Why trade for pennies on the dollar?

[rhythmless]

i was typing a response, and when i went to post, it was closed, mightily quick, i might add. anyways, i typed a lot more than i usually do, so i thought id just throw it in a thread:

this is in response to everyone that says, why not trade arteest for pennies on the dollar, than risk getting nothing, there is an important economic factor here.

supermarkets have groceries go bad ALL THE TIME. they expire, and then supermarkets must dump them for nothing. so should they start selling food that is ripe for 20 cents instead of a dollar? NO. it makes more sense to dump the food. this goes for arco arena tickets as well. if seats are not sold by gametime, do they give them out for a few bucks? NO. they take the hit. can someone tell me why?

its because you need to keep a certain price structure for your supermarket. if you always sell off food that gets old, people will just start waiting till there is that food, and they will buy low. same for arena tickets: if you knew that 10 minutes before tipoff, you could hit the box office and pick up some tickets for a few dollars, would you now forgo the more expensive tickets?

geoff plays hardball. once he blinks, people will all know he blinked on the artest trade. then what happens? next time theres a standstill, they will expect him to blink. he will receive nothing until the end, because people will know that he does this. is this absolute? no, but it is a factor in terms of playing this game as a GM. if he stands here, and says, i am not helping you if you are giving me this kinda crap, the next time, a gm will remember that artest went into free agency instead of to denver, and denver lost out.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I don't agree with you. I think we should have took the JR/Najera and a 1st deal.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Geoff has lost it.

 

[BawLa]

Denver's first round draft pick might be better than expected. They are sitting at the 8th seed in the west at 33-20. There is a chance they don't even make the playoffs. Especially if Ron went there and disrupted their chemistry or clashed with AI/Melo, then we are talking a mid-first round draft pick. Those are exactly the type of gambles I think we should be taking.

Seems like one hell of a missed opportunity to me.

 

[VF21]

Keep in mind we don't KNOW what was really offered. People are assuming every rumor they hear is true and that's just silly.

 

[Heuge]

Keep in mind we don't KNOW what was really offered. People are assuming every rumor they hear is true and that's just silly.

Geoff does not need an apologist. Ron Artest is presumably still here. He goofed up...again.

 

[TR_9]

Whats the point of playing hardball? Yeah I like him trying to get the best deal, but theres a point in which is starts to hurt the team.

If Artest leaves next year which he most likely will, Geoff will look like an idiot.

 

[kupman]

Keep in mind we don't KNOW what was really offered. People are assuming every rumor they hear is true and that's just silly.

Thank you.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Geoff is sliping ...

And has been for a while.

 

[midtowner]

Supermarkets Discount Meat

FYI. Just before beef goes bad, you can get it for half off at the supermarket. Great deal if you are barbequeing that day. Depends on where you stand on the whole risk reward analysis.

Ron Artest is the best player mentioned in any trade involving the Kings. It is way to early to conclude that we will get nothing for him if he opts out of his contract this summer. The team doesn't have much of a chance at getting a better lottery pick at this point. Might as well just enjoy the hustle and strong play that Artest brings on a nightly basis.

 

[nbrans]

Petrie got a great return for Bibby by holding out and being patient. He's got good judgment, and on that one he was proven correct based on what we would have gotten had he panicked at the last deadline or over the summer. It's going to be a sticky situation come summertime, but I'm just going to appreciate that we did SOMETHING at the deadline, and this is all still a work in progress. I've given Petrie a hard time in the past year, but the Bibby deal restored some faith.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

FYI. Just before beef goes bad, you can get it for half off at the supermarket. Great deal if you are barbequeing that day. Depends on where you stand on the whole risk reward analysis.

Ron Artest is the best player mentioned in any trade involving the Kings. It is way to early to conclude that we will get nothing for him if he opts out of his contract this summer. The team doesn't have much of a chance at getting a better lottery pick at this point. Might as well just enjoy the hustle and strong play that Artest brings on a nightly basis.

yea.. but how nice would it be to have TWO first round picks..

 

[Heuge]

Petrie got a great return for Bibby holding out and being patient.

If that is a great return, I dont even want to dream about what a crappy return is.

 

[fnordius]

This was a very sad day in the history of our front office.

 

[VF21]

Geoff does not need an apologist. Ron Artest is presumably still here. He goofed up...again.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but you're assuming you know everything that went down. And I don't think it's a valid assumption.

I'm not gonna argue about it, though, because there's every likelihood the truth will never be publicly known.

 

[nbrans]

If that is a great return, I dont even want to dream about what a crappy return is.

