twslam07
All-Star
What package would you offer for Herb Jones that would get them to bite?
Who Should We Sign? (2023 Off-Season)
- Thread starter twslam07
- Start date
I mean, Keegan played SF all last season. It was HB who was playing the small-ball 4 or "big wing" slot. He was basically exclusively guarding perimeter wings/guards all year long.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Why don't you think up some and the rest of us can decide if they are good offers or not?
He's literally the trade idea guy on the forum LOL.
Don't be petty. You're the one suggesting we should trade for Herb on a discussion forum. He's asking what you would trade to get him. That's not out of line
twslam07
All-Star
I just think it’s an unrealistic target but you seem very keen on acquiring him so I’m just curious what package you’d offer?
But to answer the question, I think Herb is a guy I'd be willing to flip Davion for. Balances both rosters, while addressing real team needs. NOP has 1000x wings, but have been forced to put CJ in a lead ball-handler role because they have very little upside at guard. Maybe Dyson Daniels takes a leap, but he's also probably more a 2/3 combo rather than a true lead ball-handler. Davion eases that burden on CJ offensively and still gives them an elite defensive player on the floor next to their cornerstones.
For the Kings, gives them a true elite wing defender that has actual minutes upside to play on the floor with Fox. The GSW series probably ends a lot different if we were able to keep Herb's defense on the floor in game 6 and 7 since we were going for more size and shooting.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Right, he is the trade idea guy, and that's why I'm asking him for suggestions.
It's not like we are talking about trading for a Top 10-20 player in the league or an All-Star here. So surely, he can come up with some reasonable package to offer the Pelicans for Herbert.Also, I'm not being petty. He continually asks me the same question, despite me admitting 4-5 times already that I don't know what it would take. I'm just putting the ball back in his court is all.
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Stan.Helsing
G-League
I've already answered this, no? I would like to keep Fox, Davion, Huerter, Murray and Sabonis... every other asset is fair game. Since you are the trade idea guy, take it as a challenge. Come up with a package that the Pelicans will accept. You may include anyone else on the roster and also include whatever picks you want from those that are available, especially if the FO is able to land Cam Johnson because the Nets do not match (i.e., without giving up assets there). Use the assumption that Herbert is the missing piece after keeping those I named above and getting Cam. A 2nd assumption is that it would be real nice to trade for Sims from the Knicks, so keep a couple of 2nds for that.
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twslam07
All-Star
The onus isn’t on me to make your fantasy a reality. I don’t think he’s a realistic trade target (nor do I think it’s realistic to tamper with him behind the scenes, get him to destroy his reputation as a good locker room guy, and force NOP to only trade him to SAC). Prove me wrong.
twslam07
All-Star
I’m just simply asking you to complete the thought.Right, he is the trade idea guy, and that's why I'm asking him for suggestions.
Also, I'm not being petty. He continually asks me the same question, despite me admitting that I don't know what it would take. I'm just putting the ball back in his court is all.
“We should go get Herb Jones and Cam Johnson!”
“Okay, how would we do that?”
“Woah, woah, woah why are you asking me???”
This conversation in a nut shell^
twslam07
All-Star
I mean I have Jones’ value well above Mitchell’s. He can legitimately guard 1-4 and will make a few all defensive teams when it’s all said and done. Mitchell is obviously a great PG defender but versatile wing defense is much more valuable in todays game. Let’s put it this way, would you rather have someone who can guard all of Curry, Lillard, J. Brown, Doncic, George, Tatum, LeBron, etc. or someone who can guard Curry & Lillard?
So if we’ve established the value gap then it means SAC has to add. NOP has a plethora of young players and picks. They should not be looking to make a quality for quantity type of trade. They’ll be looking to combine their young players & assets to bring in higher quality players. The Kings are not looking to make that type of trade as they’re trying to upgrade themselves. I just don’t think we’re very good trade partners at all considering what we’d want and what NOP would want.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Well, from my perspective, this is the conversation in a nutshell.
Me: “We should go get Herb Jones, Cam Johnson and Jericho Sims because the combination of them would fix specific issues this squad has.”
You: “What would you give for Herb that the Pelicans would accept?”
Me: "Well, I'm not the Pelicans FO, so I can't tell you what they would accept. Why don't you help me out?
You: “Nope, I want you to provide me with a specific answer of what you would pay for Herb.”
