Would you take trade Thompson to ditch Udrih and Thomas and get Amare?

[KevinSalvadori]

Just listened to a Scott Howard-Cooper interview from a few weeks ago, and the one thing that jumps out at me, and the one thing that makes me interested in this, is the fact that he mentioned we may still be interested in Amare this summer. Now, while it is likely never going to happen, would there be interest in THIS team next year:

Draft Rubio with #1/2
Trade J. Thompson, K. Thomas, B. Udrih, future 1st (2010) to PHX for Stoudamire and PG Dragic.

WHY PHOENIX DOES IT: Thomas adds to the exorbitant cap space they free up next summer, with Thompson providing a cheap, versatile PF option on a line short of depth and versatility. Udrih provides a bridge at PG once Nash becomes an FA next summer. The future first in 2010 helps them solidify quite a run at that years FA class.

WHY SAC DOES IT: Amare provides instant recognition at PF, while Dragic provides an uncomplicated backup solution with little drama at PG, plus exceptional long-range shooting. Re-signing BJAX for little to nothing would help spell Rubio's transition, and provide ample tutoring on the job. While more money is inherited longer, bench fodder in the form of KT is jettisoned to add an actual star all at the age 27. Say what you want about the injury history, the mobility and physical intangibles here would make this line an instant force with the toughness of Nocioni, and hopefully allow Hawes the ability to add toughness he so lacks.

POTENTIAL LINEUP:
C- Hawes
PF- Stoudamire
SF- Nocioni
PG- Rubio
SG- Martin
-----------
6- Garcia, SF/SG
7- Dragic, PG
8- Green, SF
9- Diogu, PF
10- DRAFT PICK #23
11- DRAFT PICK #31
12- FA BACKUP CENTER (Etan Thomas?)

BOTTOM LINE:
Team takes leaps ahead and has a tough time avoiding comparisons to '98/'99 lineup based on key additions. The depth is lacking, but with a core 5 established for a longer haul, adding role players seems more feasible.

Thoughts?

 

[bigbadred00]

Would we re-sign Amare for atleast a decently long term contract. I wouldn't trade all that for a 1 year rental. Secondly would we have enough up front defensively. 3rdly will Rubio make Amare, Amare? Meaning Amare looks sick with Nash, but I don't think he's that effective without a great, dominant PG. If he isn't we could be stuck with an overrated player ala Marion without Nash that Toronto has now and that Miami removed earlier this season.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ok look -- if that's SHCs idea, he stole it from me as it is almost exactly what I have been proposing for Amare/Bosh for months now.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31230&highlight=Amare

And the title of your thread is highly deceptive -- this is not trading Thompson to get rid of Beno and Thomas (which would be silly), this is trading Thompson to get Amare. BIG difference.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Brick- yeah, I know: it's a good point. I wanted to change the title but couldn't after I submitted. VF or others- feel free to change as appropriate to add "Amare" in there. And Brick- this was my idea, just stole SHC's idea of "pursuing Amare". Great minds, no?

I am very, very interested to see what happens on GP's trip this week. Not that he gives much away, but the comparisons of Rubio to Nash- albeit likely premature and mostly unfounded- make the deal interesting to me. I for one like Amare, and think he has the ability to make a big impact.....when healthy. The pluses for us are he's already played in a "score first" offense, and adds a physical snarl Hawes cannot, and one that JT doesn't have just yet (I think he will eventually, but it's in development as of now).

Long term, the rental obstacle is concerning. But let's not overlook the FRANCHISE prognosis either. As much of a need as there is to jettison errant funds and contracts, they need to attract the fan base back to any arena they play in. This could do that.

 

[kingsnation]

Trading a young starting PF and a possible top 5 pick next year is waaaay to much to give up for Amare.

 

[Hella916]

Soooo... Trade Thompson,Beno,thomas and a future first round pick for Amare???? I dont think so... I would never pull off that trade... I like the idea of trading Beno, and Thomas just not thompson and our future first pick ...

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Soooo... Trade Thompson,Beno,thomas and a future first round pick for Amare???? I dont think so... I would never pull off that trade... I like the idea of trading Beno, and Thomas just not thompson and our future first pick ...

