Tyreke is NOT happy
- Thread starter kingjatt
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The issue is Tyreke's play. It's one dimensional and hasn't improved. That is why there is an issue. If he could shoot or play within an offense better then he would not be in this situation. The scapegoating of coaches and other players is just a dumb, chaotic layering of excuses for a player that creates the problematic scenarios he finds himself in.
Thank you, So I ask those who responded to my comment what is the best way to use Evans? The kid was basically handed the keys to the franchise and allowed to run the point. Of course i'm not blaming the teams poor play directly on his shoulders but I don't feel he should say the team has "Marginalized" him give me a break.
They will probably end up putting Evans at SG as long as we get a SF that can shoot 3s. I would love to try to pry Jordan Hamilton from Denver (I doubt they would give him up) then draft Kendall Marshall. Have IT, and MT off the bench and use our second round pick to draft Fab Melo. Right there we have addressed defense, a big that can block shots, a SF that can shoot the lights out if given the chance and we move the sparkplugs to the bench. We could also try to sign Steve Novak as another 3pt threat off the bench but I am not sure how he would work with MT/IT but he could always camp and spot shoot..
I don't actually feel like you deserve much of a break. How about you tell me how he HASN'T been marginalized at this point? He's playing out of position, his minutes, touches, shots, usage are all shot to hell and he's often an afterthought at best. Do you not know what "marginalize" means?
And of course, late to the party as you are, you probably missed the fun I had demonstrating that we have gotten WORSE the more we marginalize him.
Another fun stat to demonstrate our stupiditity, not to mention that of a certain segment of fans:
Evans stats in wins:
18wins 36.2min 20.2pts on 15.9FGA and 6.2FTA
Evans stats in losses:
43loss 33.5min 14.8pts on 13.7FGA and 3.3FTA
But by all means, let's take that player and take the ball out of his hands and put him in the corner. Maybe have Franciso Garcia or John Salmons eat up his minutes too. If a Smart coach wanted to win that's what he would do.
After a ****ing lobotomy.
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Evans is a SG! Has been, always will be. Thornton is a SG. He can score from perimeter, from mid-range and driving. Evans can drive to basket better but doesn't have perimeter or mid-range shot yet. When he has those shots that teams respect, like Thornton, the middle opens and the Kings win a bunch more games and get to the next level. Evans is not a PG.
Neither is LeBron. He takes 2.5 more shots, but scores the same number of points. In losses LeBron shoots .496, but in wins he shoots .547.
I suspect quite strongly that if you were to look at any player whose contributions are important to their team, that you'd find that they score either more, or more efficiently, or both in wins than they do in losses. The direction of causation, however, is not some bizarre "he doesn't play well in losses". It's rather "when he doesn't play well, they are more likely to lose". This is completely sensible and the idea that it should be a knock on a player is strange to say the least.
I suspect quite strongly that if you were to look at any player whose contributions are important to their team, that you'd find that they score either more, or more efficiently, or both in wins than they do in losses. The direction of causation, however, is not some bizarre "he doesn't play well in losses". It's rather "when he doesn't play well, they are more likely to lose". This is completely sensible and the idea that it should be a knock on a player is strange to say the least.
I am well aware that when star players don't play well then their teams don't win. That isn't new. What was being suggested is that the reason the Kings were losing is because their star player was being marginalized. I just don't think those stats show that. They show that he had a couple less shots and a couple less minutes but the main difference was that he didn't hit shots efficiently. That is on him.
I hope having Reke off the ball is a subtle tanking manuever and that he'll be put back at PG next season.
Most frustrating thing is that Reke seemed to be improving RAPIDLY at running the team when Smart was working with him at PG.
Why we changed that (with obvious results in the W/L) is beyond me.
I mean really, we're putting a potential multi-allstar on the backburner for a pointless IT for ROTY campaign. Only the Magoofs are that short sighted and dumb as hell. GP is obviously nothing more than a complacent, lazy, yes-man at this point to allow this nonsense to go on.
Most frustrating thing is that Reke seemed to be improving RAPIDLY at running the team when Smart was working with him at PG.
Why we changed that (with obvious results in the W/L) is beyond me.
I mean really, we're putting a potential multi-allstar on the backburner for a pointless IT for ROTY campaign. Only the Magoofs are that short sighted and dumb as hell. GP is obviously nothing more than a complacent, lazy, yes-man at this point to allow this nonsense to go on.
Is that really on him? Let's see. What is Tyreke best at? 1) Driving to the rim in traffic and finishing. 2) Driving to the rim in traffic and kicking out. Both of these require him having the ball in his hands. What is Tyreke not really so good at? 1) Jump shots. 2) Moving without the ball. What has the coaching staff done by making Tyreke the SF? Put him on the perimeter, taking the ball out of his hands for the most part and putting him in the position of being a jump-shooter, a part of his game he's not confident in (at least not yet) or moving without the ball, where he also needs improvement.
So I can see how that's on Tyreke, sure. Oh wait, I can't.
Does Tyreke need to work on other aspects of his game? Absolutely. But he's still young and has a pretty big window for improvement. If he can add solid jumpshooting and moving without the ball to his repertoire, he'll be huge. But asking him to do things he's not good at at the expense of things he is good at, and then pointing out that he's not as successful when you do this is pretty much the definition of setting him up to fail.
