PurpleHaze
All-Star
For Kings finally having to leave Sacramento (assuming plug is about to be pulled)
Who is to blame?
- Thread starter PurpleHaze
- Start date
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
For the poll I would vote all of the above. I don't think you can blame anyone in particular. Two arena plans were tried and failed so you can't say an effort wasn't made. If there's blame to be assigned it lies with larger issues like the economy, the political climate, the mindset of the region, etc. and not with any individuals. personally, I'd put some of the blame on not focusing on rebuilding in Natomas because I think it would have been more feasible, but what's done (or not done) is done at this point so it really doesn't matter.
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PurpleHaze
All-Star
You know, I tried to make this a more than one selection option - thus ability to choose more than one or all of the choices if wished. Maybe moderator can adjust for that purpose - if not hope others will still chime in with vote/comment.
Blaming the city is some outsider bull****.
The city has given the Kings much love for many years. They have bailed out the team before, and I am not sure if that loan has been paid off even now. This city supports the team through years of muck and in a bad economic time the owners decide its arena or they're out. There's not much the city can do, and though some people may roll their eyes at it, putting money towards addressing the city's bigger problems like the sharp rise in the homeless IS a bigger concern than appeasing some Vegas rolling NBA owners.
You got to account for the bad blood of what happened vs the Lakers, the killing of the arena vote by the owners, the Maloofs lies and PR smokescreens ever since and no real apology for it, no real owning up to it. Despite the successful years, the Maloofs aren't well liked. I think Petrie is given the credit for the success, and the Maloofs are known for their mishandling of the coaches and their smokescreens to the public. This doesn't build faith within the community for a franchise the city has nursed for decades.
It doesn't help that many act like the Kings are the only thing Sacramento has. Not only is that insulting, its false and an outsider's perspective. It also a perspective that has been eating away at the cultural soul of the city, as transplants and sprawl have erased the city's identity with chain establishments and soulless mini-towns. And of course that sprawl craze was a part of the economic fart that stunk up the town.
So blaming the city's mindset? Pathetic.
The city has given the Kings much love for many years. They have bailed out the team before, and I am not sure if that loan has been paid off even now. This city supports the team through years of muck and in a bad economic time the owners decide its arena or they're out. There's not much the city can do, and though some people may roll their eyes at it, putting money towards addressing the city's bigger problems like the sharp rise in the homeless IS a bigger concern than appeasing some Vegas rolling NBA owners.
You got to account for the bad blood of what happened vs the Lakers, the killing of the arena vote by the owners, the Maloofs lies and PR smokescreens ever since and no real apology for it, no real owning up to it. Despite the successful years, the Maloofs aren't well liked. I think Petrie is given the credit for the success, and the Maloofs are known for their mishandling of the coaches and their smokescreens to the public. This doesn't build faith within the community for a franchise the city has nursed for decades.
It doesn't help that many act like the Kings are the only thing Sacramento has. Not only is that insulting, its false and an outsider's perspective. It also a perspective that has been eating away at the cultural soul of the city, as transplants and sprawl have erased the city's identity with chain establishments and soulless mini-towns. And of course that sprawl craze was a part of the economic fart that stunk up the town.
So blaming the city's mindset? Pathetic.
You will find that many disagree with you for distinctly valid reasons. Indeed the city has failed if the team leaves. This isn't like Rachel Phelps doing everything she can to move the Indians. The owner PRIOR to the Maloofs looked to build a new arena.
Mike0476
Starter
Actually it's not.
In terms of land, perhaps. But it was Gregg Lukenbill and his team that purchased the Kings and relocated them to Sacramento. The two arenas were built with private money only.
The loan was given to Jim Thomas and the Maloofs inherited that loan. The original loan was $70 million plus an extra $3.7 million that covers bond closing costs and bond insurance. It has been reported that the Kings still owe $67-69 million on the loan but have made every payment on time.
Lukenbill needed help building two arenas and got no public dollars to help. That's why the current ARCO Arena was built for $40 million instead of say $80 million, which could have prevented the mess we're in today.