Me: "Well, I would like it to be something similar to what was given up for De'Anthony Melton or Jarred Vanderbilt, although it will definitely more than that. I'm also willing to overpay."
You: “Nope, I want you to provide me with a specific answer of what you would pay for Herb.”
Me: "I can tell you that I'm willing to offer up a package of anyone not named Fox, Sabonis, Murray, Huerter and Davion as well as any available picks. Whatever it takes, since I think he'll be the missing piece."
You: “Still nope. I want you to provide me with a specific answer of what you would pay for Herb.”
Me: "Okay, then I'm not exactly sure... but since you're the trade-idea guy, would you like to offer up some suggestions? We could have some good discussion about that. After all, we're just fans and whatever we discuss here is most likely not reaching the FO's ears."
You: "Nope, no fun allowed here. I just want to repeat the exact same one-line question to you, without once acknowledging that those are good suggestions that would fix most of the current issues with the team. So what would you pay for Herb?"
Me: "Okay, fine, be like that. Allow me to put your ball back in your court."
You're like the nope-guy and I'm like the glass-half-full guy.
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I do too, but I don't think it's this super wide chasm or anything. Herb is awesome, but I really don't see a Mikal Bridges type offensive jump from him. Same is true for Davion, who's been excellent since the all-star break and was truly great defensively in the playoffs. They're both elite defensive role players that have offensive limitations. Herb just plays the premium position. I also think you have a bit of a bias on Davion, since you've basically put his value at Royce O'Neale in a cap dump with Holmes. Meh. Davion+38 for Herb would be fair value in my eyes. Gives the extra value for Herb playing a more premium position.
Again, I'm not sure how they view Daniels, but he couldn't get on the floor for them this season. But they are WEAK at guard and CJ has really struggled to handle the lead ball-handler role for them. That's just not his natural slot.
Maybe it's not Herb, but I think at least one of those wings (Trey/Herb/Naji/Daniels) are for sale. Maybe they'd want to reroll in the draft with pick 24 on one of those guys.
Barnes defensively was guarding the 3's imo.....
I’ve been under the assumption that Monte will trade the pick (can we do that this year?) to bring in more of a win now wing rather than have a rookie. Pelicans seemingly have too many. A bunch of those guys make sense for us
twslam07
All-Star
Again, you’re asking me to do the work for you. I’m of the mindset that it’s not a realistic trade target. I even posted my rationale as to why in my response back to Jamal.
I simply asked you what is your proposal to land him (thinking maybe you actually had an offer that made sense for both sides). Instead, you’re immediately defensive and are rattled by the very thought of someone asking such a question. As Jamal already stated, it was more than reasonable to ask that question.
I could easily sit here and say we should go out and trade for Tatum (without giving any specifics). If a poster responded to me and asked me how would you do that, my initial reaction isn’t “oh this guy is such a glass half empty guy. I can’t believe he has the gall to ask me that type of question without even acknowledging that my suggestion of trading for Tatum actually improves the team! How dare he!” It seems like you’re looking for a reason to be a victim here when all that was asked of you was to provide the details of how we could make an offer to acquire the players you want.
twslam07
All-Star
Yeah we can trade our pick on draft night.
The Pelicans have a lot of picks too. I don’t know why they’d make a lateral trade like that (especially since Murphy, Jones, and Daniels are all worth much more than #24). They’re at the point where they need to make some consolidation trades for a more talented player. They are in a very good position to trade for the next star/superstar that wants out.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
If you are going to compare making a trade for Tatum (a Top 5 MVP candidate in the league) to me asking for Herbert... then darn right, I'm the victim here, lol.
twslam07
All-Star
I did make the comparison although I don’t think you understand what comparison that is exactly.
Stan.Helsing
G-League
Alright, whatever you say. I will let you have the last word, since you are being petty/anal/banal (take your pick, or all three). Toodles.
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Uhh no. Keegan surprisingly spent most of season defending the perimeter and even spent quite a bit more time than I would have expected getting switched onto like Mitchell, Morant type lead guards as well. Bball ref has him at SF 84%, PF 14% and SG 2% of the time which all seems about right. Coach really didn't trust him at the 4 during the regular season. Which probably was a mistake since Keegan 4/Lyles 5 was probably the reason we won game 6.
