Acy/Outlaw traded to Knicks
- Thread starter HereWeBoogie
- Start date
I gotta think that turning over the roster is a direct result of making moves in an effort to try to win games. When you have a roster of sub 30 win players, you have to jettison the losers and bring in new players. It isn't that simple to revamp an entire roster with the CBA and Salary Cap. But I give PDA credit, he has flushed away the stench of Mis-Magoof-Management, and has restocked the team with different players. Whether that equates to more wins is yet to be determined. BUT we know for SURE what the roster before PDA was capable of. Change for the sake of change is warranted for sub 30 win teams.....
I really think DWill is still our Backup SF and Casspi would be our third string SF
Of course with Dwill playing some PF in summer league play and all the talk of Casspi playing the "stretch 4" position for Houston last year
and then you throw In the "positionless basketball" I suppose either could end up at the 4 position for certain small lineups?
I would just based on players normal position our depth chart at the 3 would be
Gay,Dwill,Casspi
Of course there has been lots of trade rumors that might include Dwill in a trade, but until that happens
I would think he would still be our no 2 guy at the SF position
Dwill will not go to D-league or go International (maybe after next year ender status as 2015 FA)
Of course with Dwill playing some PF in summer league play and all the talk of Casspi playing the "stretch 4" position for Houston last year
and then you throw In the "positionless basketball" I suppose either could end up at the 4 position for certain small lineups?
I would just based on players normal position our depth chart at the 3 would be
Gay,Dwill,Casspi
Of course there has been lots of trade rumors that might include Dwill in a trade, but until that happens
I would think he would still be our no 2 guy at the SF position
Dwill will not go to D-league or go International (maybe after next year ender status as 2015 FA)
I belive this is happy news for Omri Casspi, it means he is now the 2nd or 3rd replacer in the SF position for Rudy Gay, depends on how Both Casspi and D. Williams will function and who will impress more on practices.
I think the trade is pretty much equal for both teams, both traded very mediocre players, I believe Outlaw and Acy will remain bench players on the Knicks just like Ellington and Tyler will probably be bench players on Kings squad.
Ellington can be very efficient of the bench at times, I remember when he was cooperating with Casspi in Cleveland he was pretty much decent player of the bench, although he wasn't really able to contribute and play much for the Cavs.
Tyler is pretty talented though as far as I can recall he has lots of behavior problems, he once played in Maccabi Haifa in the Israeli league and the officials in Maccabi's club were saying he had adaption problems in Haifa and was behaving really childishly and was very immature.
The way I see it, the trade is a decent trade, I reckon this is a win-win trade for both the Knicks and the Kings.
I think the trade is pretty much equal for both teams, both traded very mediocre players, I believe Outlaw and Acy will remain bench players on the Knicks just like Ellington and Tyler will probably be bench players on Kings squad.
Ellington can be very efficient of the bench at times, I remember when he was cooperating with Casspi in Cleveland he was pretty much decent player of the bench, although he wasn't really able to contribute and play much for the Cavs.
Tyler is pretty talented though as far as I can recall he has lots of behavior problems, he once played in Maccabi Haifa in the Israeli league and the officials in Maccabi's club were saying he had adaption problems in Haifa and was behaving really childishly and was very immature.
The way I see it, the trade is a decent trade, I reckon this is a win-win trade for both the Knicks and the Kings.
Ellington is a scrub however. And a one dimensional one. He can shoot, but he basically is miserable at everything else on basketball court. TWill is the opposite. General named position or not, it would be hard to find two guys more opposite, and hence there is likely room and a use for both if we are still making roster moves, which I assume we are.
he's bigger than Jimmer, which is the key that gives him a real position.
Then again he can't dribble/create, so no I'm not really sure he is better than Jimmer. Possibly of slightly more use, and more aware that he sucks so its not like all the chucking guards Petrie wasted his time stacking up: this one will at least mind his role. Nonetheless this is a guy who averaged 3.2pts in 9min of garbagetime last year. Hard to get more scrubby than that.