It was speculation on my part that they would want the pick and or Thompson. Would that even be necessary? The contract uncertainty could work to our favor in that regard....

 

[bajaden]

I'm not a big Amare fan. I'm not sure how good he would be without Nash. Now Bosh I would be interested in.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

I'm not a big Amare fan. I'm not sure how good he would be without Nash. Now Bosh I would be interested in.

Thomas/Thompson/Udrih for Bosh/Ukic?

I like that deal too....but they would almost certainly want the pick too, no?

 

[sidney]

If the 1st is heavily protected (lottery 2010, top 10 2011, top 3 2012), it's not too much IMO and is precisely the type of package Phoenix was looking for at the deadline (expiring, young talent, draft pick). Difference is this summer Amare can sign his extension so you lock him up and don't risk giving up assets for a short term rental.

Problem with Amare here in Phoenix too is that he is again an offensive oriented big who is a poor defender. He needs to be paired up with an active defensive big to have success. Here would be my first plan if I was going to try and get him:

Pick Rubio (Rubio/Amare pick and roll would be fun to watch)
get Washington's pick and get Thabeet to anchor the defense we won't get with Amare
Trade JT and assets for Amare

so

PG Rubio
SG Martin
SF Nocioni
PF Amare / Hawes
C Thabeet / Hawes

That team has defense, outside shooting, inside scoring, shotblocking, ball movement, toughness. Not bad

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I wouldn't do it, but that has more to do with my not liking Stoudemire than any attachment to Thompson.

 

[Bricklayer]

Trading a young starting PF and a possible top 5 pick next year is waaaay to much to give up for Amare.

That pick isn't going to be Top 5 if we get Amare. In fact if we get Amare and draft well it might not even be in the lottery.

I have suggested this package in the past because it is giving up next to nothing for a player of Amare's talent. Now unfortunately I do not really believe in Amare as franchise guy and think his ego is writing checks he has thus far failed to cash, but he's a Top 20 player, and maybe Top 10. After the LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard, Paul quintet there is nobody notably better.

 

[Bricklayer]

PG Rubio
SG Martin
SF Nocioni
PF Amare / Hawes
C Thabeet / Hawes

That team has defense, outside shooting, inside scoring, shotblocking, ball movement, toughness. Not bad

That would be my plan as well. With one note. Well, two. Depending on what it too to gt the WSH pick Cisco would be a key 2/3 reserve there. Or, if we had to burn him, I go back to my Hedo idea at which point that is looking like a playoff team to me. Unless of course we had to burn our capspace to get the WSH pick.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

hmmm, that just brought another more likely interesting scenario into my head.

What if we land the #2 pick and draft Rubio and then Thabeet starts to slip .. we somehow grab a #5,6,7 pick and grab Thabeet.

It would probly be easier to get this combination than a Amare/Rubio or a Griffin/Rubio.

Then were looking at :

Rubio
Martin
Nocioni
Thompson/Hawes
Thabeet/Hawes

This is obviously quite similar to what sidney/brick posted but with us just keeping Thompson instead of Amare. Im not saying its a better lineup without Amare in it, but it looks like a plan that would be a lot easier to execute, with a longer lasting appeal.

Also, assuming we keep these players Im not sure who we have left to trade in order to move up and take Thabeet.. would teams be interested in Greene and a later pick?

Honestly, out of the players slated to go in the top 5, two of them fill needs for us. Those two are Thabeet and Rubio. Im one of Griffins biggest supporters, but he doesnt fill a NEED for us .... I still take him #1, but I wouldnt be dissapointed all that much if we 'got forced' into taking Rubio with the #2.

 

[allrightythen]

If we ended with Rubio and Thabeet out of this draft I would be thrilled. The only hesitation I'd have with the Amare deal is does he stick around? If we sneak into the playoffs then I could see it happening. If by some stroke of Genius we could do all that while maintaining enough cap space to sign someone like Hedo this summer I would think I was dreaming. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic but that seems too good to be true.