Kenny Thomas.

 

[Heuge]

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but you're assuming you know everything that went down. And I don't think it's a valid assumption.

I'm not gonna argue about it, though, because there's every likelihood the truth will never be publicly known.

What the trade offers were are irrelevant. The fact is Artest is still here, and there is nothing good about that as far as the future of our organization is concern. But at least we will win a few more games this year...if he doesnt go loco.

 

[rhythmless]

FYI. Just before beef goes bad, you can get it for half off at the supermarket. Great deal if you are barbequeing that day. Depends on where you stand on the whole risk reward analysis.

yeah, ralphs does a lot of manager specials, but i really didnt wanna make it a post about groceries.

in a prisoners dilemma game like we have just seen, geoff lost a short term game with finite ending. however, in the long term, he has given additional information to players (gms). in that regard, we do not know if this has helped or hindered.

 

[Heuge]

Kenny Thomas.

I said I didnt want to dream about that...

 

[Dime Dropper]

What the trade offers were are irrelevant. The fact is Artest is still here, and there is nothing good about that as far as the future of our organization is concern. But at least we will win a few more games this year...if he doesnt go loco.

I fail to see how this is a good thing since there is absolutely zero chance of making the POs (thank God).

 

[Jerichoholic]

I'm sure we will revisit this topic in the offseason when Denver doesn't make the playoffs and then win the draft lottery with what should have been our pick. That would not be exactly pennies on the dollar.

Even without that over-dramatization though, expiring contracts and a 1st round pick are not pennies, that is about right for him now, unfortunately. And while we weren't in the "war room" I think it is pretty well documented that the only holdup here was Kleiza.

 

[beb0p]

I agree with rhythmless. This "Let's hurry up and unload a good player for pennies" is exactly the kind of thinking that got Memphis to sent LA Pau Gasol. A mistake of a trade if ever there is one.

That Denver pick is 20+ by the time we finish the season (you actually think the Nuggets is going to miss the PO with Artest? Come'on now. They're going to be damn good and jump ahead of other teams). Who do you get with the 20+ pick: another career journeyman/bench player that's who. So we basically trade Artest for three scrubs. Yeah, nice deal.

Or we hold on to him for now and see what happens. Who knows, we may land a top pick and draft a franchise PF, at which point we bring back Artest for the championship run. We could use Artest (if he doesn't opt out) as a piece to get somebody good. We may even trade Garcia/Salmons and need Artest back for the SF spot. The point is, we keep Artest, we still have options.

As oppose to rushing into a bad trade. Getting two scrubs and a low 1st round pick for Artest is a bad trade however you slice it. I get it, that some of you are thinking: a bad trade is better than no trade at all. But why dive into a bad trade instead of waiting for a better one down the line?

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't agree with you. I think we should have took the JR/Najera and a 1st deal.

QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kingsfan101]

I'm sure we will revisit this topic in the offseason when Denver doesn't make the playoffs and then win the draft lottery with what should have been our pick. That would not be exactly pennies on the dollar.

Even without that over-dramatization though, expiring contracts and a 1st round pick are not pennies, that is about right for him now, unfortunately. And while we weren't in the "war room" I think it is pretty well documented that the only holdup here was Kleiza.

Ah, but there's your classic catch-22. If we had traded Artest, they would have won the Western conference and we would have been looking at the 28th-29th pick

While I can appreciate both sides of the arguments, I am more in agreement with the original post of this thread. If Petrie blinked now, he might have gotten lowballed for every future trade he tried to make.

I am all for moving Artest. However, I don't agree with all the hate he receives. He has had more than his fair share of troubles (in fact he has had more than lot of peoples' share of troubles put together). However, lately, he has been playing great, playing hard, and playing with a lot of passion and heart. Isn't that what all the fans demand all the time.

Denver knew that he shall help them a lot in the short run. They aren't playing for the long term, and need to win now. Despite that they tried to stare us down. The loss is theirs as much as ours. While it doesn't do us much good now, hopefully, we shall be able to S&T him over the summer.

On the last point, while something like this is always iffy (particularly for someone like Artest), the Western conference is not suddenly going down next year. Of the ten teams ahead of us, I don't really see any taking a big step back next year (some teams are flirting with old age, but still have enough talent to remain competitive). Apart from Portland, teams that miss out on the playoffs this year, or see an early exit, shall face pressure to add a major piece. Hopefully, we can help "them".

