar Odom, Kirelinko?

Kirilenko is a SF.

Marion is a SF playing out of position, just as Amare is a PF out of position. Its the wacky, and unique system. Also the unique player -- find me the SF who can average 10rebs and 2blks a game, and maybe he can play some PF (although he still gets killed in there against the big guys).

Jamison is a pure tweener...and if you want him as your PF well bless you. You could get he, and Harrington, and Juwan, and Twoine and go have an all softness block party.

Odom is the best example of a guy who legitimately can play both with his size (6'10") and mobility. Of course he is a mini KG who has also played OG and all the way down to PG. And again, with his size he is able to grab 10rebs a game, to do at least some of what a big is supposed to do for you. There was a reason why a couple of years back when there were Peja for Odom rumors about I shot an email over to the Kings demanding they pull the trigger.

The distinction being BTW that other than Jamison the players you listed have natural positions where they play quite well, and then just have the versatility to be able to swing elsewhere. They aren't caught between worlds. Kind of hard to call a Kirilnko or Marion a tweener when they have been All Star SFs. Odom was very close as well, although he makes the more leigitmate figure as a PF (somehwat, still cannot post or defend the position).

 

[OptimusRhyme]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WBBBw3OoFrQ

I'll take him on this dunk alone.

 

[BMiller52]

Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie was in Orlando to observe draft workouts Tuesday and is expected to return today. After watching a morning workout that involved at least six other teams, the Kings -- who have the No. 10 pick -- held a private workout that included Florida shooting guard Corey Brewer and Florida State small forward Al Thornton. http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/207878.html

 

[Bricklayer]

Kings basketball president Geoff Petrie was in Orlando to observe draft workouts Tuesday and is expected to return today. After watching a morning workout that involved at least six other teams, the Kings -- who have the No. 10 pick -- held a private workout that included Florida shooting guard Corey Brewer and Florida State small forward Al Thornton. [URL="http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/207878.html"]http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/207878.html[/URL]

That's right baby -- we build our contending teams one SF at a time.

Makes sense though given that they were in Florida to work out the Florida guys. Would feel better though if some of the guys in that 6 team workout included Horford and Noah.

 

[ParniValjak]

That's right baby -- we build our contending teams one SF at a time.

Makes sense though given that they were in Florida to work out the Florida guys. Would feel better though if some of the guys in that 6 team workout included Horford and Noah.

Well according to the Draftexpress podcast we worked out Brewer, Horford, Lewis and some other guy whose name escapes me.

I reckon Petrie might like Lewis as a 2nd rounder (if he can get one) because he can shoot well

I also read somewhere that Jianlian was also in one of the workouts that we held with some other teams.

 

[NewMonkey]

That's right baby -- we build our contending teams one SF at a time.

Makes sense though given that they were in Florida to work out the Florida guys. Would feel better though if some of the guys in that 6 team workout included Horford and Noah.

That isn't even funny any more. Petrie should be fired if he drafts what would be the SIXTH SF/SG on the Kings.

 

[Gary]

Wow.. Thorton is supposedly only 6'6"? whoa... I thought he was 6'8".. Oh well. So much for the SF/PF player I was hoping for. We got another Corliss here

 

[nbrans]

He measured 6'7" in shoes in the draft camp.

 

[Jerichoholic]

In today's NBA I think a distinction needs to be made between "tweener" forwards and "versatile" forwards. From what I've seen from Thorton looks more like a Josh Howard than a Jamison, Odom, or Marian although those comparisons are valid. However he's definitely not a Corliss Williamson who is the definition of "tweener" forward.

That being said we are probably full enough at that position with Garcia and Salmons and especially if Artest is not moved.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He is kind of like Marion in that he's got good length, very good athleticism, good quickness and can play bigger than his size. He's not the rebounder marion is though. He doesn't really have any passing ability so he's kind of a one on one player, he can only really create for himself if that.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That being said we are probably full enough at that position with Garcia and Salmons and especially if Artest is not moved.

At this point, I'd be pretty surprised if Artest isn't moved.

And Petrie has said he likes to draft the best player available (aside from the JWill draft). At the position we draft, it seems likely that Petrie's assessment of BPA will be either Spencer Hawes or a small forward (J. Wright, Green, Thornton, T. Young). Predictable wildcards would probably be Jianlian (if he falls), Splitter, and Law. There's also the patented unpredictable Petrie wildcards, though in the past two drafts Petrie's picks have been pretty mainstream. So I'd figure a SF at 10 is pretty likely.

 

[Gary]

At this point, I'd be pretty surprised if Artest isn't moved.

And Petrie has said he likes to draft the best player available (aside from the JWill draft). At the position we draft, it seems likely that Petrie's assessment of BPA will be either Spencer Hawes or a small forward (J. Wright, Green, Thornton, T. Young). Predictable wildcards would probably be Jianlian (if he falls), Splitter, and Law. There's also the patented unpredictable Petrie wildcards, though in the past two drafts Petrie's picks have been pretty mainstream. So I'd figure a SF at 10 is pretty likely.

There comes a point though when you can have too many of one position, and it can hurt you in the long run. If we had 5 years to fill 5 positions and then draft SFs 5 years in a row than we would kinda suck....

There comes a point in time where you know you have a good lock as a specific position (ahem SF/SG) and just draft best available at another position, or trade... So by all logic Petrie will draft a PG, or trade the pick. Unless a top 4 PF drops to 10 than he will draft the PF.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

There comes a point though when you can have too many of one position, and it can hurt you in the long run. If we had 5 years to fill 5 positions and then draft SFs 5 years in a row than we would kinda suck....

There comes a point in time where you know you have a good lock as a specific position (ahem SF/SG) and just draft best available at another position, or trade... So by all logic Petrie will draft a PG, or trade the pick. Unless a top 4 PF drops to 10 than he will draft the PF.

If we drafted SFs 5 years in a row, then we would be Atlanta. But we haven't. In the last three drafts we've nabbed Martin (not a SF), Garcia (not a SF, but he plays one on TV) and Douby (not a SF). If the feeling around town is correct, Artest may be on the way out. If he is, we've got Salmons (6th man) and Garcia (general purpose backcourt guy with good handles who can play SF when necessary) at the 3 - and that's it. Not exactly a locked position.

And even if Artest stays, is there much doubt that he'll opt out after next season? We're not going to win next season, so even grooming an Artest heir-apparent off the bench for a year isn't such a horrible idea, so long as that guy is the best guy out there to pick.

 

[SacTownKid]

In today's NBA I think a distinction needs to be made between "tweener" forwards and "versatile" forwards. From what I've seen from Thorton looks more like a Josh Howard than a Jamison, Odom, or Marian although those comparisons are valid. However he's definitely not a Corliss Williamson who is the definition of "tweener" forward.

That being said we are probably full enough at that position with Garcia and Salmons and especially if Artest is not moved.

Exactly, except make no mistake, Thornton is a SF/PF. Garcia and Salmons are PG/SG/SF types.

 

[Bricklayer]

Exactly, except make no mistake, Thornton is a SF/PF. Garcia and Salmons are PG/SG/SF types.

Actually, having seen mode of Thornton now I rescuing the tweener tag just because there is no physical way he can play any PF. He's a pure SF. Not that we need that either.