Why trade for pennies on the dollar?

[Vlade4GM]

Wait a second, you don't like the Bibby return and yet you're complaining about NOT settling for whatever Denver was offering (which, for the record, we don't even know for sure)? If that's the case your expectations are way too high.

No, that's not what I meant exactly. As far as Bibby's value goes right now, I'd say it was a decent to solid return, but as far as Bibby's value goes a couple years ago when they should have begun shopping him then I'd say it's a pretty mediocre return.

 

[nbrans]

No, that's not what I meant exactly. As far as Bibby's value goes right now, I'd say it was a decent to solid return, but as far as Bibby's value goes a couple years ago when they should have begun shopping him then I'd say it's a pretty mediocre return.

Well, I don't think we'd know for sure what the offers were, but it sure seemed like stretching back to last season and beyond that it was basically only Cleveland offering crap and some rumor of the Lakers making an offer that was shot down by the Maloofs. I really don't think, given his contract and the way his play has declined since Webber was traded, that Bibby's value was ever particularly high. I'm frankly pretty surprised we got what we did. It was a really solid trade, and it restored some of my faith in Petrie.

From everything I've seen it looks like a case of patience paying off. We'll see if that happens with Artest -- I agree with you in the sense that I wouldn't bet on a great outcome this summer, but we'll see.

 

[beb0p]

Oh please, what makes you think Artest's trade value is going to get better? Is he going to play better? NO! Is he going to behave any better than he has recently? NO! It only has the possibility of getting worse. The idea of waiting for something better to come along is the same crap idea that ended the Bibby saga with a bunch of expirings and just an okay prospect.

Comon now. The Bibby trade, we were going to accept a bunch of scrubs! GP waited and got expirings and a good prospect. We got the better deal for Bibby by waiting.

Artest's trade value is LOW right now! Low because he can opt-out in four months! When a team knows he can stick around for at least a full year, the offer will be a little better. Yes, I know Artest can go loco anytime. But so does other teams. Artest on his best behavior doesn't increase his trade value one bit. He can be the next Mother Teressa and it won't erase other GMs' doubt that he's crazy. Bottom line, we can wait.

And lastly, is anyone willing to say that they're happy with a LOW first round pick for Artest!!! Let's look at what Denver offered: Najera is a scrub. JR Smith is a scrub. That low pick may turn into a useful bench player: another scrub. Some poster hyped the "expiring contracts" as if Artest has a mega year deal. The "expiring" part means nothing because Artest is expiring. So basically you want to trade a star for three scrubs. Webber for KT/Corliss/Skinner revisited anyone?

The worst thing to do in this situation is repeat Memphis's mistake of unloading a star for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Comon now. The Bibby trade, we were going to accept a bunch of scrubs! GP waited and got expirings and a good prospect. We got the better deal for Bibby by waiting.

Artest's trade value is LOW right now! Low because he can opt-out in four months! When a team knows he can stick around for at least a full year, the offer will be a little better.

And lastly, is anyone willing to say that they're happy with a LOW first round pick for Artest!!! Let's look at what Denver offered: Najera is a scrub. JR Smith is a scrub. That low pick may turn into a useful bench player: another scrub. Some poster hyped the "expiring contracts" as if Artest has a mega year deal. The "expiring" part means nothing because Artest is expiring. So basically you want to trade a star for three scrubs. Webber for KT/Corliss/Skinner revisited anyone?

The worst thing to do in this situation is repeat Memphis's mistake of unloading a star for pennies on the dollar.

His value is low because it's always low, teams have problem with his off court issues, character problems, and one-on-one play. If teams were so concerned about having him for a full year why was his value no better in the offseason?

Um, he's not a star! He's nothing like Gasol and the point of expirings is we don't take anything bad in return while getting rid of a problem and adding a first round pick in a draft with good depth in the first round.

Getting Bibby for expirings was not imperative because he expires next year, we don't need cap space this year. With Artest we need him gone for something and exprings with a late first is good enough.

 

[fnordius]

Comon now. The Bibby trade, we were going to accept a bunch of scrubs!