Then again he can't dribble/create, so no I'm not really sure he is better than Jimmer. Possibly of slightly more use, and more aware that he sucks so its not like all the chucking guards Petrie wasted his time stacking up: this one will at least mind his role. Nonetheless this is a guy who averaged 3.2pts in 9min of garbagetime last year. Hard to get more scrubby than that.
To say they aren't the same is an understatement. They are completely different players.
Williams has about an inch and 20lbs on Ellington. And beyond that he's faster, quicker, stronger etc. Depending on match ups TWill can guard some opposings SFs. I wouldn't ever want to see Ellington in that position. I remember being really surprised at Ellington's vertical measurements at the combine because he never showed any kind of in-game leaping ability at UNC. He's a good catch and shoot role player but he won't give you any more than that. He's got a slight frame, below average quickness, and no real handle to speak of. Williams on the other hand does pretty much everything BUT shoot it well. He's a good defender, ball handler, passer, can attack the rim and is a good rebounder for his size/position.
If you want a shooter on the deep bench who understands his role and limitations, Ellington isn't a bad 5th or 6th guard to have. On the other hand, Terrence Williams is a legit triple double threat whose real weaknesses seem to be behind the scenes/attitude problems. If he ever got his head on right and/or got onto a veteran team with a strong culture he could be dynamite.
Personally I'd rather gamble on Williams. At worst you cut him and get zero production compared to Ellington's projected next to nothing production. But at best you have a really versatile swingman off the bench that can help with team ball movement AND defense.
Williams has about an inch and 20lbs on Ellington. And beyond that he's faster, quicker, stronger etc. Depending on match ups TWill can guard some opposings SFs. I wouldn't ever want to see Ellington in that position. I remember being really surprised at Ellington's vertical measurements at the combine because he never showed any kind of in-game leaping ability at UNC. He's a good catch and shoot role player but he won't give you any more than that. He's got a slight frame, below average quickness, and no real handle to speak of. Williams on the other hand does pretty much everything BUT shoot it well. He's a good defender, ball handler, passer, can attack the rim and is a good rebounder for his size/position.
If you want a shooter on the deep bench who understands his role and limitations, Ellington isn't a bad 5th or 6th guard to have. On the other hand, Terrence Williams is a legit triple double threat whose real weaknesses seem to be behind the scenes/attitude problems. If he ever got his head on right and/or got onto a veteran team with a strong culture he could be dynamite.
Personally I'd rather gamble on Williams. At worst you cut him and get zero production compared to Ellington's projected next to nothing production. But at best you have a really versatile swingman off the bench that can help with team ball movement AND defense.
Off the court concerns aside, TWill would be a much better fit as the potential 5th guard since he's more of a combo guard than Ellington. Talent wise TWill is much better than Ellington, not even close. The only thing keeping TWill off NBA rosters is himself. If he can get it together, he could become an asset. We will need to hedge against Nik and Ben both struggling .....I'd take TWill
I get the distinction you guys are making. Williams is bigger and more versatile. Defender vs. Scorer. We need both. If we have only Ben or Nik going forward, which of toe vets do want to be pinch starters or even more. Referring to Brick's reference to Ellington as a scrub, can't the two be characterized as: Ellington, a scrub who couldn't make on a roster on his strength, offensive capabilities, and Williams, a scrub who couldn't make it on a roster on his strength, defensive capabilities? Semantics, I know, but somewhat accurate, and we sure as hell don't want both of them.
I definitely wouldn't consider Williams a scrub. And I wouldn't say his strength is necessarily defense. He can defend, rebound, handle the ball, pass, and attack the basket. I don't like referring to anyone talented enough to make it to the highest level of his sport as a scrub, but Ellington IS a marginal NBA talent. Williams is not a marginal talent. He's a gifted player. Instead his issue is that he appears to be a head case. That said, if DeMarcus is endorsing him, I say absolutely sign Twill over Ellington.
