2013 Draft Prospects
- Thread starter Vlade4GM
- Start date
- Status
Playing against adults Gobert put up something like 9rpg+1spg+3bpg if you extend to Noel's college minutes. In college Gobert would've been allowed to park in the paint so he would get very close to Noel number-wise at very least. With his mobility and jumping ability Noel is superior prospect, but his multiple different leg injuries before he was 18 make you wonder if that athleticism will be there even in 5-6 year. Athleticism tend to shrink, length stays. Anyway you still need #1-2 pick for Noel. Gobert will be there at #6.
Here's my current top 5 wish list, in order.
Noel
Porter
Oladipo
Len
Carter-Williams
I purposely excluded the foreign players, because... It's hard to truly evaluate them right now. If we drafted Karasev, Adetoumbo, Saric, Gobert, etc - I'd be fine with drafting one of them, but at this stage I have a hard time HOPING we draft one.
I want no part of McLemore, Bennett, Burke, or Muhammed.
Noel
Porter
Oladipo
Len
Carter-Williams
I purposely excluded the foreign players, because... It's hard to truly evaluate them right now. If we drafted Karasev, Adetoumbo, Saric, Gobert, etc - I'd be fine with drafting one of them, but at this stage I have a hard time HOPING we draft one.
I want no part of McLemore, Bennett, Burke, or Muhammed.
Last edited:
Why would you want Len? He's basically a clone of DeMarcus who doesn't put his offensive skills to use. Also, why do you want no part of Burke? I see where you're coming from on Bennett, Shabazz, and Mclemore, but Burke is at the top of my wish list. He's got a genius-level BBall IQ and is a willing passer. His height is a disadvantage on defense, but by no means is he a bad defender(other than in the Pick and Roll), he gets steals and forces the opposing team to take bad shots. He's also a good scorer, shooting 46/38/81. So why do you want no part of him?
Combine starts today - had completely forgotten. What a great few days this will be, always love the combine.
On the downside, Schroeder is the only Euro prospect in attendance, he'll probably help his stock here. Would have liked to have seen other Euro prospects but probably wasn't possible for them.
On the downside, Schroeder is the only Euro prospect in attendance, he'll probably help his stock here. Would have liked to have seen other Euro prospects but probably wasn't possible for them.
There is so much to like about Len. He's 19, 255LBS, 7'1 .. all those numbers are great. Plus he is a two year college player, and at 19, that is pretty rare. He made the ACC All Defense team and averaged 2.0 blocks per game. Not huge production offensively, but college big men of his type rarely put up big numbers. I'm not worried about the offense. I don't see him as a DeMarcus clone. And while Len is not the massive shot blocker a guy like Ibaka is, that doesn't mean he can't defend and protect the paint. I see him in the mold of a Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Kendrick Perkins type. Big time space filler who CAN block shots with positioning instead of athleticism.
I think this team needs to figure out a plan long term next to Cousins, and Len could be it. Noel is the best 'shot blocker', but he won't be available. Len is the best fit in our range. He deserves consideration at the least.
And I just don't see it with Trey Burke. Never have. You know who he looks like to me? Isaiah Thomas at Washington. Burke benefits a ton by having a very solid complementary college team, and the fact that he put up great numbers at a great school. Thomas put up similar numbers at Washington, had no supporting cast, and was the 60th pick. This is obviously not a direct match, and it actually proves that I think Burke will be good (because the GM's were wrong on Isaiah, he should have gone in the first round) I think this draft is fairly wide open, meaning the drop off in talent between 2-10 isn't huge. At that point, I go for need over 'BPA' because 'BPA' is a unknown with the talent level being so even.
We have Thomas, Evans, Jimmer, Thornton, and Douglas as our current guard core. (of course Evans or Douglas could leave) but I am confortable with some pieces of that core. Needless to say, we don't really need to add a 30mpg rookie into that mix. And that is what Burke should be. He should go to a team and play. Personally, I'd like to see us ship off Thomas or Thornton (too similar) ... but again, I certainly don't want to add to that group without subtracting.