It seems to me that we were offered Haslem and some enders for Bibby last year, to pick one example. How did waiting a year change things? We got a different, less proven, short PF from the Leastern Conference, and some different enders. I don't see that as a huge improvement. I'm not sure that it's any improvement at all.

 

[nbrans]

It seems to me that we were offered Haslem and some enders for Bibby last year, to pick one example. How did waiting a year change things? We got a different, less proven, short PF from the Leastern Conference, and some different enders. I don't see that as a huge improvement. I'm not sure that it's any improvement at all.

Whoa, you would rather have Haslem? I'd take the expirings and a young PF making $2 million.

 

[hammystyle]

It seems to me that we were offered Haslem and some enders for Bibby last year, to pick one example. How did waiting a year change things? We got a different, less proven, short PF from the Leastern Conference, and some different enders. I don't see that as a huge improvement. I'm not sure that it's any improvement at all.

Shelden Williams is younger, cheaper, and has a better upside than Haslem. He's also not locked into a long-term deal like Haslem is. Haslem IMO would have been useless for us whereas Williams is at least an interesting gamble.

 

[SacTownKid]

When Ron walks out the door this summer it's going to hurt (or it will crush us if he is re-signed), but it's probably better to not trade him for anything less that what Petrie wanted. In the end I think Denver is the biggest loser they had a chance to land Artest for was still equated to pennies on the dollar anyway and by standing pat they relegated themselves to 7th/8th seed or maybe even late lotto team.

 

[TR_9]

His value is low because it's always low, teams have problem with his off court issues, character problems, and one-on-one play. If teams were so concerned about having him for a full year why was his value no better in the offseason?

Um, he's not a star! He's nothing like Gasol and the point of expirings is we don't take anything bad in return while getting rid of a problem and adding a first round pick in a draft with good depth in the first round.

Getting Bibby for expirings was not imperative because he expires next year, we don't need cap space this year. With Artest we need him gone for something and exprings with a late first is good enough.

Artest is a great player. Not many players can do what he can do. The Denver deal is crap for what he is worth.
I agree with beb0p, they probably didn't want to trade because he can opt out at the end of the season.

 

[Jerryaki]

Um, he's not a star!

bingo.

 

[Vlade4GM]

When Ron walks out the door this summer it's going to hurt (or it will crush us if he is re-signed), but it's probably better to not trade him for anything less that what Petrie wanted. In the end I think Denver is the biggest loser they had a chance to land Artest for was still equated to pennies on the dollar anyway and by standing pat they relegated themselves to 7th/8th seed or maybe even late lotto team.

An extra first round pick is better than no extra first round pick.

Who cares whether Denver made the wrong decision? Doesn't make me feel better at all.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Artest is a great player. Not many players can do what he can do. The Denver deal is crap for what he is worth.
I agree with beb0p, they probably didn't want to trade because he can opt out at the end of the season.

He's only worth what teams are willing to give up for him, so that's pretty much what he is worth.

 

[fnordius]

Shelden Williams is younger, cheaper, and has a better upside than Haslem. He's also not locked into a long-term deal like Haslem is. Haslem IMO would have been useless for us whereas Williams is at least an interesting gamble.

Williams has a better contract, but, for all we know right now, may never even make it as a benchwarmer. Haslem is nothing very special, but he has shown that he is worth a spot on an NBA roster, and could be traded without too much trouble. And, because we didn't do it, we spent an extra $14M or so on Bibby, so it's not like the wait really helped payroll.

 

[CruzDude]

Since none of us know what was offered to the Kings for RonRon or anyone else, should we not be "quality" fans and keep the bashing to ourselves? To call GP anything other than an excellent GM is based on ignorance rather than knowledge. Smart GM's don't do "pennies on the dollar" for the sake of trading. Any trade gets $7M-$8M back in bodies and picks. Letting RonRon play out the year and leave is $8M off the cap along with the $9M for the expirings in the Bibby trade.

Plus we have what should be a really good core now, hopefully including Shelden, if Salmons can be a tru warrior off the bench this year and earn his way to replace RonRon. Then Kings will have maybe $10M+ under the cap next year to get a major contributor.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Since none of us know what was offered to the Kings for RonRon or anyone else, should we not be "quality" fans and keep the bashing to ourselves? To call GP anything other than an excellent GM is based on ignorance rather than knowledge. Smart GM's don't do "pennies on the dollar" for the sake of trading. Any trade gets $7M-$8M back in bodies and picks. Letting RonRon play out the year and leave is $8M off the cap along with the $9M for the expirings in the Bibby trade.