Thomas got no help either as he tried to build a new arena. The Maloofs have waited for over 10 years. This isn't like the Maloofs came out of no where this past weekend and said it's a new arena now or we're out of here. They've been beyond patient.
We have thrown countless amount of dollars for decades towards issues like helping the homeless, welfare, schools, law enforcement, fire fighters, etc. Crime, poverty and hunger will never go away no matter how much money you throw at it. I am tired of seeing this as an excuse. The events at ARCO Arena help bring in revunue for our city for those issues.
What smoke screen are you talking about? They walked away from Q&R before a vote went out.
The Kings are a BIG part of our city's identity.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Well said!
Its the attitudes like those of swisshh that got us to this point and they are STILL pointing the fingers at anyone but the council! The have had years and well over a decade to get it done and have failed miserably and its always the same washed up excuses every single time yet in that time frame, not only have they sorted out the arena issue but all the issues that have a "higher priority" have not been addressed either.
If the Kings leave, I can guarantee you that the financial hit on Sacramento economy will be HUGE! Its already considered as a bit of a ****hole (rightly or wrongly) and if it loses its major drawing card, it will regress even further.
ArcoKings
Starter
I have to put some blame on the Maloofs (at least from 2006-forward) if the Kings end up leaving. The Maloofs wanted too much control of the design, signage, parking, tickets, etc. They even walked out on meeting(s) when they felt they wern't getting their way. I like the Maloof family a lot but they wanted to get greedy... on the tax payers expense. The 2006 arena vote should have been marketed way more towards a multi-use arena instead of a Kings arena. This area of the whole arena project should have been done better.
Presently, the Sacramento area got hit SUPER HARD economically due to the recession. People are going through some very hard times. The last thing they want is a publicly financed arena even if the team leaving damages the city and region financially and civically later.
Presently, the Sacramento area got hit SUPER HARD economically due to the recession. People are going through some very hard times. The last thing they want is a publicly financed arena even if the team leaving damages the city and region financially and civically later.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Where is all of the above when you need it.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Well said indeed. Thank you for calling out a poster like swisshh who just spews nonsense without knowing the facts. He's an example of the problem.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Recently ranked #10 on the most miserable cities to live in in the nation. This would bump it into the top 5 without a doubt.
est.1999
Starter
Holy f***!
ParniValjak
All-Star
Ouch!
I knew it was bad but I didn't think it was THAT bad! Wow!!!
And some people are still reluctant to pull their head out of their *** and see the big picture!
Trueblood
Bench
I put the majority of the blame on the city although I have to point out the situation back in '03 or '04 when the Maloofs stormed out of a meeting where they and the city were going to split the costs of a $350 million arena. The city was going to put up $200 million while the Maloofs would take care of the remaining $150 million. The Maloofs thought that was too much. Right about now, that deal looks like gold compared to how much is needed for an arena now in a broke city and state.
I definitely blame the city but those city rankings are total BS having traveled around the country earlier in my career. Sacramento has its problems but there are entire states that are far worse unless you are a land baron.
Of course at that time cities were financing 100% and handing over the keys to get a team. So keep it all in perspective. Sacramento managed to escape that era unscathed. They might be able to now work out some kind of 70-30 deal, at a discount of what it would have cost 3-5 years ago thanks to the horrid economy, if the team doesn't flee and if they can find a way to get that money.
To be honest I'd still be shocked right now if they go to Anaheim to be someone else's tenant who clearly has designs on possibly taking over the team. Unless the terms have changed significantly.
Krunker
Northernmost Kings Fan
Forbes article on 2/2/11 has Sac at #5 on the miserable index. It doesn't bode well that Stockton, Modesto, and Merced are also in the top 5.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/02/stockton-miami-cleveland-business-washington-miserable-cities.html
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
That says much more about the bafoons running the city than it does about the Maloofs.
Forbes clearly has some kind of agenda in that article putting half of California in there while ignoring several regions that have been in deep depression for decades as well as the deep south.
