Who Should We Sign? (2023 Off-Season)

[iowamcnabb]

A lot of people are saying we need shot blocking but do we? The two teams destined to make the finals this year have zero above the rim protection, Bam/Jokic/Zeller/Love/Gordon/Jeff Green (AG and Green are the back up C's for Den) none of these "bigs" defend the rim. Bam imo is the best defender in the NBA by a wide margin but even he despite him insane athletic ability rarely goes above the rim and does all his work on the floor. GSW last season also had as their bigs Looney/Green/Bjell?/? (anyone I'm missing).

I notice a lot of these catch and dunk big's and "elite" rim protectors who don't have a two way game get smashed in the playoffs time after time. Claxton/Allen/Gobert/Jackson/Mitchell Robinson/Robert Williams are dead weight come playoffs but are impactful during the regular season.

I’d say the blueprint for winning a championship isn’t cut and dry. None of the analytic guys who think they have everything figured out had Denver and Miami (looking like) in the finals. We know it’s generally the best players and or someone on a crazy hot streak. Monte is taking notes im sure but he will carve his own path.

 

[Hoovtrain]

This would be a dream signing
https://aroyalpain.com/2023/05/25/sacramento-kings-land-star-free-agent/

 

[Capt. Factorial]

This would be a dream signing
https://aroyalpain.com/2023/05/25/sacramento-kings-land-star-free-agent/

A 32-year-old on a four-year decline who couldn't manage 1000 minutes last year due to injury is going to turn down a $40M player option because...? I don't see it. And if he does and comes knocking at our door asking for the $40M back, we aren't biting.

 

[dude12]

Middleton is supposed to turn it down so he can sign a longer term deal with the Bucks was the info I was reading so, no, don’t see this happening

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, the age isn't a big issue IMO but the injuries are.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Lol yes didn’t factor in the injuries. Just always been a big fan

 

[SacTownKid]

Lol yes didn’t factor in the injuries. Just always been a big fan

I think Middleton started to come back around obviously but he's not the most sturdy looking dude although not frail either but he's right at the age where players like him start breaking down if they're going to and they were already injury prone. If the Kings were where the Bucks are currently in terms of contender status I'd be all for it. But sign a player like Middleton to a major 4 year deal and he slips health wise? Congrats, you just put any ring potential out of reach unless you get lucky elsewhere.

 

[See_Hanks]

A 32-year-old on a four-year decline who couldn't manage 1000 minutes last year due to injury is going to turn down a $40M player option because...? I don't see it. And if he does and comes knocking at our door asking for the $40M back, we aren't biting.

To be fair he's not as injury prone as Fox. Fox had 51, 58, and 59 game seasons. Fox played in only 70% of our total games three years prior to this season on average (took into account for the 72 game season.) Middleton had 5 seasons in a row where he played at least 75%-95% of the games prior to this season. Can't really call him injury prone based on one year.

But I don't want him. I don't think we need another assist man on the starting lineup unless Fox turns into more of a scorer than distributor.

 

[upinsmoke]

Thybulle is a RFA what are some realistic ways we can acquire him?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

To be fair he's not as injury prone as Fox. Fox had 51, 58, and 59 game seasons. Fox played in only 70% of our total games three years prior to this season on average (took into account for the 72 game season.) Middleton had 5 seasons in a row where he played at least 75%-95% of the games prior to this season. Can't really call him injury prone based on one year.

But I don't want him. I don't think we need another assist man on the starting lineup unless Fox turns into more of a scorer than distributor.

Maybe Fox was shut down in some of those years and not unable to play?

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Thybulle is a RFA what are some realistic ways we can acquire him?

Pray. Pray hard. And pray often.

 

[Tetsujin]

Thybulle is a RFA what are some realistic ways we can acquire him?

We don’t. Guy’s older than De’Aaron Fox, is a streaky shooter at best, and didn’t really show himself to be an elite defender without having an Embiid behind him to play goalie when he gambles on plays.

if it’s a cheapo flier of a deal then sure I’d take him but to acquire him we’d need to make his contract expensive enough for the Blazers to bail on him and I absolutely am not willing to pay that much.
(Plus at this point I honestly might be higher on Kessler Edwards’s longterm potential than Thybulle’s as a younger, longer defender who also displayed more feel for offense in half a season with the Kings than Matisse has shown his entire career AND he’s under team control and cheap).

 

[upinsmoke]

Thybulle is 26 y/o hes literally entering his prime right now.

 

[Tetsujin]

Thybulle is 26 y/o hes literally entering his prime right now.

Then shouldn't the fact that he's entering his prime and still in the "but he can still be a good rotation player someday once/if he figures things out!" stage of his career be a little concerning?

3-and-D wings are one of the most important positions in the league but Thybulle spent the first four years of his career getting fed nothing but open perimeter looks by Joel Embiid and came away shooting .334 from three in addition to shooting sub-.700 from the free throw line. At least he's a very good defender but getting to play next to Embiid and pre-injury Ben Simmons (and Jimmy Butler) also sorta helped cover up some of his flaws on that end as well as Ben Simmons would generally take on the toughest perimeter assignment while Thybulle would get to freelance and make some plays offball on that end.

