Would you rather have Favors or Cousins?
- Thread starter rainmaker
- Start date
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I would like you to name all the lightning quick centers in the league. Gasol? Now theres an athletic specimen. What great hops he has. How about Bogut? Now there's a Dwight Howard look alike. Lets go with Haywood, Okur, Krstic, Mohammed, Hibbert and last but not least, Kaman, with his 6'11" wingspan and 23" vertical. Hows he doing in the league so far. Even Bynum is hardly a track star. Cousins is a good athlete and a very skilled one at that, and he's stronger than just about everyone I've mentioned here. Some scouts regard him as a more skilled version of Perkins. Personally I think he has a lot more upside than Perkins did coming out of college.
I love the list you propose as examples. You name all the great centers that played in the NBA. Of course you left out Wilt and a couple of others, but you list them as though their the one's he would have to play against. The truth is that in todays NBA, there are very few centers that even come close to those you listed. And that includes Howard, who is just one knee injury away from being mediocre. Simply because he's not developing his skill level and gets by on pure athleticism. Yeah, I know some are going to argue that one. But you tell me. How do you think Kaman would do going head to head with Shaq in his prime. Or Wilt Chamberlin in his prime.
The only problem with Cousins is his temperment. And I think thats something you have to consider. But his talent is unquestionable. I just hope that if we end up 6th, enough people question his temperment, and he drops to us. I'd hire him his own personal shrink, if I had to.
beb0p
Starter
There was no stopping the Rubio love last year. If Lebron James was in last year's draft there'd still be a debate on Rubio vs James.
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Gary
All-Star
I don't think many will be quicker than he is. Cousins is no slouch by any stretch..
And I think we had this argument 2 years ago when I was wanting another big who was a monster rebounder in college. I will say what I said back then.. Rebounding is a skill, and either you got it or you don't.. Kevin Love has it, and Cousins has it. I don't think there will be any problems with Cousins being an NBA rebounder.
roasthawg
Starter
I agree... Cousins will be a big time rebounder in the NBA.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
FakeInjury
Bench
Cousins is as quick as it gets, i can't imagine a quicker 6'11 270lb. other than dwight howard. If cousins is there, we pick him, I'm not sure whos stock will rise or fall, specifically Evan Turners, because he had a back problem and he has the most room to fall because of his current projection. But the real question should be if BOTH cousins and Turner are on the board, which do we take?
I'll worry about that when we get the 2nd pick.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
That's tough, but I'd have to go with Cousins. Our backcourt as it is is serviceable at worst with Reke/Beno/Cisco manning the guard position (we will have to pick up another PG in the summer though as when Cisco and Reke were both hurt, Beno was flying solo back there). Turner is a straight up basketball player but at this point we need to address our biggest concern (no pun intended) and get the rebounding, paint dam that we've been lacking. I'd feel much better with a lineup of
(Cousins or Hawes [not sure if we'd start him right from the get-go])/ The other one/JT
Landry/JT/Brockman/maybe May just to fill up space.
Donte/Omri/Cisco/Some guy off the the stands/ a dead guy/.../Noce
Beno/Cisco
Reke/Beno/Cisco/ 3rd PG
than a line up with Turner in it. Turner is going to be a pretty good player but he solves none of our current major issues.
FakeInjury
Bench
Turner would 100% solve the issue of SG. We have a glut of 3's as everyone loves to point out, and a couple 4s, and Hawes. We draft turner and we KNOW FOR SURE, we have our 1 and 2. We draft Cousins, and well, he is more of a gamble. I think this draft will be the craziest in terms of movement of draft position and trades on draft day.
Gary
All-Star
When I think of Turner I think a lot about Gordon of the Clippers.. People left and right thought Gordon would drop because he was an undersized SG with only a little bit of PG skills.
Turner on the other hand is a SG sized SG who has much better PG type skills than Gordon, and is a decent shooter (I see him being able to hit a bunch of 3s down the road). I cannot see Turner dropping below 4th pick.
The top 4 will probably be Wall, Turner, Favors, and Cousins. I cannot see any other player taking a top 4 spot.