This not a time for blame, it's time for positive action. All those listed in your poll are going to assure that the Kings stay in Sacramento. I want the Maloofs on my side. I want the City Council, the County Board of Supervisors of Sacramento County, Placer County, Yolo County on my side. I want the voters, the wealthy, the politically strong getting behind the Kings staying, I want the Bee and all the regional papers in support of staying. All blame does is divide people, that's not what we need. We need to rally the community behind keeping the KIngs. If you don't think this is true then you're on the wrong side. We, Kings fans like me and you need friends that are interested in keeping the KIngs. If I have repeated myself then you've read this. That's good. Let's all work to keep the KIngs.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I have had a question whistling through the holes in my head for more than a decade and that is: why isn't the Board of Supervisors involved? As mentioned above, there are other counties that should be interested also although I know of no political entity that encompasses the several counties. As the Kings are in Sacramento County, er, why is this only the city's problem/opportunity? What is stopping them from building in, let's say, Roseville? The County has the right to tax or maybe not. There are school districts and ..... maybe this is beyond me.
I live in Carmichael literally across the street from Sacramento and I consider the Kings as much my team as my neighbors across the Mission Avenue divide. I, unlike the voters of Sacramento, see an arena as a positive. Look at what happened when Sunrise Mall was built in the middle of nowhere. There was growth around it and I believe that was the plan. I think people can see where I am going. The movie "Field of Dreams" comes to mind. "Build it and they will come."
There is also the distinct possibility that family incomes are higher outside the city limits and people elsewhere might be more willing to be taxed for this cause. At the least, it would spread the tax over a much larger population so the bite on any given family would be much smaller. Schools are paid for and not everyone uses them. It's not an unusual concept. The over all snag is that the people can't see a tangible benefit but when is the last time a national political convention thought of holding their Presidential extravaganza in Arco? Big arenas attract big things.
Maybe even free agents.
I live in Carmichael literally across the street from Sacramento and I consider the Kings as much my team as my neighbors across the Mission Avenue divide. I, unlike the voters of Sacramento, see an arena as a positive. Look at what happened when Sunrise Mall was built in the middle of nowhere. There was growth around it and I believe that was the plan. I think people can see where I am going. The movie "Field of Dreams" comes to mind. "Build it and they will come."
There is also the distinct possibility that family incomes are higher outside the city limits and people elsewhere might be more willing to be taxed for this cause. At the least, it would spread the tax over a much larger population so the bite on any given family would be much smaller. Schools are paid for and not everyone uses them. It's not an unusual concept. The over all snag is that the people can't see a tangible benefit but when is the last time a national political convention thought of holding their Presidential extravaganza in Arco? Big arenas attract big things.
Maybe even free agents.
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kennadog
Dog On It!
I second Mike0476's response. This statement in particular is a huge part of the problem and part of the prevasive provincial attitude in Sacramento. Am I a King's fan? Of course, The arena however is not only about the Kings. About three-quarters of the events at Arco are NOT Kings basketball. By the way, as quickly as you can, tell me at least five things that Sacramento has that you mention to someone wanting to visit Sacramento, that makes it a unique destination, that makes it a great place to vsit? I love Sacramento and have lived in and around Sacramento since 1967, but I have a realistic view of it.
Before the Kings came to Sacramento there were countless people I encounterd just in the US that didn't know where Sacramento was, nor did they have any remote image of what was in Sacramento. Especially since the Vlade/Webber team, business people say they can go to remote places around the world, mention they are from Sacramento and have people light up and say "Kings."
I remember one business woman, who said she always takes some Kings t-shirts with her. One Dutchmen asked for a shirt for his grandfather. His grandfather was a farmer in a remote rural area of The Netherlands and was a huge Kings fan. The city could have spent millions and never have gotten that kind familiarity around the world. Our own Bart here in this forum came to Sacramento this season to see his beloved Kings. He's not the only one. Sacramento has wonderful qualities, but the Kings have put Sacramento on the lips of countless people around the world. To ignore that fact is ignorant.