One of the questions I had about Keegan was if he could be a wing in the NBA and not just a big wing stuck at the 4. He spent a whole season as a productive starter on a good team doing just that.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Keegan even guarded some G's. The question is whether that was the right call or not, this was a bottom 4-5 defensive team after all. In Browns system the players around Fox/Domas are mostly just shooters anyway. If Keegan is a SF then in historical perspective Barnes was a G. Keegan didn't do two very common modern wing things if they are going to be stars, get to the line and create shots for themselves. We have to see where that goes and it's largely up to Brown likely.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Who is our version of Aaron Gordon? A guy whos previous team always seemed to have on the block. Big, athletic perfect role player to pair with a passing center like Jokic.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QdyxyHMWrOM
Might be worth to sign Naz just to stop him getting poster dunks vs us, jesus.
But to actually answer the question, I don't think there is one anymore with the trade inflation of the last few years. OG would probably be the guy that qualifies as that Aaron Gordon type, but you basically have to ship a good prospect and 2 FRP just to get the conversation going with TOR. Like... jesus. DEN got away with shipping Gary Harris's big contract, a prospect (at the time) in RJ Hampton and a first. That's not sniffing OG in a trade.
The Rudy Gobert deal should be the cautionary tale for selling your future for a non-offensive star. OG is awesome, but he's not any sort of offensive hub that you can rely on in the playoffs. He's one of the best defenders in basketball at a premium position, but he's basically HB/Keegan Murray 2.0 offensively.
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ockingsfan
Starter
Seeing that we have been linked to Atlanta's John Collins rumors for a while, I wouldn't be surprised if Monte tried to swing a deal for the enigmatic power forward.
Maybe a possible sign and trade where Harrison Barnes goes to Atlanta (around $72 mil/4 year deal) along with Richaun Holmes in exchange for John Collins and salary match (Jalen Johnson or Saddiq Bey??? maybe if we throw in a 2nd rounder???).
Atlanta gets a rock hard PF/SF vet in HB to team with Trae and D. Murray and the Kings take a swing at a forward with a higher ceiling than HB and we move Holmes contract. Could be one of those trades that winds up being a win-win for both teams
Maybe a possible sign and trade where Harrison Barnes goes to Atlanta (around $72 mil/4 year deal) along with Richaun Holmes in exchange for John Collins and salary match (Jalen Johnson or Saddiq Bey??? maybe if we throw in a 2nd rounder???).
Atlanta gets a rock hard PF/SF vet in HB to team with Trae and D. Murray and the Kings take a swing at a forward with a higher ceiling than HB and we move Holmes contract. Could be one of those trades that winds up being a win-win for both teams
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serbiangoat
Starter
Is Mitchell that big a upgrade over Alvarado to trade Herb Jones? Stats wise/age wise/game wise they are very similar and both were playing on playoff teams prior to Zion going down.
Ozymandias
All-Star
Would've been Jarred Vanderbilt. Obviously Jerami Grant could function like that here but that seems highly unlikely for a number of reasons.
Honestly it'll be an unpopular answer and also the money is probably far off and again highly unlikely but I'd bet Kelly Oubre would perform better than ppl expect, in some sort of lower volume capacity. He's also a guy whos very familiar with De'Aaron as they played together, his game tends to gets criticized a lot but he sure plays hard and on any given night he can have a big impact.
Damn, that was 10 years ago, time flies.
Our version of Aaron Gordon is gonna look like a guy who comes off the bench I think, a starter who shoots 56% from the field playing 30mpg like AG is a scarce commodity n will fetch big $$$ on the open market.
Really, thats the sell with Dillon Mitchell, in the draft, even though he had a dreadfully unproductive freshman season and his stock plummeted and its assumed he needs some years of polish.
I'd like to think that Keita Bates-Diop could give us a boost in SOME of those areas your looking for.
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Ozymandias
All-Star
I imagine the bidding on Naz Reid is gonna be well above what the Kings are looking for with Sabonis needing a raise next summer and Holmes still on the books.
But damn It'd be fun to see him in a Kings uniform, I'm sure of that. I believe he's built for these loud playoff arenas, he'd likely be a crowd favorite and the place would explode when he hit 3's. If we were to resign Lyles and get Vezenkov that'd sure be a boost to the teams overall 3pt shooting, and from the frontcourt. He's like 270lbs and very tough to move, long arms, if he could give us solid minutes vs the titans of the west to give Sabonis a rest he could be worth a lot.
he sure did Alex Len dirty there. the in and out dribble on Trey Lyles sheesh. clean highlights!
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