So I can see how that's on Tyreke, sure. Oh wait, I can't.
Does Tyreke need to work on other aspects of his game? Absolutely. But he's still young and has a pretty big window for improvement. If he can add solid jumpshooting and moving without the ball to his repertoire, he'll be huge. But asking him to do things he's not good at at the expense of things he is good at, and then pointing out that he's not as successful when you do this is pretty much the definition of setting him up to fail.
You take any star player. Any of them. You take the ball out of their hands, let them shoot one shot here, one shot there. Make those shots come where you want them to come rather than where they are comfortable, and the production plummets.
You take that same player, give them the ball and let them go to work and its a whole other story. We can call that Melo/LeBron syndrome. But its any star player syndrome. Including Reke's.
As an aside, Reke's shooting% gap is mild in wins/losses. .462 to .441 I think it was. That's nothing on the scale of such things. As mentioned with LeBron its 50 points. On the Kings Boogie is the guy with the big % gap betwen wins/losses -- 55 points I think it was, from .428 to .483. Reke and Thronton are the guy who actually make us win with more shots and all around production. IT is the other big shooting percentage gap guy, from .428 to,488, although we have won more when he played fewer minutes -- the explanation on that point being fairly obviosu since we woin more when he was our 6th man than the starter.
You take that same player, give them the ball and let them go to work and its a whole other story. We can call that Melo/LeBron syndrome. But its any star player syndrome. Including Reke's.
As an aside, Reke's shooting% gap is mild in wins/losses. .462 to .441 I think it was. That's nothing on the scale of such things. As mentioned with LeBron its 50 points. On the Kings Boogie is the guy with the big % gap betwen wins/losses -- 55 points I think it was, from .428 to .483. Reke and Thronton are the guy who actually make us win with more shots and all around production. IT is the other big shooting percentage gap guy, from .428 to,488, although we have won more when he played fewer minutes -- the explanation on that point being fairly obviosu since we woin more when he was our 6th man than the starter.
Evans may still be listed at PG but he hasn't played PG regularly in almost 2 months. His A/TO ratio would rank third amongst SFs this year. He was at 1.93 his rookie season. I think an extra .5 TO per game is a fair trade off for also being your team's leading scorer and taking every last second shot. In his last month at PG he was back up at 1.96 for February of this season. He was bad last season, no one is arguing that point. Whether you think the 1.7 number is a more accurate description of Evans' performance or not depends on how big of a role you think injuries have played in his overall inconsistency.
But more to the point, this is the same "Tyreke is not a PG" argument we've been having for three years. Take a look at that list of league-leaders in A/TO ratio. Pass-first PGs (Paul, Rondo, Nash) are in the 3+ range. League average PGs and more scoring oriented guards (Miller, Rose, Jennings) are in the 2.5 range. Guys who facilitate the offense while leading their team in scoring (Wall, Ellis, Irving) are in the 2 range. Isn't this consistent with what we expect from Tyreke and Isaiah as players? The argument for Thomas over Tyreke is really just the same old argument that the team can't win without a pass-first PG or at least a more traditional NBA PG.
Tyreke needs to improve on his efficiency, but everything else he brings to the table as a lead guard makes him worth the investment I think. I don't know who the best backcourt partner for him would be and I don't much care if someone wants to call him a SG or not. What I do know is that having him play primarily off the ball is marginalizing his impact on the game. He's far too talented to be relegated to an after-thought in the offense.
But more to the point, this is the same "Tyreke is not a PG" argument we've been having for three years. Take a look at that list of league-leaders in A/TO ratio. Pass-first PGs (Paul, Rondo, Nash) are in the 3+ range. League average PGs and more scoring oriented guards (Miller, Rose, Jennings) are in the 2.5 range. Guys who facilitate the offense while leading their team in scoring (Wall, Ellis, Irving) are in the 2 range. Isn't this consistent with what we expect from Tyreke and Isaiah as players? The argument for Thomas over Tyreke is really just the same old argument that the team can't win without a pass-first PG or at least a more traditional NBA PG.
Tyreke needs to improve on his efficiency, but everything else he brings to the table as a lead guard makes him worth the investment I think. I don't know who the best backcourt partner for him would be and I don't much care if someone wants to call him a SG or not. What I do know is that having him play primarily off the ball is marginalizing his impact on the game. He's far too talented to be relegated to an after-thought in the offense.
Pretty weak statistical backing. 3 less minutes and 2 less shots a game doesn't mean a whole lot in an argument of Reke being "marginalized. And you just critizised someone from using stats before and after his position change when you just did the same thing. If anything, it shows that when Reke is attacking the rim and getting to the line is when he's and we're at our best.
It goes back to the same argument of needing a jumpshot. Every single elite offguard we bring up (Kobe, Wade, Manu, etc) all can hit a 3 and have elite mid-range games. Since Reke can't do that, he gets lost in the offense at the 2-3 since his only offense is getting to the rim.
It goes back to the same argument of needing a jumpshot. Every single elite offguard we bring up (Kobe, Wade, Manu, etc) all can hit a 3 and have elite mid-range games. Since Reke can't do that, he gets lost in the offense at the 2-3 since his only offense is getting to the rim.
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