To conclude, I believe we need a long term solution at a starting big man spot and at the 3. This is why I want Noel, Porter, Oladipo, and Len the most. They fit my criteria the best.
Carter-Williams is number 5, as he is my favorite PG prospect in this draft.
I think this team needs to figure out a plan long term next to Cousins, and Len could be it. Noel is the best 'shot blocker', but he won't be available. Len is the best fit in our range. He deserves consideration at the least.
And I just don't see it with Trey Burke. Never have. You know who he looks like to me? Isaiah Thomas at Washington. Burke benefits a ton by having a very solid complementary college team, and the fact that he put up great numbers at a great school. Thomas put up similar numbers at Washington, had no supporting cast, and was the 60th pick. This is obviously not a direct match, and it actually proves that I think Burke will be good (because the GM's were wrong on Isaiah, he should have gone in the first round) I think this draft is fairly wide open, meaning the drop off in talent between 2-10 isn't huge. At that point, I go for need over 'BPA' because 'BPA' is a unknown with the talent level being so even.
We have Thomas, Evans, Jimmer, Thornton, and Douglas as our current guard core. (of course Evans or Douglas could leave) but I am confortable with some pieces of that core. Needless to say, we don't really need to add a 30mpg rookie into that mix. And that is what Burke should be. He should go to a team and play. Personally, I'd like to see us ship off Thomas or Thornton (too similar) ... but again, I certainly don't want to add to that group without subtracting.
To conclude, I believe we need a long term solution at a starting big man spot and at the 3. This is why I want Noel, Porter, Oladipo, and Len the most. They fit my criteria the best.
Carter-Williams is number 5, as he is my favorite PG prospect in this draft.
You can watch some of the early interviews from the combine on NBA.com. So far they have McLemore, Zeller, Mohammed, Porter, Oladipo, Burke, Schroeder, and Dieng.
Only a couple are on youtube from what I can see so I won't bother posting them here. Personally, I thought Oladipo's interview was the best. Schroeder, Dieng and Burke also came across well. McLemore and Porter were both "meh" AFAIC, neither seem to have much confidence speaking and seemed to be rehearsed (nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I'd prefer some spontaneity). Mohammed doesn't seem very bright and did nothing to change my mind about him. I didn't even watch Zellers.
Some other observations - Mohammed looks about two inches taller than both Oladipo and McLemore, who appear to be roughly the same size. I don't think there'll be a big difference between Mohammed and Porter at the measurements. Oladipo has the personality and attitude of a star, he's confident and a born leader. I'm not sure he has the skills to be one, but he'll certainly help a team out a lot, especially considering he's one of the best defenders I've ever seen at college level, and that's not an exaggeration. His lateral quickness is unbelievable, and he has the length, strength, speed and jumping ability to accompany it. He's an elite athlete, and that will be true of him in the NBA, you can quote me on that. I'd be so tempted to take him and out 'Reke back at PG, just to have a beastly defensive backcourt. And Oladipo isn't a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Wade isn't a bad comparison - not as good offensively but a better defender.
Just some observations - more in depth interviews will be taking place over the next few days with much more prospects. I wish McLemore was more confident, he doesn't seem to have the personality of a star despite his undeniable talent. Maybe it will come with time.
EDIT: Just found this Oladipo workout video after making that post:
Having watched it, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his offensive talent had been hidden at Indiana. He could easily turn out to be a top 3 player from the draft. I think people aren't doing him justice with the Tony Allen comparisons (although defensively that's obviously a huge compliment, it's still one I think he can exceed).
Only a couple are on youtube from what I can see so I won't bother posting them here. Personally, I thought Oladipo's interview was the best. Schroeder, Dieng and Burke also came across well. McLemore and Porter were both "meh" AFAIC, neither seem to have much confidence speaking and seemed to be rehearsed (nothing necessarily wrong with that, but I'd prefer some spontaneity). Mohammed doesn't seem very bright and did nothing to change my mind about him. I didn't even watch Zellers.