 

[kupman]

Ok look -- if that's SHCs idea, he stole it from me as it is almost exactly what I have been proposing for Amare/Bosh for months now.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31230&highlight=Amare

And the title of your thread is highly deceptive -- this is not trading Thompson to get rid of Beno and Thomas (which would be silly), this is trading Thompson to get Amare. BIG difference.

This begs the question, who would people rather have Amare or Bosh (poll anyone)? I clearly favor Bosh, but would also do this deal for Amare.

 

[sidney]

This begs the question, who would people rather have Amare or Bosh (poll anyone)? I clearly favor Bosh, but would also do this deal for Amare.

Probably Bosh, but here's the deal:

Toronto knows they have an asset here and are offering Bosh a max extension to him this summer. The ball will be in Bosh's court. If he does not take it, the front office will assume he is not committing to them and try and trade him. My bet is he stays there.

Phoenix is different. Amare is saying he wants to sign a max extension this summer with the Suns. Kerr is not committing to that and has danced around it like he will extend him but not at the max. That's our opening. If we come in tell Amare that we'll pay the max in a sign and trade, he's going to kick and scream until he gets out of Phoenix so that he can get that max deal. The Suns will trade him before he can walk and before they get nothing for him.

So Bosh is probably as a whole the better asset, but Amare will be easier to get.

Amare is not really a franchise guy, but after the nightmare of paying max money to a combined SAR, KT, and Moore at the PF spot and without another plan to bring in an all star to our small market, I'm not too worried about paying a 27yo all star PF 3-4M too much each year for the next 5 years.

 

[DocHolliday]

I'm not a big Amare fan. I'm not sure how good he would be without Nash. Now Bosh I would be interested in.

I see what you are saying, but if Amare had a PG that could still get him the ball like.....Rubio I think he'd be ok. He doesn't need nash, he needs a PG that can get him the ball. If we know anything about Rubio, we know he can distribute the ball well and has very good court vision.

 

[Gary]

IF we draft Rubio he's going to be 18 (19 when he starts to play). He's not going to be a quality PG until he's at least 21-22. So nabbing Amare might not be the best option right now.

 

[CruzDude]

Firstly, most threads want to trade/give-up too much for Amare.

Second, how much of his performance-upside is because of Nash? A bunch I bet. In past 3 years: his reb numbers are down each year, his min are up and his blks are down by half. Also his ast/TO ratio is a negative number.

Third, I'm not sure Bosh is a lot better than JT/Hawes especially in 1-2 years.

Udrih is here for several more years and can be an excellent backup. I like him and with some new coaching could very well be a 10-10-5 type PG (pt-ast-reb).

You don't "ditch" Thomas, a 6-7 or 6-8 center making $8.5M next year!!! No one has wanted him and his salary for 2 years now and with the economic situation in the tank, no one is going to. So we have to learn to live with that fact. Period.

 

[hrdboild]

If we're keeping Kevin, I'm not sure I would go after Amare. His primary strength is scoring. He's not a very good rebounder or defensive player and he doesn't do a lot on offense when he doesn't have the ball. And then there's the knee issues which seem to be fine right now, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think it's going to come up again later on in his career.

I suppose if we can get two picks out of this draft as well and snag Thabeet and Rubio than the Amare situation becomes more intriguing. Rubio can get Amare the ball almost as well as Nash can, I have no doubt about that. And Thabeet, if he works hard, can provide enough rebounding and shotblocking to cover up for Amare's weaknesses. I would gladly trade a future draft pick to put that lineup on the floor and see what happens. Even in that scenario, though, I would worry about the potential conflict of Kevin and Amare both needing enough touches to maintain their 20ppg scoring totals.

 

[Kings Faithful]

If we're keeping Kevin, I'm not sure I would go after Amare. His primary strength is scoring. He's not a very good rebounder or defensive player and he doesn't do a lot on offense when he doesn't have the ball. And then there's the knee issues which seem to be fine right now, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think it's going to come up again later on in his career.

I suppose if we can get two picks out of this draft as well and snag Thabeet and Rubio than the Amare situation becomes more intriguing. Rubio can get Amare the ball almost as well as Nash can, I have no doubt about that. And Thabeet, if he works hard, can provide enough rebounding and shotblocking to cover up for Amare's weaknesses. I would gladly trade a future draft pick to put that lineup on the floor and see what happens. Even in that scenario, though, I would worry about the potential conflict of Kevin and Amare both needing enough touches to maintain their 20ppg scoring totals.