Before he got traded to the Blazers, you could sorta write off/excuse most of his flaws as being amplified playing on a contending team but most of his flaws only got worse when he went to a Blazers team that gave him way more rope to hang himself with and it turns out that the reason he wound up being so far down the Sixers depth chart was just him plain not being very good.

Like I said, I'd still take him on the Kings but absolutely not at the price it'd take to get him.

 

[ESP47]

Then shouldn't the fact that he's entering his prime and still in the "but he can still be a good rotation someday once/if he figures things out!" stage of his career be a little concerning?

3-and-D wings are one of the most important positions in the league but Thybulle spent the first four years of his career getting fed nothing but open perimeter looks by Joel Embiid and came away shooting .334 from three in addition to shooting sub-.700 from the free throw line. At least he's a very good defender but getting to play next to Embiid and pre-injury Ben Simmons (and Jimmy Butler) also sorta helped cover up some of his flaws on that end as well as Ben Simmons would generally take on the toughest perimeter assignment while Thybulle would get to freelance and make some plays offball on that end.

Before he got traded to the Blazers, you could sorta write off/excuse most of his flaws as being amplified playing on a contending team but most of his flaws only got worse when he went to a Blazers team that gave him way more rope to hang himself with and it turns out that the reason he wound up being so far down the Sixers depth chart was just him plain not being very good.

Like I said, I'd still take him on the Kings but absolutely not at the price it'd take to get him.

His shot showed signs of life with the Blazers but it could just be the dreaded small sample size.

I'm still confident he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.

 

[Tetsujin]

His shot showed signs of life with the Blazers but it could just be the dreaded small sample size.

I'm still confident he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.

His perimeter numbers went up at least but he still shot like 62% from three (on less than one attempt per game so that number could probably swing one direction or the other).

Davion's perimeter game is still a huge point of contention but at least you can really tell that he's made an effort to improve his free throw stroke (80% from the line this season!). With Thybulle, while he's had some good shooting years, for the most part his free throw stroke has remained a struggle, which is probably the biggest warning sign for me.

 

[upinsmoke]

Regardless I still would take him on the team maybe a Barnes s&t or 24 for Portland not to match something in that ballpark because we need another wrinkle in our roster that can go play some damn defense.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yeah, I'm totally out on Thybulle at what his cost is going to be. 4 years in the league now, going to be 26 at the start of next season and outside of a 22 game sample where he shot well with a travesty of a POR team... he's been unplayable on offense. He's the poster-boy of a guy you sign to a 4/45 type deal and greatly regret it in year 2.

Now, if I could get him on a 2/10? Sure, i'll take that stab. But I'll invest in Kessler Edwards, who's younger, showed real flashes on both ends for us and will have a full off-season and training camp to actually learn our system. And he's more valuable positionally because he can flex to the 4 and not just the 1-3 Thybulle can do.

 

[SacTownKid]

Yeah, I'm totally out on Thybulle at what his cost is going to be. 4 years in the league now, going to be 26 at the start of next season and outside of a 22 game sample where he shot well with a travesty of a POR team... he's been unplayable on offense. He's the poster-boy of a guy you sign to a 4/45 type deal and greatly regret it in year 2.

Now, if I could get him on a 2/10? Sure, i'll take that stab. But I'll invest in Kessler Edwards, who's younger, showed real flashes on both ends for us and will have a full off-season and training camp to actually learn our system. And he's more valuable positionally because he can flex to the 4 and not just the 1-3 Thybulle can do.

That's the thing, did one half of a season or less really recharge his value more than that? I can't see a team paying a full MLE type of deal for him unless it's a short contract. Would love to have Thybulle on the Kings and there is no player capable of the defense he plays currently on the roster. Even Edwards. If Thybulle can keep shooting spot 3's at that clip he's well worth MLE range but one flash is all it might have been and then yeah, you regret it big time.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, I'm totally out on Thybulle at what his cost is going to be. 4 years in the league now, going to be 26 at the start of next season and outside of a 22 game sample where he shot well with a travesty of a POR team... he's been unplayable on offense. He's the poster-boy of a guy you sign to a 4/45 type deal and greatly regret it in year 2.

Now, if I could get him on a 2/10? Sure, i'll take that stab. But I'll invest in Kessler Edwards, who's younger, showed real flashes on both ends for us and will have a full off-season and training camp to actually learn our system. And he's more valuable positionally because he can flex to the 4 and not just the 1-3 Thybulle can do.

I went to 3 games post trade (WAS, SAC, SAC) which was about all the Blazers I could stomach this year. Thybulle looked good for maybe about a half of a game out of the 3. I know his first week in Portland he showed some offensive flash but it was not evident any of the times I was in the house. I don't see him giving us much more than the fringe players we are signing as defensive specialists at this point. I'd rather invest in Kessler Edwards than outbid Portland for Thybulle.