Some other observations - Mohammed looks about two inches taller than both Oladipo and McLemore, who appear to be roughly the same size. I don't think there'll be a big difference between Mohammed and Porter at the measurements. Oladipo has the personality and attitude of a star, he's confident and a born leader. I'm not sure he has the skills to be one, but he'll certainly help a team out a lot, especially considering he's one of the best defenders I've ever seen at college level, and that's not an exaggeration. His lateral quickness is unbelievable, and he has the length, strength, speed and jumping ability to accompany it. He's an elite athlete, and that will be true of him in the NBA, you can quote me on that. I'd be so tempted to take him and out 'Reke back at PG, just to have a beastly defensive backcourt. And Oladipo isn't a guy that needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Wade isn't a bad comparison - not as good offensively but a better defender.
Just some observations - more in depth interviews will be taking place over the next few days with much more prospects. I wish McLemore was more confident, he doesn't seem to have the personality of a star despite his undeniable talent. Maybe it will come with time.
EDIT: Just found this Oladipo workout video after making that post:
Having watched it, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his offensive talent had been hidden at Indiana. He could easily turn out to be a top 3 player from the draft. I think people aren't doing him justice with the Tony Allen comparisons (although defensively that's obviously a huge compliment, it's still one I think he can exceed).
Last edited by a moderator:
Baja will be happy to hear this:
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 40m
Bucknell's Mike Muscala says he is only scheduled to interview w/two teams: Sacramento and Atlanta. Says he will do "9 or 10" workouts after.
Like Baja, I'd be thrilled to get Muscala in the 2nd. Guys with his size, productivity (on both sides of the ball) etc aren't often available in the 2nd round. He may move up the boards after workouts.
Some other tweets re combine:
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 1h
Otto Porter has interviewed with Charlotte, Phoenix and OKC. Says he looks at Cleveland, Phoenix and Orlando as being the best fit.
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 56m
Cody Zeller says he interviewed with Toronto, Portland, Houston and Boston. Denies wingspan is 6-8. Says closer to 6-11.
Per Givony:
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 2h
No one can score on Rudy Gobert inside the paint. Block, deflections, steals. Changing everything around the rim. #nbacombine
That's very encouraging! Now he's starting to sound attractive to me. That sort of impact is exactly what's needed next to Big Cuz.
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 40m
Bucknell's Mike Muscala says he is only scheduled to interview w/two teams: Sacramento and Atlanta. Says he will do "9 or 10" workouts after.
Like Baja, I'd be thrilled to get Muscala in the 2nd. Guys with his size, productivity (on both sides of the ball) etc aren't often available in the 2nd round. He may move up the boards after workouts.
Some other tweets re combine:
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 1h
Otto Porter has interviewed with Charlotte, Phoenix and OKC. Says he looks at Cleveland, Phoenix and Orlando as being the best fit.
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 56m
Cody Zeller says he interviewed with Toronto, Portland, Houston and Boston. Denies wingspan is 6-8. Says closer to 6-11.
Per Givony:
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 2h
No one can score on Rudy Gobert inside the paint. Block, deflections, steals. Changing everything around the rim. #nbacombine
That's very encouraging! Now he's starting to sound attractive to me. That sort of impact is exactly what's needed next to Big Cuz.
Last edited:
I would agree with this assessment for the most part, but I think Boogie is trending towards being a power forward. He's been slimming down ever since his rookie season. He's almost there.
These are some easy comparisons to make, but Len/Cousins could be a Lee/Bogut - Gasol/Randolph - Love/Pekovic - Aldridge/Leonard ... I can see Len being as mobile, if not more than Gasol/Bogut/Pekovic/Leonard, and on the flip side, I can see Cousins being as mobile if not more then Lee, Randolph, Love, or Aldridge.
Now, if Gobert or Adams come in and prove they are worth consideration for a top 10 pick, then you won't see me complaining. I like Gobert more than Adams, and if he's our pick I can certainly see why, but I think Len should be in the mix.