 

[hammystyle]

its because you need to keep a certain price structure for your supermarket. if you always sell off food that gets old, people will just start waiting till there is that food, and they will buy low. same for arena tickets: if you knew that 10 minutes before tipoff, you could hit the box office and pick up some tickets for a few dollars, would you now forgo the more expensive tickets?

geoff plays hardball. once he blinks, people will all know he blinked on the artest trade. then what happens? next time theres a standstill, they will expect him to blink. he will receive nothing until the end, because people will know that he does this. is this absolute? no, but it is a factor in terms of playing this game as a GM. if he stands here, and says, i am not helping you if you are giving me this kinda crap, the next time, a gm will remember that artest went into free agency instead of to denver, and denver lost out.

'

This analogy is a huge reach. Ron Artest is not rotting groceries or arena tickets.

Geoff has been an NBA Gm for 15-20 years. His reputation is only going to go up or down so much depending on the details of the trade. So I highly doubt the future marginal reputation bonus we get for playing hardball here is worth a first round pick.

That said, the Nuggets screwed up too. Kleiza is just not good enough on either side to cause this kind of hold up.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I agree with rhythmless. This "Let's hurry up and unload a good player for pennies" is exactly the kind of thinking that got Memphis to sent LA Pau Gasol. A mistake of a trade if ever there is one.

That Denver pick is 20+ by the time we finish the season (you actually think the Nuggets is going to miss the PO with Artest? Come'on now. They're going to be damn good and jump ahead of other teams). Who do you get with the 20+ pick: another career journeyman/bench player that's who. So we basically trade Artest for three scrubs. Yeah, nice deal.

Or we hold on to him for now and see what happens. Who knows, we may land a top pick and draft a franchise PF, at which point we bring back Artest for the championship run. We could use Artest (if he doesn't opt out) as a piece to get somebody good. We may even trade Garcia/Salmons and need Artest back for the SF spot. The point is, we keep Artest, we still have options.

As oppose to rushing into a bad trade. Getting two scrubs and a low 1st round pick for Artest is a bad trade however you slice it. I get it, that some of you are thinking: a bad trade is better than no trade at all. But why dive into a bad trade instead of waiting for a better one down the line?

Oh please, what makes you think Artest's trade value is going to get better? Is he going to play better? NO! Is he going to behave any better than he has recently? NO! It only has the possibility of getting worse. The idea of waiting for something better to come along is the same crap idea that ended the Bibby saga with a bunch of expirings and just an okay prospect.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Petrie got a great return for Bibby by holding out and being patient. He's got good judgment, and on that one he was proven correct based on what we would have gotten had he panicked at the last deadline or over the summer. It's going to be a sticky situation come summertime, but I'm just going to appreciate that we did SOMETHING at the deadline, and this is all still a work in progress. I've given Petrie a hard time in the past year, but the Bibby deal restored some faith.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[TR_9]

I think this will only hurt both teams. When the Nugs miss the playoffs or lose in the first round they will probably be wishing they traded for Artest. When Artest leaves or we give him a big contract we will be wishing we traded him.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I agree with rhythmless. This "Let's hurry up and unload a good player for pennies" is exactly the kind of thinking that got Memphis to sent LA Pau Gasol. A mistake of a trade if ever there is one.

That Denver pick is 20+ by the time we finish the season (you actually think the Nuggets is going to miss the PO with Artest? Come'on now. They're going to be damn good and jump ahead of other teams). Who do you get with the 20+ pick: another career journeyman/bench player that's who. So we basically trade Artest for three scrubs. Yeah, nice deal.

Or we hold on to him for now and see what happens. Who knows, we may land a top pick and draft a franchise PF, at which point we bring back Artest for the championship run. We could use Artest (if he doesn't opt out) as a piece to get somebody good. We may even trade Garcia/Salmons and need Artest back for the SF spot. The point is, we keep Artest, we still have options.

As oppose to rushing into a bad trade. Getting two scrubs and a low 1st round pick for Artest is a bad trade however you slice it. I get it, that some of you are thinking: a bad trade is better than no trade at all. But why dive into a bad trade instead of waiting for a better one down the line?

Gasol's trade value in terms of talent was much greater than they settled for, sure; that is a different case however because Memphis strictly wanted cap relief and inexpensive rebuilding chips (Critttenton and picks). However Artest's value is crap and not likely to get better.

 

[nbrans]

Are you being sarcastic?

Wait a second, you don't like the Bibby return and yet you're complaining about NOT settling for whatever Denver was offering (which, for the record, we don't even know for sure)? If that's the case your expectations are way too high.