 

[The_Jamal]

That's the thing, did one half of a season or less really recharge his value more than that? I can't see a team paying a full MLE type of deal for him unless it's a short contract. Would love to have Thybulle on the Kings and there is no player capable of the defense he plays currently on the roster. Even Edwards. If Thybulle can keep shooting spot 3's at that clip he's well worth MLE range but one flash is all it might have been and then yeah, you regret it big time.

Yeah, the issue is Thybulle's sample of him being worthless on O is just so large at this point. The NBA has really evolved that if you aren't at least... KCP level offensively (10.8 PPG, 2.4 APG, 42% from 3) that you're just incapable of playing big NBA minutes. You just get way too far behind the proverbial offensive 8-ball and any good playoff team's offense will bury you and force that dud to take go make shots.

 

[upinsmoke]

I'm really hopeful you guys are right about K. Edwards, I actually hoped he and Ellis would have had a chance to step up to the plate against GS.

 

[hrdboild]

I understand questioning Matisse Thybulle's fit on offense but he's been in the league for 4 years and has made second team All-Defense in half of them. He's a lot more than just a pretty good defender -- he's been one of the top 5 wing defenders in the league since his rookie season. I don't think it's fair to judge him based on how he looked next to Shaedon Sharpe, Kevin Knox, and a bunch of G-Leaguers on a tanking Portland team for two months.

Kessler Edwards is 22 years old so there's hope he'll grow into something better but so far in his career he's been replacement level filler. We've had a lot of 22 year olds come through here and show similar athletic tools on their way to a career overseas. I don't understand the logic of passing on elite defenders because they aren't good enough on offense when we just had the #1 offense in the league and the #25 defense. Monte hired a head coach who has proven over the course of his career that he's quite capable of designing an effective defensive game plan -- shouldn't he also get him some players who can execute it?

 

[The_Jamal]

I understand questioning Matisse Thybulle's fit on offense but he's been in the league for 4 years and has made second team All-Defense in half of them. He's a lot more than just a pretty good defender -- he's been one of the top 5 wing defenders in the league since his rookie season. I don't think it's fair to judge him based on how he looked next to Shaedon Sharpe, Kevin Knox, and a bunch of G-Leaguers on a tanking Portland team for two months.

Kessler Edwards is 22 years old so there's hope he'll grow into something better but so far in his career he's been replacement level filler. We've had a lot of 22 year olds come through here and show similar athletic tools on their way to a career overseas. I don't understand the logic of passing on elite defenders because they aren't good enough on offense when we just had the #1 offense in the league and the #25 defense. Monte hired a head coach who has proven over the course of his career that he's quite capable of designing an effective defensive game plan -- shouldn't he also get him some players who can execute it?

I mean, it's just not fit on offense. It's "Is this dude capable of being an NBA offensive player" problem. And while he does have the two all-defense team selections, the team he did those for gave him up for one net 2nd round pick and Jalen McDaniels, who probably isn't going to resign. They dumped him.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

There is still place on my Herbert Jones + Cam Johnson + Naz Reid bandwagon.

G: Fox, Monk
G: Herbert, Huerter
F: Murray, Kessler
F: Johnson, Lyles
C: Sabonis, Reid

That is a heck of a roster... let's speak it into existence!

 

[NiNetNiNe]

if we can get Naz Reid and Sasha Vezenkov then I think we will have won the off season. I don't pay attention too much to money, so I would hope there is enough to go around.

Reid next to Sabonis would be a perfect pairing. Reid can do everything you want for a modern day big. Highly mobile, not elite athletically but will go up strong and throw it down, can shoot the three, defends well on the perimeter, blocks shots, and has shown passing ability. I believe he is also only 23 so he still has more room to grow as a player.

 

[upinsmoke]

if we can get Naz Reid and Sasha Vezenkov then I think we will have won the off season. I don't pay attention too much to money, so I would hope there is enough to go around.

Reid next to Sabonis would be a perfect pairing. Reid can do everything you want for a modern day big. Highly mobile, not elite athletically but will go up strong and throw it down, can shoot the three, defends well on the perimeter, blocks shots, and has shown passing ability. I believe he is also only 23 so he still has more room to grow as a player.

I dont see the need for Sasha when Lyles can do everything we hope Sasha does already.

 

[NiNetNiNe]

I dont see the need for Sasha when Lyles can do everything we hope Sasha does already.

I'm fine with either if we can get Naz Reid.

 

[SacTownKid]

I dont see the need for Sasha when Lyles can do everything we hope Sasha does already.

It depends on what the team needs I guess. Right now, I still think they need legit takeover ability and Lyles can do that maybe 1 out of every 10 games in the role he's in. We don't know what Sasha is going to be yet, but they are nothing alike as shooters. I think as more time has gone on the differences are clear. Lyles simply doesn't have that shooting Sasha appears to. Lyles is a classic 4/5 in a league where you probably want to be a 5/4 if you're a tweener. Lyles did look good at times as a 5 man offensively though. I don't think Sasha is going to play much 5 but easily has the ability to play the 3 for stretches if people think Keegan is a 3.

 

[iowamcnabb]

That doesn’t sound like a guy who plans to bring back Williams. I wonder if he would be willing to sign for the mid level?