The Kings leave, Arco is a derelict piece of junk and there's no where else in Sacramento that can host those events.I want to take my granddaughter to events like ice shows and concerts. Many people enjoy MMA, boxing, PBR, motocross, Harlem Globetrotters, regional NCAA basketball tournaments, etc. and other types of events too numerous to name. Its just ignorant to assume that the Kings are the only reason to want an arena in Sacramento.
I was at one of the recent city council meetings, as well. The head of the Convention and Tourism board spoke about how many calls he receives wonderig if Sacramento is going to have a downtown arena, that they can use as an additional venue along with the convention center. Sacramento could attract a lot more conventions/tourism with a downtown arena. (They aren't interested in Arco or an arena at Natomas, because its too far away.) Of course, we could also use a few more first class hotels. (By the way, the city subsidized Hyatt Regency, Embassy Suites, and the Sheraton with public dollars. Where were the outraged citizens then?) Cities, counties, states subsidize private business everyday. Enormous amounts of subsidies. Where is all the protest about that?
And why don't Sacramentans see that the arena brings outside revenue into their city? Outside of the bay area, its the only venue in northern California that can host the kinds of events that Arco has. And people do come from all over to events at Arco.
I remember when I had to drive the bay area to see anything like that (rarely) and it was time-consuming, far more expensive and it's even worse now. I just won't be going to San Francisco for events any more, certainly not with grandchildren. On top of that, I've always hated the Warriors. I'd much rather support Sacramento with my dollars than go to the bay area and have the money I spend go to pay for their venues, their infrastructure, their businesses (restautants, hotels, parking, transit, etc.)
I guarantee this city will eventually want to build an arena. If we let the Kings go, we'll be losing an anchor tenant and the city will have to build it 100% on their own, with no Maloof money at all. Same as Kansas City finally did. They regognized too late that they shouldn't have let Sacramento take their team away from them. Their advice? Don't lose the Kings, like we did.
Finally, MSE and the NBA have donated so much money to causes in this city and have donated untold volunteer hours for good causes. People everywhere else have a high opinion of the Maloofs as owners. I really see no justification for the venom against them in this town. MSE has be been a great business and done much good for this city.
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Why did I post about not blaming the city(people) and people acted like I said don't blame the city councelmembers/politicians?
kennadog: The various uses of the arena are all good things. Unfortunately that has not been the message that has gotten out there. The message comes out as the Kings = arena, and the Kings are the only attraction in town, which turns off a lot of support that you should be trying to win over.
Instead of it being an arena for the whole city, like the recent announcement of still pursuing a downtown arena, it has become entwined with the Kings and the sentiment that they are bigger than anything. For the very reason the message is Save the Kings, the other benefits of the arena get overlooked.
kennadog: The various uses of the arena are all good things. Unfortunately that has not been the message that has gotten out there. The message comes out as the Kings = arena, and the Kings are the only attraction in town, which turns off a lot of support that you should be trying to win over.
Instead of it being an arena for the whole city, like the recent announcement of still pursuing a downtown arena, it has become entwined with the Kings and the sentiment that they are bigger than anything. For the very reason the message is Save the Kings, the other benefits of the arena get overlooked.
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bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think your a good example of why the Kings leave, if indeed they do leave. Your living in a fantasy world that doesn't really exist, and you want to blame everything and everybody but the people really responsible. Your last paragraph says it all. Your resent all the people that have moved here and changed the city from what you remember it to be, and still want it to be.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Not hard to believe. They rank cities on their amenities, affordable housing, crime rate etc. When you looking for things to do, other than the Kings or some other event that might be playing at ARCO or the convention center, what the hell is there. Don't get me wrong, I love the small town feel, but unfortunately just about everything I can find for intertainment in sacramento, I can find in Topeka Kansas.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
If my memory is correct, the Maloofs said that they were blindsided by that offer, and that during the negotiations, none of that was brought up. They stormed out because they thought the city wasn't negotiating in good faith. Of course your into a he said/she said situation. But if true, I don't blame the Maloofs for stroming out. One of the rules of announcing proposals in public, is that both sides know what the announcement is going to be.
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