Would you....
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well sure, but so will anyone else we get, so I figured might as well start with somebody really good + tall.
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piksi
Hall of Famer
Sure, but so will anyone else we get, so might as well start with somebody really good + tall.
who is any good because our crappy layers have shown remarkable health
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Pretty big risk. It could be another major setback in rebuilding if they don't win within the 1-3 years that team would be a contender.
I would have to say no. But I am sure deals like that or for a guy like Jermaine O'neal will be considered.
I would have to say no. But I am sure deals like that or for a guy like Jermaine O'neal will be considered.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I have heard enough things about KG and his personality to know that he isn't as squeaky clean as you think.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If KG was brought in I think Artest would do all he could to not blow up.
I think people are underestimating a team of Artest/Bibby/KG. If it works it's not even a question of being a contender. No way no how. That is probably the deadliest threesome in the league, easy.
I hate to answer a question with a question, but when has he shown leadership? He "carried" his team to a series of first round defeats. I suppose that makes Pau Gasol a leader as well. Garnett is all pomp and circumstance. He yells a lot, stares a lot, tries to look mean, and blocks shots after the whistle. I guess that proves his intensity, but not leadership. Understand that we are talking about a man who has been a perennial MVP candidate for the past 8 years, and won one. He is also, allegedly, still in his prime. Yet his team has been mired in the lottery for the past three years. I don't care how tough the West is or how inept his GM, MVPs in their prime do not spend three straight years in the lottery. If he was a true leader then there is no way, no way, that his team would have been beat out for the #8 spot by the mess of a team we had last year.
You'll reply that he's worn out, coasting perhaps, waiting for his team to surround him with talent. Then he's not a leader. Garnett has not won a championship for the same reason Barkley never did, he's not a true leader, and he doesn't want it enough. He doesn't put in enough work in the weight room, as he still has the upper body of a nineteen year old boy. I suspect his base is weak as well, but we'll never know with the petal pushers he calls shorts. It kills me that show-offs like Garnett and Noah are lauded for their leadership, while men who quietly make the plays that decide games, such as Oden or Jeff Green, are diminished for their "lack of intensity".
Like another poster said, I don't see why Garnett-Artest-Bibby will work where Garnett-Sprewell-Cassell failed. It's essentially the same triumvirate, only Garnett is older, Artest less offensively talented, and Bibby half the man that Cassell is.
Wow. And all this time I'd thought Barkley didn't have a ring because Jordan's Bulls were hogging them all.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
Garnett is still Garnett...aka the best power forward in the league. If artest can keep himself together, he's better then Sprewell was. As for Bibby vs. Sam-I-Am...what are you talking about?
Jerryaki
Starter
do you suppose that, instead of scrubs, microfracture doctors walk around sporting kings jerseys??
i wouldn't do this scenario of trades, without first considering a coaching change. no way musselman can do anything with a KG on the roster except pee him off.
Apparently, just the idea of him being a King is enough to have him turn up lame:
Garnett out indefinitely with injured right calf
keep in mind... KG keeps the crazies in check!
this would be great depending on the draft pick and if we could somehow do it without losing Martin
Gary
All-Star
Miller isn't really that bad of a contract. Given the right situation Miller will be well worth the money being paid. I actually would love him on the Kings if paired with a defensive minded PF, or move Miller to PF, and get a defensive minded center.
Imagen if we got Oden, and put him with Miller. We would go from a crappy front court to a great one, because Miller would go from being exploited nightly because of lack of big man help, to a out-top/post/passing big man...
Imagen if we got Oden, and put him with Miller. We would go from a crappy front court to a great one, because Miller would go from being exploited nightly because of lack of big man help, to a out-top/post/passing big man...
What if the Kings offered something like this?
Kings deal:
Brad Miller
Kenny Thomas
John Salmons
2007 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
2009 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
2011 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
Wolves deal:
Kevin Garnett
Think they'd bite on that? 3 1st round picks with only top 3 protection.
Then trade Shareef for Etan/Haywood
Re-sign Price/Williams/Williamson
Use MLE and LLE to fill out roster needs, Joe Smith for the LLE?
Kings roster:
C: Etan Thomas, Justin Williams
PF: Kevin Garnett, Joe Smith, Corliss Williamson
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price
Kings deal:
Brad Miller
Kenny Thomas
John Salmons
2007 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
2009 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
2011 1st round pick (top 3 protection)
Wolves deal:
Kevin Garnett
Think they'd bite on that? 3 1st round picks with only top 3 protection.
Then trade Shareef for Etan/Haywood
Re-sign Price/Williams/Williamson
Use MLE and LLE to fill out roster needs, Joe Smith for the LLE?
Kings roster:
C: Etan Thomas, Justin Williams
PF: Kevin Garnett, Joe Smith, Corliss Williamson
SF: Ron Artest, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, Quincy Douby
PG: Mike Bibby, Ronnie Price
Usually takes 2-3 stars bare minimum to win it all, how many other stars have been on his teams?