I doubt that Martin would have a problem with it... and even if he did I believe they could both keep 20 ppg fairly easily, especially with a PG like Rubio.

 

[sidney]

I would worry about the potential conflict of Kevin and Amare both needing enough touches to maintain their 20ppg scoring totals.

I agree with Kings Faithful here. Rubio is more like a 15PPG/10AST guy. Thabeet will be scoring 2 ways - put backs and ally oops from Rubio similar to Chandler. He'll be a 10PPG guy at most. Say Nocioni is a 15PPG guy. Amare and Kevin both have room to get 20 - 25 each with the rest coming from the bench.

A guy like Rubio needs great scorers around him for it to work. Amare and Martin would be great offensive weapons for him.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Firstly, most threads want to trade/give-up too much for Amare.

Second, how much of his performance-upside is because of Nash? A bunch I bet. In past 3 years: his reb numbers are down each year, his min are up and his blks are down by half. Also his ast/TO ratio is a negative number.

Third, I'm not sure Bosh is a lot better than JT/Hawes especially in 1-2 years.

Udrih is here for several more years and can be an excellent backup. I like him and with some new coaching could very well be a 10-10-5 type PG (pt-ast-reb).

Firstly, Bosh is ALOT better than Hawes and JT and it will most likely stay that way in 2 years. Second, Beno will never be a 10-10-5 player...at his best maby a 15-7-3 but thats if he reaches full potential, and I don't think that is going to happen. He could be a good back-up but we haven't tried him at back-up on a consistent basis and, for all we know, could be John Salmons v2...

 

[BawLa]

Interesting idea. The two potential outcomes after next year with respect to Amare are as follows:

1. Amare stays. If we re-sign Amare then trading JT + filler for him would have been worth it...for the most part. I still do not like the idea of a Hawes/Amare tandem because they would score a ton of points but would likely get scored on more. However, if we found a way to grab Thabeet then I like this idea. The problem is depending on both re-signing Amare AND trading up for Thabeet.

2. Amare goes. Well then essentially we traded JT and in 1 year cleared a ton of money. We would be able to throw extra cash at a star to lure him here and likely have enough left over to take care of in-house business. But bleeding talent to clear cap-space is the opposite of what we should be doing considering that not many stars will want to play in SAC no matter how much money we throw at them.

If we are trading Thompson we should be getting some other form of young talent IMO.

Overall I'd still rather grab Griffin with the #1 pick (assuming we get it), trade Martin for the #2 pick to grab either Rubio/Wall, and then trade Thompson + whatever for a #5-7 pick to grab Thabeet. But I suppose even more things have to go right for that to happen.

 

[Aenadin]

you dont stop a good thing thats just it.. if we trade thompson whos already playing well alongside hawes we just did another START OVER in rebuilding our front court

Thompson and hawes have been playing good together in my opinion and i wouldnt give him up for amare JT has the size plus there are two things that concern me

1. his contract he might just bolt when it doesnt work
2. HIS KNEES!! are we collecting players with bad knees?


if people want amare that bad.. draft griffin at least he is younger

 

[LPKingsFan]

Third, I'm not sure Bosh is a lot better than JT/Hawes especially in 1-2 years.

Last time I checked Bosh just turned 25, and averaged 22 and 10 this year. JT and Hawes looked good in flashes this year, but 22 and 10 is no sure thing, and Bosh could be getting better still.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Until no long term coach is picked by the Kings and no specific system is established yet, I would strongly suggest we close our gates for this kind of big trades.

Sometimes trading players of the same positions(i.e. PF) would truly be dependent on who the coach is and what the system your team will play.

So I say, hold your horses for now!

 

[fnordius]

I'd be too worried that Amare would become the new SAR.

 

[Aenadin]

its just a big effin NO! on that trade NO NO NO!!


the knees plus the eyes?

just what we need

a one eyed glass kneed powerforward...

i heard of lacking court vision but thats just ridiculous