These are some easy comparisons to make, but Len/Cousins could be a Lee/Bogut - Gasol/Randolph - Love/Pekovic - Aldridge/Leonard ... I can see Len being as mobile, if not more than Gasol/Bogut/Pekovic/Leonard, and on the flip side, I can see Cousins being as mobile if not more then Lee, Randolph, Love, or Aldridge.
Now, if Gobert or Adams come in and prove they are worth consideration for a top 10 pick, then you won't see me complaining. I like Gobert more than Adams, and if he's our pick I can certainly see why, but I think Len should be in the mix.
Last edited:
1. Thing is you can't do anything with Len but interview him due to his injury.
2. Looks like Porter is certain he's going top-5.
3. Tweet about Zeller's wingspan: would be interesting what Combine measurements show.
4. Seems like Gobert is confident as he decided to play though this sort of environment suits him a lot: guys drive to the rim one by one without much cooperation with inside players and there's no good powerful inside players.
2. Looks like Porter is certain he's going top-5.
3. Tweet about Zeller's wingspan: would be interesting what Combine measurements show.
4. Seems like Gobert is confident as he decided to play though this sort of environment suits him a lot: guys drive to the rim one by one without much cooperation with inside players and there's no good powerful inside players.
Guys I like
Noel
Porter
Burke
Gobert
Oladipo
Franklin
KCP
Dieng
Wolters
Guys I dislike
Shabazz
Bennett
Saric
Olynyk
Zeller
Sceptical
Mclemore
Len
Plumlee
Carter-Williams
Shroeder
Whithey
Giannis
C.J. Leslie
Could be steals
Tony Mitchell
Larkin
Rice Jr.
McCollum
DeShaun Thomas
Bullock
Muscala
Noel
Porter
Burke
Gobert
Oladipo
Franklin
KCP
Dieng
Wolters
Guys I dislike
Shabazz
Bennett
Saric
Olynyk
Zeller
Sceptical
Mclemore
Len
Plumlee
Carter-Williams
Shroeder
Whithey
Giannis
C.J. Leslie
Could be steals
Tony Mitchell
Larkin
Rice Jr.
McCollum
DeShaun Thomas
Bullock
Muscala
Last edited:
Yeah, I think Len is futher alone than Adams at this point, but I could live with either of them. Any way you cut it, we need size upfront, or help at SF. As much as I like Burke, I don't see a drastic need there, but wouldn't complain if we drafted him. I'd rather go after experience at the PG position if we go there at all.
Happy to hear about Muscala. Very under the radar player by most people outside of the NBA. Very skilled, good rebounder, can play inside or outside. Good passer, and decent to good defender that can block some shots. He's a long 6'11" player with good BBIQ. He would be an excellent 2nd round pick. As would be Nate Wolters, who is a very tough and skilled PG at 6'4", who could play some SG if needed.
Happy to hear about Muscala. Very under the radar player by most people outside of the NBA. Very skilled, good rebounder, can play inside or outside. Good passer, and decent to good defender that can block some shots. He's a long 6'11" player with good BBIQ. He would be an excellent 2nd round pick. As would be Nate Wolters, who is a very tough and skilled PG at 6'4", who could play some SG if needed.
Last edited:
In Len's case, I think most scouting dept's already know what they need to know about his abilities on the court. Only questions left are his actual size, etc. It would be nice to know his vertical, but I don't really think it will affect anyone's decision one way or the other. He was the best player on the Maryland team, without being the number one, or number two, or number three option. They seldom ran plays through him despite his being the most efficent player offensively on the team. He's hardly a finished product, but he has all the makings of one, and a good one.
I agree that he might not fit into our current scheme, but If I had to choose between what we currently have at backup center, and Len, I'll take Len.
I agree that he might not fit into our current scheme, but If I had to choose between what we currently have at backup center, and Len, I'll take Len.
He was the second best player on the team behind Fredette. They worked well together, but of couse when he got injured, it damaged BYU's chances of going anywhere in the tourney. It would have been interesting to see how Davies would have fared in a bigger conference on a school like Michigan with a bigger supporting cast. Really hard to say how he'll translate to the NBA. I do think he's worthy of being picked in the second round, but there are others that I would personally choose before him.