T-Will, all issues aside is far more talented player than Ellington. Better ball handler, passer, defender, rebounder and can play and guard miltiple positions. Ellington in a one dimentional shooter and undersized at that. If anything, you need someone like T-Will to set up the likes of Ellington and McLemore
Other than a few hints on twitter or instagram, no one knows. There was report that he had a workout lined up with the kings last week.
A couple of days later, T-Will tweeted that #55 is making a comback and a couple of days later he posted a photo of his sun wearing his #55 Kings jersey and how its his son's favourite. Just a few hints and nothing official!
A couple of days later, T-Will tweeted that #55 is making a comback and a couple of days later he posted a photo of his sun wearing his #55 Kings jersey and how its his son's favourite. Just a few hints and nothing official!
Yeah. T-Will is versatile enough to play emergency minutes at PG if need be (though it's certainly not ideal). I definitely remember him running the team as the "PG" with Jimmer as the off-guard his last season with us. If -and this is, of course, a big if- he's got his head on straight, he's a talented jack-of-all-trades guy who would have a role on just about any team in the league.
In his time with us, T-Will's per-36 statistics were absolutely eye-popping (not that his normal stats were all that terrible either): 15.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1.6 spg, .6 bpg.
To put things in perspective, here are Lance Stephenson's numbers per-36 minutes this season:
14.1 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 4.7 apg, .7 spg, .1 bpg.
Now obviously their situations are completely different, with Lance's numbers coming as a 3rd/4th option on a team dominated by Paul George (get well soon, buddy) and Frank Vogel's super disciplined system (until Andrew Bynum had to come in and mess everything up) and T-Will getting his stats courtesy of Keith Smart's system, AKA sheer anarchy, and off the bench.
But the point ultimately is this: T-Will has the talent and the skills (well, maybe not 3-pt shooting) to help this team improve. The team just has to save him from himself (which is easier to do when Michael Malone is your head coach, Tyrone Corbin is your lead assistant, and you have two hall of famers in your front office than it is when the Maloofs are trying to move the team every ten seconds).
In his time with us, T-Will's per-36 statistics were absolutely eye-popping (not that his normal stats were all that terrible either): 15.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1.6 spg, .6 bpg.
To put things in perspective, here are Lance Stephenson's numbers per-36 minutes this season:
14.1 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 4.7 apg, .7 spg, .1 bpg.
Now obviously their situations are completely different, with Lance's numbers coming as a 3rd/4th option on a team dominated by Paul George (get well soon, buddy) and Frank Vogel's super disciplined system (until Andrew Bynum had to come in and mess everything up) and T-Will getting his stats courtesy of Keith Smart's system, AKA sheer anarchy, and off the bench.
But the point ultimately is this: T-Will has the talent and the skills (well, maybe not 3-pt shooting) to help this team improve. The team just has to save him from himself (which is easier to do when Michael Malone is your head coach, Tyrone Corbin is your lead assistant, and you have two hall of famers in your front office than it is when the Maloofs are trying to move the team every ten seconds).
The issue I always will have with T-will is despite his talent, he's never stuck. Why? He hasn't been BAD anywhere he's gone, statistically. But he hasn't even been able to stick in int'l leagues, where he's likely a top 5 talent in that league. Teams put up with a lot of crap from guys because of talent and it sends up huge red flags that teams where he's a vastly superior talent don't want to hold on to him.
Frankly, the only deal that i'd sign him on his a 2 year vet min. with a team option for the 2nd year. Make him prove for 2 seasons that he's serious about being an NBA player. Saves you from the trap of him owning it up next season and then getting burned on a larger deal as a 1 year wonder.
Frankly, the only deal that i'd sign him on his a 2 year vet min. with a team option for the 2nd year. Make him prove for 2 seasons that he's serious about being an NBA player. Saves you from the trap of him owning it up next season and then getting burned on a larger deal as a 1 year wonder.