Nope - giving away picks with the condition this team is in is not the way to improve. Giving away too much future for the "now", IMHO.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
Yes I have. Duncan might be better than KG in the same way that Bill Russel was better than Wilt Chamberlain, but statistically, Duncan only beats KG in blocks per game and FG%, and KG is better everywhere else. Dirk is a better shooter/scorer, but shooting and scoring does not a power-forward make. KG is a much better rebounder, defender, passer, etc...In fact, KG is averaging twice as many blocks and steals per game as Dirk.
Agreed. Can't give away three first rounders for a guy who will be on his way down before we even give away all the picks. Not in the NBA.
Löwenherz
Starter
I'll name them.
Stephon Marbury, Tom Gugliotta, Terrell Brandon, Joe Smith, Latrell Sprewell, Sam Cassell, Wally Szczerbiak, Ricky Davis.
Not impressed with that list of Quasars? Neither am I.
Some of them aren't even quasars, they're black holes.
I'm sick of this argument. What about the converse? Who has KG made better? If he is so great why doesn't he elevate the games of those around him? He gets stats, wonderful. How many rings? Heck, how many playoff series victories?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Been a number of guys who have never been better than when they were paired with KG -- Cassel, Googs, Rasho, Hudson, Hassel etc. etc. He's never had a guy who was even close to a #2 on an elite team. Spree might have been when he was young, but a) he wasn't young by the time he played wiht KG; and b) the Wolves WERE elite when he showed up there. And Marbury had the talent, but has obviously been a career loser.
Googs was already a star when KG got there. Cassell was already a star, and basically maintained that in Minnesota. In fact, playing with a real post-oriented stud, Cassell won championships. Which brings up a good question: who was Olajuwon's elite #2? You're throwing out Rasho, Hudson, and Hassell to get me to say they are not star level and inadvertently proving your point. I see you working your lawyer voodoo. But my point is not that he hasn't won a championship. As others have stated, many greats never achieved that goal. My point is that he has not gotten out of the first round but once. He has certainly had the talent around him for that, if he is actually the leader and MVP that so many claim. The great leader allowed that same WCF team to collapse the next year. Moreover, an MVP in his prime has missed the playoffs for the past three years. That is inexcusable. I am not interested in another half-arsed attempt at contention that centers around three feckless leaders in KG, Artest, and Bibby. I'd much rather start a rebuild around high-character guys like Martin, Garcia, and a draft pick, possibly keeping Miller as a mentor.
Löwenherz
Starter
Googs is, at best, a third option scorer for a decent team. He was a "star" in Minny when KG got there because the T-Wolves sucked that badly.
Perhaps that's merely conjecture on my part -- but he was merely above-average for the Bullets, was traded twice his third year in the league, and spent the last six years in the NBA as a roll player averaging less than 10 ppg.
The only two years he averaged more than 20 ppg, he did it playing along side KG.
Cassell was little more than a talented journeyman before joining the T-Wolves (his sixth team), and to a degree still is. He established himself a little in Milwaukee, but never really made the Bucks relevent.
And he won 2 championships with a "real post-oriented stud" his first two seasons in the league as an offensive spark plug off the bench -- averaging less than 10 points both years.
For the second championship, Hall of Famer Clyde Drexler, who basically rescued the struggling defending champions when he was brought over in a mid-season trade.
But you're right, the first year Olajuwon did it mostly by himself ... and carried Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Kenny Smith and Mario Elie.
Or maybe depth can be considered an elite #2 as well.
A lot is made about the 7 straight first round losses. But the T-wolves were huge, huge underdogs in every single one of them.
KG's first year in the playoffs the T-Wolves lost to the Rockets with Olajuwon, Drexler and Barkley on the team.
His second year they lost to Gary Payton, Vin Baker (when he was still All-Star caliber) and Detlef Schrempf during the Sonics' third straight Pac Div Championship -- pushing them to the full 5 games.
His other opponents? Tim Duncan, David Robinson and the Spurs (twice) The Trailblazers during their run to the WCF. Dallas and the Big Three. And Kobe and Shaq's Lakers.
You may think he had the talent around him to upset at least one of those teams, but that just may be an unreconcilable disagreement between us, which is fine.
I don't think he's been an MVP candidate since 2004. And during those past three years no one could look at the T-wolves roster and say "yeah, they're going to the playoff".
Substitute KG with any one star in the league onto the T-wolves roster and tell me they would carry that team to the playoffs.
That's not sarcasm, I'm actually curious who we might come up with.
And on this, we are in complete and utter agreement -- on most of your points.
The last thing I want is another "win now" situation with a window that closes in two years -- when the draft won't be as rich and we will have missed out on next year's talented FA crop.
But I don't understand your characterization of Garnett. Is it because of the alleged assualt charges when he was in High School -- because I saw Behind the Glory too.
Or is it just his on-court, in your face, power game persona, mixed with futility in the playoffs that you assume he's a thug?
Most Minny fans seem to have great things to say about his character and community involvement as well as passion for the game. Maybe I'm just not privy to the same info as you.
The irony is, you don't want KG as a mentor, but you do want Miller. Why, cause he's a good ole boy?
The last thing I want is an overpriced, soft center who also has never won anything mentoring the next generation of our team.
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