Something interesting you all may want to hear:
Steven Adams nailed the combine. Not only did he dominate athletics, he was nailing mid range shots, of the dribble, off the pass, off the bounce, you name it. His coach, before the combine, stated "He'll surprise you with his range". If he has an offensive game to go with that athleticism and rebounding, then I think he may be worth a look.
Steven Adams nailed the combine. Not only did he dominate athletics, he was nailing mid range shots, of the dribble, off the pass, off the bounce, you name it. His coach, before the combine, stated "He'll surprise you with his range". If he has an offensive game to go with that athleticism and rebounding, then I think he may be worth a look.
Sounds like Gobert really impressed today, and check out his official measurements(!):
Gery Woelfel @GeryWoelfel
Speaking of big men: Rudy Gobert was measured at 7-1 1/2 WITHOUT shoes. Has 7-8 1/2 wing span.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-1-measurements-highlights-and-top-prospects
Players Who Stood Out
Gobert on the Rise?
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
No one can score on Rudy Gobert inside the paint. Block, deflections, steals. Changing everything around the rim. #nbacombine
Jerry Lai-USA TODAY Sports
Gobert's huge wingspan was apparent, and it helped him shine during defensive drills.
The 7'1" Frenchman is an exceptionally good athlete who also looked decent shooting the ball as well. If you're looking for the player who helped himself the most on Thursday, it might be Gobert.
Savas Birdal @sannti
For what it's worth, I think Rudy Gobert is the French JaVale McGee. Good prospect to have as long as you don't pay him $44M.
Gery Woelfel @GeryWoelfel
Speaking of big men: Rudy Gobert was measured at 7-1 1/2 WITHOUT shoes. Has 7-8 1/2 wing span.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...y-1-measurements-highlights-and-top-prospects
Players Who Stood Out
Gobert on the Rise?
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
No one can score on Rudy Gobert inside the paint. Block, deflections, steals. Changing everything around the rim. #nbacombine
Jerry Lai-USA TODAY Sports
Gobert's huge wingspan was apparent, and it helped him shine during defensive drills.
The 7'1" Frenchman is an exceptionally good athlete who also looked decent shooting the ball as well. If you're looking for the player who helped himself the most on Thursday, it might be Gobert.
Savas Birdal @sannti
For what it's worth, I think Rudy Gobert is the French JaVale McGee. Good prospect to have as long as you don't pay him $44M.
I read some of this on Twitter. From DraftExpress I believe. Also read some things from a scout that said his shot looked vastly improved. Same scout said Gobert was extremely raw offensively, or that he simply had little of no offensive game, and that in his current physical condition, he'd get pushed all over the floor in the NBA. Doesn't mean you don't draft him. Just means you draft him with the knowledge that he's not going to contribute right away. He suggested that he'd be best served by playing another year in europe.
With Adams, you're getting a player thats physcially ready to play in the NBA, but is still raw in some areas. I think both Adams and Gobert would spend time in the D-League. It would probably be safer to go with someone like Dieng, but its highly probable that both Adams and Gobert will someday be better than Dieng. Isn't this fun?
With Adams, you're getting a player thats physcially ready to play in the NBA, but is still raw in some areas. I think both Adams and Gobert would spend time in the D-League. It would probably be safer to go with someone like Dieng, but its highly probable that both Adams and Gobert will someday be better than Dieng. Isn't this fun?
Thing is Dieng is already 23 and not stronger than either, and less mobile. He's pretty skilled though, so he might get decent amount of PT right from the start but 16 and 25mpg in first couple of seasons might be all that's available in Kings pretty crowded and even in their mediocrity frontcourt. Both Adams and Gobert should be able to handle that sort of minutes. On another note seems like Adams is already pretty heavy without much body fat and he doesn't look like Chuck Hayes. Feels like he might get into 270, maybe 280 territory by simply maturing and without athleticism lost.
- Status