Chupacabra
Starter
Why on earth would you choose a guard or wing player in the draft if youre the Kings? Im seeing WAYYYY too many people talk about drafting Evan Turner (guard) when its one of the deepest bigmen drafts in some time. Guess what the Kings biggest need has been all year long. A big man that blocks shots and rebounds. So why in the hell is everyone yapping on about drafting EVAN TURNER. Common sense people. Its been said for decades that the classic combination for success is a high caliber backcourt player and a high caliber low post player. 1 + 1 = 2. its really not that difficult. And no that bigmans name isnt Cole Aldrich.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Everyone has the Geoff Petrie Flu. Symptoms may include incessant desire for swingmen despite lack of obvious need for one at the time.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Let me start by saying that my desire is to somehow land Cousins. If not Cousins, then Favors. The Kings need front court help and either one of those two would certainly go toward solving that problem.
Ok, now thats out of the way. Turner is the best player in college basketball. He's a rare combination of talent and athleticism. He's a terrific ballhandler. He creates and passes the ball like a point guard. He rebounds the ball like a PF. He can get to the basket anytime he wants, and can pull up with a deadly midrange jumpshot. He's a very willing, and good defender. And he does all these things and makes it look easy. He's one of the most fluid athlete's that I've ever seen. There are times where it all just looks effortless. Yes, he did turn the ball over more than I would have liked. But when you consider he handled the ball 80% of the time for Ohio St. it doesn't seem that bad. His only real weakness is his three point shooting, and that will improve. He has very good form on his shot.
I think he'll be a star in the league. Of the four players in the top four, there are only two that I would bet my house on being stars. Thats Turner and Wall. I think Cousins and Favors will also be stars. But I wouldn't bet my house on it. So if I had to choose between Turner and Cousins, that would be a real tough choice for me. Cousins is a greater need. But Turner could add up to more wins in the long term. Turner is capable of doing so many things well, that he's very hard to pass up.
All things being equal, my brain says the Kings need Cousins more. But my gut tells me to take Turner. And my gut is right more than my brain. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if Turner is the first pick in the draft.
ParniValjak
All-Star
I would take Favors!
Now Cousins might well be the better player but there is just something about him that doesn't sit right with me. He just has that Zach Randolph feel about him. He is going to be a good player but he might be one of those players whose talent is great but his distraction to a team is greater.
I still like Favors as a prospect. He is already a very good defender. He has great size and athleticism. He has an all-star potential. Overall, he might even be a better fit next to Tyreke than Cousins. I just get bad vibes about Cousins.
Now Cousins might well be the better player but there is just something about him that doesn't sit right with me. He just has that Zach Randolph feel about him. He is going to be a good player but he might be one of those players whose talent is great but his distraction to a team is greater.
I still like Favors as a prospect. He is already a very good defender. He has great size and athleticism. He has an all-star potential. Overall, he might even be a better fit next to Tyreke than Cousins. I just get bad vibes about Cousins.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
I'd take Turner over Cousins or Favors because while we need a big man, Cousins or Favors have much more bust potential than Turner does. Turner is too sure of a talent to pass up for Favors/Cousins, they're good big man prospects but they still have aspects about them that can lead to major disappointment. I don't think I can say the same about Turner.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Dennis Hopson, Ohio State SG 86-87: 29.0pts (.518 .419 .814) 8.2reb 3.6ast 2.2stl 0.6blk 2.8TO
Jim Jackson, Ohio State SG 91-92: 22.4pts (.493 .407 .811) 6.8reb 4.0ast 1.7stl 0.3blk 3.4TO
Evan Turner, Ohio State SG 09-10: 20.4pts (.519 .364 .758) 9.2reb 6.0ast 1.7stl 0.9blk 4.4TO
Lessona? 1) NEVER trust an Ohio State shooting guard to be a sure thing; 2) but they always end up as Kings in the end.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Dennis Hopson, Ohio State SG 86-87: 29.0pts (.518 .419 .814) 8.2reb 3.6ast 2.2stl 0.6blk 2.8TO
Jim Jackson, Ohio State SG 91-92: 22.4pts (.493 .407 .811) 6.8reb 4.0ast 1.7stl 0.3blk 3.4TO
Evan Turner, Ohio State SG 09-10: 20.4pts (.519 .364 .758) 9.2reb 6.0ast 1.7stl 0.9blk 4.4TO
Lessona? 1) NEVER trust an Ohio State shooting guard to be a sure thing; 2) but they always end up as Kings in the end.