Plus we have what should be a really good core now, hopefully including Shelden, if Salmons can be a tru warrior off the bench this year and earn his way to replace RonRon. Then Kings will have maybe $10M+ under the cap next year to get a major contributor.

You know what the difference is between the denver trade and letting Ron walk? A first round pick and some extra lins. This "pennies on the dollar" stuff is bogus, it only matters what Artest's value is and that his value is going to stay that way for as long as he's with us.

 

[beb0p]

You know what the difference is between the denver trade and letting Ron walk? A first round pick and some extra lins. This "pennies on the dollar" stuff is bogus, it only matters what Artest's value is and that his value is going to stay that way for as long as he's with us.

There are other ways we can get a low first round pick. It's possible we just buy one like the Blazers had done for the last few years.

Artest's value has already increased from last season. Not a single team came close to offering expiring + 1st round pick last year. Come summer, some disappointed team is going to look at Artest as the final piece.

The point is, who knows whats gonna happen. We could swing a deal for Elton Brand and pair him up with Artest, for example. The point is that we keep him, we have options. And if he leaves for nothing, that's only slightly worse than getting a low draft pick.

 

[Vlade4GM]

There are other ways we can get a low first round pick. It's possible we just buy one like the Blazers had done for the last few years.

Artest's value has already increased from last season. Not a single team came close to offering expiring + 1st round pick last year. Come summer, some disappointed team is going to look at Artest as the final piece.

The point is, who knows whats gonna happen. We could swing a deal for Elton Brand and pair him up with Artest, for example. The point is that we keep him, we have options. And if he leaves for nothing, that's only slightly worse than getting a low draft pick.

And what exactly is going to entice the clippers into giving up their franchise player?

 

[JJ22L]

And what exactly is going to entice the clippers into giving up their franchise player?

His point was hypothetical. (Insert name here) could also be paired with Artest. The fact of the matter is that market value is what dictates what a player is worth. Right now, all off court issues aside we DO have an incredibly good player for what we are paying him.

If Denver did end up with Artest, and we did end up with their first round, there is little to no doubt in my mind that it would NOT be a lottery pick. Now the question is, so what?

Big Ben was drafted late, Ginobili as well, even Martin and Peja werent lottery picks (correct me if I'm wrong).

The fact of the matter is that noone can say (besides the current Boston Celtics) that by adding ____, _____, and ____ your going to be a better team (the lakers with Payton and Malone that got destroyed by Detroit proved that). Not to mention that the NBA has proven that teams that win are usually ones where the whole is greater then the sum of the parts. And I believe that Petrie is going about this quite well. To be honest this is the most optimistic I have been about this Kings team since 2005.

The NBA is such a dynamic system that trading Artest could have gotten us a lower pick which could have made us consider someone we normally wouldn't have since all the "better" players were already chosen, and who knows that person could be the next Jordan.

My point is, noone knows, thats the beauty of this game. Should we or shouldn't we have traded Artest? Hell, I don't know.

Whenever I think about Ron Artest I think about the current housing crisis (i know kind of a stretch). Some houses are simply amazing, but their fair market value is so low that no-one wants to enter that economy. Does that mean that the house in and of itself isn't worth more? No. It simply means that the economy right now for that product is low. I'm not implying that Artests value will strengthen, and in NO way am I advocating an extension on his term. I am simply not opposed to keeping him a little longer to see what happens. He has proven that he can be a star-caliber player.

I haven't posted here in quite sometime, I mostly just read, so alot of my opinion spewed out in a small amount of verbage so excuse its organization or lack thereof.

 

[fnordius]

Then Kings will have maybe $10M+ under the cap next year to get a major contributor.

As someone pointed out in another thread, KMart's raise ate that $10M. We won't be under cap.

 

[Vlade4GM]

His point was hypothetical. (Insert name here) could also be paired with Artest.