I get your point, and I could make a similar one about Duke. But my opinion of Turner has nothing to do with his stats, although they are good ones. My opinion has everything to do with watching him play for the last couple of years. I'm a big fan of Ekpe Udoh's, and his offensive stats aren't anything to write home about. But if you watch him play, you know he's capable of more. And while Jackson and Hopson were both similar in size to Turner, and both as you pointed out, played for Ohio St. They both were entirely different kinds of players. Neither were the primary ballhandlers for their teams, and both had a scorers mentality. Turner seems to score as an afterthought, or because his team needs him to score.
I still think he will be a star in the NBA. However, if I'm wrong, I will gracefully allow you to say I told you so.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I've seen him play an awful lot of games and there are times when he amazes me how easily he dribbles through traffic. He's not a razzle dazzle type of player. He doesn't do more than whats required to get the job done. But on occasion, I've seen him do some moves with the ball that were at another level. I saw a play where he dribbled behind his back and then through the defenders legs while spinning to the basket for a reverse layup.
No offense to Paul Pierce, but I think Turner is a much better ballhandler. But as always, its just my opinion..
ElRey
Starter
I've admittedly never seen Turner play, so I can't make a judgement about how good he is going to be. But the consensus draft seems to be
1. Wall
2. Turner
3. Favors
4. Cousins
With Spencer Hawes and his bum knees manning the middle, the Kings' biggest need by far is at center. If the Kings get pick 3 or below, then they need to draft Cousins if available IMO. If the Kings get within the top 2 picks, then they need either draft Turner (if he's as good as people are saying) or trade down to draft Cousins.
hammystyle
Starter
If you think Cousins, Favors and Turner are equal prospects than no, its not difficult, you take the big man. But I think Turner is going to be a much better player than the other two. I think his floor is top 20 player in the league and his upside is top 5-10. His game is so diverse and fluid that he'll be a star no matter where he ends up and no matter who he plays with. That said, there might not be guard or wing in basketball better suited to share the backcourt with Tyreke. Two lengthy 6'6"-7" guards with outstanding ball handling skills, post/mid range games, and driving ability? Every single game will be a matchup nightmare for opposing coaches.
Chupacabra
Starter
Every game will be a nightmare for the Kings as well because we'll still have one of the worst front court rotations in the league. Draft a guy that addresses a decade long hole for christ sakes.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Even if you are overlooking a superstar talent?! Are you kidding me?!
You pick the best player available and then you sort it out via trades or free agency. In draft you get as much of best talent as you possibly can. You are not going to overlook Carmelo, Wade, Bosh etc for a Milicic, unless of course you are Joe Dumars.
You go for the need if the players are equal in talent and potential but if the Turner is more talented and has a greater potential than Cousins or Favors, you pick him EVERY time!
See Michael Jordan/Sam Bowie
For a more recent example:
See Kevin Durant/Greg Oden
Those poor Blazer fans, bombing out on top picks.
Uncia03
Starter
Between Favors and Cousins, it's an easy choice for me and I'm going with Cousins. He's going to be an absolute load in the paint and a fantastic rebounder.
He's not hyper-athletic, but for a man of his size he's a good athlete. He's also not an elite defender, but he should be a good man-defender and he's got a better chance of intimidating people in the paint than any of the players we have now.
I've mentioned it a couple of times, but if there isn't a chance to pick up an elite talent in free-agency (and I don't mean David Lee, Boozer, Gay), then I'd rather save our money and go after Perkins in 2011. With that said, I think that Cousins has a chance to be a rich-man's Perkins, and I would jump up and down with utter joy if we landed him in the draft.
Now if we are lucky in the draft lottery and end up with the #1 pick I'd choose Evan Turner. He's going to be an elite player, and he's the absolute perfect fit next to Tyreke.
We're going to have capspace, so we can try and pick up a defensive big man via Free-Agency or trade. I'd rather have two super-star wings and a very good 1-dimensional defensive big, rather than a super-star wing along-side a good 2-way big.
With Turner on board, we would just need a very solid defensive big who would not be needed to carry any sort of scoring load. Those kind of bigs will still cost you 10 million today, but could be cheaper after the new CBA.
So I believe Turner will be an elite talent and the perfect fit next to Tyreke. And my thinking is that if you have the chance to draft a potential star who will also mesh perfectly with your own superstar, you'd be crazy to pass that up. You then have all that capspace to bring in a Bosh or work something to acquire a high-level defending big-man.
Can you imagine the Maloofs spending money to pick up another 1st rounder and we pick up a defensive big (Whiteside, Alabi, Udoh) while also taking Evan Turner in the draft, and convincing Bosh to come to play with us? Ah, it's so much fun to dream about how things could come together in a perfect world.
I just hope that we can gut it out and lose our last four games, and then get lucky in the draft lottery. Once we know our draft positioning things will really heat up.
He's not hyper-athletic, but for a man of his size he's a good athlete. He's also not an elite defender, but he should be a good man-defender and he's got a better chance of intimidating people in the paint than any of the players we have now.
I've mentioned it a couple of times, but if there isn't a chance to pick up an elite talent in free-agency (and I don't mean David Lee, Boozer, Gay), then I'd rather save our money and go after Perkins in 2011. With that said, I think that Cousins has a chance to be a rich-man's Perkins, and I would jump up and down with utter joy if we landed him in the draft.
Now if we are lucky in the draft lottery and end up with the #1 pick I'd choose Evan Turner. He's going to be an elite player, and he's the absolute perfect fit next to Tyreke.
We're going to have capspace, so we can try and pick up a defensive big man via Free-Agency or trade. I'd rather have two super-star wings and a very good 1-dimensional defensive big, rather than a super-star wing along-side a good 2-way big.
With Turner on board, we would just need a very solid defensive big who would not be needed to carry any sort of scoring load. Those kind of bigs will still cost you 10 million today, but could be cheaper after the new CBA.
So I believe Turner will be an elite talent and the perfect fit next to Tyreke. And my thinking is that if you have the chance to draft a potential star who will also mesh perfectly with your own superstar, you'd be crazy to pass that up. You then have all that capspace to bring in a Bosh or work something to acquire a high-level defending big-man.
Can you imagine the Maloofs spending money to pick up another 1st rounder and we pick up a defensive big (Whiteside, Alabi, Udoh) while also taking Evan Turner in the draft, and convincing Bosh to come to play with us? Ah, it's so much fun to dream about how things could come together in a perfect world.
I just hope that we can gut it out and lose our last four games, and then get lucky in the draft lottery. Once we know our draft positioning things will really heat up.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Not a bad analogy, and hopefully not an accurate one for Cousins sake. In the case of Durant/Oden, I think you could make a case that Durant would have been the better pick even if Oden had remained healthy. The same would probably be true with Jordan/Bowie. Considering that most consider Jordan the best player of all time. One must admit though that Bowie never had a fair shot because of injuries. The jury is still out with Oden.
I'll be honest. I didn't think that Durant would be this good. I like to think that I'm a pretty good judge of talent. But I was dead wrong about him. All I had to go on was one year at Texas. I thought he was a big time scorer, but a volume shooter, aka Allen Iverson. I've never been fond of those types of players. He didn't impress me with his defense and the other parts of his game. But I forgot one important commodity. His desire to be great.
I learned a lesson with Durant. And it goes back to the old saying. Don't judge a book by its cover. Because its whats inside that matters. And thats the hard part. So all you can do is judge what you see. And if you see a no brainer, which I consider Turner to be, then its easy. But when you look at Cousins or Favors, you can see the talent, the potential. What should be. But your taking a leap of faith when you pull the trigger on drafting them.
I felt pretty confident that Evans was going to be a very good player. Obviously Petrie did to. But in my wildest dreams, I didn't think he would be this good this fast. Somehow I doubt Petrie did either. Whether we should choose Turner over Cousins is probably a question we won't have to answer. But if for some reason we do have to answer that question, well, thats one hell of a nice problem to have.
Kingsfan98
Prospect
Have you seen Turner play? The guy is IMO the best player available in the draft. The draft is not the place to get big men if you want to win now. Big men take many years to develop. Unless there is the obvious Dwight Howard, but even he took 3 or 4 years to become a consistent big. Trading for a big is the best way to pick one up. Don't get me wrong though, I would absolutely love it if we drafted Cousins.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Couldn't agree more. If Turner some how, some way, is on the board when we pick, you pick him and don't look back. IMO, Turner is the best player in this draft, and Wall is second. Turner looks like he will be every bit of a perenial allstar.
We need a big. If Cousins or Favors are there, and Turner is gone, we pick one of them and still call it an excellent draft. But there is no logical explanation for passing on Turner, unless going for Wall, who doesn't fit as well next to Tyreke.
A Tyreke/Turner backcourt is something I would be drooling over. It's also a backcourt that would attract a lot of attention from quality FA bigs in the future.