LeBron James could hypothetically be paired with Artest. For your hypothetical to actually strengthen your argument it has to be within the realm of reality or you're just blowing smoke.

 

[beb0p]

LeBron James could hypothetically be paired with Artest. For your hypothetical to actually strengthen your argument it has to be within the realm of reality or you're just blowing smoke.

Elton Brand has an opt-out this summer. Marion is reportedly being shopped. Nene may come back healthy and better than ever. Antawn Jamison is a FA. Shelden Williams may live up to his potential. We may end up drafting a stud PF.

Bottom line is, if we land that superduper PF, keeping Artest make sense.

If not, we can still trade him.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Elton Brand has an opt-out this summer. Marion is reportedly being shopped. Nene may come back healthy and better than ever. Antawn Jamison is a FA. Shelden Williams may live up to his potential. We may end up drafting a stud PF.

Bottom line is, if we land that superduper PF, keeping Artest make sense.

If not, we can still trade him.

I'm sorry but a superduper PF falling out of the sky is not a real argument.

 

[beb0p]

I'm sorry but a superduper PF falling out of the sky is not a real argument.

Tell that to the Laker fans.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Tell that to the Laker fans.

Exception, not the rule. Still not a real argument.

 

[NewMonkey]

Really? You'd call the Bibby trade a great return for the Kings? I may be wrong, but I thought you were one of the folks saying Shelden Williams may never be very good. I actually think the guy could be pretty good, but the rest of the players involved are obvious filler.

You're also trying to convince me that Petrie couldn't have gotten a (so far) disappointing lottery pick, 2nd rounder and expiring contracts last year? I think he could have gotten that kind of return every day of the last two years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for the Bibby trade, but calling it a "great return" saying it's "restoring faith" is a really big stretch.

Petrie got a great return for Bibby by holding out and being patient. He's got good judgment, and on that one he was proven correct based on what we would have gotten had he panicked at the last deadline or over the summer. It's going to be a sticky situation come summertime, but I'm just going to appreciate that we did SOMETHING at the deadline, and this is all still a work in progress. I've given Petrie a hard time in the past year, but the Bibby deal restored some faith.

 

[fnordius]

Tell that to the Laker fans.

Dream on.

 

[nbrans]

Really? You'd call the Bibby trade a great return for the Kings? I may be wrong, but I thought you were one of the folks saying Shelden Williams may never be very good. I actually think the guy could be pretty good, but the rest of the players involved are obvious filler.

You're also trying to convince me that Petrie couldn't have gotten a (so far) disappointing lottery pick, 2nd rounder and expiring contracts last year? I think he could have gotten that kind of return every day of the last two years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for the Bibby trade, but calling it a "great return" saying it's "restoring faith" is a really big stretch.

I'm not thrilled about Shelden Williams as a player, but he at least fits the mold of a young player we can get a look at on the cheap. I've never seen any hint of a deal that would clear Bibby's salary that was rumored to be offered by any team in the last couple of years. We almost did a deal with Cleveland last year that was Drew Gooden and non-expiring crap. I'll take the expirings.

 

[Glenn]

Tell that to the Laker fans.

I think you need special connections to get a deal like that.

Of course it is an exception but for anyone to say it cannot happen is wrong. At least we have proof that PFs CAN fall from the sky.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think you need special connections to get a deal like that.

Of course it is an exception but for anyone to say it cannot happen is wrong. At least we have proof that PFs CAN fall from the sky.

Of course it can happen, a lot of things can happen, but betting on it to just fall into your lap is a stupid bet.

 

[beb0p]

Exception, not the rule. Still not a real argument.

Really?

Let's see. The Celtics (KG). The Blazers (Oden). The Cavs (Boozer). The Pistons (Wallace). The Hornets (West). The Suns (Amare). And last, but not least, the Kings (Webber).

But I guess you could be right. It's absolutely impossible that a good big man will ever find his way to Sacramento. Impossible. Given that we will be in the lottery for at least a couple of years and have good assets to trade, it's absolutely impossible that we land an all-star big man.

Well then, we move on to the other option for Artest. Trade him in the summer. What's wrong with that? Why do we absolutely have to trade him now for junk?